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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #4381
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobitzki View Post
    @Rood. Killing it lately! you got a big shout out by the LaL guys this week, too.
    I heard the name-drop during the podcast as well.
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    @Fox Makes sense; I already figured that we need to be super judicious with our fetching decisions and sometimes just sandbag a Volc, too. The mana base is just calibrated on razor-thin margins (see: history of this thread). 13, rather than the usual minimum 14, blue sources with only 4 cantrips is ballsy. Which is also why I don't like basic mountain here. But so, somewhat against my own better judgment, I was gonna run Academy Ruins over the 4th Scroll as land #21 and then Fiery Islet (only own 2 Volcs.). I know it's not correct, but I just wanna jam that beautiful John Avon land for a little while. Beyond that my logic was that offering more WL targets facilitates the odds of keeping a red source around, not sure if that computes.

    Otherwise, my UR build is basically Rood's MD, SB as such:

    1 T Orb
    2 Brazen Bouncer
    1 Dismember
    1 Magmatic Sinkhole
    1 Pithing Needle
    3 Red Blast
    2 Abrade
    1 E.E.
    1 Crypt
    1 Cage
    1 Surgical

    Now, the low red mana-source count made me dither between 2 and 3 blasts (when we really do want 3) and second-guess any further red inclusions, like Sinkhole. (on 2 Volcs I'd run a 2nd Snare or Hydroblast over REB#3 and 2nd Dismember over Sinkhole.) Also considering a 4th piece of GY hate over the Needle (I only have 1 Surgical and we probably need another instant-interaction: might end up being a Faerie Mac. In a related note, criminally underplayed card atm: Extirpate. Total blow out vs. all those Breach decks).

    I love the Tragic Lesson/Sanctuary idea. I was thinking about TL's viability for Legacy just the other day when I updated my Pauper Delver decks, but I hadn't thought of save-a-Factory mode. You can just run a single USea for the Painful Truth/Sanctuary package in the side, but this does put an additional if slight strain on our mana. And Lesson actually seems... strangely playable here? What would you cut in the SB, tho? The reason it might not make the cut in the end is simply that we need those slots elsewhere. We're not struggling vs. Snow Cntrl as much as, say, Delver.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobitzki View Post
    Now, the low red mana-source count made me dither between 2 and 3 blasts (when we really do want 3) and second-guess any further red inclusions, like Sinkhole. (on 2 Volcs I'd run a 2nd Snare or Hydroblast over REB#3 and 2nd Dismember over Sinkhole.) Also considering a 4th piece of GY hate (only own 1 Surgical and we probably need another instant-interaction: might be a Faerie Mac--in a related note, I think Extirpate is criminally underplayed atm: that's totally lights out vs. all those Breach decks).

    I love the Tragic Lesson/Sanctuary idea. I was thinking about TL's viability for Legacy just the other day when I updated my Pauper Delver decks, but I hadn't thought of save-a-Factory mode. You can just run a single USea for the Painful Truth/Sanctuary package in the side, but this does put an additional if slight strain on our mana. And Lesson actually seems... strangely playable here? What would you cut in the SB, tho? The reason it might not make the cut in the end is simply that we need those slots elsewhere. We're not struggling vs. Snow Cntrl as much as, say, Delver.
    You don't run Sea and Painful Truths; what I'm saying is that if you were ever considering something in the board like a Painful Truths-style grinding card you just use Tragic Lesson (staying on 2c) and keep picking up Mystic Sanctuary instead. Loop this nonsense over and over on opponent's EoT. Actual Painful Truths encourages pretty sloppy play combining sorcery speed with poor mana decisions and life loss - the moment DRS got banned this card became pretty suspect.

    I wouldn't play Hydroblast right now since there's nothing worth hitting (particularly when we consider that Snare hits 2-drops). Game actions and permanents make for good yard hate. Consider Macabre and Damping Sphere (not so much yard hate here, but good at stopping plenty of play patterns used by combo). If you are on UB, Planar Void is a castable Leyline-analogue.

    I don't think Delver is that bad of a matchup since most versions aren't really equipped to fight on quite the same mana denial axis. BUG Delver is the most annoying, but that's all b/c of Goyf. If you're looking for SB space, Brazen is perfectly reasonable as 1x main/1x SB (also note the play pattern of bounce Goyf later in game, especially if you just drew Snare). Don't go below 3x REB effects (Oko).

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Iíve been on 4 Tarns 3 Delta side basic mountain at least 2 weeks now. Its just proper to win the delver and loam MUs

    You also want some # of dispels in your Sb. Veil is a volatile magic card
    Last edited by Rood; 02-03-2020 at 08:08 PM.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
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    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
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    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Haven't yet had the chance to play it out, but the thought of CB in a UR build is becoming less appealing to me on paper. Using this as reference:

    8x Scalding Tarn/Flooded Strand
    3x Wasteland
    3x Mishra's Factory
    2x Volcanic Island/Steam Vents (only own 1 proper UR dual)
    4x Island

    4x Dreadnought
    4x Delver
    2x Borrower

    4x Stifle
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Brainstorm
    2x Daze
    4x Force of Will

    3x Counterbalance
    3x Scroll of Fate
    2x Jace tMS

    4x open (Ponder vs Standstill)

    CB appeals to me since as colo said, it's a great way to discard permission from opponents, and is a low-cost investment into an engine that can randomly force opponents to discard cards with minimal further investment (BS, early, potentially JtMS later on). The issue I'm predicting (without testing yet) is that CB demands more library manipulation than typical Standstill builds have; I definitely want Ponder > Standstill if I'm running CB. However, that choice not only trashes the curve (only five 2cmc spells as built), it also pushes me away from manlands as additional reliable threats -> increases reliance on Noughts in general. Not a great look. We'll see how it goes tomorrow/Wednesday. On the flipside, Teferi's Response out of the SB seems hilarious, however narrow that'd be.

    SB Idea
    3x Red Elemental Blast
    2x Abrade
    3x Surgical Extraction
    2x True-Name Nemesis
    2x Engineered Explosives
    1x Spell Pierce
    1x Ashiok
    1x Narset


    Will give an update after tomorrow's weekly.

    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by crispymelee View Post
    Haven't yet had the chance to play it out, but the thought of CB in a UR build is becoming less appealing to me on paper. Using this as reference:

    8x Scalding Tarn/Flooded Strand
    3x Wasteland
    3x Mishra's Factory
    2x Volcanic Island/Steam Vents (only own 1 proper UR dual)
    4x Island

    4x Dreadnought
    4x Delver
    2x Borrower

    4x Stifle
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Brainstorm
    2x Daze
    4x Force of Will

    3x Counterbalance
    3x Scroll of Fate
    2x Jace tMS

    4x open (Ponder vs Standstill)

    CB appeals to me since as colo said, it's a great way to discard permission from opponents, and is a low-cost investment into an engine that can randomly force opponents to discard cards with minimal further investment (BS, early, potentially JtMS later on). The issue I'm predicting (without testing yet) is that CB demands more library manipulation than typical Standstill builds have; I definitely want Ponder > Standstill if I'm running CB. However, that choice not only trashes the curve (only five 2cmc spells as built), it also pushes me away from manlands as additional reliable threats -> increases reliance on Noughts in general. Not a great look. We'll see how it goes tomorrow/Wednesday. On the flipside, Teferi's Response out of the SB seems hilarious, however narrow that'd be.

    SB Idea
    3x Red Elemental Blast
    2x Abrade
    3x Surgical Extraction
    2x True-Name Nemesis
    2x Engineered Explosives
    1x Spell Pierce
    1x Ashiok
    1x Narset


    Will give an update after tomorrow's weekly.

    What's the point of 2 dazes...you may as well go 4 or 0

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    What's the point of 2 dazes...you may as well go 4 or 0
    I don't disagree. It's more of a question of having some semblance of a curve to support CB + having a "free" counter available. Was considering cutting Scroll to allow +2 Dazes with an extra slot left over, but that loops back into the issue mentioned before of an increased reliance on Dreadnoughts and the loss of Scroll def doesn't help the situation. Makes me think CB in a two-color shell is...poor, to put it kindly.
    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    What's the point of 2 dazes...you may as well go 4 or 0
    Not necessarily true, I used to run 3. It's one of the most sided-out cards in Standstill vs anything grindy.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    So Mystic Sanctuary got me thinking: Can we crack a Fetch in response to opponent triggering Standstill, before we draw three? (is that the whole point? pretty sweet if it works)

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobitzki View Post
    So Mystic Sanctuary got me thinking: Can we crack a Fetch in response to opponent triggering Standstill, before we draw three? (is that the whole point? pretty sweet if it works)
    Yes. That's also what makes it sweet with Counterbalance - but only in theory. I've had that fucking miser land end up in my starting seven or as an early topdeck regularly, no matter what I did :>

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Rough night back on UR Dreadstill. 0:3, plus a bye, but added a couple of bonus games vs. Eureka Tell (lost both of those, too.).

    The room: 2x Loam, D&T, Grixis Delver, Grixis Breach, ANT, Bant Miracles, Hogaak, Painter, Eureka Tell, Dreadstill.
    Not really worth doing a full write-up, but the matchups were:

    vs. Grixis Breach (1:2; v. close games, opp. went off twice while dead on board to a 12/12 & Just barely got there; between Dreadnought clock, interaction & Stifle, this feels like a fine MU)

    vs. 4C Loam (0:2; took a beating. He had strong draws getting Punishing Fire & Grove online early and our threats & disruption just never lined up. G2 I think he cracked a Standstill & went on to still kill me with Loam, Knight, Lily/Veil. Did not play this optimally by a long shot but the MU seems daunting. I countered every Chalice, but Knight, Abrupt Decay, P Fire all F us up so hard..)

    vs. RW Painter (1:2; losses were close, win a blowout; punted away G3 when I mistimed Petty Theft on Grindstone, which otherwise would have bought me the turn to find red mana for Abrade. This one's on me; MU seems ok.)

    vs. Eureka Tell (2 pre-board losses; strange & clunky games; neither deck finds any business for a long time, and when we do, his obviously overpowers ours. Overall, he broke 2 Standstills eot-ing Ice-Fang; after a big counterfight over S&T, he takes a Dreadnought hit only to Wish for E Truth, gives me 1 Turn to deal 3 damage that'd kill him dead--I have 3 ways that each need an extra turn: Mystic Sanctuary for Bolt, play 1 of 2 Factories, recast Dreadnought--and he goes off again next turn.)

    My list:

    4 Delver
    4 PhD
    3 Scroll of Fate
    4 Standstill

    4 BS
    4 Daze
    4 FoW
    4 Stifle
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    1 Force of Negation
    4 Lightning Bolt

    1 Mystic Sanctuary
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Wasteland
    7 Strand & Delta
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Island

    SB

    1 Torpor Orb
    2 Tragic Lesson
    2 Brazen Bouncer
    3 Red Blast
    1 Dismember
    2 Abrade
    1 Explosives
    1 Surgical
    1 Cage
    1 Crypt 


    Small sample size, obviously, but a few take-aways:

    Cracked Standstill ≠ victory. Each of my opp. played correctly vs. Standstill and I definitely drew into air a couple of times. Discarding to handsize is a little science unto itself.

    There's a real chance of drawing the wrong side of the deck here: Standstills without pressure; Dreadnoughts after just Stifling stuff. I didn't see nearly enough Delvers all night (they only showed up big to the Punishing Fire party). I never drew one of those Delver-into-Standstill hands otp.

    @Rood I see why you'd go for super narrow Show&Tell hate bombs (Agent of Treachery); they can play right through a Standstill, and Veil & Snake are formidable cards against us.

    Even though (naturally) I ended up with Mystic Sanctuary in my starting hand what felt like half the time, I actually liked the inclusion a lot, not least as blue source #14 & for guaranteeing Standstill cracks to hit what we need. Of all the Daze decks this might be the one that best capitalizes the utility of MS. Unfortunately, I never got to cast Tragic Lesson.

    The counter package of 2 Pierce, 1 Snare, 1 FoN seemed good against a diverse field. (of course still couldn't find that FoN when my life literally depended on it vs. Loam...) Might considering sticking a 2nd Snare in the side.

    Instead of basic mountain out of the side (as long as I stick with Sanctuary), I'm thinking of adding an 8th fetch over the 4th Island.


    Overall, while I know this to be a well-constructed if challenging deck that can do beautiful things, nights like these are frustrating enough to make we wanna go back & just cruise around in my Honda Civic for a bit. Standstill, Factories, and Dreadnought/Scroll vs. Ponder, Arcanist, and Pyromancer/TNN/Brazen B just seems so lopsided in both sheer power level & synergies.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Meanwhile, to cheer everyone up, here's the always entertaining Rich Shay running @Rood's list through a league. Highly recommended:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/5423172...ives&sort=time

    (League starts roughly around 00:30:00)

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    What was your boarding in these matches?

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    From memory, something like:

    vs. Grixis Breach:
    IN: 3 Blasts, 3 GY Hate
    OUT: 2 Scroll, 3 Bolts (I half expected him to pivot to Delver plan post-board, so left one in), 1 Dreadnought

    vs. Loam: (this was super tough)
    IN: Dismember; 2 Abrade, 2 Brazen B, E.E.; 1 Tragic Lesson (didn't wanna go all in on the grind plan on the play); Crypt; Surgical
    OUT: 2 Pierce; Snare; 4 Daze; 2 Dreadnoughts

    Basically I feel pulled into 2 directions here: grind with Sanctuary/Tragic Lesson & play to the board with removal OR go all in on Tempo & hope to Delver/Daze/WL them out of the game. Thing is that other than a super tight starting hand, Daze seems to be the weakest spell here.

    vs. Painter:
    IN: T Orb; 2 Abrade, E.E., 1 Brazen B, Surgical
    OUT: 2 Scrolls, 1 PhD, 1 Bolt, 1 Standstill (?), 1 Stifle (?) --not sure exactly, basically shaved a few things.

    Left in most of the Bolts for Painter, Goblins and because he showed me Smuggler's Copter. Perhaps leaving them all in would've been justified.


    Any advice & feedback appreciated.


    EDIT: final point: I missed Null Rod, then saw one in @Rood's list & realized that it's fine cuz with the exception of Stoneblade & D&T we board out Scrolls in the MUs where Rod shines.
    Last edited by Tobitzki; 02-05-2020 at 12:39 PM.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Most successful night thus far running the big boys; went 2-1-1 to earn a bit of store credit, drawing the last game (vs. Burn) due to the late hour. We played out a G1, and I'm fairly certain I could have taken it for a 3-1 based on what I saw (lots of higher CMC burn spells).

    Round 1: Turbo Depths, L 1-2 (0-1 overall) -
    G1: An almost ideal opener of T1 Island -> Delver, T2 Fetchland with BS in hand means that I'm able to to deliver early pressure on his life total. A second Delver in hand keeps up the pressure after the first eats a Decay, and I make sure to keep my Borrower in hand when I see the Thespian's comes down. Bob can't stop the beatdown, and he's close to death when he goes attempts to combo out with Dark Depths on my end step, and I let it resolve. I show him the Petty Theft on his upkeep and we go to G2.

    In: 3x Surgical Extract, 1x Pithing Needle, 2x EE, Narset
    Out: 3x CB, 2x Bolt, 1x Force of Will

    G2: He opens up with a Thoughtseize and I lose my Stifle. This time, my early Delver refuses to flip, and though I manage to stick a Dreadnought, it immediately eats a Decay. I use my Extraction on the Decay and am able to buy a turn by Stifling his first attempt to Stage -> Depths, I can't find either EE or Borrower to take care of the 20/20.

    G3: A very tight, technical game. I can't find early pressure, but I setup his Stage in the yard by attempting to Waste his Thespian's. This gets a Crop Rot in response, which I let resolve, fetching another Stage. This is when I realize I should have countered it since I would have gotten the Stage in the yard anyways. Now, I'm hoping to draw into another Extraction, Waste, or Stifle. Unfortunately, the Ponder and Brainstorm in hand don't dig me anything interactive, and I'm left helpless as he is able to get Marit Lage and he stomps me.

    Round 2: 4c Loam, W 2-1, (1-1 overall)
    G1: Once again, Delvers are the heroes of the day. I get greedy and overextend, going for a T2 Delver after the first one fails to flip, but am rewarded when on T3, they both flip on a blind Bolt reveal. All I'm seeing is a pile of dual lands stacking up on his side and have no clue what he's on until a land gets cycled. A Decay takes a Delver, but he has no answer for the second as I stick a Scroll. I Bolt his Bob to stop his alternative engine, and ironically, he scoops before I have the chance to flip my Manifested Deadnought, so he's still unaware of what's lurking behind the Delvers.

    In: 2x Spell Pierce, 3x Surgical Extraction, 1x Ashiok, 1x Narset, 2x TNN
    Out: 3x Counterbalance, 3x Daze, 1x JtMS, 2x Brazen Borrower

    G2: We both keep unwieldy hands, but Ponder manages to smooth out my draws. We drop lands back and forth, And I drop the first real threat of TNN. Nemesis gets to beat in for a couple turns, but Plague Engineer on Rogue ends him. I do manage to stick an Ashiok, and she manages to get rid of some cycle lands, but she meets a swift end to Bob and Engineer. Delver and Dread hit the board the turn after, but the Dread eats a Decay and Delver refuses to flip. Eventually, he goes wild with a Knight of the Reliquary, Maze of Ith, and Loam, and I get run over by a giant Knight.

    G3: I keep another aggressive (read: risky) 1-lander that has an Island, Ponder, 2x Brainstorm, and Delver. He keeps a risky hand as well, but luck favors me, and ponder gets me some early gas and resources (2nd delver + fetch). By the time he finds a second land for Chalice on 1, I have two flipped Delvers bearing down on him and he doesn't find any removal in time and concedes after I drop TNN. He showed me has hand after, and it was a potentially lethal mix of Oko, Liliana, another Chalice, and Loam.

    Round 3: Omnitell, W 2-0 (2-1 overall)

    G1: Continuing the theme of riding my luck tonight, I get another Ponder opener which lets me chip away at him by finding a Delver and setting up a flip. An early Stifle on a fetch sets him back a turn, and when he finally is able to cast LimDuls Vault, hes unlucky and pays 4 life for his piles. A CB discards force from him, and by the time he tries to drop Show and Tell, multiple Ponders and BS have given me a Daze and 2x FoW, with some extra Delvers to pitch. I win the FoW war over the SnT, and a few turns later, I have him within lethal range of Bolt; he concedes G1 after I show him the second Bolt with Steam Vents up.

    In: 3x REB, 3x Surgical Extraction, 2x Spell Pierce, 1x Narset
    Out: 3x CB, 3x Bolt, 2x Daze, 1x JtMS

    G2: Having seen the SnT, I'm disappointed with an opening hand of 2x Delver, 2x Land, JtMS, Scroll, and Ponder. I roll with it though, under the premise that a T1 Ponder can essentially dig me permission; after I shuffle away 3 non-interactive cards, it doesn't. He unfortunately seems unluckier with his draws, and once again, by the time he finds relevant pieces to put down, Delvers are flying in on him and put him within lethal range of a Dreadnought; he saw the Scroll G1, and this time didn't let it resolve, effectively winning me the counterwar when I hardcasted Nought.


    Overall impressions:
    + 4x Daze was the right call. I cut a Scroll#3 and Ponder#4 to fit them in.
    + Ponder in general was incredible. The ability to shuffle away irrelevant cards and cantrip felt very critical to keeping up pressure or digging for answers.
    + Brazen Borrower main feels like a must; being able to bounce any non-land perm into a line of them playing it out against permission felt amazing, and it sealed the game I took against Lands.
    + Mystic Sanct: ironically, the one time it mattered was the one time I had it in an opening hand. It gave me a bit of extra reach vs the Loam player
    = Undecided on CB; it never really got to affect any of my games, but it DID have the desired effect of discarding permission when I tried to cast it. That being said, I boarded them all out in every match, and frankly don't know when I should/Shouldn't keep them in. I felt good about taking them out in the matches i played, and would have kept them in for the Burn player if I played out R4.

    SB for the night:
    3x REB
    2x Spell Pierce
    3x S. Extraction
    1x Ashiok
    1x Narset
    2x Engineered Explosives
    2x TNN
    1x PNeedle

    Keep rocking them Noughts!
    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Watched the Rich Shay replay. The mechanics and long-term planning is done with proficiency, but the list is consistently undercut by improper card/role evaluation. If it were a normal legacy deck (like UR Delver) he would have been spot on, but he consistently jammed cards in such a way that future topdecks were getting stranded. You see more of this lost win % surrounding premature aggro-Dreadnoughts than with Standstill. If it was UR Standstill I'd rate his play/game-sense as expert (few to no egregious mistakes), but the Dreadnought tempo reservoir was too often misused.

    The sideboarding I disagreed with in pretty much every instance, but I don't play yolo-Dreadnought/normal legacy. Some thoughts as I watched the League:
    -Rood's list: I've never cared much for Pierce. The reasoning being when you're on Standstill, you're letting opponents get land drops and it's really hard to overcome having Daze and Pierce in your deck outnumbering pitch outlets 2:1. I get why Rood likes it, but ya I can't stand Pierce as a card. The lack of anti-SnT cards in board is ofc why we're seeing Pierce over Snare.
    In the board I'm never running Blood Moon; Alpine Moon yes. Kinda like Pierce vs Snare, I also dislike Narset compared to Ashiok. SB Karn is a card I will always reach for before Null Rod when above 18 land.

    -Round 1 vs BUG scoopzilla:
    Game 1 I would have waited for 1 more land drop before making post-Standstill Factory attack. Opponent scoops to Daze on Oko. There's quite a bit to be learned from this game; imagine the opponent hits land #4 and Oko resolves through the Daze corner Rich played himself into - it becomes a convincing loss very quickly. A withheld Factory attack results in auto-win.

    Sideboarding: dislike Blood Moon; Factory is a huge check on Oko. SBing otherwise looks okay, but I'd leave Stifle at 4x and cut Scroll x2 when going down 2x Nought. Adding Mountain is equivocal, but would like to see Daze trimmed [especially on the draw]; these games will skew longer and Daze is going to fall off. This can be inferred from Drown in the Loch into Oko. My Boarding here would be +4 REB, +1 Mag. Sinkhole, +1 Borrower, +1 Surgical, +1 Narset. -4 Daze, -2 Nought, -2 Bolt.

    Game 2 opponent scoops to Wasteland. Very lucky since that Blood Moon is something we were never interested in casting. When Standstill is good in a matchup, you can't really afford to bring in Moon and lose access to slamming Standstill while topdecking towards Factory.

    -Round 2 vs KassariPost:
    Game 1 with Stifle in hand on the play you lead Volc to vindicate any enemy Wasteland in the blind (had basic Island in hand to beat a turbo-Moon also). Agree with Rich's use of Scroll and Standstill. Disagree heavily with FoW vs Primetime Titan when we have Nought to attack next turn (off Scroll), Stifle for the Primetime trigger, and even Brazen to disappear it. Correct sequence after Stifle is attack with face-down Nought *only* and murder 6/6 tiny dude when it blocks (or they take 12) -> pass turn -> bounce Titan in enter combat step (if it's still alive), or even just threaten to block with 6 power [Factory + 2/2 + active Scroll] and say "your 2 tapped lands won't get you out of this." Rich's aggro-FoW on titan stranded Wasteland by itself (to kill a Cloudpost) instead of backing up Nought vs utility land (Chasm/Maze etc...). This is a good example of how a game falls apart when you don't leverage the tempo reservoir.

    Sideboarding: Moon is fine, but Alpine Moon name Cloudpost would have been better. My boarding would be +1 Moon, +2 Abrade, +2 Surgical. -3 Daze, -2 Standstill (if you had Snare, all 4 would have to come out first). Don't really like Surgical, but it can tag Cloudpost and plenty of dead cards. Narset is equivocal, but Ashiok I couldn't bring in fast enough.

    Game 2 I agree with FoW pitch Narset vs Needle. Wasteland into Stifle trap on Map was correct. In terms of manifesting Bolt or Stifle, I'd have kept Stifle in hand; both paths lead to victory due to earlier sequences.

    Game 3 don't ever keep that hand without Scroll. This should have been an easy match win.

    -Round 3 vs R/G Lands:
    Game 1 has no way to win (maindeck Needle on WL). Opponent commits Crop Rot for Stage on their turn vs Nought #1 which makes the next decision easy (to deploy Nought #2). The only other decision fork was to force through 12 dmg (Stifle the Maze) and hope to topdeck red source and another Bolt. Going for 2nd Nought is generally going to be the better line (particularly since Needle wasn't in the mix yet).

    Sideboarding: Do not like Rich's cutting Dreadnought at all in this m/u. The board plan should be close to auto-losing. For me it's +2 Abrade, +1 Moon (Alpine Moon name Stage would have been far superior, keeping them off Factory mimicry and combo), +1 Borrower, +3 Surgical, +1 Mountain. Bringing out as many Pierce and Daze and Standstill as I can. I don't even like Bolt much, but it allows Factory dominance vs Stage. I would 100% bring in Ashiok here, but we only have Narset.

    Game 2: I agree with the turn 2 Nought. While I understand the timing of Wasteland/Surgical Depths, after losing the Nought I'm fine leaving Wasteland "up" [they had Port] and forcing them to 'have it all' or hemorrhage cards and tempo into a Surgical trap. While this match is won with some fine time-out cheese, there are significant problems which arise from the perfect storm of cutting Noughts, going aggro on Depths, and not being able to challenge P-fire with Surgical (stranding Scroll). Rich demonstrates correct multi-turn planning theory, discussing the only out of manifest Nought, flip response to P-Fire, Stifle saved for Blast Zone. This is a good game to watch to understand the tempo reservoir; imagine if Blast Zone was not an onboard trick, Nought was in hand, and Scroll wasn't in play - there is no benefit to playing into things when you can wait for your hand to discover contingencies and/or other plans. The opponent really threw this game [and also the match] by siding out their best card: Field of the Dead. Let's be real, we know what that Choke got exchanged for.

    -Round 4 vs Chase [aka Stryfo]
    Game 1 both players exhibit excellent Stifle discipline for a few turns. There's a lot to be learned in the first 4 turns of this game. Going into turn 4 Rich kinda throws this game by chucking Wasteland at the Sea, particularly on Chase's end step. There are two best lines here. A) you draw up to 8 and discard Nought to hand size, then Wasteland Sea in their upkeep. B) cast Nought off Wasteland, and then choose a path as you Stifle. Either you murder countermagic with 2nd +/- 3rd Stifle on Nought trigger or use the situation to tag a Fetch and FoW or 2x Fetch. Given that this is Chase Hansen, the Dack Fayden guy, I'm never dumping a Nought into play without a way to stop a Dack cast and [-2]. Chase untaps and concedes; that Rich's sequence didn't backfire horribly is so incredibly lucky.

    Sideboarding (suspect Stryfo Pile): I'm never bringing in Moon vs a deck where I suspect Oko (thus Astro), and certainly not unless I'm 100% sure they don't have a single basic Island and Brazen Borrower (so like never against a 4-5c deck, which is why I'd never have it in the 75). Rich's SBing right here is night and day vs what I'd be doing. For me it's either -4 Nought/-1 Stifle/-2 Scroll/-1 Stifle/-1 FoW for +1 Narset/+1 Brazen/+4 REB/+2 Surgical/+1 Mag. Sinkhole *or* it's -2 Nought/-1 Scroll/-4 Bolt for +4 REB/+2 Surgical/+1 Narset.

    Game 2 Chase is on UB Reanimonster! Back to the board!

    SB: I'd do +3 Surgical/+1 Brazen/+1 Narset for -4 Bolt/-1 Delver. Option to add 1-2x REB would change cuts to -2/3 Standstill (Delver back in).

    Game 3 Jamming Scroll is optimal - that was a tough decision point, but Standstill in hand requires it. Now imagine Standstill isn't in hand; still correct to play Scroll b/c you can topdeck Standstill or Nought. This deck is all about managing the game such that all topdecks feed into the plan, and Rich's decision here is master level. Unfortunately, right afterwards Daze isn't used on Entomb, followed by an irrecoverable mistake to not let Exhume resolve granting Niv Mizzet vs REB in hand. This is the trap of playing normal legacy after that missed Daze, it really doesn't matter if Chase has Niv-Mizzet in play and draws some cards, you untap and it dies, and then Standstill comes down while Scroll takes over the game. That Daze on Entomb has to happen though, b/c any non-Pyroblastable [even Elesh Norn] would not be tolerable at that point in the game. That game should have ended with Surgical still in hand.

    -Round 5 vs UR CB/Delver/Dreadhorde/Portent
    There's a noticeable uptick in short-sighted plays, but I'd attribute that to fatigue. It's a good set of games to watch to see how not to use countermagic early and what happens when you aggro-Dreadnoughts without purpose. While an Abrade is never cast, just note how his countermagic use early could easily terminate in loss to Abrade later.
    ---
    In hindsight a 4-1 was likely achievable. With mastery of the deck a 5-0 perhaps was possible, but would have been difficult if first opponent wasn't on scoopzilla and the R/G player didn't board out Fields. More than anything, the confused sideboarding is what really led to the 2-3 finish. There's other ways to SB ofc, but the boarding needs to match the role the deck will assume. That was an adept league by Rich; interacting with stream on top of playing Dreadstill for the first time in a few years is no easy feat. Was fun to watch and analyze, thanks for taking Rood's sweet list out for a spin!

  17. #4397
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    @Tobitzki
    Looks pretty good. I think I'd do something like:
    -Breach: +1 Torpor, +3 REB, +3 yard hate. -4 Bolt, -2 Scroll, -1 Nought. If Brazen was wanted, I'd be looking at a Standstill and a Factory.
    -Loam: +1 Surgical, +1 EE, +2 Abrade, +2 Brazen. -2 Bolt, -2 Pierce, -1 Nought, -1 FoW. Don't really feel the need to bring in Crypt. Dismember coming in is fine, and don't mind experimenting with Tragic Lesson.
    -Painter: +1 Torpor, +2 Brazen, +2 Abrade, +1 Tragic Lesson. -1 Snare, -1 Scroll, -3 Daze, -1 Nought.
    -EurekaTell: +3 REB, +2 Borrower. -4 Bolt, -1 Snare.

    I feel fine leaving in all the Standstills vs those decks. Cutting down to 3x Standstill to try a new card is always going to be fine. The Loam sideboarding comes down to what you want to do with the Bolts; but the more you lay off their yard, the higher your Dreadnoughts count needs to be to take out Knight in combat. I generally like Daze against their nonstop 3 drops.

    @Crispymelee game rules dictate you have to reveal morph/manifest/Mask'd creatures at end of game. You don't have to tell an inattentive opponent to look at the card you flipped, but I'd leave it face up for a few seconds as you grab SB from deckbox.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    @Crispymelee game rules dictate you have to reveal morph/manifest/Mask'd creatures at end of game. You don't have to tell an inattentive opponent to look at the card you flipped, but I'd leave it face up for a few seconds as you grab SB from deckbox.
    I was totally unaware of this, thanks for the heads up!

    Hoping colo will chime in on the use of CB and your feedback as always is much appreciated. :)
    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

  19. #4399
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    My stream for anyone interested is @roodslay on twitch. gonna actually stream a league here right now and see what happens
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Rood View Post
    My stream for anyone interested is @roodslay on twitch. gonna actually stream a league here right now and see what happens
    Someone clip/record this! I'm still at work :( Would love to hear your decision making and thought process as you play it out Rood-man!
    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

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