[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[Fox]

My thought on Remand was that people will naturally target the Stifle, not the Dreadnought, to get the 2-for-1. If I remand my own Stifle, I will likely have enough mana to re-cast it in the mid-game, all the while drawing an extra card. Arcane Denial does get me more cards, but it doesn't get me back the one card I really want (Stifle.) Remand is much better at countering something an opponent does as well, because if they can't re-cast it due to mana-denial (huh, who would do that?) it is essentially a Time Walk. Maybe too cute, but the theory is sound even if the application might fall flat IRL. Also, weren't you also against Vendilion Clique because it could draw them into mana you were already denying? Arcane Denial does that but instead gives them 2 free draws, all the while not threatening 3 life a turn like Clique.

Regarding Vapor Snag: it may not be as effective at dealing with threats as Lightning Bolt or Swords to Plowshares, but it puts it back into their hand where I can have an opportunity to counter it. The time-walk effect can be very good as well, considering I should be denying them mana. It still does the most important thing as well: get things out of the way for Delver/Snap/Factory to beat face. I really see this as my best option considering I don't have Volcanics, or any other blue dual. You can make an argument for shocklands, especially with a fast clock and I'm already using Dismember, but do I gain enough to outweigh the risk?Another way to build it would be to play Mutavault/Spellstutter Sprite. It's not terribly fast, but it's definitely relevant in a fast format like legacy for countering things.

I still have a ton of open-ended questions:

1) Would Ratchet Bomb be ok maindeck? Solves the Chalice@1-turn-1-game-1 problem.
2) Should I play Misdirection maindeck when I don't have Forces? Doesn't counter things but is excellent against discard.
3) Is Dispel good enough to indlude in the 75? Fights counter wars like a champ, but so does Pierce.
4) Jace the Mind Sculptor? Main/side/no? Seems very good as an alternative win-condition and a 5th card advantage engine to supplement Standstill.
5) Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker sideboard? I want the effect, is Revoker better? Needle can shut off fetches, but that wasn't why I boarded it in usually. It was for Aether Vial, PW's, Pernicious Deed, equipment. Revoker does the same, but also attacks for 2, however doesn't get in under Standstill t1 like Needle. Needle is a liability against Chalice decks, and Chalice decks from my experience have tons of activated abilities.

So with Arcane Denial (since we're talking about mono-blue) Standstill is the most powerful effect that can win non-combo games, and with SCM in your list we're going longer which puts the emphasis on card advantage down the stretch. Denial is a lot closer to functioning like a 5th pseudo-copy of Standstill, and you get the option to do things like cast Standstill -> they counter -> counter own Standstill, still draw 3 (more likely though to cast own Dreadnought, hold priority and target it with Denial). The interactive mode of Denial also needs to be looked at as counter target card advantage engine, next upkeep trigger-trigger, draw your card -> Stifle their draw 2. So it's basically slow-cycling for + get an untap step + then Stifle/SCM-Stifle is now a hard counter. Worst case you're saying "I'll slow-cycle this card, and I'd rather you took 2 blind draws rather than have a card like JTMS." Unlike Clique, you aren't trying to draw them into mana; casting this as an unsupported counter [that would draw them into lands] should generally mean the opponent is casting an intolerable 3+ cmc card, which means the Stifle/Wasteland plan has probably passed.

Remand is able to be fired off liberally, but it only delays problems and it doesn't really have the ability to get you back into a game (not without 5+ lands on the table, which is what you'd need for card advantage via stack baiting). I think Snare probably does a better job of keeping something off the table into drop Standstill if that's the other thing you were going for with Remand.

Vapor Snag is one of those cards where you probably have to combo off of the life loss to get away with it (red cards), certainly when running so many copies of Snag. I don't see a mono-blue deck as being able to mount enough pressure to take advantage of that bounce window, but on the flip side it makes it really hard for opponents to remove your Factories and deny Standstill opportunities. The card probably has a net negative effect on ability to win games compared to effects like Set Adrift/Submerge which return to top of deck; you're the one actually playing it though so you'd have to test out comparative efficacy.

1) I don't see enough reason to maindeck Ratchet Bomb without a synergy-based list using cards like Reality Shift, because Bomb doesn't help win games. I think you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that win % goes up if that slot isn't Ill. Mask or Torpor Orb. Mask is a much better way to defeat Chalice, because those decks generally don't beat resolved 12/12s.
2) Misdirection is fine, it'll be either amazing or terrible. It becomes more important to play more proactively to bait opponent countermagic so that Misd. functions like FoW. The most severe change in playstyle pattern will occur when facing Reanimate/Animate Dead decks, lines become very unintuitive.
3) Dispel is reasonable...I'd probably rather have Snare if we're talking about maindeck or Divert if we're talking about SB. Given your list is mono-blue you also have to look at cards like Annul, Invasive Surgery, Hydroblast/Flash Flood, or ramp up the mana denial plan with Mind Bend (this would be on top of the usual Flusters and Surgicals). I think Dispel is probably best against a deck trying to bring in Pyroblast, in which case I might want Hydroblast/Flash Flood (and as a bonus you get better win % vs red decks).
4) I'm not a huge fan of JTMS, but the card is fine. I'd be a little concerned as a mono-blue player about artifacts like Needle/Revoker though. If you were UR, I think you absolutely take Chandra-ToD over JTMS any day.
5) I really dislike Pithing Needle; you're already a Factory deck which should be naturally good vs PWs so I'd rather have Teferi's Response if that's what I'm concerned about. It doesn't deal with Vial, but that card also hoses DnT, especially with SCM. Dead draws like Needle will always be high risk/high reward. Revoker is pretty bad, but if you have a Dreadnought coming out it still provides pressure when followed up by Standstill.

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@Fallen Empire your list has some pretty significant card disadvantage problems between E. Tutor, Dreadnought, and Petal. We play 12/12s so that we don't need to play equipment (otherwise we'd be cutting Dreads for SFM). While white removal is garbage compared to Bolt vs opponent life total, there is this very fringe idea that Dreadnought + StP = 4x Healing Salve and somehow that is ok enough....maybe. You definitely picked up on the most important thing with those colors: you can't win games of legacy by picking up Tundra [Daze].

The UW Dreadnought deck is playable (I went 6-3 at Seattle GP, having played it extensively for the better half of a year), but the key to white cards is capitalizing on no-skill "derp I win b/c you can't anymore." For me deck construction began with Enlightened Tutor, because it finds the biggest cheese-a-win artifacts/enchantments out of the board (RiP/Canonist) and the best one-card wincon in 2x Mentor. The reason you can run Mentor is you no longer have to play Hushwing Gryff because they printed Tocatli Honor Guard, which not only freed up the 3-drop slot, but it also gave us a playable, proactive 2-drop (these don't exist in UW if you're not playing SFM or Thalia; neither of which help Dreadnoughts).

So Mentor, Tocatli [thus Dreadnoughts], E. Tutor main, and SB cheese in a Tundra deck that can't play Daze, and a deck that's automatically not playing Delver (too many lands and artifact/echantments). Without Delver, there's no playable 1-drops (Mother of Runes is awful), so you're playing Factory. Finish the deck from there is the challenge.

My emphasis was complete synergy around a premise that tutoring to top of deck either wins or isn't card disadvantage (this was more important pre-ban with Czech Pile spamming Hymns and being quite poor vs enchantments). My list looked like this:

Lands (20)
Flooded Strand x4
Polluted Delta x3
Island x2
Plains x1
Tundra x2
Karakas x1
Wasteland x4
Factory x3

Creatures (11)
Dreadnought x4
Tocatli Honor Guard x2
JVP x2
Mentor x2
Jeskai Infiltrator x1

Spells (22)
FoW x4
BS x4
Stifle x4
Plow x4
E. Tutor x3
Reality Shift x2
Noxious Revival x1

Other
Standstill x1
Search for Azcanta x1
Aether Vial x1
Illusionary Mask x1
Powder Keg x1
Cursed Scroll x1
Mastery of the Unseen x1


SB
Surgical x1
C. Priest x2
Teferi's Realm x1
Canonist x1
RiP x1
Cursed Totem x1
Torpor Orb x1
Disempower x1
Sacred Ground x1
Divert x2
Misd x2
Isochron Scepter x1 (white is a dumb color, and it needed a card to reflect that) - and yes it was foil FTV.

Aside from boring old Swords to Plowshares, which you have to run since you don't have Daze, everything in this deck works together in highly convoluted ways. The end product is actually pretty low variance if the pilot can assess the implications of all the possible interactions, identify when to abandon Wasteland for a get to 4 mana plan, and generally avoid using Stifle to put Dreadnought into play. I don't think Dreadnought really competes in legacy by playing normal magic (exception for UR due to burn spells); there's a lot of pressure to identify and exploit rules in the most disruptive way possible to those playing normal legacy, without going A+B vertical combo.

[Mr. Safety]

Needle/revoker are not for pws, they are for depths/stage, vial, equips, knight of the reliquary, maze of ith, lion's eye diamond, griselbrand. There is some overlap, and I wouldn't hesitate to stop jace or liliana, but the argument is to further stifle non-land mana sources or activated abilities of resolved creatures. Without hard removal it seems necessary. Needle can hit lands and most things, but is 1 and doesn't work with chalice. Revoker hits non-land mana and creatures, dodges chalice, and attacks for 2. Pros and cons of both.

[Fallen_Empire]

In a long grindy match I can see the utility of stp, but what creatures are we worried about stp'ing if we have a turn 1 or 2 12/12 trample?
My thought process is that we jam delver, TNN, Copter's, Factories etc to put immediate pressure on our opponents life total and overload the removal threats against us (thus the inclusion of the 4x petals, a tutorable jitte, and if need be unstable mutation). Is there a consensus on how many instants a deck with brainstorm should have that runs delver? I've intrigued by mentor and Tocatli and plan on studying your list.. Thanks for the input

[Fox]

Needle/revoker are not for pws, they are for depths/stage, vial, equips, knight of the reliquary, maze of ith, lion's eye diamond, griselbrand. There is some overlap, and I wouldn't hesitate to stop jace or liliana, but the argument is to further stifle non-land mana sources or activated abilities of resolved creatures. Without hard removal it seems necessary. Needle can hit lands and most things, but is 1 and doesn't work with chalice. Revoker hits non-land mana and creatures, dodges chalice, and attacks for 2. Pros and cons of both.

So really quickly, Needle doesn't stop LED; that's a mana ability.

We run Wasteland/Stifle for Depth/Stage/Maze. KotR costs 3 mana (Daze it), is smaller than Dreadnought, doesn't trample, and is run in decks that will kill their own guys (assumes you have Misdirection effects). Decks with Grisel should have pretty unfavorable matchups against us b/c they can be disrupted; I'd focus on not letting it get into play or combination of Stifle draw 7 or throw a 12 power attacker at them while they're probably at <12 life.

Vial is certainly annoying, but those decks don't really do anything in the face of Torpor Orb. While you run Factory and Mask, Null Rod is probably more likely to win a game than Needle. I don't see Needle naming Vial as a winning card against a deck that has Flickerwisp. DnT isn't really a deck you want to have a grindy/interactive game with, you get Dreadnought down and have to beat 4x StP and 3-4x Flickerwisp; Torpor Orb them and you only care about 4 cards in their deck. This is one of those matchups where you get ahead by sticking to your plan in the most punishing way possible via Torpor Orb and Teferi's Response while boarding out 2-3 Standstills.

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@Fallen_Empire in general with Delver, the best numbers are around 27 cards that flip it. UR Dreadstill is under that number, but it doesn't really matter because they got a threat down under a Standstill; otherwise Delver is just opponent either discards target removal spell or will eventually lose 3-6 life, at which point they're in 1-shot Dreadnought territory. If you're playing UW, you're not really killing people with aggro damage so much as doing a thing that generates card advantage which eventually becomes the cause of death. If you're trying to buff creatures, you either need more creatures [Delver gets worse] to power Copters or to attach effects to, or you play SFM/Bskull/Jitte.

[Mr. Safety]

Torpor orb makes sense; but I can use revoker on lion's eye diamond. That is a reason to consider it.

Regardless, you have me convinced. I'll board a torpor orb.

[Rood]

Has anyone considered the new Blue Merfolk for Show/Tell and Reanimator hate? Mistcaller. Seems awesome especially followed by t2 standstill

[aslidsiksoraksi]

I'm interested in hearing more about the UW version - I like the UR version's aggression, but the UW seems to have more flexibility with the E-tutor toolbox...

Couple questions -
1. why only 1 standstill?
2. why so many MD tutor targets - some seem very niche. cursed scroll, for example. i can see the uses of each, but maybe more general consistency might be better?
3. it seems like this list has a lot less countermagic - no daze, no pierce, etc. is there room for more? what is the thinking behind leaving it out?

Thanks for your help and work on such an interesting deck!

[Fox]

Couple questions -
1. why only 1 standstill?
2. why so many MD tutor targets - some seem very niche. cursed scroll, for example. i can see the uses of each, but maybe more general consistency might be better?
3. it seems like this list has a lot less countermagic - no daze, no pierce, etc. is there room for more? what is the thinking behind leaving it out?

1.This isn't really a Standstill deck, it runs Factory b/c it can't run Delver and there are no other 1 drops worth playing. So we hide a 1 drop creature in a colorless-producing land, which is going to drive deckbuilding decisions.

The more in-depth answer:

While Dreadnought decks are powerful enough to win games of legacy, they suffer from consistency; you play these decks b/c you like Dreadnought and it's an entirely different deck. I would classify all tier 2 decks as "bad" (powerful, but inconsistent), but there's a big difference between playing a "bad" deck and making a crappy decision to play an arbitrarily worse deck. So if I wanted more Standstills I'd play UW Standstill (a deck I'm currently testing since Teferi came out)...but let's be honest, if you're playing [normal legacy] Tundra without Counterbalance (i.e. Blade, Standstill, Helmerator) you're playing a garbage deck because you're choosing to play Tundra in a manner that doesn't generate the highest win % (also these can't beat CB in a Tundra mirror). I wouldn't consider another copy of Standstill with UW Dreadnought unless Counterbalance got banned. You could add a copy of Counterbalance to this list and try to cheese people out of games, but it would make you a scumbag.

2a. Cursed Scroll hits 2 toughness, Powder Keg hits zero cmc (different category but JVP hits 2 power, Factory blocks as a 3/3). This deck plays Reality Shift. These cards do other important things (kill tokens, murder Mother of Runes, troll certain strategies and PWs, create on-board value where discard would attempt to take it away, etc). You have a lot of freedom with E. Tutor, but the key is that running it needs to either cheese an immediate win (Helmerator) or not actually be card disadvantage. Dreadnoughts don't usually interact favorably with 'derp I win' cards, so alternative targets have to involve cards with fairly specific implications like Sundial of the Infinite and Parallax Tide. You're post is really open-ended @aslidsiksoraksi on a very specific subset of cards I chose to combine with the 'solved' aspects of the UW Dreadnought shell [my previous post]...card choices not directly required to justify the premise of the shell, like Cursed Scroll, are a subset of many cards that generate multiple desired effects. Maybe this analogy will work: Cursed Scroll is part of a protein rather than a free-floating amino acid, whereas in say RUG Delver Pierce vs Forked Bolt are just random amino acids floating around by themselves.

2b. Mastery of the Unseen is an unforgivably terrible card to build around, but if it gets going it's insanely hard to beat. The only way you can justify it is E. Tutor giving consistent access to the singleton when needed. The upside on this card is pretty much the entire reason white is even worth considering with Dreadnought.
2c. Azcanta is good when Standstill is bad. When you Wasteland Azcanta under a Sacred Ground, the enchantment comes back to play. Azcanta is most often left unflipped to see what's on top before we draw it as we move into the decision tree of mill/self-Shift/activate Mastery.
2d. Aether Vial is a busted and uninteractive magic card by itself, it does the Dreadnought trick, it creates impossible scenarios to tag a Dreadnought without removal (it's a colorless Hymn targeting blue cards), it beats Chalice (I mean it can, and it's usually left on one), we have a dearth of 1-drop threats, and so on.
2e. Illusionary Mask is too complex to be discussed succinctly, sufficed to say it's extremely important and we have a very easy time finding it.
2f. Standstill is low opportunity cost value. Also (in conjunction with JVP), we randomly get to ignore nonsense like Ensnaring Bridge between Mentor and face-down casting. The more you have of this card the worse your Loam and Vial matchups get; these are decks you actively want to play against.

It's important to understand the high degree to which every card in this list is meant to interact with every other card that could be drawn. The deck is made of lines of play due to the sheer variety of complementary and distinct interactions and workarounds which is only done because the premise is you like Dreadnoughts, enjoy piloting a competitive deck with them, and just really love helping people lose games of legacy in ways they never thought were possible. I don't think you can play normal legacy (increase consistency with Ponder for example) and be effective with Dreadnought; you lose creative space for solution and engine variety. At this point your deck stops winning b/c you tried to play exactly like a normal legacy deck but handicapped yourself with 2-for-1s.

3. StP is a necessary evil that buys more time than other countermagic. What the deck is doing is recreating the cascade-esque mechanic in a very backwards manner; rules are being subverted such that the classification of what constitutes a must-counter spell shifts rapidly. Plow tells opponents to waste their next turn casting another guy while we're off doing something nefarious or murdering PWs with Factories; time walking opponents is an effect we can always count on wanting (this is true of any UW deck). These are the slots where permission would have to go, but Plow gives more win % here. Some of that win% comes from option to gain 12 life.

[Xod]

Went 4-0 on Friday with my usual decklist and this side:
1 Alpine Moon
1 Sudden Demise
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrade
1 Commandeer
1 Misdirection
1 Divert
1 Teferi's Realm
1 Teferi's Response
1 Torpor Orb
1 True-Name Nemesis

2-0 Steel Stompy
2-0 Aggro Loam
2-0 Miracles
2-1 Steel Stompy

Must admit that my openingshands where way better than the couple of events before, where I went twice 2-2, punting 2 games due to bad decissions, bad (played) stand stills and a lot of mulligans. Mostly by playing badly.

Still feel good about the deck, and it's very similar to RUG Delver in the way that when you make 1 mistake, it will probably cost you the game.

[Fox]

Surprised by the miracles 2-0; did they just not find or resolve Counterbalance? Other than that, I'd say that the other two archetypes seen represent fairly favorable matchups. How many Standstills did you cut vs Steel Stompy? I usually go down to 1-2 iirc.

[Xod]

Last time I also went 2-0 against Miracles, I find that matchup quite ok. I don't know around your corners, but here, new Miracles only play 0 to 2 Counterbalance (more 2 than none) We win with standstill and mishra's. And with my build I have 3 TNN post board and 2 TNN pre-board, which helps alot. The dreadnoughts I board out, and use the stifles as landkills or against terminus.

The first game I cut 3 Standstills, the last game, I cut them all together. Along with some Daze/Forces depending on the draw/play. Put in Alpine Moon (against Waste or Mishra's), 2 abrade, torpor orb (mostly for a Nought), teferi package and a TNN. Cursed myself of deciding the Sudden Demise over Pyroclasm before I left for the evening

[Rood]

This deck thrashes Miracles Fox if you are on the TNN build. You just use Standstills To break them in that matchup. They actually have no prayer if you resolve one.

@ xod nice man. Whats your maindeck look like? Glad to see you bought in to TNN

[Xod]

Maindeck:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Grim Lavamancer

3 Lightning Bolt
1 Wild Slash
1 Izzet Charm
1 Trickbind
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

1 Illusionary Mask

4 Standstill

1 Mountain
2 Island
4 Mishra's Factories
3 Volcanic island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland

was the same as 2 pages back, except -1 spell pierce +1 trickbind (the trickbind does so much work)

[Mr. Safety]

I'm still messing around with my budget version, now with a red splash. Steam Vents aren't ideal with Daze, but I was experiencing 4-lifeloss in almost every game from Dismember already. Fling has been incredible, along with Bolts and Lavamancer, speeding the deck up by at least 1/2 a turn. It's a testament to how powerful this core strategy is that it can be run so budget but still be very good.

Uber-budget list:

4x Delver of Secrets
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Grim Lavamancer

4x Brainstorm
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stifle
2x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
4x Daze
4x Standstill
2x Counterspell
1x Fling
1x Trickbind

3x Flooded Strand
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
4x Island
1x Mountain
4x Wasteland
3x Mishra's Factory

Sideboard
3x Misdirection
2x Pyroblast
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Torpor Orb
2x Sower of Temptation
3x Smash to Smithereens
2x Surgical Extraction


I know that TNN is very good in this deck, and it isn't a budget reason that I'm avoiding it. I just want Snapcaster + Bolt/Fling. I am still trying to decide if I can afford 3x Factory without a 3rd dual land. Most of the lists posted had 3x Volcanic. I would love to play Spirebluff Canal, it's a fantastic dual land for a low-land deck, but it's a non-bo with Daze. Curious what people suggest (other than I need to get the 4th Tarn, 3x Volcanic, and 4x Force of Will, lol.)

[Fox]

Doesn't look like there are any BFZ-style duals that could ETB untapped if you have 2+ basics (with subtype Island/Mountain). Best bet is get a single Volc and use Steam Vents to bring count up to 3 while you slowly look to get Volc #2 and 3. I would stay away from non-Island nonbasics. There shouldn't be too many decks out there that pressure life total without ability to kill a dual (mostly a UR Delver thing), so you should generally be assembling basics first anyways. I'd definitely run 4x Tarn before any other Fetches added, and in your list I'd either go up to 22 land or cut a basic Island for Tarn #4 as the first step towards fixing mana issues without Volcs.

[Mr. Safety]

Doesn't look like there are any BFZ-style duals that could ETB untapped if you have 2+ basics (with subtype Island/Mountain). Best bet is get a single Volc and use Steam Vents to bring count up to 3 while you slowly look to get Volc #2 and 3. I would stay away from non-Island nonbasics. There shouldn't be too many decks out there that pressure life total without ability to kill a dual (mostly a UR Delver thing), so you should generally be assembling basics first anyways. I'd definitely run 4x Tarn before any other Fetches added, and in your list I'd either go up to 22 land or cut a basic Island for Tarn #4 as the first step towards fixing mana issues without Volcs.

How do you propose to get to land 22, ie what would you cut?

EDIT: It should be noted that I haven't run into mana issues as of yet, but I know they will show up eventually.

[Fox]

How do you propose to get to land 22, ie what would you cut?

If you want 22 land, probably has to be Fling unfortuantely. You want to stay at 10 pieces of countermagic. Probably get more value out of testing flex slot (Fling) by replacing Island with Tarn.

[Rood]

Dreadstill triumphs again. Yesterday took my revamped list to our local Legacy scene and went 4-0. List was as followed

4x Nought
4x Delver
3x True-Name Nemesis

4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Spell Snare
4x FoW
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Standstill
1x Torpor Orb
4x Stifle

4x Scalding Tarn
2x Polluted Delta
2x Volcanic Island
5x Island
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland

SB:
4x Spell Pierce
2x Misdirection
3x Surgical Extraction
2x REB
1x Abrade
2x Dismember
1x Vapor Snag

R1: Death/Taxes
G1: T2 Nought followed up by FoW/Daze for swords and Flickerwhisp. Thats all she wrote
G2: I get my Volc wasted and never see a colored manasource again
G3: Standstill + ton of countermagic along with Delver/TNN.

R2: Jund Goyf Rock
G1: Standstill on turn 2 followed up by Nought with FoW onto g2.
G2: I land a stifle on his fetch followed up by double Waste. He never gets going

R3: Burn
G1: he finishes me with the uncounterable deal 4 damage on my turn I had lethal.
G2: Im beating him down w Delver when he attempts to bolt I misdirect it to his goblin Guide. TNN comes down
A turn later and gg.
G3: on his lethal turn to kill me staring down 2 Delvers he goes for the Fireblast at 4 life. I Misdirect it to him ftw.

R4: Stoneblade
G1: I make a turn 2 Nought he swords I force. He goes Snapcaster swords. I make another Nought next turn and off to g2. I think I dazed a Jace as well.
G2: I make a horrid misplay and tap out for Torpor Orb when I had Pierce in hand. He goes to activate SFM i bolt which he Forces. I die to Jitte.
G3: Turn 1 Delver into T2 Standstill is pretty strong. He eventually kills it at 11 life I stick a TNN and he never can find an answer because TNN is obsurdly dumb in the MU.

So overall the deck did really well. TNN and Misdirection were awesome for me. Death/Taxes feels like such a swingy MU. I think we're favored though.

[Fallen_Empire]

Fox:

1) How do you like Jeskai Infiltrator? I haven't tried it put am intrigued...
2) I see Torpor Orb in the SB, are you boarding Ill Mask out against Dnt for Torpor Orb because of the flickerwisp bounce?
3) You don't run trickbind in your GP UW list, I've found that usually the stifle not the dreadnought is targeted by force or daze, seems like being unaccountable would have utility am I missing something?
4) I'm thinking of taking tocatli up to 3x from 2x I like her alot, do you think it would be crazy to run her at 3-4x copies?

This deck creates some weird lines and it's great! Tonight against miracles I was mana screwed facing down a Jace, and with 2x wastelands and 1 tundra had to use Mask to put in vanilla TNN's lol, madness dude. So far the victories make the losses worth it.

[Fox]

Fox:

1) How do you like Jeskai Infiltrator? I haven't tried it put am intrigued...
2) I see Torpor Orb in the SB, are you boarding Ill Mask out against Dnt for Torpor Orb because of the flickerwisp bounce?
3) You don't run trickbind in your GP UW list, I've found that usually the stifle not the dreadnought is targeted by force or daze, seems like being unaccountable would have utility am I missing something?
4) I'm thinking of taking tocatli up to 3x from 2x I like her alot, do you think it would be crazy to run her at 3-4x copies?

This deck creates some weird lines and it's great! Tonight against miracles I was mana screwed facing down a Jace, and with 2x wastelands and 1 tundra had to use Mask to put in vanilla TNN's lol, madness dude. So far the victories make the losses worth it.

1) It's quite good, and the blue count is rather important. It's quite enjoyable to attack, put the trigger on the stack after damage, and cast E-Tutor.
2) Nope, I bring in Torpor Orb alongside Mask vs DnT. With E-Tutor you're able to add 4 virtual copies of Torpor Orb on top of 2x Magus of the Torpor Orb (Tocatli).
3) The point of this deck is to bring Dreadnought in face-down or into a Torpor Orb, Stifle targeting the trigger doesn't happen often (unless they tap out and Vial on x=1 is in play). Trickbind could be played, but you'd have to cut removal down to 3x Plow.
4) I wouldn't go above two as that would actively impede Mentor. As discussed previously Tutor/Torpor Orb in the board represents copies #3-6. Versus not-DnT, a common boarding strategy is -1 Tocatli, +1 Torpor Orb.

The TNN play sounds like cheating, you would have needed to activate Mask and put a TNN face-down. Maybe you meant Mentor?