[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

This deck creates some weird lines and it's great! Tonight against miracles I was mana screwed facing down a Jace, and with 2x wastelands and 1 tundra had to use Mask to put in vanilla TNN's lol, madness dude. So far the victories make the losses worth it.

Fun fact: Mask'd True-Name's are one of the very few ways to make them not have protection. Even when they turn face-up.

[Mr. Safety]

I'm going to be trolling my LGS in September with this list:

4x Delver of Secrets
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
2x Nimble Obstructionist
2x Snapcaster Mage

4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Standstill
4x Daze
2x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
1x Fling
1x Trickbind
2x Counterspell

3x Scalding Tarn
3x Flooded Strand
2x Steam Vents
4x Island
1x Mountain
4x Wasteland
3x Mishra’s Factory

Sideboard
4x Misdirection
3x Pyroblast
2x Sower of Temptation
3x Smash to Smithereens
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Torpor Orb


The Torpor Orb is anti-synergistic with Snaps, but that's a small thing. I think the red offers better removal than Dismember, reach, and allows for a combo with Fling. I don't have Force of Will, but that is really isn't a reason to avoid the deck (I don't think.) Against some decks Force gets boarded out anyways. T1 combo decks will be a problem, but at least I have Surgical for reanimator. Overall, I'm really happy with how Stifle is situated in my local meta-game.

EDIT: Fling has been excellent. Seriously debating a 2nd copy.

[Fox]

Finally got tired of UW Standstill (where the only lesson is you should just be playing UWr miracles), and decided to enter the fist again with this 3-0 list for tonight:
Dreadnought x3
Delver x4
SCM x2
Big Grimmz x2

Standstill x4
Illus. Mask x1

Brainstorm x4
FoW x4
Stifle x4
Daze x4
Bolt x3
Izzet Charm x2
Wild Slash x1
Trickbind x1

Island x2
Mountain x1
Volc. x3
Tarn x4
blue Fetch x3
Wasteland x4
Factory x4

SB:
Pyroblast x2
Surgical x2
Divert x2
Abrade x2
Misdirection x1
Teferi's Realm x1
Teferi's Response x1
Mind Bend x1 (expecting Choke)
Torpor Orb x1
Chandra, ToD x2

R1 vs DnT (2-1). Mull to 4 game 1 just to find land, don't win that one. Game 2 vs their mull, Dreadnought gets a hit in early before dying, game goes long as opponent gets a few Batterskull hits while my hand is mono red cards and no red mana; once I hit mana to unload hand I eventually get there. Game 3 I have to mull a no-lander again...opponent makes some questionable attacks in extra turns and dies to a topdeck Bolt on turn 5 of turns. Should probably have been a loss even though opponent was bringing in RiP against a deck that only has 4 cards that kinda care; if that were a creature I think they win easily.

R2 vs UWr miracles (1-0-1). Game 1 I don't see any Dreadnought stuff, but do see Factories and Standstills; the opponent doesn't win b/c they can't find Counterbalance [primary reason] and decide to ram Mentor and backup FoW into two hardcast Daze. Game 2 is incredibly annoying, have to follow the stupid gameplan of Duress StP with not-Factory creature, Surgical StP and play idiocy the gathering where all I do is keep cards in hand until opponent either exposes SCM into a Surgical (Trickbind to sunder the connection between first attempt to recast a red blast) or finds & tries to actually resolve a Counterbalance - their planeswalkers I could care less about. Game goes to time because of course it does; the only gameplan is keep CB from landing then Surgical it; failing that Surgical the StP and SCM. Opponent was unable to do anything of note with Mentors due to a Grim Lavamancer that wasn't leaving the table unless they Terminus their army.

R3 vs B/R Reanimonster (2-1). I win the die roll and they don't have Chancellor; Turn 1 Delver into turn 2 Standstill w/ Factory almost gets there but no permission vs them drawing pretty perfect after choosing to go Sire first reanimation target (after that they get Chancellor, discard to trigger, exhume the flying blocker, and b/c no Fetchland I have no red mana and have to discard things like lethal Bolt and Grim Lavamancer, which they do Reanimate). Game 2 I have Factory, Island and mono permission...they keep Thoughtseizing me and I don't stop topdecking permission so Factory + Thoughtseize life loss get there. Game 3 they have Chancellor but no turn 1 play, so I get Fetch down and get to Daze the Coll. Brutality [discards Grisel] opponent can't topdeck business + discard so a Delver gets joined by a Dreadnought with some permission being exchanged leading up the this point.

Liked the extra burn from Chandra vs miracles and DnT. Definitely missed Commandeer tonight since there were 2x B/R and 1x SnS in the room out of eight decks. While Dack was always great fun, Chandra the value vortex is more in-line with what we're trying to do. Wanted to run a Price of Progress and Sulfur Elemental [or Staticaster] in the board, but no more space sadly. Playing against B/R was the best part of the night, these games are always wild, powerful, and often highly un-intuitive for both sides.

[Mr. Safety]

How good is Jace TMS in this deck? Is he worth any slots main/side? Without Force of will I'm a little nervous about the Miracles matchup, but resolving a Jace seems very good against them.

[Fox]

How good is Jace TMS in this deck? Is he worth any slots main/side? Without Force of will I'm a little nervous about the Miracles matchup, but resolving a Jace seems very good against them.

Would rather have a card they can't Pyroblast. Against the infinite value of a Counterbalance drawing cards doesn't really matter. Looking at their top of deck is nice, but not when you play into Blast (this is why Ashiok has never been played to any success vs UWr Counterbalance combo). Chandra-ToD is the better walker as it offers burn and is a real threat under a Standstill. I would rate Chandra-ToD, Last Hope, Teferi, Karn, and even Nissa of the 5/5s all as better than JTMS since you'd just doing the same thing in a worse (more disruptable~sequence dependent) shell. Jace is also in many ways just a worse Azcanta in a deck that can easily protect it from Wasteland.

[Mr. Safety]

Thanks for the response. I'm taking my list tomorrow night to an FNM to test it out. When I took mono-blue I went 3-1, losing only one match to D&T. My meta-game has a ton of that deck, so splashing red should really boost that matchup (Bolt kills just about everything.) I made a small change in my sideboard accordingly, putting 2x Firespout in there. It should be very good against D&T and the other creature decks that tend to show up.

[Michael Keller]

I think I might run Dreadstill at the GP. I'm teetering between a few decks, and since I've been running Landstill for a few months, I figure why the hell not.

[Rood]

Is there Legacy at the GP? Ill be playing in the main event.

[Michael Keller]

It's a Legacy GP (Richmond) at the end of this month, yep.

[Fox]

Commander 2018 cards with text & worth buying if cheap:
-Enchanter's Bane red anti-enchantment is incredibly rare (this is the first without color stipulation?).
-Night Incarnate this is sideboard playable, but a UB build should have access to Massacre + Vision Charm (if they need to alt-cast). It's the magus of Yahenni's Expertise with slightly more graveyard interactions.
-Retrofitter Foundry probably a good enough card to bring in from the board if a Dreadnought comes out. Sadly does not make Assembly Workers.
-Estrid's Invocation build-around potential, nothing [that helps with Dreadnought] worth copying yet exists at legacy costs.

-Xantcha, Sleeper Agent not really for Dreadnought (bad colors), but it is worth noting that this card plays nicely with Torpor Orb.
-Tawnos, Urza's Apprentice not for us but worth buying if cheap.
-Ravenous Slime legacy playable, not sure what deck it would go in (green + targeted destroy) but you'd be trying to disrupt K-Comm/Strix/SCM more than anything. Worse than Anafenza, the Foremost but less color restrictive.

Honorable Dreadnought mentions:
-Ancient Stone Idol honorable mention for obvious reasons.
-Primordial Mist if 4 mana, maybe. Don't like being Pyroblast'able and being generally worse than Mastery of the Unseen

Honorable generic mentions:
-Varchild, Betrayer of Kjeldor not good enough but hilarious, obvious combo with Varchild's War-Riders (War-Riders is like a $1 card, this is a stupid spike to $10)
-Bloodtracker magus of the Greed. Garbage card, but I genuinely like the design.
-Endless Atlas not really for Dreadnought, but worth picking up a few if under a dollar. Merfolk probably would probably want this more than anyone with their basic Islands and ability to Phantasmal a Mutavault. Direct competition with Smuggler's Copter though.
-Sower of Discord combo with Ancient Tomb (you'd of course gain life with Inventor's Fair to break Symmetry). Too expensive and lacks evasion, but we see life shenanigans' cmcs slowly dropping.

Don't see much value in the PWs from this set in legacy, the closest to playable is Aminatou, the Fateshifter; the problem here is that Tundra can't beat Counterbalance and the Counterbalance decks run Pyroblast so....uh yeah, pointless. I'm sure people will also hype Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow which comes in as a generically worse CA engine than Shadowmage Infiltrator/Dark Confidant/Lilly, Last Hope; unless you really want to play Ninjas, don't pay more than like $2 for this.

Looking only at cards specific to this set and applicable to legacy, I don't really see any effect that should cost more than like $3. Assuming they have low initial costs, the best investments look like Tawnos and Xantcha. Don't really see legacy strategies coming along anytime soon to really spike their prices, but both play nicely with Baleful Strix-style magic so the potential is there. Beyond that there could be this idea of a Dreadnought-ish deck where you try to cheese wins off Sol Land/Chalice (probably), combo Varchild's War-Riders with Varchild herself and then at some point you're deciding to win more by having survivor tokens under someone's control attacking and unlocking Ancient Stone Idol; I don't think this is good enough for legacy when you could have done about the same thing and gone Sneak Attack -> Worldspine Wurm.

[Mr. Safety]

So I hit 2 weekly events recently with Dreadstill, an FNM and a Sunday weekly. Both were 4 rounds, both were quite educational. FNM I was playing with the budget red splash, and I went 1-3 (boo) winning against Goryo's Vengeance/Show and Tell combo, losing to Enchantress, Black and Taxes, and Death and Taxes. The red splash was pretty bad, especially considering I was only on 20 lands. I quickly scrapped the red splash, added the 4th Factory and land 21, and went 3-1 on Sunday, winning against Death and Taxes (Torpor Orb is amazing), Eldrazi Cloudpost, and mono-green Stompy-ish deck (homebrew, uncounterable green threats + Chalice in the board.) My only loss was to UB Death's Shadow (thanks PT), which was very close. I won game 1 off a t1 stifle on his fetch. He never draws another land, is stuck with 3 cantrips in hand. I lost a close g2 where my one Dreadnought was holding off 3 Death's Shadows. He's at 1, I have the ability to win if I topdeck a Vapor Snag, but I whiff. G3 I mulligan to oblivion, 5 on the play, and I stabilize with Ratchet Bomb. I also cashed in on a bunch of unused cards, nabbing me $650 in store credit (apparently I had some EDH cards that were really valuable like Survival of the Fittest and Rings of Brighthearth.) So budget is not a barrier anymore. I snatched up their only Force of Will with the plan of getting 3 more when the come in.

I'll spare you the red list, it was posted a page back. I'm 100% committed to the mono-blue list, it's just so much more stable and Dismember does so much work.

4x Delver of Secrets
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Nimble Obstructionist

4x Brainstorm
4x Vapor Snag
4x Stifle
2x Spell Snare
1x Spell Pierce
4x Daze
4x Standstill
3x Counterspell
1x Torpor Orb
1x Trickbind
2x Dismember

4x Mishra's Factory
4x Wasteland
4x Flooded Strand
3x Scalding Tarn
6x Island

Sideboard
2x Surgical Extraction
4x Misdirection
2x Sower of Temptation
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Dismember
1x Echoing Truth
1x Dispel
2x Pithing Needle


I noticed I had really strong games where I could land a Torpor Orb (nuts against D&T.) It would have helped greatly against Death's Shadow as well, letting me play and protect my Dreadnoughts. I will definitely be slotting in a 2nd Torpor Orb after I find one. For now, I dropped a Counterspell for a Force of Will. Once I get the set I'll reconfigure it, probably dropping the Spell Pierce entirely (possibly going to the sideboard.) I have a couple questions to the group:

1) Can I afford to play Academy Ruins? It seems super greedy with 8 non-blue lands already, but it could be fantastic at creating card advantage with Ratchet Bomb/Dreadnought/Torpor Orb.

2) Do you always board out Daze on the draw? I've been aggressively boarding them out on the draw for Misdirection or extra removal. Spell Snare obviously shines on the draw, Counterspell is awkward on the draw, but overall I'm not sure if it's correct. Some decks are super lean that Daze on the draw isn't always dead, but it did set me back on development a couple games.

3) I have also been boarding out my Standstills in some matchups; is this correct? Against D&T I tend to leave in 2 Standstills (because I board in Needles for vial.)

4) With Torpor Orbs, is Hunted Phantasm good enough to attempt? Hunted Horror is obviously better, but I'm not in black. Also looking at Eater of Days as another Torpor Orb trick.

5) Eldrazi Mimic and Warping Wail both seem to be decent cards, although Mimic seems to go a little too deep on Dreadnought. Wail does a lot: counters a spell, makes a token, or removes a dude.

6) Has this thread discussed Stubborn Denial or Not of this World yet? Thoughts on those conditional counterspells?

[Fox]

1) Too slow, Daze deck, and already have 8 colorless lands. If you have any recursive elements like Snapcaster/JVP you'll get more from Noxious Revival.
2) As a general rule if they have no basics (Delver variants) or are an aggressive combo deck I usually leave in all/most Dazes.
3) Standstill can often be shaved, particularly when opponents have manland/Wasteland, game actions (Ichorid), or Vial. Against fair decks that cast threats, probably don't go below 3.
4) I wouldn't advise stacking up effects like that. Not only does consistency drop, but you also impede Delver to the point of unplayable...once this happens you're very quickly a Sol Land/Chalice deck doing one monotonous simple trick (similar to Big Eldrazi).
5) Mimic is Sol Land only, I've covered the reasons behind that somewhere in this thread. Warping Wail is playable, but colored spells are generally better. In your list it'd probably come in for an amount of Vapor Snag.
6) Those two spells fall into the UB family of Dreadnought, which usually use Petal. Stubborn requires non-Dreadnought ferocious threats (keyword delve) to reach adequate levels of ferocious density (6-7 cards). Not of this World is fine but generally antagonistic to the most powerful thing you can do in UB: Dark Confidant.

[Mr. Safety]

Big thanks! So far I've been doing really well with the deck, even if the results aren't truly giving me an idea of how good it is in the larger metagame; I only play locally, that's the metagame I care about.

I also have this in the back of my mind...which is probably no good, but man, I really want to try it:

4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
2x Dark Depths
1x Nimble Obstructionist

4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
4x Standstill
4x Daze
1x Force of Will
3x Not of this World
1x Trickbind
1x Torpor Orb
3x Expedition Map
4x Vapor Snag

3x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
6x Island
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra’s Factory
2x Thespian’s Stage
1x Tolaria West

[Xod]

Mr. Safety, nice idea, but Dark Depth's 10 ice counters is not a triggered ability. It's the same as Endless One or walking balista. You can't stifle the counters they put one there while entering the battlefield.

[Mr. Safety]

Mr. Safety, nice idea, but Dark Depth's 10 ice counters is not a triggered ability. It's the same as Endless One or walking balista. You can't stifle the counters they put one there while entering the battlefield.

Oh I know that Depths doesn't combo with Orb/Stifle. That isn't the point...the point is I have Brainstorm/Standstill/Map/TWest to find the combo pieces as an alternative to Dreadnought as a win condition. Instead of t1 Delver/Stifle, t2 Standstill it's t1 Map/Stifle, t2 Standstill. I can also activate Stage + Depths under standstill, which allows me to draw even deeper to find NotW/Force/Daze to protect Marit Lage if they have an answer to it (StP, Diabolic Edict.) It's essentially Factory on steroids. In the event they somehow deal with Depths/Stage I can use maps/West to find Factory's/Wastelands. I can also activate Tolaria west as a tutor under a standstill, because transmute is an activated ability. This essentially replaces Pithing Needle with Stifle in the turbo depths list (to protect from Wasteland/Karakas), plays a mana denial strategy to make them stumble in the early game, then hits them with a 12/12 trampler or a 20/20 flyer.

Does Sundial of the Infinite combo with Dark Depths? I imagine it doesn't or people would have already tried it, but hey, if it works I could use that with my Dreadnoughts, too.

EDIT: Wasteland protects from Karakas while under standstill as well. Maindeck factories protect against Edict.

EDIT #2: TNN solves a lot of problems in the mono-blue list with Delvers, too. I might nab some of those.

[Fox]

If you're doing Depths + Dreadnought, the most important piece to maximize and build around is Vampire Hexmage as it provides maindeck PW killing and Chalice neutralization (just don't use Ill. Mask). I don't think it's good enough to build around, but it is the most unique gain of function.

Sundial does not work with Dark Depths, the cheapest card would be Alpine Moon in a deck that had some way to pick up or kill its own enchantment.

[Poron]

The cheapest card is Curfew and Surgical Extraction on Dark Depths

[Fallen_Empire]

Played U/W Stiflenought tonight at the weekly... Went 2-2

2-1 Against Astral Slide. Pretty sure we were the only table on the planet playing that match up this week...
0-2 Against Infect (Got greedy cast dreadnought with stifle, only to have it hit with Vines of Vastwood in response).
0-2 Against Show and Tell. Kept crap hands, not sure it would have mattered in the end. A bad match up in general.
2-0 Against Eldrazi. Devastating wastelands + creature beats gets us there.

All in all a lot of fun, i agree I think the U/W list still needs a few pieces.

[Hopo]

0-2 Against Infect (Got greedy cast dreadnought with stifle, only to have it hit with Vines of Vastwood in response).

That's not how this game works. Stifle targets an ability, not a permanent.

[Fallen_Empire]

That's not how this game works. Stifle targets an ability, not a permanent.

I stifled the trigger