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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #4121

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Rood View Post
    You on Scrolls? What kinda shell you on
    Working multiple lists. One I'm interested in is Sultai Dreadstill with Scrolls.

  2. #4122
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Lazav and Abrupt Decay both seem like pretty good inclusions in Sultai, and you already mentioned Crop Rotation and Library. I totally understand if you don't want to spoil the list, but if you want to post it after the event, I would love to see it.
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  3. #4123

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I seriously have no idea what's in it. I'm just looking at various color combinations and how this thing plays out. There's a lot of ways you can go with it, but it's tough.

    That being said, I think one of the most underrated cards in the format right now is, in fact, Abrupt Decay. It's such a clean answer to so many things.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    That being said, I think one of the most underrated cards in the format right now is, in fact, Abrupt Decay. It's such a clean answer to so many things.
    I've squeezed 2 in my Turbo Depths maindeck, would love to be able to get 3 in there but space is tight. I 100% agree with you on this, and it's another reason I like Vision Charm in the mono-blue list because it 'counters' Abrupt Decay alongside feeding Gargoyle and phasing Dreadnoughts.
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  5. #4125
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Fox is the list attributed to you on page 1 still accurate?
    What is Mastery of the Unseen for? Unless I'm missing an interaction it doesn't seem like the lifegain will trigger often or for a whole lot, and the Manifest seems expensive as well.
    I'm generally okay at figuring out most corner cases, but this one I'm lost.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  6. #4126
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I wouldnt use Lazav. In testing it was too hard to reliably cast. Scroll, Torpor Orb and mimic are better options
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Fox is the list attributed to you on page 1 still accurate?
    What is Mastery of the Unseen for? Unless I'm missing an interaction it doesn't seem like the lifegain will trigger often or for a whole lot, and the Manifest seems expensive as well.
    I'm generally okay at figuring out most corner cases, but this one I'm lost.
    forget it...that card can't do anythinb better than scroll of fate

  8. #4128
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    It was the card that was first responsible for unlocking UW as a playable colorset (i.e. turning top of deck into zone of value, see also E Tutor). Scroll is mostly better, except when you need CA in a grindy matchup. The card coming in face-down off Mastery is not from your hand, and that's the key difference.

    Against slower decks, I value a different card name and permanent type. The value upside makes it a stronger E-Tutor target than Scroll, and I still get to leave a Scroll in the board for Karn. The card also puts a swift stop fateseal from JTMS.

    Having 2x Scroll on board is redundant, having Scroll + Mastery is synergistic.

  9. #4129
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Rood View Post
    I wouldnt use Lazav. In testing it was too hard to reliably cast. Scroll, Torpor Orb and mimic are better options
    @Rood: Speaking for classic builds with Standstills + Factories here (duh! this is the Dreadstill thread after all.)

    But so if I may (since Standstill-less lists have been discussed here recently and there is no other Dreadnought thread): In the UB tempo version with Ponders Lazav actually works fine--not great--as a 1 or 2 of and secondary/tertiary enabler. I have ditched him in my current build, since he exacerbates our weakness to Tundra/Plow and creates a graveyard dependency that I'd rather not lean into too hard; but Lazav is also the only other reasonable way other than the classic "hard cast" (Stifle/V Charm self-2for1) to be attacking with a 12/12 on T3. T1 Thoughtseize into T2 Lazav with Daze backup is nothing to sneeze at and happens more often than one might expect. And of all possible color configurations, BUG is probably the one where Lazav makes the most sense, on the back of his synergy with Goyf alone. (Might want to cut Delvers there, tho.)

    @Michael Keller: I feel you: the Dreadnought options are multifarious indeed (ho ho) and far from solved. I personally love the untouchable mana bases of the 2-color builds. Then it essentially comes down to your preference between the power of Standstill vs. the consistency of Ponder as well as Bolts vs. Swords vs. Thoughtseize/Fatal Push.

    Meanwhile, I'm pretty excited atm about perfect new utility toys for UB in Brazen Bouncer and Drown in the Loch.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Yes please
    I get the distinct feeling it'd be a pleasure to watch Fox or Rood mop up a room with an "outside" deck.

    On a more serious topic: sideboarding! I'm more or less settled on my initial 60 here, so now the question becomes what to do with the other 15. (60 here. The 3x CS could be any mix of Spell Snare, Pierce, CS, or some other permission. I could be persuaded to go down to 8 counters (+1 Scroll? +1 land?), but the Landstill player in me is already nervous about having "only" 9, and I'm playing more along the lines of control than tempo.)

    I'm expecting a room with about a 40/40/20 split of Midrange, Combo, Aggro/Control, and want to take advantage of 2x Karn in the main.

    Have this so far based on looking around other lists:
    1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
    1x Scroll of Fate
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Liquimetal Coating (thx Fox!)
    1x Enlightened Tutor
    1x RiP
    1x Ethersworn Canonist
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Tormod's
    1x Ashiok, Dream Render
    1x Engineered Explosives
    1x Containment Priest
    1x Pithing Needle
    2x Flusterstorm

    Now for the fun questions that show my rust and age:
    - What is CPriest used for? Anti-Reanimator tech (but not Bridge from Below)? What is Priest's interaction with Manifested cards from Scroll vs creatures Vial'd in?
    - any obvious includes or gaps that I'm missing? I wanted to focus on Storm.dek and gy.dek. Would love to fit in a Humility as well.

    Thanks for getting me back into the game, guys.

  11. #4131
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    C. Priest is for Ichorid, Narco, Reanimator, and Show and Tell. While in play, it will push any attempted manifest directly to exile. Other cards hit will be Vial, GSZ/NO, Flickerwisp returns, and quite hilariously Dryad Arbor (this should be most of the relevant interactions). Not much of a downside for you with Teferi to return it at any time.

    I think you probably have enough anti-yard slots.

    Edit, answer to below: yes Nodes is mostly there for TNN/Goose/Hexdrinker. It's also fine vs Reanimator and Mother of Runes/hatebear types.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    C. Priest is for Ichorid, Narco, Reanimator, and Show and Tell. While in play, it will push any attempted manifest directly to exile. Other cards hit will be Vial, GSZ/NO, Flickerwisp returns, and quite hilariously Dryad Arbor (this should be most of the relevant interactions). Not much of a downside for you with Teferi to return it at any time.

    I think you probably have enough anti-yard slots.
    Something I hadn't considered. Thanks for the rundown on CPriest!

    I noticed you ran PNodes in your list. Is that to just deal with swarms/TNN?

  13. #4133

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by crispymelee View Post
    I get the distinct feeling it'd be a pleasure to watch Fox or Rood mop up a room with an "outside" deck.

    On a more serious topic: sideboarding! I'm more or less settled on my initial 60 here, so now the question becomes what to do with the other 15. (60 here. The 3x CS could be any mix of Spell Snare, Pierce, CS, or some other permission. I could be persuaded to go down to 8 counters (+1 Scroll? +1 land?), but the Landstill player in me is already nervous about having "only" 9, and I'm playing more along the lines of control than tempo.)

    I'm expecting a room with about a 40/40/20 split of Midrange, Combo, Aggro/Control, and want to take advantage of 2x Karn in the main.

    Have this so far based on looking around other lists:
    1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
    1x Scroll of Fate
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Liquimetal Coating (thx Fox!)
    1x Enlightened Tutor
    1x RiP
    1x Ethersworn Canonist
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Tormod's
    1x Ashiok, Dream Render
    1x Engineered Explosives
    1x Containment Priest
    1x Pithing Needle
    2x Flusterstorm

    Now for the fun questions that show my rust and age:
    - What is CPriest used for? Anti-Reanimator tech (but not Bridge from Below)? What is Priest's interaction with Manifested cards from Scroll vs creatures Vial'd in?
    - any obvious includes or gaps that I'm missing? I wanted to focus on Storm.dek and gy.dek. Would love to fit in a Humility as well.

    Thanks for getting me back into the game, guys.
    Crispymelee I see some weekness in your list, starting from the choice of the counterspell package.
    - Counterspell is ok, but 11 blue mana sources risk to make it not a turn 2 solid spell
    - Force of Negation can't protect your turn 2 Standstill and can't protect you bombs, sorcery bombs. Misdirection does it better and also hits Abrupt Decay targetting one of your super slow bombs.

    And to my view there are two other weeknesses
    - The first is that you have 15 spells you don't play without 3 lands (and you have 20), which are way too much (3 teferi 3 dreadnought 2 scroll 2 karn 2 verdict 3 snapcaster) and you opponents' play Daze, Wasteland, Spell Pierce, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben etc to slow you down. In the other cards you have 3 counterspell wich is not well supported by your manabase and 4 standstill which is not playable turn 2 against everyone. I suggest you to reduce the number of "bombs" and (maybe cut the super slow Karn which is like riding the bike with deflated tires in this deck).
    - The second is that your list is extremely week to
    a) Dark Depth which is a real deck and can win under your Standstill (and Thespian's Stage is not easy to hit with Wasteland because they can copy a basic land making it invunerable to it. They allways do it as soon as they can. Ghost Quarter to my view should be in 1 or 2 copies because it hits Thespian's Stage anyway.)
    b) Turn 2 Wrenn and Six make Standstill useless (Wasteland recursion) and you have few ways to kill it.
    c) Burn spells. You are slow and you don't have lifegain. I suggest you a couple of Baneslayer Angel in the 75 which is even not vulnerable to Spell Pierce, Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, Abrupt Decay. Against Chalice of the Void Decks, RUG Delver, Burn, Goblin, BUG he is so good (and he is protected from Griselbrand which is a Demon). As a landstill player you should remember Exalted Angel against Burn, Canadian Threshold and Goblins.

    You probabely played Forbid back in the days. Try fetchable 1 Mystic Sanctuary + 1 Deprive, could be fun lategame.

    A suggestion for a landstill player: Mutavault + Retrofitter Foundry (Mutavault is a Thopter) + Crucible of Worlds.

  14. #4134
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    @frustanani
    The mana needs some work, mostly it's the Verdict + only 1x basic Plains. Not sure if the 1x Plains thing is fixable in this build without moving Karakas to the board. Misdirection is interesting, but FoN is a much safer choice (also, we play Teferi); important to remember that Snare can't exactly be hit by Misdirection. There's a lot of tap-out-and-jam going on in legacy atm, and a lot of the things they're tapping out for die to white cards. There's also more options when you can defer a Standstill to a later turn with Wasteland/Stifle [to remove all remaining mana from a partial tap-out]. Every card that overshoots Standstill in this list comes back to making that Standstill usable. Scroll will re-purpose it, Teferi will drain their countermagic, Karn can go after lands, and Verdict can reset the board for Standstill. Just like any deck with Standstill, its inclusion begets power & asymmetry at the cost of variance (sometimes uncastable); Dreadnought just happens to play more cards that support it better, in less conventional ways.

    Stage has to expose itself to Wasteland to do the thing with Dark Depths. Wrenn doesn't do that much in a timely manner, but yes casting a Standstill into it would usually not be a great idea. On lifegain: 1 mana 12/12 + StP (you can also just outrace Burn with Nought). Karn is doing too much this list wants, so not getting cut.

    You made some reasonable points, but your advice to fix things was a little off. Baneslayer is not a playable magic card; it costs 5 mana and two are white. The 5 mana, dies to removal dude isn't the most solvent idea in the format (you just play a PW), but the leading candidates in white are probably Archangel Avacyn (flip-flash Serra) and Dragonlord Ojutai. Mystic Sanctuary (with or without Deprive) is a deck registration error, resulting in loss to manabase. Mutavault/Retrofitter/Crucible is a set of cards that aren't great individually, and the grand idea can mostly be found on one PW (Oko most recently).

    With the UW builds you have to step back and look at the sum of effects and ask yourself what the deck is trying to do. This deck isn't about locking itself into one plan of winning, which would have to be proactive. For that to work, you'd need more threats, more Scroll, and probably also need to be on UR for Bolt. You do something like taking out Karn, and you're losing most of your lines of play/reasons for choosing certain lines; the leftover play patterns would be simpler, but not competitive.

  15. #4135

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    @frustanani
    The mana needs some work, mostly it's the Verdict + only 1x basic Plains. Not sure if the 1x Plains thing is fixable in this build without moving Karakas to the board. Misdirection is interesting, but FoN is a much safer choice (also, we play Teferi); important to remember that Snare can't exactly be hit by Misdirection. There's a lot of tap-out-and-jam going on in legacy atm, and a lot of the things they're tapping out for die to white cards. There's also more options when you can defer a Standstill to a later turn with Wasteland/Stifle [to remove all remaining mana from a partial tap-out]. Every card that overshoots Standstill in this list comes back to making that Standstill usable. Scroll will re-purpose it, Teferi will drain their countermagic, Karn can go after lands, and Verdict can reset the board for Standstill. Just like any deck with Standstill, its inclusion begets power & asymmetry at the cost of variance (sometimes uncastable); Dreadnought just happens to play more cards that support it better, in less conventional ways.

    Stage has to expose itself to Wasteland to do the thing with Dark Depths. Wrenn doesn't do that much in a timely manner, but yes casting a Standstill into it would usually not be a great idea. On lifegain: 1 mana 12/12 + StP (you can also just outrace Burn with Nought). Karn is doing too much this list wants, so not getting cut.

    You made some reasonable points, but your advice to fix things was a little off. Baneslayer is not a playable magic card; it costs 5 mana and two are white. The 5 mana, dies to removal dude isn't the most solvent idea in the format (you just play a PW), but the leading candidates in white are probably Archangel Avacyn (flip-flash Serra) and Dragonlord Ojutai. Mystic Sanctuary (with or without Deprive) is a deck registration error, resulting in loss to manabase. Mutavault/Retrofitter/Crucible is a set of cards that aren't great individually, and the grand idea can mostly be found on one PW (Oko most recently).

    With the UW builds you have to step back and look at the sum of effects and ask yourself what the deck is trying to do. This deck isn't about locking itself into one plan of winning, which would have to be proactive. For that to work, you'd need more threats, more Scroll, and probably also need to be on UR for Bolt. You do something like taking out Karn, and you're losing most of your lines of play/reasons for choosing certain lines; the leftover play patterns would be simpler, but not competitive.
    If you read more carefully, I wrote that Baneslayer could be a solution for lifegain, Dragonlord Ojutai or Archangel Avacyn no, U or W planeswalker maybe but I don't remember any. Also Timely Reinforcements can do that job or Kitchen Finks or the UUW counterspell ... no matter what. I was pointing out that against some aggressive decks, a so slow list should have something to take lifes back. (By the Way .. Baneslayer in the 75 that is to say in the side, is faster than the clunky Karn and sometimes even cheeper ... spell pierce). Playing Swords to Plowshares on your own Phyrexian Dreadnought is like cutting your balls to make angry your girlfriend ... not a smart strategy.

    I was not questioning on the strategy and the build on the idea, but on the fact that half of the deck is not playable before having 3 lands and (not in goldfish mode) even after. That list needs to be more agile, athletic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Crucible is a set of cards that aren't great individually
    Seriously ? Tier decks are RUG Delver which has no basic land and Dark Depth based decks. Control decks are the one who should adapt themself to the meta.

  16. #4136
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by frustanani View Post
    Crispymelee I see some weekness in your list, starting from the choice of the counterspell package.
    - Counterspell is ok, but 11 blue mana sources risk to make it not a turn 2 solid spell
    - Force of Negation can't protect your turn 2 Standstill and can't protect you bombs, sorcery bombs. Misdirection does it better and also hits Abrupt Decay targetting one of your super slow bombs.

    And to my view there are two other weeknesses
    - The first is that you have 15 spells you don't play without 3 lands (and you have 20), which are way too much (3 teferi 3 dreadnought 2 scroll 2 karn 2 verdict 3 snapcaster) and you opponents' play Daze, Wasteland, Spell Pierce, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben etc to slow you down. In the other cards you have 3 counterspell wich is not well supported by your manabase and 4 standstill which is not playable turn 2 against everyone. I suggest you to reduce the number of "bombs" and (maybe cut the super slow Karn which is like riding the bike with deflated tires in this deck).
    - The second is that your list is extremely week to
    a) Dark Depth which is a real deck and can win under your Standstill (and Thespian's Stage is not easy to hit with Wasteland because they can copy a basic land making it invunerable to it. They allways do it as soon as they can. Ghost Quarter to my view should be in 1 or 2 copies because it hits Thespian's Stage anyway.)
    b) Turn 2 Wrenn and Six make Standstill useless (Wasteland recursion) and you have few ways to kill it.
    c) Burn spells. You are slow and you don't have lifegain. I suggest you a couple of Baneslayer Angel in the 75 which is even not vulnerable to Spell Pierce, Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, Abrupt Decay. Against Chalice of the Void Decks, RUG Delver, Burn, Goblin, BUG he is so good (and he is protected from Griselbrand which is a Demon). As a landstill player you should remember Exalted Angel against Burn, Canadian Threshold and Goblins.

    You probabely played Forbid back in the days. Try fetchable 1 Mystic Sanctuary + 1 Deprive, could be fun lategame.

    A suggestion for a landstill player: Mutavault + Retrofitter Foundry (Mutavault is a Thopter) + Crucible of Worlds.
    Thank you for the feedback! Could use a lot of it after such a long hiatus. I'll go through your points 1 by 1.

    - @ CS: Yea, I'm not happy with these 3 slots. I made note that those 3 slots will be some mix of of Pierce, Snare, Mana Leak, etc., for the very reason you said - UU will be tricky to hit. It's why I'm considering cutting one of these slots for "land", probably an Island or a Tundra. Interestingly, Fox's UW list has fewer counters than Rood's UR list, even though they're playing broadly along the lines of control and tempo respectively.

    - @ FoN: I haven't run this card personally. But my understanding is that it isn't meant to protect your own spells; it's a Cancel that happens to be able to be played for free on your opponent's turn. Verdicts can't be countered (just exiled), and I'm thinking more along the lines of using FoW + Pierce/Snare/etc. to protect my later bombs. With Teferi on the board, that concern is more or less muted. Misdirection is an interesting card that I would run out of the side at most, but looking at my LGS's meta over the past 6 months, there just isn't a lot of Hymn stuff going on to make me really want to consider it, which leads to...

    - @ Matchups: I last played competitively 2009-2010, and Landstill suffered from rolling over to Burn and trying to keep up with the infestation of Big Zoo, Fish and Goblins at the time. Burn has showed up in 3 lists over the past 6 months at the LGS. I'd have a harder time than UR versions racing Burn, but I'm sure it's still FAR better than anything LS could do (Dread + StP is effectively "discard 4 Bolts"). More concerning to me is Depths which I have no experience against and has ranged from 10-30% of the meta over the same period. When is the correct window to hit them with the Waste, if Thespian's is a "Basic Land" copy when it attempts to copy Depths?

    - @ Standstill: Yea, jamming Standstill recklessly is going to be far from ideal in a lot of matchups; the number of times I could confidently drop one on t2, g1, is actually pretty small. But being able to keep the board (relatively) clear and then playing it later is something I'm comfortable doing, esp. when I'm fairly sure I can abuse the "symmetric" board state better than they can. Even late, I'm not going to be unhappy to see it as it still as interactions with a lot of relevant cards (FoW, FoN, Scroll).

    - @ mana: I could have sworn I put a second Plains in my 60, which would make 11 sources for both U and W (previously was only one Plains, which necessitated Plains + Karakas for Verdict. Scary.). I do have 4 Tundra available, but wanted to minimize the impact of the number of Stompy/Moon/non-basic-hate.dek that I'm predicting will show up on Sunday. One of the above CS slots may well be Tundra or Vista#4, but 4 Will, 2 Negation, 2 (pierce/snare/whatever) feels light for the lines I'm looking to play.

    - that combo looks fun, but given the issues you've raised with my lists speed, it hardly looks like I'd be able to pull it off. I def remember testing a Thopter/Sword package into LS lists way back when, and that feels like it'd be faster/more consistent


    EDIT: re CoW: I think that what Fox was saying in regards to Crucible is that on it's own, Crucible doesn't proactively do a lot. It hits the board, then enables another zone to be a resource. Karn on the other hand turns off multiple relevant artifacts the turn he hits play, can kill problem artifacts (Chalice, Moxes, Zuran Orb), and still enables CoW shenanigans if you really want by having it out of the side. Is Karn slower? Yes. But with UW lists trying to slow the game down anyways, this is something we expect, so we might as well get something online with bigger bang for the buck.

  17. #4137
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    So we're failing to understand that Burn just dies to Dreadnought, cause it always has. It doesn't matter what colors the Dreadnought is using, it's quicker than Burn *when* you have it (this takes 2 mana). Playing a 5 mana summoning sick angel is not a real thing against Burn. I'm also never going to rely on a 5-drop vs Reanimator - especially since the card is not randomly immune to being stolen if discarded.

    Now *if* Burn gets the drop on you, gaining 12 life out of nowhere is highly effective; it's also a crushing blowout for them if this is in response to Smash to Smithereens. The correct reading of the situation is that when you gain 12 against Burn, that's a minimum of -4 draws for them and only -2 for you.

    Getting to 3 mana isn't especially hard with 20 lands; we can talk about 20 vs 21 land, but I'm not interested in talking about the finer points of 3 mana with someone advocating for a 5-drop angel. On the other part you quoted, playing Mutavault + Retrofitter + Crucible together; you can find the meat and potatoes of that combo on a single PW which takes a single slot. By itself Crucible is one of the least defensible maindeck cards in legacy since the printing of Karn. There's no such thing as being pro-Crucible and anti-Karn (unless you're on Vintage Fastbond). Karn gives you Crucible without having to draw it, and you get access to killing basic lands or changing any problem permanent into a Plow target.

    The cards you are advocating for cannot be played in Dreadnought because they're not part of the plan. You have some valid points, but most of the cards you say the deck needs would actively impede it (they're also often outdated). The key to this deck is de-railing other strategies, and Karn is too good at this to pass up. Without those lines of play, you have to account for things like Surgical and add threats, which reduces the deck to a strategy as simple as mono-U...and the greatest weakness there is that they're basically playing Merfolk [only one solution, no matter the obstacle].

    Look at your suggested cards and tell me how exactly we're gaining access to lines like "your turn zero Chalice resolves, b/c I no longer care," instead of having to assess and answer problems in the same way as every other blue deck in legacy (which isn't playing a self 2-for-1). Any Dreadnought list should be picking up virtual CA by ignoring common format problems, not by stopping to directly answer them. The foundations of the deck have to be there before adding extraneous 1-offs that don't play nicely with the machine.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    @crispymelee Stage can be whatever it wants. The opponent puts copy Depths on the stack [this is when you would Stifle, if that was your play] -> resolves, legend rule sac the Depths, check SBAs they put state-based trigger on stack -> Wasteland Stage [currently a Depths] -> resolve state-based trigger, fizzles. Check the weather outside, it's Rain of Salt.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    @crispymelee Stage can be whatever it wants. The opponent puts copy Depths on the stack [this is when you would Stifle, if that was your play] -> resolves, legend rule sac the Depths, check SBAs they put state-based trigger on stack -> Wasteland Stage [currently a Depths] -> resolve state-based trigger, fizzles. Check the weather outside, it's Rain of Salt.
    On the MTGS primer for lands, they're claiming that the triggered ability on Depths is essentially "continuous" for lack of a better term and that Stifle only stops the initial trigger. i.e, We Stifle the first trigger > resolves > Depths once again sees it has 0 counters...

    Is that accurate?

    EDIT: errata on Oracle seems to suggest the same, as it's apparently a "state trigger". :(

    Double EDIT @ below: I misread your original answer. I see what you're getting at now. In short, Waste the Thespian-turned-Depths AFTER the original Depths is sac'd to Legend rule, but before the Doomsday trigger resolves.
    Last edited by crispymelee; 10-10-2019 at 07:36 PM.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    if you're trying to use Stifle, you have to target the Stage activation to copy [i.e. you can time walk it from becoming Depths for 1 turn per Stifle]. You can't Stifle a Depths sac trigger to any effect (it will show back up once Stifle resolves). You can Wasteland a Stage-gone-Depths with trigger on the stack, and after the land dies you resolve a Depths trigger that has nothing to sac, so it fizzles.

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