Fatal Push is a perfect card with Standstill. Destroying huge bodies for B is pretty key. I think Bolts worse then its ever been right now.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx
My deck is coming together, going uw for now
What are your thoughts about these cards (in 75) ~
Grand Abolisher - is the ww casting cost a major problem? Otherwise gives many of the advantages of T3feri.
Hushbringer
Unsettled Mariner
WW will always be difficult to pull. A resilient and reliable manabase is one the strengths of Dreadstill, and trying to pull off WW for an effect that Small Teferi can do seems lacklustre; you'll inevitably need to expose yourself to Wasteland to stick him. He just fits better in a Prison or DnT-style deck.
Hushbringer was discussed when it was spoiled a few pages back. It has a nice effect, but is easier to remove than Torpor Orb.
Not sure if Mariner really fits in what were trying to do as UW. Might make things inconvenient for Oko decks, but it seems more like a speedbump than a real answer. Mind posting the rest of your list? Might give more insight on how some of those selections may synergize with your plan.
UW as a whole plays a lot like Landstill, in that we're trying to manage and control the game, until we can dictate the pace of the game and lock our opponent into an unwinnable situation. The Stifle/Dread combo gives us the flexibility to "accidentally" win and a speedy clock once we do seize control of the game.
Grand Abolisher is easy to kill, not blue, able to be elk'd, plays into Wrath, and doesn't answer things like Chalice. Teferi is a card you need to buy if you're on UW. There are more interactions which Teferi can do, but those are among the most important.
Hushbringer/Tocatli/Hushwing all play into Wrath and removal, and are just less powerful than Scroll of Fate. You can also get their effect by Karn [-2] for Torpor Orb (so you don't have to draw a potentially dead card).
Unsettled Mariner is played in heavy creature count decks (Cavern/Vial).
^this all is based on my build; like @crispymelee says, we'd need to see your list. All the cards you're naming make it sound like you're really trying hard to make Dreadnoughts, and if you fail to do that, you lose. The luxury of UW is that you don't need to care about making them to win games. One of the main dangers of the cards you're listing off is that they all really put you behind vs Goyf, and the 'dies to Goyf' test is really important to pass at the point of deck construction.
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On Theros Beyond Death:
Almost no cards are really standing out, but I've only gone over the rares and mythics. The only one of interest is Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, but it's wildly overpriced, certainly as long as Oko is legal, so expect that price to crash from the ~$30 it's at now. Elspeth is like a thing you could do, and it's recursive, but uh...seems pretty dubious.
In terms of UG Dreadnought, we're getting closer to playable. The main problem is the lack of defensible 1cmc removal (so no Standstill), and the spin-off problem is that Oko can't be played b/c UG doesn't have a way to deal with Elks given to opponents (and Factory isn't playing well vs 3/3 either). You could play Dismember and try Standstill, but that's too much life loss.
Your creature package would be Dreadnoughts, Ice-Fang (best removal possible), and Uro. You would get to play maindeck Veil of Summers, but likely would not be able to play Daze. There would still be holes in the deck, but Lotus Field looks a whole lot better once Uro arrives. Spam Uro into play (it's basically uncounterable in 3 mana form), dump Lotus Field into play, sac 2 lands = 2 cards closer to escape...and this is when you're not using Stifle of Sundial for Lotus Field. This is close to where I'd start:
Misty x4
Vista x4
Wasteland x4
Snow-covered Island x3
Snow-covered Forest x2
Tropical Island x1
Lotus Field x2
Dreadnought x4
Ice-Fang x4
Uro x3
Karn, the Great Creator x2
Nissa, Vital Force x2 (this does stupid things with Lotus Field)
Brainstorm x4
FoW x4
Stifle x4
Veil of Summer x3
FoN x2
Noxious Revival x1
Crop Rotation x1
Azcanta x1
Sylvan x1
Sundial x1
Scroll of Fate x2
EE-type card x1
SB to include:
Tormods
Crucible
Scroll of Fate
Liquimetal Coating
EE-type card
Karakas
Force of Vigor
I don't think you can really get away with Astrolabe playsets + Dreadnought unless you're doing something with Welder. I think the deck is pretty close to playable. There's technically an option to play Thing in the Ice, but so much of legacy is playing ETB value scummers already so probably not the best idea.
My thoughtline with Abolisher is it's about the only case that really abuses the fact that unmorphing doesn't use the stack. So if you start your turn with a Manifested Abolisher on the board, your opponent has zero window to interact on your turn since they can't respond to you unmorphing the Abolisher. So whatever interaction they held in their hand, like flashing in Coatl, or Terminus on your turn, stays stuck.
I'm trying to figure out a good way to leverage the Settler's Changeling powers. What I like is that he makes your opponent's Wastelands cost 1 to activate, and he also really pushes Daze's usefulness.
Not sure when I'll get some real playing in, since next week is going to be hijacked by TBD prerelease. My deck is pretty standard except I'm trying Ancient Tombs instead of Wastelands (Wastelands are kind of frowned upon in my meta). Should be able to drop T3feri on T2 consistently, we'll see.
Interesting take on ug. I have my eye on Uros but more as a Cascade target in Modern.
So the issue there is that they can cast spells on their end step through Abolisher, whereas Teferi would stop that, and Nought doesn't have haste. Once you have Teferi and Scroll out, a hand full of removal does nothing.
VERY interesting that your meta has something against what is a pretty long-established card in Wasteland. I understand that people don't like being able to play their fun and shiny spells, but this is Legacy, where Factories, Duals, Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors, and a myriad of utility lands (Karakas, Thespians Stage, Dark Depths, Maze of Ith, etc.etc.) would run rampant without some kind of check.
Also, I think I'm missing something here - how does a Tomb power out small Teferi on T2? Unless we're in Bant and have Noble Hierarchs running about, or using Petals/some artifact filter (Chromatic Sphere/Star? Mana Cylix?), I'm not seeing how we're ramping into early Teferi.
1) Astrolabe
2) Skycloud Expanse or possibly Interplanar Beacon although that's doubtful
I am in Bant for Once Upon a Time to help dig for Ancient Tomb or whatever land.
Just found this deck that has basically the land base I'm using, except with a snow Forest instead of the 2nd snow Plain, and I have 2 Factories: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetyp...s-mentor#paper
My mind missed the most obvious answer.By the way, post that list! Would help everyone here give insight on options you could try.
Got to play several rounds against a Miracles deck last night using my UR build. Felt pretty close to even, but would have preferred playing against him on UW. Two things felt like I absolutely could not let them resolve; CB and Mentor. With only Karn'd EE pre-board & REB/Brazen Borrower post-board to deal with the former, and Bolts (didnt side in Dismember) for the latter, either of those permanents sticking became a huge issue. Mentor just got out of hand, and the clustering of low-cmc spells in UR didn't help if a CB landed; having a hand of Delver x2, Nought, Stifle x2 vs CB felt awful.
Conversely, Manifests and Scroll in general felt amazing, as did Factory; despite that, I found myself wishing for UW as Small Teferi + Factory/Scroll still seems like the optimal way to abuse Scroll and manlands. I'm thinking instead of 2x Ashiok from the side, I might go for an even split of Narset/Ashiok if I run UR in the future. Overall, got some good practice with UR. Definitely starting to understand better why Fox relates UWx.deks with graveyard decks; between SCM, AK, and Mystic Sanctuary, there's a lot they lose out on with access to that resource.
With the rise in Show/Tell and snow control ive been maindecking 2 Mystical Dispute. Cards pretty gas.. also hits the UG Strix and UB.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
Are you still running UB? If so, how's it going?
We did it boys. First 5-0 on MTGO League. Trophy time! Was on UR for this specific league and the deck felt really sweet. Quick analysis report...I've been on UB Dreadstill on MTGO for the past week or two and I've loved the deck (Top 3 at ELDs) online I have missed True-Name nemesis and specifically abrade in the sideboard. So I made the swap back to UR Dreadstill and my results so far have been excellent.
MUs were
2-1 Belcher
2-0 Infect
2-1 MUD Ramp w/ Karn and Mystic Forge 2-1
2-0 Esper Mentor
2-0 Storm
Decklist will be posted on their site in due time. Back on top :D
4x Dreadnought
4x Stifle
4x Daze
4x FOW
4x Bolt
3x TNN
1x Scroll of Fate
4x Snare
4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Delta
3x Flooded Strand
4x Island
2x Volcanic Island
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland
SB:
3x REB
2x Abrade
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x EE
2x Back to Basics
2x Dismember
2x Agent of Treachery
Now before you ask...yes my list is warped towards the hostile online meta a tad bit...alot of Show and Tell and chalice.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
Do you really need 4 spell snares?
I think black has a better matchup against a general field, but black can't kill artifacts
Great job Rood, congrats!! I've been off of Dreadnoughts myself since the W6 ban and have joined the vanilla UR Delver horde for the time being--I don't trust Standstill in a local meta full of tempo decks, with Pushes, Swords, and Decay all having gone up in %. Gonna try some Phoenix lists next, but before long I'll get back to the beloved 12/12s.
Some unexpected choices in your list: What made you fall out of love with the Scroll? Just too slow for combo MUs? Is it not still one of our best responses to Chalice/Trinisphere, especially since Moon Stompy has started replacing MD Abrades with the Stomp Giant? And what's the reasoning behind running Snares over Pierces + Force#5 (especially since you mention S&S), TNN over Brazen Bouncer (since you mention Chalice)? Has Oko been hated out of the MtgO meta for the time being?
Agent of Treachery...?
Black cant beat a resolved ensnaring bridge. Possibly 2-3 Brazen Borrowers can fix this
Agents are for online meta of like 30% Show and Tell
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
@Rood: congrats man! Always putting up the results with the big boys. I'm also really interested in the move down to 1x Scroll in the main; does the online meta really demand that? Cool call on the Agent inclusion.
@Kobe: it's this very reason why I think a UB build with Karn is worth looking into. On that note, managed to get my hands on my first Underground Sea :)
Also, Oko, hated out? Please let me know how haha (Display of Dominance, CJudgment, REB?).
Oh shit, nice tech!
I had gotten a few 4-1 finishes with the UB build but couldnt get over the hump. TNN just beats 80% of fair strategies whereas Scroll is good but i found it hard in fair MUs to have the resources to pitch (Delver). I also want to point out I only like TNN in bolt decks
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
You should use gilded drake instead. At least you can cast it
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