[Deck] Reanimator

[oldbsturgeon]

Yeah I hate the deck now. I replaced the mysticals with other cards, first hapless researchers, then lim dul's vault and then intuition, and its pretty terrible feeling now.
So I have the entombs, which actually sold today, and the underground seas for the deck on ebay. I at least made a profit.
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

[PanderAlexander]

I agree, you cannot just replace mystical, if you do the deck isn't bad but not nearly as good. I think if the deck does survive and stay competive it will need to be revamped, a completely different play style.

[practical joke]

For me it will be hardly a change of playstyle.

I always worked my reanimate list with 4 careful study and 4 lotus petal.
I counted yesterday the ammount of games I used mystical effectively.

5 rounds of swiss and a t4 ( which I won, final split)

I used it once to go off T2 and twice as a end-game win.

I discared the card more often to careful study or pitched it to FoW.
Most should know my list as it was since it has been here a few times.

I'll be trying to remake reanimate without mysticals for sure, and it will not include intuition ( maybe as a 1-off, randomness ftw)

lim-duls vault should be working fine, sure the ammount of T2 drops won't be as high, but heck, you didn't always had a mystical tutor on hand either sometimes you just won out of a entomb + exhume rightaway.
'
I'll probably will be playing something like this. ( testing will still have to follow)

4 delta
4 random fetch to black
3 underground sea
1 bayou
1 swamp
1 island

4 lotus petal
4 thoughtseize
4 careful study
4 force of will
4 daze
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 exhume
4 brainstorm
2 hapless researcher or 2 putrid imp

4 ione shield of emeria
1 inkwell leviathan
2 sphinx of the steel wind
1 blazing archon


sideboard:

1 coffin purge
3 extirpate
4 show and tell
3 nature's claim
2 krosan grip
1 akroma, angel of wrath
1 inkwell leviathan


Why I chose for this build: it's about chances
getting things in your graveyard comes first, with 14 1-mana discard outlets I have no doubt it'll happen.
That's also why I will be upping the creature count. Because I can go for a hideous 10creature ammount post-board I added the full set of show and tells again, giving the deck an option to get mulitples on board. ( for example against zoo, daze does nothing, and thoughtseize is limited)
I added 2 krosan grips next to the 3 nature's claim since a first turn chalice @ 1 is devastating.

Further testing will have to result in me liking this or not, I'll make any changes if they feel necessary

[Shabbaman]

You are running low on mana. I'd suggest Dark Ritual instead of Petal and then Buried Alive in place of HR/PI. You could cut down the number of reanimation targets to make room for something else. DR plus Buried Alive seems better than Intuition. What I don't like about Intuition is that you have to run sets of three of the card you want to tutor. Even if it would get me Entomb, I wouldn't want to put two Entombs in the yard... I'm not exactly thrilled by Personal Tutor. It could get me Buried Alive (instead of Mystical into Entomb), but the sorcery speed is disappointing.

On the other hand, Lim-dul's vault is as exciting as it ever was. Legally stacking your deck is awesome :) One upside about LDV: it's blue, so it pitches to FoW. Your list is running low on blue.

BTW, it seems to me that if anyone would want to go budget, monoblack with Spoils of the Vault (Vault Dragon FTW) doesn't seem as terrible compared to the B/U version as it was before the banning of Mystical Tutor :/

[practical joke]

funny thing,

I only run 1 less blue card than my previous list.

lim-duls vault is a fine option, but I will definately let muppet86 test with that, since he's more attuned to a little slower ponder-built reanimate. ( yes with rituals)

I'm never running low on mana, 18 mana sources is plenty.

It's even a lot sometimes, as with the addition of hapless researcher I even run more cards to dig through my deck ( oh noes, it's a crappy cantrip whatsoever) it'll be fine as it is now as well.

I don't give a rats ass about buried alive since it's terribly slow. intuition is at least instant speed and by far superior to something like buried alive since it gives me choises, and most important it gives my opponent choises he doesn't even want.

I want to keep the speed high in this build, not it's consistency, which has been lowered by the loss of mystical. but that matters for both decks anyways.

The downside on lim-dulsvault is that it can cost you a fair ammount of life. which will affect gameplans drastically.

[Vacrix]

I suggest that everyone stop trying to find Mystical Tutor 'replacements'. The fact is there aren't any. You can play Intuition but even that is not a very versatile 1cc spell that dodges discard. Everyone ought to rework the entire Reanimator strategy if its going to stay afloat. Merely finding replacement slots for the current builds may not necessarily be the answer.

A while back, I saw someone try a Reanimator variant that used Enlightened Tutor as a utility spell, finding Animate Dead, Inkwell Leviathan, Sphinx of the Steel Winds. It can also find you Null Rod post-board if you have to deal with hate, and it can find O-ring for trouble-some permanents. Thoughts on this approach?

Otherwise, I think more cantrips is the right call. Don't use something shitty like Hapless Researcher or Putrid Imp. You can always try Breakthrough. I've tried it a few times in my build and it works well. If you Breakthrough for 2, keeping discard + Reanimation, discarding a creature, its tech. Sometimes it can be really bad though, like if you want to protect your Reanimation with FoW. In that case, Breakthrough builds might work better for discard protection suites.

[practical joke]

with breakthrough at 3mana, you might as well get intuition going >.<

hapless researcher isn't there as a mystical replacement, but as a discard outlet.
I'm not playing 4 iona's for nothing

There has been some thinking done, I admit I could've been under influence at that time.

[Cacks]

Personal tutor seems the best bet - just picked up 4 too - as it can find the reamination package, careful study, thoughsieze, and for the sideboard, show and tell, and various utility bullets. Since entomb is going to be much harder to find, may need something horrible like buried alive (there must be better options out there?) to tutor up. Will probably need to rejig the deck to something like 4 Iona, as careful studying may become more important. The deck is certainly hit hard, and will need to slow down, but I am not sure it is completely dead just yet.

[JonBarber]

Heres a crazy idea, Gamble. It doesn't show your opponent what card you are getting, your odds of kicking the picked card out of your 6/7 card hand are pretty slim, and it can find anything you need. Not to mention, with no cards in hand it becomes another entomb.

[practical joke]

yes, and the one dead card late-game is entomb ><

[jazzykat]

I think that IF "we" decide to go with either buried alive or intuition then I think we need to consider Bloodghast somewhere as it provides a very nasty trick.

Is there a bad demonic tutor somewhere that is says something like?

B1 Sorcery. Search your library for a card and put it in your hand. As an added cost discard a card as part of the cost.


Also, while it is a bit slower has anyone considered top. It seems that AdNT lists were running it. It may provide us the needed dig and gets us the card immediately...

[lep]

I reworked my build to be the following,

4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
1 Island

3 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Terostadon
1 Blazing Archon

4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

3 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm
3 Personal Tutor
3 Ponder
4 Careful Study
1 Show and Tell

2 Thoughtseize

Is has been running fairly consistent but the major loss is the toolboxness of the original build. I was forced to cut the only bounce and the board would need to be completely reworked. I tried it with Intuition but the mana cost of the spell meant I would need to rework the manabase and cut more into the deck to accomodate more lands and most likely Dark Ritual. The other major problem is quality of opening hands. As with any reanimator build you have to be agressive about mulligans to ensure your quality of opening hands. Unlike the mystical build though you don't often come back from a mull to 4 or 5.

[death]

The changes I've made to Gerry/LSV's build was to cut the singleton utilities (bounce/purge/SnT) as you cannot literally find them anymore. A 3rd Thoughtseize for Show and Tell has been doing well as a discard outlet, I also added 4x Ponder and 2x Animate Dead making reanimation less difficult. About 65-70% of the games I played never needed a Mystical Tutor. However, finding those 4x Entombs early and consistently is a problem without the tutors.

Edit: Personal Tutor won't be good, it does not solve the problem of finding Entombs.

[lep]

Edit: Personal Tutor won't be good, it does not solve the problem of finding Entombs.

The problem you face is there is no valid way to find Entomb beyond sheer card draw. Intuition is outside the curve and really is lackluster. I can see the bonus of running Intuition for 3 dudes but I wouldn't often want to go for much else. We do not have instant speed instant tutors any longer. You can either rebuild the shell into a more of a control build, which I am not a fan of, or try to win off of card advantage or card quality. I went with the later. Although Personal Tutor cannot find Entomb, you can pull Show and Tell, Careful Study, and Ponder to filter your quality some.

The only hope I really have is that people start running less hate and a more aggressive version will be able to survive.

[death]

I personally don't like Show and Tell main because 98% of decks don't play GY hate g1. Occasionally, there were times my opponent would drop something relevant off SnT (Humility, Sower, Oblivion Ring, etc.)

[Jon Stewart]

I personally think the slightly slower more controllish path is the way to go.

But if you want to go pure aggro, maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing to start from the build in the OP and work off of that. The build was clearly based on a lot of testing and was pretty aggressive.

12 Reanimate effects, and 14 Discard effects (counting Entomb) + 14 Creatures (counting Entomb) + 4 Brainstorm, 4 Careful Study and 2 Hapless Researcher to draw you more cards seems a lot more promising at getting you a turn 2 combo every game if you ask me. It's actually far more consistent in letting you combo off by turn two than the preban builds of the deck. It just had to become more focused on black and sacrifice FoW in order to make this happen.

Obviously the build in the OP is outdated and the deck should play Ionas, and Thoughtseizes over Oona's Prowlers and what not, but just in terms of strategy, it could work...

Here's my quick and dirty take on that deck...

Spells:
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Animate Dead
4x Entomb
4x Thoughtseize
4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm
3x Daze

Creatures
4x Iona
2x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2x Inkwell Leviathan
2x Blazing Archon
2x Hapless Researcher

Lands:
4x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Polluted Delta
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Swamp
1x Island

I may have gone overboard on the discard outlets. If so, it just means more room to squeeze in more good stuff into the deck. Possibly some Life/Death or Dance of the Dead.

[The Wolf]

Just a note, personal tutor can get a 1x of buried alive, 1x show and tell, and exhume. Its slower, and buried alive is more expensive, but its not a total bust.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah but Entomb is the best card in the whole deck. It doubles as both a creature and discard outlet. There's a reason it was banned for so long.

If a tutor can't grab the best card in the deck, then it's not a great tutor.

I think I was wrong about my previous build. If it also runs Breakthrough/Ponder, it wouldn't even need to play more than 12 discard outlets or creatures.

Here's my revised build...

Spells:
4x Daze
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Animate Dead
4x Entomb
4x Thoughtseize
4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder/Breakthrough

Creatures
4x Iona
2x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Blazing Archon

Lands:
4x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Polluted Delta
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Swamp
1x Island

There, 12 Reanimates, 12 Creatures (Counting Entomb), 12 Discard Outlets (Counting Entomb & Thoughtseize), 8 Disruption Spells AND 11 Cantrips . That should make the deck pretty damn consistent if nothing else.

If the deck plays Breakthrough though, it should probably make room for Dark Ritual as well.

[Jon Stewart]

Does Reanimator as a deck even have to be about reanimating big creatures? Or can it just be about reanimating creatures?

Could something like this be effective?


Spells:
3x Cabal Therapy/Dark Ritual
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Entomb
4x Thoughtseize
4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm
4x Breakthrough/Buried Alive/Intuition

Creatures
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Bloodghast
4x Tombstalker

Lands:
4x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Polluted Delta
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Swamp
1x Island

Yes the deck is similar to Ichorid, but I think this version is stronger than Ichorid rather than weaker.

[Vacrix]

I think all the attempts at innovation are good. This is what we need, crazy ideas that might come to fruition.

@ Jon Stewart
I like your first list better. Turning into Ichorid isn't a good idea IMO.



What if we tried.. Burning Wish? We don't necessarily need to keep playing a fast build. We could play sweepers in the board to deal with aggro, and then follow it up with reanimation. BW can grab reanimation spells, protection, or sweepers. Seems pretty good to me.