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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #3921
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    You make a great case for white, no doubt. I'm too poor and too stubbornly janky to go that route. If I need wrath effects I'll sideboard Aetherize.
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  2. #3922
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I have been testing a list with 3 Force of Negation to great success. I have a huge monthly tomorrow I will post a tournament report and let you guys know how it goes.

    Scroll of Fate will drastically change this deck and push it back to tier S. Goodbye forever TNN that cards simply insane. Fuels Standstill...blinks in Dreadnought...best card this deck has seen in a long time
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  3. #3923
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    We did it boys. 1st place

    I entered the ELD Legacy monthly open today 8/10. Tournament had a solid showing of 28 players...all with a 100% prize payout. I sleeved up UR Dreadstill with 3 Force of Negations I wanted play a 2/2 split between main and side but i went with 3 for this event. We had 5 rounds of swiss...this was my first tournament in a few months. Here were the matchups as followed in normal rounds

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 True-Name Nemesis
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Standstill
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Force of Will
    2 Force of Negation
    4 Stifle
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Wasteland
    4 Island

    1 Force of Negation
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Spell Pierce
    3 Dismember
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Abrade
    1 Hydroblast

    2-1 UW Show and tell/Omniscience
    1-2 RB Reanimator (Seriously this matchup is super difficult I feel)
    2-1 GRB Rock w/ Wrenn and Six
    2-1 Mono Red Goblins
    ID:

    So that was 3-1-1 overall good for 6th place heading into top 8... here's the matchups I got for T8

    2-0 Storm
    2-0 Miracles (Seriously I think im 15-1 vs this deck in the past year?)
    FINALS 2-1 Reanimator (We got there!)

    Some thoughts for you guys about the new list:

    -Force of Negation was an absolute house. It felt unfair in so many matchups having multiple FoWs to disrupt opponents strategies. I will NEVER not sleeve up some number of them in this deck from now on. Cards busted. EE is basically an answer I've put in to deal with Wrenn and Six. So far it's been really good for me at dealing with him.
    - I'll touch base with you guys in the upcoming weeks about the new artifact ....so far I think it's at least a 3x in the main but might be 4x. Cards SUPER busted here.


    https://ibb.co/2chDZ0b (Playmat link)
    Overall 1st place and a champion playmat + 260$ Credit.
    Back on top where we belong boys!
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  4. #3924
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Nice work! How did you end up beating gobbos? Was it the Sol Land stompy or Vial?

  5. #3925
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    He was classic Vial variant...g1 he got me pretty good with just a controlling hand multiple Ports....G2 I brought in Dismembers and all my removal and he just couldn't get in there on me. Dreadnought finished him in g2 and g3.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  6. #3926
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Nice work!!! Torpor Orb is also great against goblins.

  7. #3927
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    New list boys post Commander 2019 getting released:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Scroll of Fate
    4 Standstill
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    2 Force of Negation
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Wasteland
    4 Island

    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Spell Pierce
    3 Dismember
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Abrade
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Force of Negation

    Not sure if 3 or 4 is correct. We'll have to wait and see to find out.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  8. #3928
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Rood View Post
    Not sure if 3 or 4 is correct. We'll have to wait and see to find out.
    I snapped up 3x more Scrolls this morning, since I already had to Commander deck ordered.

    Since you are the "Resident expert" on 'Naughts (I haven't seen Yan in forever and you guys are the only ones I know still jamming in general), how do you feel about other splash colors, besides Red?

    Specifically Black, to access Discard. Or White, to access little Teferi. Or is the Red sideboard plan just too good to give up?
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  9. #3929
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    If we splash black, would Death's Shadow be an option? I like the idea of massive threats going into the red zone. In that way, Delver can be dropped because it would be the worst threat.

    4x Death's Shadow
    4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4x Street Wraith
    2x Scroll of Fate
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Stifle
    3x Daze
    4x Force
    4x Thoughtseize
    3x Fatal Push
    1x Dismember
    3x Standstill

    20 lands (8-10 fetch, 3 duals including Watery Grave, 2 basics, 4 Wastelands, 1-3 Factory)

    EDIT: With a lower emphasis on Factories we could easily sideboard Winter Orbs as well, which I think is pretty good against the bigger control decks.
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    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  10. #3930
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    @H
    Red is a fairly simple, linear color where you'd just auto-include Scroll b/c the card is just that good. Red doesn't really have cards that can unlock anything beyond Scroll being good (though that may not be necessary). There is also the little positional issue that Hydroblast is everywhere so you probably shouldn't be looking for higher-costed payoff cards (like Chandra, ToD) in that color. Rood's list from this past weekend builds around that constraint and we see that enemy Hydroblast would be a rather poor card to bring in, so blue opponents were likely working with a 13 card sideboard across the board.

    Black is dubious. While it has all these cool kill spells, they don't really get you closer to making Dreadnoughts...yet you'd probably have to dilute your deck with them to cover for Thoughtseize - this begs the question of why you don't just play Shadow. Lazav is a trap card which doubles down on the previous problem where not only did you have to overcome the dilution of strategy, but you're adding another card (Lazav) which really forces you to need 2x Dreadnought hits (whereas in red 1 hit is lethal). You end up pushing games to go longer with incoherent strategies.

    Black is also the most creative, in terms of brewing...but Lotus Petals builds are kinda out b/c Confidant is a little sketchy atm. While you could build UB Standstill, there's not much reason to have Dreadnought in your maindeck; you'd just have some Scrolls maindeck and Karn [-2] wish for the 1x Nought in your board (which you probably wouldn't need). The Karn here makes more sense as UB is so bad against Chalice that the [+1] would have much higher value. If we're talking about maximizing UB Scroll face-down stuff, there are certainly some good options, but this is incredibly deep and janky.

    Green is similar to black with the deep jank face-down brewing, but there's a much higher stress on the deck to pass the 'dies to Goyf' test. Nissa, Vital Force would be a helluva top end, but it's a little harder to get there.

    White has been discussed some above.

    @Mr. Safety Street Wraith is bad. That color combo needs to be creative to answer questions; turbo-linear is the wrong direction. Mashing in Grisel with Nought is a far better place to be. Thing in the Ice would likely also be better than Shadow builds.

  11. #3931
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I snapped up 3x more Scrolls this morning, since I already had to Commander deck ordered.

    Since you are the "Resident expert" on 'Naughts (I haven't seen Yan in forever and you guys are the only ones I know still jamming in general), how do you feel about other splash colors, besides Red?

    Specifically Black, to access Discard. Or White, to access little Teferi. Or is the Red sideboard plan just too good to give up?
    Reds just convenient because Bolt fits what this deck wants to achieve so well. Having a removal spell that can also clock your opponent is just a great tool. Black IMO is the second best option...Moreso because of Fatal Push's synergy with Standstill as a clearer. Dark Confidant is also an option.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  12. #3932
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I'm a bit hesitant on Scroll of Fate, so people, sell me on it. Here's my issue - don't you just run out of Dreadnoughts for it to be as useful? Or are you using it to put anything face down as a 2/2? Forgive my rustiness.

    -Matt
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  13. #3933
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    I'm a bit hesitant on Scroll of Fate, so people, sell me on it. Here's my issue - don't you just run out of Dreadnoughts for it to be as useful? Or are you using it to put anything face down as a 2/2? Forgive my rustiness.

    -Matt
    -Puts things into play under a Standstill in a way Vial canít. It does the Dreadnought thing, but more importantly it is hostile to the kind of bad deckbuilding a card like Vial forces you into (high creature count).
    -It self-corrects (puts redundant copies into play), which Vial canít do (repeat Vial draws are cancer). It also allows you to ditch a Standstill or Daze or Land when they arenít useful.
    -No matter what itís dumping into play on opponent EoT, itís gonna chunk down enemy PWs after exhausting instant-speed resources.

    It is a mistake to think that you tap this, put a Dreadnought face-down and attack/flip immediately into open mana. You dump whatever into play and force opponents to kill unknown cards for fear that theyíre all Dreadnoughts. You really have no incentive to flip Dreadnoughts over until damage or deathtouch would be put on it. Itís the best kind of blackmail.

    You also get to do something Dreadnought hasnít been able to do since around 2011: play basically no creatures around Dreadnought and instead pack wraths.

  14. #3934
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    It is a mistake to think that you tap this, put a Dreadnought face-down and attack/flip immediately into open mana. You dump whatever into play and force opponents to kill unknown cards for fear that theyíre all Dreadnoughts. You really have no incentive to flip Dreadnoughts over until damage or deathtouch would be put on it. Itís the best kind of blackmail.
    While it might indeed be a trap, this does indeed make me think of White, for Teferi, Time Raveler since it forces opponents to play directly into the strength of what you outline above. They simply won't know if that is a 'Naught or not and if you then resolve Teferi, they will have to remove the Manifest Token if possible in their own turn, or take the risk. That also makes the EOT Scroll play (with an actual 'Naught) much stronger. Teferi also prevents them cracking your Standstill in your own end step, for example, which was something some people do the mitigate an resolved Standstill. Granted, it's been years since I played Standstill, so I'm not sure the prevalent thought on this line now.

    I guess I am imagining that sort of Dreadstill deck as something more like UW Landstill, but with 'Naught and Scroll, rather than the Tempo deck that this usually is.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  15. #3935
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    I'm a bit hesitant on Scroll of Fate, so people, sell me on it. Here's my issue - don't you just run out of Dreadnoughts for it to be as useful? Or are you using it to put anything face down as a 2/2? Forgive my rustiness.

    -Matt
    Cards just pure gas. Enables the combo...allows you to play a Standstill into ANY board state then blink in Dreadnought under it. Also makes endless 2/2 Zombie army to clock with Delver/Factory. Its the best new tool this decks gained since almost the decks conception. It will become a Staple.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  16. #3936
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Some quick cost analysis on Scroll of Fate & cards that come out in Commander sets:

    Teferi's Protection (Comm 17) - a card that is ostensibly unplayable in every way, and now quite directly compares as a 2 mana too much Veil of Summer, sits at ~$40.00. The lowest it has ever been was in the ~$12-15 range.

    Scroll of Fate is being sold for ~$3. It's basically a face-down strategy's Mishra's Worshop. The most closely related card (Ill. Mask, RL) is sitting around ~$150 for white border. Other cards include Torpor Orb at $5 and Sundial at $4. The price isn't going to get better.

    Some hilarious totally unrelated Comm 19 detritus (hover-overs won't work for a few weeks probably):
    K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth at ~$20 (to be fair, I kinda want this one to work, but it's just isn't going to. I'm pretty okay with that though b/c K'rrik is a dumb name)
    Dockside Extortionist at ~$15
    Tempt with Discovery at ~$4

    Scroll of Fate may actually have the largest price mismatch in in terms of playability:price, an oddly enough it breaks the trend of ridiculous price without playability.

    Ofc, you could always hop on the Dream Chisel bandwagon which hangs around $2-3, but has recently spiked to around [a very temporary] $8. How these people have never read the $0.25 Obscuring Aether, I'll never know.

    Edit: oh also we have to mention all format all-star Ixidor, Reality Sculptor who has shot up to about $10! Someone should tell these fine folks about hiding crap like this in your mana base; see also Safe Haven and Endless Sands (p.s. the last one is a Desert. Desertcycling is an existing mechanic that will come back at 1-2 cost given enough time).

  17. #3937
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    That deep spec is Tocatli.. :D Come Aug 23rd it's UWTecate Time..

  18. #3938
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Scroll is out on mtgo if you playtest there. Card is busted.

    Hard to say what optimal colors will be, but even the UW rough draft performed well in diffuse construction (to see what works). The most important thing is that, running Dreadnoughts basically by themselves (as creature suite) + wrath is viable again. Secondary inference is that Karn should be seriously considered as a 2x maindeck in any color build. Ashiok in the board is another recommendation.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    That's not a real build unfortunately. Cantripping into needing to hit 2x with Dreadnought plan isn't effective. You can ask ewlandon what exactly he faced, but it's almost assuredly a mix of combo, Chalice, and died to Back to Basics. Vision Charm certainly becomes much better in the context of Scroll of Fate, but this build can't handle any board presence and the CA engine (Narset) both plays into that weakness while being unable to find Dreadnoughts.

    You see this issue in Death's Shadow decks without Delver, where they can cantrip all they want b/c they're only finding a losing strategy (low threat counts that, even if found, will never connect). You're also kinda not allowed to play pseudo-Delver decks with super cantrip totals into "I have no way to do anything to threaten an opposing Narset if you have a single removal."

    These two-shot Dreadnought decks also have significant problems with winning after something as simple as Surgical on Dreadnought (any discard spell from a fair deck is probably game). The Death's Shadow comparison here (with or without Delver) is that they kind of lose on the spot to Chalice x=1 b/c they'll never win with 3 Gurmags. Now Shadow can fix this by borrowing years-old UB Dreadnought tricks [proliferate; sorry but this and JVP and Stubborn Denial and cmc 1/3/5 structure are all Dreadnought-discovered], whereas you're kind of stuck bringing in Surgical to beat Surgical as Dreadnought. A quick note on Contentious Plan: you shouldn't play sorcery proliferate into auto-loss to Warping Wail; play Steady Progress and maintain 1/3/5 structure.

    ^So when you're playing UB (or bad UB, i.e. mono-blue) you have to be much more aware of answering knowable situations with deck structure - as in before it happens to you. The point of this detour is that the [should-be] UB list is definitely missing 3 SB slots of Teferi's Realm/Steady Progress, needs creative space (-4 Preordain), probably has to cut Ponder for space (if not though, has to be Portent b/c Narset and Leo exist), and really needs to invest in having more play vs Vial decks (Torpor Orb somewhere). On the Torpor Orb stuff, you really do need this angle to convert Vision Charm into win %. Scroll of Fate is huge game ofc, but the deck really needs to heavily investigate cutting Delver (this would be a large time investment; moreso b/c you'd need to possess grand mastery of Dreadnought and rules of the game to generate a correct answer to the Delver question). There'd also be a large amount of side-questions including Standstill/Confidant/Tasigur/Grisel/Last Hope/Shadow vs something more conventional like Dead of Winter, all largely as ways to get you to gamestates where Karn can be in the maindeck (opens SB space away from proliferate).

    A quick note on Narset + Scroll, the reveal is a fairly horrific drawback b/c you lose lots of equity on playing the "which one is the Dreadnought game" - this is a key skill to playing face-down, and is highly unintuitive. You don't have the CA, so you're gonna find a cantrip, and that's gonna find maybe a Dreadnought; but you'd be forcing opponents into more correct lines of play because of Vision Charm being in your deck. Your board interaction would have been too anemic that you can't really afford the phasing time-walks, and you've 100% forced Jace into the correct line of never stop making [generally crappy] plays of nonstop unsummons to simply identify possibilities of Dreadnoughts. This in turn means that the 2/2 you play face-down afterwards has to attack JTMS which is a highly-losing line vs Snapcaster block-durdling and wasting your ability to threaten life total. This paragraph will not make much sense to those who don't understand the face-down subgame.

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