I've been jamming/goldfishing this list and I really like it. It took a few practice games to find out where the tweaks needed to happen, and it is likely still not optimal (but I won't know that until after the 1K/real experience.)
2x Vantress Gargoyle
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
4x Scroll of Fate
4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
2x Dismember
2x Vapor Snag
2x Spell Snare
2x Spell Pierce
3x Standstill
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Mishra’s Factory
4x Flooded Strand
3x Misty Rainforest
7x Island
4x Wasteland
Sideboard
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Sower of Temptation
1x Misdirection
2x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Tormod’s Crypt/Surgical Extraction (not sure yet, leaning towards Crypt)
1x Narset, Parter of Veils
2x Echoing Truth
3x OPEN
Potential Cards for the open slots:
Crucible of Worlds
Pithing Needle
Dismember
Misdirection
Dispel
Vendilion Clique
Torpor Orb
I was on 3 Dismember, but I was flooding out on them. Same with Standstill at 4 copies, so I just jammed a maindeck Jace, which has been great. Gargoyle is fine as a 2-of; it helps to stabilize early against faster threats and can close games quickly once opponents have threshold.
A quick note about closing out games: I have noticed often it's a 1-2 turn swing. Often game wins come out of nowhere where I combine Dreagnought + Factory + 2/2 manifested card for lethal. I upped the countermagic count to the full 12 with a split of Pierce/Snare and I'm very happy with that.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
@crispymelee - Royal Scions doesn‘t seem like a great financial investment. First two abilities feel like a mode you‘d expect on a 1 mana charm. Not a PW that will succeed that well at diverting an opponent‘s attention, also a Pyroblast target. Chandra ToD is the perfect example of what UR wants, it‘s just a large mana investment. Perhaps a better comparison for Scions is simply “why isn‘t this just a Grim Lavamancer?“ You have more hits to get under your own Standstill, ability to shrink a Goyf, able to kill most things which would block a Delver. You‘ve already got Scroll to pseudo-loot away dead cards, then you‘ve Lavamancer to add in 2 points of burn (which is like giving Delver trample, if you‘re killing a potential blocker), and you are transmuting cards in yard into shock (which is like building your own Scion ult). I just don‘t see how tapping down for Scion adds anything you didn‘t already have (or have access to), and that‘s the difference with Chandra; immediate [count to 20 engine] value towards a game-winning ult. Opponents have to react immediately to a ‘value Vortex‘ [Chandra] when you‘re actively counting to 20, whereas Scions can largely be ignored.
My pre-Scroll UR lists always ran 4x Delver and 2x Lavaman, and the only thing you have to do to support that is have a basic mountain (which you‘d kinda need anyways if you were ever considering Scions). I think Lavamancer has also remained a much stronger choice than Gargoyle. When it comes to going big with UR, I don‘t like how much Hydroblast is in the format now (don‘t like idea of putting 4 mana into Chandra to die to 1 mana), so I‘d be looking at Karn. It‘s a fine maindeck choice (randomly hateful, Chalice killer, access to wish-Crypt/Coating/etc...) and goes into the same slots as extra copies of Scroll would.
Couple of matches on stream for you guys to check out. First is Miracle control vs me (Dreadstill) second is BR reanimator
https://youtu.be/UeARgXexIgc
https://youtu.be/3JXl3s7IajA
https://youtu.be/fKkBN165jyc
https://youtu.be/hpUE0G6VoQ0
3-0 today, 8 decks in room were Tezz+Antiquities War, Gobbos, Merfolk, UWr Mentor, 4c Delver, Bomberman, ANT, and manifest destiny.
R1 vs UWr Mentor (2-1): game 1 draw 4 Dreadnoughts, which was fairly comical. Game 2 my 2x Scoll wears opponent's interaction down until they're forced to play a Jace; this play results in a -14 life penalty putting the opponent at 1 and they concede. Game 3 the opponent buckles under the weight of Cursed Scroll early and Scroll of Fate + Mastery later; they ran out of gas after about their 8th removal. Both games 2 and 3 were won against on-board Teferi. Their deck had zero Counterbalance so this isn't an unexpected result.
R2 vs Tezz (2-1): game 1 they have Chalice but it runs into FoW, I make a turn 2 Dreadnought and FoN their E-Bridge. Game 2 they resolve Chalice on 1 and I can't draw anything relevant (have something like 10 live draws possible). Game 3 they don't have Chalice in their opener (or they just lacked a sol land) and they respond to turn 2 Nought with a Strix; this runs into Plow and game ends.
R3 vs Bomberman (2-1): game 1 their Chalice is hit by FoW and they die to turn 2 Nought. Game 2 their turn 1 Chalice x=1 buys some time but it's the second Chalice x=3 that buys them enough time; they had to go for a desperation Karn -> Lattice against Factory beats but even with Standstill I can't draw a single FoW (if Lattice died on the stack, so would they). Game 3 has an interesting opening where opponent is able to get down C. Priest and Salvagers, and draw about 5 cards off Bauble recursion before my turn 2 Ratchet takes care of it. After a StP on CP the Factory and Scroll beats begin and even though they find Auriok #2, it runs into a Humility. Their first 3x Karns were countered and the 4th came too late for them (unable to tap Tomb).
All 3 matches were lost die rolls and there were 2x mull to 6 and 1x mull to 5 today. Strange sets of hands where I actually had reasons to FoW turn 0 Chalices and saw only 1x Teferi today.
@Rood that was some loose Fetching by miracles not scrambling for Plains when they had the chance. Also the whole Fetch a Dual with the Vista. Also siiiiiick FoN pitch FoW vs BR. Only things I saw were missed Standstill trigger vs miracles g2 and against BR game 3 I think it was worth considering leaving 3x Grisel in deck after Surgical given the board state. How many Scroll were you on today?
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Wasteland corrected the error anyhow, based on their 2 Strand punt in an earlier game (failing to understand Stifle) it was likely an honest mistake. Note that Counterbalance reinforces poor play b/c it bails players out of savage punts rather than handing them out well-deserved losses (from which they could learn to improve).
Cursed Scroll gets rid of annoyances like Mother of Runes + Revoker and any flash ambushers vs Factory (or trying to be fancy with C. Priest). It also Trolls walkers and pressures life totals. Decks that sit back and do nothing are quite easily able to kill Dreadnoughts, but they are quite poorly equipped to deal with non-stop Cursed Scroll pressure, especially if you combo it with a stream of 2/2s from Scroll of Fate maintaining low hand size. Also important to point out that Teferi + Scroll insta-kills enemy Mentor.
Last edited by Fox; 10-21-2019 at 06:02 AM.
Where you playing this ?
7 fetchlands
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Scroll of Fate
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
2 Force of Negation
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Brazen Borrower
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Misdirection
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
The deck lists about as many instants than a typical Delver list, but has only half its cantrips. If flipping Delver was an actual issue, I would look at replacing a Spell Snare and a Scroll of Fate for 2 copies of Ponder.
About the deck itself, I think it's pretty good to give it some exposure with what ELD uploads on YouTube. Having watched some of them where the deck is showcased, I think you (Rood?) had a number of those wins thanks to clueless opponents. Which is why I only play "rogue" decks anyway I suppose :-)
Here is what I will sleeve next when I receive my Brazen Borrower and Magmatic Sinkhole:
4 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Mountain
2 Prismatic Vista
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Force of Negation
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Scroll of Fate
2 Spell Pierce
4 Standstill
4 Stifle
2 True-Name Nemesis
Sideboard:
2 Abrade
2 Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft
2 Dismember
1 Flusterstorm
1 Magmatic Sinkhole
2 Misdirection
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
Here's the link where I'll keep the up to date 75: https://deckbox.org/sets/2494824
I don't think anyone at Rood's gamestore gets to blame rogue deck against Dreadstill.
Your colored land count isn't high enough @AngryBacon, it's 2 fewer colored lands than Delver and you're playing a basic Mountain. You can maybe get away with 13 colored sources, but that's the first land total at which I'd consider basic Mountain over Volc (also swapping out Vista to U Fetch). The more color-unstable your manabase is, the more you need to be able to play colorless hands (increase Scroll amount).
I have actually cut TNN from my list for more copies of Scroll of fate... but its fine i guess to 2/2 split. These videos were right before commander 2019. I outplayed a few of my opponents in the matches.. but thats half the battle in magic. People at my store definitely know Dreadstill and what im on.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Yeah, this is what I think as well, but haven't had issues when testing so I got greedy and included the 4 Wasteland as a test I suppose. The Mountain should be a Volcanic Island, but there are a lot of Wasteland and Assassin's Trophy where I play so will see with proper testing.
Do you mean less TNN and more Scroll of Fate?
@AngryBacon Yes Scroll would be easier to cast than TNN [i.e. good substitution given same cmc].
@H the skillsets are somewhat similar to Infect. I think Infect plays a bit closer to Depths. Outside of the Stifle/Daze/Wasteland randomly occurring states [where we have ~2+ land advantage] we don‘t really pick spots to ‘go for it‘ based on opponents‘ turn 2-3 land drop/untapped mana states. Playing Dreadnought is more positionally used for something like duress‘ing removal away from a Delver (this also serves to drain their mana into our next line of play, ideally Standstill). If they fail to answer “duress-Noughts“ then they just die, but the purpose was always to drag them into a subgame of magic where normal legacy rules don‘t work as damage is piling up.
Well, I didn't really mean that Infect and Dreastill are comparable decks, per se, only that your opponent knowing what you are on might not help them when you are a skilled pilot. In fact, it could be just the opposite. Ross' opponents knowing he was on Infect might have helped him and Rood's opponents knowing he is on Dreadnaught might help him too, because they are both so skilled at executing their plan or get the game to states where they can execute their plan far better than their opponent can execute theirs.
Depths operates a similar way, but I was more talking about playstyle rather than actual deck choice.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
@Rood Sorry if this was answered already, thread is getting long and not exactly search-friendly ^^ Just re-watched some older game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbLOqEGTNm0. Any particular reason you didn't turned FiDo face up in G1? You Manifest it around 2 minutes in.
On the subject of practicality, have you all considered a Discord server? I for one think 2 different mediums are more useful and spread to more people, if you want to welcome more people that is. I find direct message easier to manage and to tidy than a 200+ pages forum :-)
On an unrelated note, if some of you are still playing with white, have you thought about Hushbringer?
@ discord:
Call me old, but I just prefer the forum format:
+ information is tracked over time and is "stationary"; you can literally witness this deck's evolution through the years
+ posts can cover multiple responses and link to older material.
That being said, I do have a discord and have tried out a couple different Legacy servers. My issues:
- responses can be very quickly buried into irrelevance.
- searching for specific things feels very difficult (could just be a user issue, I'm new to discord)
- while I'm not aware of any size limit on a discord post, posts relating to legitimate discussion "feel" shorter to me. This has been true in discord groups I've tried for other games I'm active in such as Street Fighter and Smash.
I have no issues with lots of text that detail interactions or lines of play and I enjoy comprehensive answers behind certain lines of play or card selections. I feel like it makes me and other readers of the thread better players.
@ Hushbringer: Someone (Fox?) highlighted it's potential use (and atrocious art) when it was spoiled a few pages ago. Not sure if anyone's actively tested Hush, but Scroll of Fate seems to have become the enabler of choice for cheating in Noughts. My gut reaction is that I could see it being run out of the side as hate versus decks that are heavily reliant on triggers (ala Ichorid), as opposed to enabling our 12/12s. I think I'd rather see Vision Charm or Trickbind in my UW list before Hush.
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