Page 214 of 216 FirstFirst ... 114164204210211212213214215216 LastLast
Results 4,261 to 4,280 of 4306

Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #4261
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,348

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    @crispymelee You hit 3 matchups where Vision Charm has quite a bit of text:
    -Against Merfolk, I'd probably value Vis. Charm over Stifle. They generally lack Fetches, but the land mode on Vis. Charm can turn off islandwalk and lead to some pretty bad attacks for them.
    -Versus infect, their best threat is generally Inkmoth which is notably an artifact, so phasing it out after a few pump spells is a high priority play to be aware of. Cutting Standstill #2 is probably better here. With EE (and Ratchet as well), this is one of those matchups where we remember the issues with not running Powder Keg which does kill lands with type creature or artifact.
    -Vision Charm crushes High Tide. You can even let them combo off a bit and then "it sure would be a shame if the card High Tide only allowed tapping Islands for extra mana and you didn't have Islands for the rest of the turn..." Unless they were doing something graveyard'y, I don't think bringing in Tormod's Crypt accomplishes anything? Cutting Dazes seems fine. I rarely fight them on cantrips, just counter the business spells or let them walk into a Vision Charm with counter backup. Also remember that Stifle can target Flusterstorm's trigger, so post-High Tide you tap 1 land and you pay for Stifle and use the other mana [from their High Tide] to pay Fluster.

    It would be hard to find two decks that get rolled harder by Vision Charm than High Tide and Doomsday (I see you've got a 5 card library sir, sure would be a shame if someone kicked over your pile...). Also keep in mind that Vision Charm can attack named nonbasics - emphasis here is on named. There is ofc the legacy achievement of all Desert become Island -> Daze my Desert back to hand, but the more relevant interaction to keep in mind is that Locus is a named land type. You're on UR and an opponent who plays Glimmerpost makes a cute trigger to gain life - funny thing about Vision Charm is all the Locus are now Plains, you gain zero life. In a pinch you can also nuke all their Locus in their upkeep to cut their mana down for a turn.

    The other line you really want to look for with Vision Charm is vindicating Pithing Needle effects by "forgetting" to crack Fetches in response. Really look to play hands with 2x Fetch of the same name + a differently named Fetch (or a blue source) with turn 1 and 2 same-named Fetchland, pass. Let them squander the Needle, deploy your blue source, phase Needle out, and crack your Fetches. Let your opponent know when Needle will phase back in, and let them sit there for like 30 seconds after it phases back in thinking about what to name; after they decide, let them know it never left the battlefield and it's still on the two Fetches you just cracked.

  2. #4262
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2019
    Location

    SoCal
    Posts

    42

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    /snip strats
    The Tormod's was for the Time Spiral shenanigans that were going on. I understand he can just Wish his way (cunning, the new Fae wish) out of it, but with the amount of cantrips, shapers, and permission he was putting into the graveyard, I thought it'd be an okay attempt at disruption.

    Thanks for the analysis once again, I had come up exactly 0 of those VCharm interactions before your post. For the next local on Tuesday, gonna be going back to the old faithful UW list.

    I always forget about just how much I lean on the inherent strengths of W in Legacy, until I don't play it (Canonist, RiP, disenchant).
    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

  3. #4263
    Worldslayer
    Rood's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2005
    Location

    MA
    Posts

    1,002

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I think Goyf and Veil of Summer might make green splash a viable option. The fact it blanks counter and abrupt decay is so good.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  4. #4264
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2019
    Location

    SoCal
    Posts

    42

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Rood View Post
    I think Goyf and Veil of Summer might make green splash a viable option. The fact it blanks counter and abrupt decay is so good.
    Wow - does this mean my playset of Rainforests and Trops might see the light of day? Do I need to get 3 more Goys? :P

    On a serious note though, did you have more of the classic Tempo game in mind? Running a pair of Goyfs alongside Delvers, and Veil coming in from the side?

    I was under the impression that G doesn't push the idea of controlling the board (W) or pushing damage quickly (R) as well as other splashes. Would love to know what other supporting cards you had in mind for G .
    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

  5. #4265
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Sep 2009
    Location

    Vienna, AT
    Posts

    424

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Managed to squeeze in a Legacy FNM last night (list unchanged), went 3-1: Oko Reanimator feat. Veil of Summer (2-0), Sneak and Show (2-0), UR Delver (1-2), RUG Delver (2-0). Of those 7 wins, 6 were due to "natural" Dreadnoughts.

    The UR Delver match felt very winnable, but I punted badly in G2 (rushed out Dreadnouht + Stifle too early with too little blue mana on the board, so my second Daze and only Flusterstorm could not contribute to the ensuing counter-war that I lost), and saw nothing but reactive answers in G3, where a single Delver of Secrets was enough to make it for my opponent.

    I'm considering adding a third Brazen Borrower to the main, it's just so good.

  6. #4266
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,348

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    What colors were you on @colo. Nice work btw!

  7. #4267
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Sep 2009
    Location

    Vienna, AT
    Posts

    424

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Thanks 8)

    My list (still mono U) as of last Friday:


    4 Scroll of Fate
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stratus Dancer
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Daze
    4 Stifle
    3 Vision Charm
    2 Brazen Borrower

    4 Wasteland
    1 Academy Ruins
    8 Island
    4 Prismatic Vista
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Polluted Delta


    I'm not 100% sure what I ran in the SB, but it's largely unchanged from my previous iterations.

  8. #4268

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by crispymelee View Post
    Wow - does this mean my playset of Rainforests and Trops might see the light of day? Do I need to get 3 more Goys? :P

    On a serious note though, did you have more of the classic Tempo game in mind? Running a pair of Goyfs alongside Delvers, and Veil coming in from the side?

    I was under the impression that G doesn't push the idea of controlling the board (W) or pushing damage quickly (R) as well as other splashes. Would love to know what other supporting cards you had in mind for G .
    Second this! I'm planning on putting together the UR version but UG sounds really interesting.

  9. #4269
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Sep 2009
    Location

    Vienna, AT
    Posts

    424

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Based on the input considerng spalshing G: To those of you considering "light splashes" of other colours, what are the cards you expect to be most impactful in the current meta? To me, the most obvious that I can think of are the following:

    (Edit: I'll update this list with community suggestions.)

    Red:
    Abrade
    Bonecrusher Giant
    Lightning Bolt
    Fire // Ice
    Magmatic Sinkhole
    Pyroblast
    Red Elemental Blast

    Green:
    Hooting Mandrills
    Ice-Fang Coatl
    Oko, Thief of Crowns
    Tarmogoyf
    Veil of Summer

    White:
    Celestial Purge
    Rest in Peace
    Swords to Plowshares
    Teferi, Time Raveler

    Black:
    Baleful Strix
    Drown in the Loch
    Fatal Push
    Gurmag Angler
    Thoughtseize

    How would you extend (or correct) these lists?
    Last edited by colo; 11-12-2019 at 05:14 AM.

  10. #4270

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post
    Based on the input considerng spalshing G: To those of you considering "light splashes" of other colours, what are the cards you expect to be most impactful in the current meta? To me, the most obvious that I can think of are the following:

    Red:
    Pyroblast
    Red Elemental Blast
    Abrade

    Green:
    Veil of Summer
    Tarmogoyf
    Oko, Thief of Crowns

    White:
    Swords to Plowshares
    Teferi, Time Raveler

    Black:
    Fatal Push
    Drown in the Loch

    How would you extend (or correct) these lists?
    Gurmag Angler too for black, they are not easy to kill
    also Ice-Fang Coatl and Baleful Strix are a nice cards for a 2 cards "combo" deck.

  11. #4271
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Sep 2009
    Location

    Vienna, AT
    Posts

    424

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Thanks for your contribution, frustanani - I updated the list with your suggestions :) Of course; Strix and Angler are kinda no-brainers; I wonder why I hadn't thought about them! :) Ice-Fang Coatl would require a snow sub-theme to really pull it off (and kinda nonbos with Scroll of Fate, just like Strix), but it's still a strong enough card to consider, I'd say.

  12. #4272
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2019
    Location

    Berlin | Canberra | NYC
    Posts

    35

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    @Colo

    main reason for running black is Thoughseize imo. Drown and Push are also good of course, but the information from TS in a deck that wants to 2-for-1s itself is super strong.

    We can start debating the merits vs the antisynergy of Strix in a Scroll deck if and when W6 gets banned; right now that card is unplayable outside of hard control. On the other hand: Plague Engineer, while obnoxious design and also a nonbo with Scroll, is a SB allstar.

  13. #4273
    Worldslayer
    Rood's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2005
    Location

    MA
    Posts

    1,002

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Veil to protect Scroll, Dreadnoughts, Delvers seems really good. I will be trying out a green splash list with some # of Goyfs and 4 Veil of summer sb
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  14. #4274
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,348

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I think Goyf is one of those cards that doesn't really help. If you're dying to Delver you can block with your own Delver (or Stratus). Under no circumstance can you afford to block enemy Goyf with a Goyf (those ones from opponents come with Bolt + Wrenn + Oko, all of which blow you out postcombat). Historically Goyf was run with Dreadnought b/c [in a format where SCM wasn't printed yet] you had to run Goyf in response to opponents having Goyf (he wasn't ever going to die to a Firespouts). This is a pretty bad place to be where opponents who have Goyf + at least 8 more 'trick' cards than you which effortlessly hand them the Goyf war victory. Probably the easiest way to see this style fail is to run your UG idea vs pre-Czech Shardless BUG - this should rapidly show you the issue with doing the same thing less effectively (and they don't have Bolt, and wouldn't have Wrenn or Oko in that timeframe).

    You reach for that 3rd color and you can kiss your dreams of casting our best card [Scroll of Fate]/opening on Fetch for basic goodbye. When it comes to Oko, there's no shortage of removal that gifted opponents a 2/2 or a 3/3 - and this has been the primary deficit of UG for many years: there isn't a card that fixes what you gave them in a velocity positive way. If the maybeGoyf [Gargoyle] wasn't working, then actual Goyf isn't going to work either. Goyf can win games of legacy by itself b/c it's a poorly-designed card, but you really don't want to play this against other decks that use it better. Every Goyf you add is going to cripple your ability to be an effective Dreadnought-enabling deck. This is a very quick way to discover that UG + Oko/Goyf = should be playing red for Bolt/Wrenn = and now I'm dropping Dreadnought and I'm RUG Delver now.

    A very important skill is differentiating a legacy staple from advancing a Dreadnought plan. You're going one step beyond this if you're advocating playing Strix into Wrenn the Gathering. While Ice-Fang can at least vindicate an opposing Goyf (whether or not they have a Wrenn), you're saying that you're on 2c [needing snow basics] and if we add Goyf and Dreadnought, you've already removed Delver from your list (too many Delver non-flipping cards). Now you're durdling around against combo (your best matchup) and only producing real threats [at sorcery speed] after turn 1...then this is a downward spiral. The reason you could play Dreadnought in the first place is b/c you chose cards to enable/justify a 12/12 tempo reservoir. The more normal magic you play, the worse that tempo reservoir will get; i.e. unable to leverage asymmetry.

    You're rather restricted to two reliable paths forward: combo them out (UR's count to 20 theme) or ramp up the tempo weirdness (UW's ability to sit back playing subgames enabled by reset buttons, like Verdict, and manland superiority under Teferi). If you really want to test Goyf and try and exploit this time in legacy where deathtouching ETB-value scum have been mostly hated out by Wrenn, go ahead....just don't be surprised when you're running into better Goyf shells or Snapcasters.

    In terms of card analysis, I'd agree with Veil being strong; but I'd put Lotus Field/Crop Rot above Oko which is a good ways above Goyf. When it comes to the black cards, you're naming 2 effects that can't take over a game when behind; that's a bit of a problem since you're deferring power to a tempo reservoir which is optimally being enabled by a 3-drop. As far as black goes right now, I think you'd really struggle to say a UB Dreadnought build is better than UB Standstill since they just got Blacklance Paragon and Murderous Rider which solve the three largest problems they had [opposing PWs, dies to Goyf, dies to Burn].

  15. #4275
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2019
    Location

    SoCal
    Posts

    42

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    If by "light splash" you mean "doesn't have WW or RR" in the casting cost":

    White:
    Celestial Purge
    - Hits W6, Liliana, [insert random bothersome R or B permanent here]
    Acid Rain
    - Not white, but if you were to run an effect as expensive as this (3U), it'd likely be in a more traditional control-style list splashing W anyways. Does not care about basic typing. Idk if it's even worth considering since I don't know how badly it would actually hurt G-focused decks and a resolved W6 does not care that much about it.


    Also, congrats on your result! It's so interesting seeing a list with CB and no Top, or even a Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library.

    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

  16. #4276

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post
    Based on the input considerng spalshing G: To those of you considering "light splashes" of other colours, what are the cards you expect to be most impactful in the current meta? To me, the most obvious that I can think of are the following:

    (Edit: I'll update this list with community suggestions.)

    Red:
    Pyroblast
    Red Elemental Blast
    Abrade

    Green:
    Veil of Summer
    Tarmogoyf
    Ice-Fang Coatl
    Oko, Thief of Crowns

    White:
    Swords to Plowshares
    Teferi, Time Raveler

    Black:
    Fatal Push
    Gurmag Angler
    Baleful Strix
    Drown in the Loch

    How would you extend (or correct) these lists?
    For reference, I'm using 3 Vantress Gargoyle in a mono blue list without 12/12 and it is a super creature against delver decks
    I'm using them with 4 thought Scour 1 Set Adrift, 1 Tribute Mage, 1 Umezawa's Jitte, 1 Phyrexian Revoker, 4 True-Name Nemesis, 4 Delver of Secrets & 1 Brazen Borrower.

    Actually I don't think that the second colour for Phyrexian Dreadnought decks should be chosen according to creatures. Or at least in a second step. Blue has already a nice and sufficient tool. Spells and Planeswalker are to my view more important in that choice.

    I'm refering to
    Red: Lightning Bolt, Abrade, Fire Ice, Red Elemental Blast, Magmatic Sinkhole
    Green: Veil of Summer, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Crop Rotation, Sylvan Library
    Black: Thoughtseize, Fatal Push, Drown in the Loch
    White: Swords to Plowshares, Teferi, Time Raveler, Rest in Peace

    Fox and Tobitzki are right, 1/1 Creatures are not a nice choice now cause of Wreen and Plague

    Than, in second time creatures:
    Red: Bonecrusher Giant
    White: ?
    Green: Tarmogoyf, Hooting Mandrills, Elvish Reclaimer
    Black: Gurmag Angler
    Blue: Vantress Gargoyle, True-Name Nemesis, Delver of Secrets, Brazen Borrower, Snapcaster Mage, Stratus Dancer, Trinket Mage.

  17. #4277
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    1,348

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I would take Trinket Mage off that list, that card hasn‘t been playable since early 2012 [when we stopped being a CB/SDT deck]. Too slow for legacy, and at 3+ mana we have to compare it directly to a PW.

  18. #4278
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    4,294

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I would take Trinket Mage off that list, that card hasn‘t been playable since early 2012 [when we stopped being a CB/SDT deck]. Too slow for legacy, and at 3+ mana we have to compare it directly to a PW.
    We don't even have to get to PW's, it competes with Scroll of Fate at 3 mana.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  19. #4279
    Worldslayer
    Rood's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2005
    Location

    MA
    Posts

    1,002

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Mage got phased out by TNN which got fazed out by scroll of Fate. But even before then it got cut its way too slow for its impact
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  20. #4280
    Member
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    New Gloucester, Maine, USA
    Posts

    4,294

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Rood View Post
    Mage got phased out by TNN which got fazed out by scroll of Fate. But even before then it got cut its way too slow for its impact
    BTW, I've been catching you on ELD games YouTube videos lately. Pretty cool how you dismantled a storm player 2-0 recently, really displaying the power level of Scroll of Fate even without Dreadnought. You closed games super fast.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)