Pattern/Rector: 1+1+1/4+X+Y/4
Pattern/Rector with Greater Gargadon: 2+1/5+X/4
You need: Either Pattern of Rebirth or Academy Rector, a reusable sacrifice outlet (Gargadon works great), and one other creature.
If you have Rector, sac it to get Pattern. Put it on the other creature, sac it. At this point you can kill in two ways:
1. Fetch Iridescent Drake returning Pattern, sac it, fetch Reveillark, sac it returning Drake returning Pattern, sac it, fetch Body Double copying Reveillark, sac it returning itself and Drake returning Pattern, sac the latter, fetch Mogg Fanatic (or whatever else), kill thy opponent. (If you can't figure out how, go read some Standard articles on Lark.)
2. Fetch Protean Hulk, sac it, fetch Body Double copying Hulk, sac it, fetch Reveillark and Mogg Fanatic, kill thy opponent.
Advantages: With Gargadon (or Carrion Feeder) the combo costs only 5 mana. You get to run up to 8 copies of Pattern/Rector (also Natural Order if using Hulk) and however many sac outlets you want (though only four Gargadons). Gargadon can't be countered or dealt with in basically any other common way besides discard. Both Gargadon and Rector are creatures, for tutoring purposes. Pattern/Rector/Order are versatile.
Disadvantages: Needs a creature to put Pattern on. Loses to instant speed removal. Loses to graveyard hate.
If you Natural Order for Hulk, a single use sacrifice outlet is sufficient if you also fetch Carrion Feeder. I'm too tired to figure out if this loses to removal. You can Order and sac Hulk without passing priority, so it doesn't do so immediately.
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
I don't think the creator of this thread is updating it, atleast I couldn't find Painter/Grindstone combo in the first post - maybe a mod could edit the new combos into the opening post?
"I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize!"
I thought I had Painter's Servant in there... oops, neglect on my part.
The numbers for Trix I thought I had fixed... apparently I aborted the edit. Originally, I confused total cost with minimum to be paid in one chunk.
***
About some of the other combos... an Infinity/Infinity creature without Trample doesn't win the game by itself - something like River Boa or Bitterblossom or in some cases Mother of Runes could hold it off until the cows come home. Admittedly those cards aren't widely played, but even against decks that can only chump block this might simply become a stall instead of a win.
I know I'm drawing an arbitrary line allowing an infinite amount of creatures but not a creature with infinite stats - after all, the first one can be thwarted as well.
I'm also limiting this to 2.5-card-combos (e.g. 2 specific cards and some easy requirements like a card of a certain type or colour in hand). Otherwise, it's unlikely to really be a compact combo.
It could be more compact with coretapper, magistrate's scepter and corpse danceOriginally Posted by torgar
what ever happened to Forbidden Oath??
that was the shit.
Oath of Druids + Forbidden Orchard = Darksteel colossus
Oath of Druids:
Legal in Vintage, Tempest Block
Banned in Legacy
ahh..
why is it banned?? its not THAT good. it still loses to countermagic no?
Tarmogoyf can also be countered. Now, for the same cost, look at the difference in powerlevel.
meh if that can get banned then so should counterbalance. same powerlevel i think. and that way SI is easier for me to go off with. :D
Counterbalance isn't remotely near of oath in power level terms...
You are comparing a card that need another artifact in play to be remotely efective and then it does nothing to the board state with an enchtantment that searches your library to your bigest and scariest creature and puts it directly into play without paying anything... I think its not the same...
A metagame with oath is a metagame without creatures, is that simply.
Then there's that land that shits creatures for the opponent as well as pheldagriff from invasion. Oath was easy to beat if they didn't play any mass removal with a rogue deck that could mass hard to counter creatures and/or recurr them easily. I saw that exploited severely in an oath dominated format, since they all went "anti-oath" mirror matches. Was amusing when people ditched the deck in 6 months.
The issue is, the format becomes really lame at the local level since everyone wants to play oath for dragons or angels.
Fons posted this as a potential new deck I thought it warranted extra discussion. The combo:
Skill Borrower & Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker (On top of Library) 2/3/(# of Kiki)
Set-up: Skill Borrower is in play without summoning sickness and is revealing a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker as the top card of the library.
Description of Combo: At the end of an opponent's turn, Skill Borrower taps to put a copy of a non-legendary creature (itself) in to play. Kiki-Jiki gives the new copy haste. Tap the copy of the token to generate another copy and repeat the process. Use this to generate infinite 1/3 Skill Borrower copies. Since these copies are sacrificed at the end of turn, one can swing for the win during your following turn.
Benefits: It require very little mana investment on the part of the Skill Borrower and setting up the top card of the library is rather easy (Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm, Lim-Dul's Vault). There are very few dead cards, only the number of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breakers.
Cons: Creature based combo in which Skill Borrower has to live through it's borrowed activated ability.
The combo requires more than three mana since you need to pay for the effect of putting Kiki on top as well. And since Brainstorm/Top can't RELIABLY find you a Kiki, I'd put it as either
2/4/# of Kiki
with a Worldly Tutor, or
1/6/# of Kiki
with a Congregation of Dawn (finding both Kiki and Borrower).
The nice thing is that the tutors can find you both pieces of the combo. The big problem of course is that it's based on a creature that has to live two turns, so you'd definitely need stuff like Mother of Runes, Sylvan Safekeeper or whatever in addition to your usual disruption. It's maybe comparable to Painter, which costs two mana more but needs to stay in play for only one turn.
georgjorgeGeistreich sind schon die anderen.
Cards needed to find combo don't count as part of the combo because they're not part of the combo.
Wouldn't they fall under chaff? Or am I completely misunderstanding the chaff concept? (a very viable option)
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
The Tutor/Congregation doesn't FIND you the combo piece, it enables the combo by putting Kiki on top. The difference is that with another combo, if you have both pieces in hand you don't need to pay any extra mana to search for one. But with this combo, you will ALWAYS have to pay for the tutors even if your hand is three Kiki and three Borrowers. In short, the combo is not Borrower + Kiki, it's Borrower + Tutor, just as Full English Breakfast is not a combo of Shapeshifter + Akroma + Phage, it's a "combo" of one card alone, Survival.
georgjorgeGeistreich sind schon die anderen.
With Congragation, you need to add a Mogg or something to the stack. Borrower has no haste and you will draw Kiki-Jiki in the turn you were supposed to make a bunch of tokens. Unless you have a way to keep KJ on top or a way to untap your infinite tapped Borrowers, you wont be able to win. If you add a Mogg, you can make all copies during upkeep, then draw Kiki-Jiki and sacrifice your Borrowers with the Mogg now on top of your library.
Regarding Kiki in hand, use your Brainstorms wisely.
FeFe Team: Legacy in the Southern Hemisphere.
Skill Borrower combos with Worldly Tutor (not Kiki-Jiki), similar to how Flash combos with Protean Hulk.
Sure you need some number of other cards in your deck in order for it to actually do something, but that doesn't change the fact that the cards it actually combos with are the card disadvantage tutors (Worldly, Enlightened, Lim-Dul's Vualt, Congregation at Dawn, etc).
Playing any more than 1 Kiki-Jiki in this combo downright awful. The combo is literally Skill Borrower + Worldly Tutor (as these are the two cards you're trying to resolve), not Skill Borrower + Kiki-Jiki (Kiki-Jiki having to be in your deck is really just a formality and has minimal effect on the rest of the game). Just like the combo is Buried Alive + Reanimate/Exhume (and you need Karmic Guide + Kiki-Jiki + Pestermite in your deck) and isn't actually Pestermite + Kiki-Jiki (you're never actually trying to resolve Kiki-Jiki here or with Skill Borrower, he isn't a 4-of in your deck).
If I have Kiki-Jiki and Skill Borrower in my hand, have I drawn the combo? Definitely not. If I have Skill Borrower and Worldly Tutor in my hand I have drawn the combo. It's irrelevant what creature/artifact Skill Borrower combos with, simply that there exists at least 1 card that when it's on top of your library and Skill Borrower is in play kills the opponent. Now you might argue "If you have Kiki-Jiki + Borrower + Brainstorm you have combo'd! What the hell?" Here Borrower isn't combo'ing with Kiki-Jiki but with Brainstorm. Skill Borrower is combos with cards that allow you to control what the top card of your library is. It's that simple. For the purposes of defining the combo succinctly, Kiki-Jiki only comes into the equation in that he must be in your deck.
Yeah, I guess you [pl.] are right. Is this the first combo in this thread that involves cards on the top of a library without Divining Top?
There was draco-explosion discussed before that included other ways to have a draco on top (LDV,Ponder, Brainstorm, Portent).
Don't know if this is helpful, but here's the link.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
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