Usually you play FEB like this (at least I do): Play Survival (1G), discard random creature (G), search Squee, discard Squee (G), search Akroma, discard (G) her for Shapeshifter. Wait a turn, get Squee back, play Shapeshifter (1UU), attack, discard Squee (G) for Phage, discard Phage (G).
So you have actually 10 mana. Getting Squee first, is most often the best option, even in FEB, imo.
Playing Palinchron as an additional "chuff" card, seems not the best option. Usually you have enough mana. I'd rather play Quirion Ranger which has synergies with Birds and is not a dead card else.
Good idea. I used to keep a list of these, but it got lost. Here's what I can think of.
Fireball: 1/21/0
Door to Nothingness: 1/15/0
Tooth and Nail: 1/9/2
Enduring Ideal: 1/7/~5
Saffi Survival: 1/9+1/3+1 (Saffi+Caller+Crypt Champion, +1 is Anger)
PandeBurst: 2/9/0
Panoptic Mirror+Time Warp: 2/10/0
Academy Slaver: 2/13/0
Hulk Sneak/Breach: 2/5/3
Powered Monolith: 3/5+/0
Hulk Footsteps/Necro: 3/3+/3
Palinchron: 3/12/0 (6 lands + Flare/Beat/Tide/whatever)
For the record,
Hulk Flash: 2/2/3
That's sort of like the ideal.
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
Gifts can do it on 3-4 lands pretty easily if you're playing at least 5 black rituals. This lets you use Dark Ritual to cast Gifts/power into the combo and brings your total mana cost somewhere in the 8-10 range, and that's including Gifts, which you'll likely be resolving on an end step, bringing your mana down to below that of Mizzium/Vault, Severance/Belcher, or Trix. The upside to Gifts is that the mana cost is usually split and can be turned around to protect your actual win if you have other ways to find your Reanimate/Buried Alive combo by finding 4 disruption spells. Usually when I build Gifts, it includes Gifts Ungiven and Lim-dul's Vault so I can always find my Gifts, although LDV is sometimes used to directly find one half of the combo saving Gifts for disruption spells or force fodder. In any event casting Gifts is going to allow you to win immediately for a reasonable amount of mana for a combo-control deck (on 3-6 lands) similar in fashion to Doomsday (albeit obviously slower).
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Spellweaver's Helix 2/5/2
Intuition or TfK or somehow get a Life from the Loam/any Dredge/Cabal Therapy in a pinch and a Time Stretch/Time Warp in the yard. Play Helix, imprinting the two. Play another copy of the dredge card every turn (every other card for Time Stretch, which makes it doable with Therapy).
Early one morning while making the round,
I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
I went right home and I went to bed,
I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.
I can recall some combos from the "turn 1-3 Combos in aggro decks" thread:
Mogg Maniac + Fire Covenant: 2/5/0
- Grave dependency: No
- Needleability: No
- Stiflability: Yes
- Forceability: Yes
- Wastelandability: No
- Swordsability: Yes
- Disenchantability: No
- Chaliceability: No (chalice@0/1 doesn't hurt)
The good thing about the combo is that both the cards are useful on their own. The bad thing is that you need more life than your opponent and that a single counterspell or stifle or creature removal ruins your day, lealing you with very little life points.
About Face + Tireless Tribe: 2*/2/0
*you need other 5 cards in hand to deal 21 dmg.
- Grave dependency: No
- Needleability: Yes
- Stiflability: Partly (you need 1 more card in hand for each stifle)
- Forceability: Yes
- Wastelandability: No
- Swordsability: Yes
- Disenchantability: No
- Chaliceability: Yes (chalice@1)
The combo doesn't work if the opponent blocks too.
Phyrexian Ghoul + Academy rector + another critter: 2*/7/2
- Grave dependency: Only Leyline of the Void
- Needleability: Yes
- Stiflability: Yes
- Forceability: Yes
- Wastelandability: No
- Swordsability: Yes
- Disenchantability: No
- Chaliceability: No
You need a 3rd creature fo the combo to work. Any creature without shroud is good, I'm going to take a 0cc critter to lessen the mana count.
Attack with Ghoul, Sac Rector for Pattern of Rebirth attached to the 3rd critter, sac 3rd critter to get Symbiotic Wurm, sac Wurm for 7 1/1's, sac 1/1s for lethal.
If the Ghoul is blocked the combo doesn't work.
It would be great if the first post could be constantly updated, so we can have a good list without going through the entire thread.
Last edited by GreenOne; 01-25-2008 at 01:03 PM.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.DeckOriginally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
Current Record: 1-83-2
You can have it cost 1 mana less using Loyal Retainers (you can look at the "I wll survive" deck in the CanG forum)
The tireless tribe+about face is 2/2/0. Strictly better.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.DeckOriginally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
Current Record: 1-83-2
Draco/Explosion 2/3/0
Hrmm, I can see a flash-esque type deck with this!
Control body:
4 FoW
4 Counterbalance
4 Counterspell
Draw/get draco on top:
4 SdT
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Portent
4 Lim-dul's Vault
Win conditions:
4 Eratic Explosion
2-3 Draco
2 Fireblast (extra 4 damage if need-be)
Land
2-3 Barbarian Ring (also for extra 4 damage)
Rest of the land!
I love it!
Also, with the Kiki-Jiki Kill, why not use Pestermite instead of Hussar. Pestermite seems so much easier to actually play if need-be.
Actually, no. With Retainers you have to hardcast all the pieces; with Champion you get to Survival away the rest and cast only the Champion, returning the Saffi and starting the loop, and then returning the Caller once you've looped to your satisfaction. Loyal Retainers can't do that.
Maniac+Covenant is 2/5/0, I think.
Draco Explosion needs at least 3 cards because it's not going to hop on top of your library by itself. However...
Insidious Dreams into Draco Explosion: 1*/7/2
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
PandeNought, the forgotten Dreadnought interaction.
Pandemonium-Dreadnought-Dreadnought: 3/6/0
(Pandemonium-Pandemonium-Dreadnought also works, but that's 3/9/0)
Izzet Guildmage/Reset/Burn: 3/5/0
More like 2.5 cards because 'burn' is replaceable with any instant speed cantrip or burn spell. The mana needs to be all in land form. Two to play Reset, three to copy it. Copy resolves, untap, repeat for infinite mana. Then, play either the cantrip or burn spell and copy as much as needed. If it's a cantrip, you need one burn spell in your deck which you will eventually draw, play, and copy.
I personally like this combo because even though it's three cards, the third card is interchangeable, and the pieces are good on their own. I built an interesting deck around this a while ago, and the main drawback of the combo is that you need five lands to go off, which can be hard to secure against a deck with Wastelands or Sinkholes. Izzet can also be hard to keep in play because it's such a fragile body.
Basalt Monolith/Mesmeric Orb: 2/5/7
An alternative to Breakfast. It costs more mana, but isn't vulnerable to creature hate (in the sense that the pieces can safely come out on different turns). It mills a single card at a time. I listed chaff as 7, for 3 Narcomoeba, Kiki/Guide/Hussar, and Dread Return, however, considering the opening post, it could be 6 if you use 'Goyf and Ghoul instead (which also recquires Dragon Breath). This combo is also colorless, and can come out through the use of Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors.
Sorry I couldn't resist it:
Hatred + Carnophage/Sarcomancy: 2/6/0
BB
Another take on the Doomsday Combo,
(1/8/6)
Doomsday Stack
1 Night’s Whisper
1 Soul Spike
1 Erratic Explosion
1 Draco
Note, Soul Spike requires you to have two black cards in hand. The combo isn't as fast as Second Sunrise, but it is more resilient. I can't wait until Wizards finally prints the card that makes Doomsday tops.
Grave dependency: No
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: No
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Maybe
Also, I just had to add this in
Tarmogoyf
(1/2/0)
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: No
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Maybe
Promoted to sticky. Great thread. I may purge the chaff later on.
Last edited by Bardo; 01-25-2008 at 05:42 PM.
I would like to add these two combos:
Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience: (2/6/0)
Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes (the Enchantment - Aura)
Chaliceability: Yes
Life Combos: (3/???/1)
Daru Spiritualis or Task Force etc. +
Nomads en-Kor or Shaman en-Kor or Shuko etc. +
Diamond Valley or Worthy Cause or Starlit Sanctum etc.
After gaining millions of life you need a win condition like Test of Endurance or something else.
Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: Maybe
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Yes
Last edited by SnakeEater; 01-25-2008 at 03:16 PM. Reason: corrected Swordsability: No -> Yes
For the targeting spell, you could use Lightning Greaves to make the combo un-Swords-able (after the Greaves equip).
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