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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #3681
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Good work Xod! Enchantress is a pretty not good matchup for us...you Really need a ton of
    Counterspells to make that matchup work. Spell Snare/Pierce are pretty good at slowing them down. You basically
    need to pray for a turn 2 Nought with 1-2 Counterspells in hand. Also they run stuff like Moat so TNN isn't exceptional
    either vs them. Some Suggestions for destroying that matchup

    -Pierces/Snares
    -EE (Explosives) Echoing Truth

    Standstill is the key towards beating that deck. It's our bread and butter here.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  2. #3682
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Nicely done, too bad about Enchantress though it's actually one of our better matchups (though any game loss will feel bad since it's generally to Emrakul or the 4/4 angels enchantment). How did the mana base, Izzet Charm, and Grim Lavamancers work out?

    @Rood notice the Vision Charm in the maindeck, and how Enchantress plays Utopia Sprawl - so even in game one, they can just lose to having 2+ Enchant Forest in their opener. There is also the enchantment to beat all enchantments in the board: Teferi's Realm - if this ever resolves (preferably protected with Stifle on their next turn) and makes it to your next upkeep, your Enchantress opponent is never going to have any global enchantments on your turn (and they'll never have a sorcery speed window of interaction with Realm again, so they better be playing Cast Out). Also in this matchup they only run about 3 wincons, two of which are counterable and the other is Emmy - an inexperienced pilot who ever discards Emmy to handsize generally auto-loses to Stifle vs the shuffle trigger; in a postboard game you still have the ability to hit Serra Sanctum with Surgical and it can be rather impossible for them to assemble 15 mana before decking out (you enter a competition of GSZ vs countermagic which terminates in "oh your deck is only 4 GSZ? Vision Charm, mill 4 -> Standstill, and uh I'll crack it." Double Standstill would also deck them out.)

    UR is a bit more boring and straightforward that UB versions, but pillow fort decks are a large reason for why I choose to run Wild Slash over a Bolt (this allows combat damage through Maze/Chasm/Solitary/Energy Field/blocking TNNs and Mother of Runes). UB gets DRS (there we'd use Teferi's Realm to stock a graveyard through active RiP), and in these strategies I'm much happier to run a card like Mind Bend and attack a strategy of fetching around Wasteland, and break their back if they were ever foolish enough to cast Choke.

    This is a rather large point of differentiation between your list (@Rood) and @Xod's. Your deck plays more like a cross between mono-U Delver (with Standstill) and Blue Moon (no Moon of course, but certainly the normal red cards of these lists), then you have added 4x Stifle and 4x Dreadnought...and it doesn't make a lot of sense how the moment you Stifle a fetch, a copy of Dreadnought will lose any ability to be put into play. Your deck's playstyle must be congruent with mono-U Delver/Blue Moon, and we see that in the 1-for-1 nature of the decklist, and even your last post you're talking about how you have to have all this 1-for-1 removal-based interaction vs Enchantress. That all makes sense for your deck, but dedicated Dreadnought decks don't answer problems [ideally], we ignore and invalidate them while warping the rules until the only text on Dreadnought is "casting cost . Trample. 12/12." - bending those rules generally cripples opposing decks as their cards stop doing what they say they do. Enchantress is a deck that has to do something, and it's pretty easy to disrupt, because the Dreadnought deck has the freedom to let cards like Enchantress effects resolve and stick around because it can invalidate their overarching game plan they want to draw into. The same can be said of Elves, where one of the rarest plays is to counter a Glimpse, because we just don't have to care.

  3. #3683

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Yeah I absolutely got the Wild Slash Idea. That Mind Bend is awesome.

    Must admit that against the Enchantress I was countering the early growths and such, to keep him from ramping and buying time for me. Which of course is horribly wrong (I get that now), and I just need to get those enchantments that exile Noughty countered. (also misplayed the misdirection in that game, again, the commandeer would be awesome) Btw, lost the game with him having 4 cards left in his deck and my topcard was the vision charm, dammit :-)

    Any ways, it's a cool deck, used to play UB as well, with 4 stifles and 3 charms, and 3 Tombstalkers, charm is amazing in that deck, or you enable protect your Nought, or you have fuel for Stalker.

    2 small points:
    - I saw in some earlier posts about phasing a Marit Lage out, actually with the rules from last year August, phasing a token out, doesn't take it out of exisistence. *sad face*
    - If the opponent has a CotV on 1 and you have an Illusionary Mask out, if I read the rulings correctly, do you need to pay 2 mana to cast that dreadnought (or another creature) face down? Because it does actually gets cast and can be countered. So in this case of X as 1, it get's countered by CotV on 1?

  4. #3684
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    2 small points:
    - I saw in some earlier posts about phasing a Marit Lage out, actually with the rules from last year August, phasing a token out, doesn't take it out of exisistence. *sad face*
    - If the opponent has a CotV on 1 and you have an Illusionary Mask out, if I read the rulings correctly, do you need to pay 2 mana to cast that dreadnought (or another creature) face down? Because it does actually gets cast and can be countered. So in this case of X as 1, it get's countered by CotV on 1?
    Yeah they really screwed up with the phasing rule change to make it token friendly (which makes no sense as these strategies are not meant to be played together)...Nothing got easier to understand in terms of Batterskull/Germ as you now have to go deep into the comprehensive rules to figure out what happens when Teferi's Protection tells both objects to phase out directly; if both did the equip would be broken, but if an object would phase out both directly and indirectly, it phases out indirectly instead - see didn't they make the rules easier....They actually increased the amount of times people have to navigate direct vs indirect phasing, instead of "just exile the token."

    The net effect of the change can best be summed up as "we're buffing the Marit Lage token" which is idiotic on a card that got banned out of a format [modern] before ever being legal, and doesn't need the help anyways. There's a litany of other problems with this change, but there's an entire thread on it somewhere. Probably not a productive use of time though since one side argues phasing is a status effect just like tapping/untapping [which is full of holes] versus the game mechanics dictating that it's a zone change in everything but formal name.

    The cmc of a face-down card is always 0, regardless of how much mana you've dumped into the Mask. There is also a difference between mana activating the Mask and the actual casting, which is why it doesn't play well with cards like Obscuring Aether.

  5. #3685
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Hi all, just making a quick foray into a Dreadstill deck. I am 4x Force of Will short of having a really decent list, working on it. My question to the folks in the thread: is a splash color necessary? I know red offers a lot of great options but the core of the deck is mono-blue. I'm trying to keep the core the same but use Dismember instead of Lightning Bolts.

    My starting list:

    4x Delver of Secrets
    4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
    2x Nimble Obstructionist
    2x Snapcaster Mage
    4x Stifle
    4x Daze
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Ponder
    4x Standstill
    3x Dismember
    2x Spell Pierce
    3x Counterspell
    4x Wasteland
    3x Mishra's Factory
    4x Flooded Strand
    9x Island

    Sideboard
    4x Misdirection
    2x Echoing Truth
    2x Ratchet Bomb
    2x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Tormod's Crypt
    3x Winter Orb
    1x Vendilion Clique


    So the Counterspells are there until I can get Forces. As you are probably thinking, yes, it's because I don't have blue duals that I want to make it mono-blue. I don't think the tradeoff is that severe for only Islands. This is definitely in the 'work-in-progress' stage. Curious what you think could be done, short of splashing a 2nd color, to make it better.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  6. #3686

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Curious what you think could be done, short of splashing a 2nd color, to make it better.
    True-Name Nemesis and more fetch lands for starters. Engineered Explosives for chalice and other things, Vapor Snag for marit lage. Maybe Vendilion Clique too. 3 Dismembers seems like a lot, I would start cutting from there and those Ponders (as you can see, other decks listed in this thread don’t play ponders at all).

  7. #3687
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Yan View Post
    True-Name Nemesis and more fetch lands for starters. Engineered Explosives for chalice and other things, Vapor Snag for marit lage. Maybe Vendilion Clique too. 3 Dismembers seems like a lot, I would start cutting from there and those Ponders (as you can see, other decks listed in this thread don’t play ponders at all).
    To follow up on that first point, no deck in legacy should use Brainstorm without a minimum of ~8 shuffle effects which push a game plan forward. This is most often fetching a land, but can include less intuitive interactions like Brainstorm -> Entomb. While Ponder does shuffle, the sequence of Bstorm into Ponder is tempo negative [on same turn] - so you're either playing Bstorm as a sorcery or you're only going to flush away one card; just be careful about counting Ponder as a key component of 8 shuffle effects. The eight, let's call them, "hard" shuffle effects isn't an official rule but looking across blue decks that perform well with cantrip cartel, but it's definitely a common theme one can quantify.

    As far as TNN + Delver in the same deck goes, look at what works in Delver decks and try to stay around 12-14 creatures total particularly because, unlike Delver decks, you're running more lands and Standstills which are antagonistic to flipping Delver. Engineered Explosives seems highly questionable in 2 color decks, and pointless in a 1 color deck. This list is already playing from behind so the blowout potential of Nimble Obstructionist, particularly under Standstill is far superior to Clique. As far as combo goes, there is only one card Storm decks use that can strip creatures: Cabal Therapy - they cannot win a game through Obstructionist in hand [with mana] as they will never resolve a storm trigger. I agree with @Yan on the Dismembers; you're not getting ahead by casting this card. The presence of Ponder should be looked at, but the more pressing issue is picking up lands [Daze] in a deck with Counterspell; those really have to be FoW.

    If you go U/R Grim Lavamancer will outperform Dismember, but you still have to solve the creature amount vs Delver issue. Izzet Charm is so much better than Pierce as you really can't stop in a Dreadnought deck to have kill spells that exist only to kill things; Lightning Bolt is playable in the U/R shell because it also hits players in a deck that is very much designed to count to 20, sometimes in chunks of 12. If you don't want to go red, look at a spell like Reality Shift which functions as removal, protection, and sometimes as a Stifle-effect - always choose hybrid engine/removal before dead cards like Vapor Snag. That slot was previously Reality Ripple, but due to poor rules update this spell no longer kills Marit Lage.

    In the board the total of four Misdirection effects, single Clique, and 2x Ratchet Bomb is perfectly reasonable. I'm not sure what Cage and Tormnod's are doing in there since a deck that can turn two a 12/12 with interfering countermagic. This strategy is more than enough to dismantle yard combos of any variety; Surgical is the card you want here. Echoing Truth is fairly useless [conventionally good cards do not perform well in unconventional decks]; Teferi's Realm solves more problems, Teferi's Response creates bigger blowouts, and if U/R just play Abrade. Winter Orb is as self-crippling as Blood Moon or Back to Basics.

  8. #3688
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Awesome responses, thanks! I will up fetch count, cut ponders, acquire forces, try vapor snag, etc.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #3689
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    If i played mono blue Id have 4 snags and 2 dismembers with the 3rd dismember in the SB.
    Back to Basics is also very good...id try at least 2 SB. Counterspell is bad in this deck...too many colorless sources
    And hard to cast to negate their 2 drop. Replace with Spell Snare or something else.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Thanks for that! I'm at 3/3 Dismember/Vapor Snag ATM; once again, without Force of Will I have to be creative on how I patch that hole. Spell Snare seems quite good, I was also thinking about Dispel, but I haven't seen Dispel anywhere, which I'm taking as a sign to avoid it.

    Some further questions:

    1) Is 7 fetchlands enough with Brainstorm? I have 7 blue fetches, it seems ok to me. How much do I lose without the 8th fetch?
    2) In the absence of Force of Will is Misdirection a better substitute maindeck than Spell Snare/Counterspell/etc?
    3) Is Mana Leak just plain bad? It seems fine in a format as low-to-the-ground as legacy is, and especially with mana denial. Easier to cast with colorless lands.
    4) Stubborn Denial and Not of this World seem a little too niche to me, but both work very well at protecting Dreadnought (minus Abrupt Decay.) Thoughts on those?

    For reference, I'm definitely working towards a set of Forces, I just need to convert other staples (extra Tarmogoyfs etc) to hopefully avoid actually dropping money on them.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  11. #3691
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    7 fetches should be fine. Mixing Misdirection and cards like Divert won't help that much vs storm, SnT, or JTMS but they generally blow out other strategies. If you use these effects you'll have access to alternative lines like turn 1 suicide Dreadnought -> redirect Reanimate/Animate Dead to Dreadnought. I would suggest either of those or Flusterstorm/Commandeer before Mana Leak...I'd even prefer Psychic Rebuttal (this one actually bounces back a Duress or K-Comm) or something off the wall like Sundial/Pact of Negation/Arcane Denial. Without FoW, I'd advise against trying to catch up with cards like Pierce/Snare; use cards that go for the win.

    Strategies and cards like Stubborn Denial and NotW, are generally opposed to non-UB approaches; mono-U and UR are not creative enough colors to get away with strategies like this in large part because they don't have undercosted ferocious creatures (beyond Dreadnought), nor do these colors have ideas of incorporating Dark Confidant...nor do other colors have the option to do the Stifle trick with a card like Hecatomb. Technically UG would also work, but the green cards do not yet exist which could provide adequate specialization [also DRS exists and forces UG to be BUG, destroying creative space].

    You'll probably find more wins by letting opponents beat themselves with their own unimaginative interactive spells, rather than creating an environment that undercosts stack interaction (those days mostly passed when they banned DTT and allowed fair, grindy nonsense back into the format).

  12. #3692
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    7 fetches should be fine. Mixing Misdirection and cards like Divert won't help that much vs storm, SnT, or JTMS but they generally blow out other strategies. If you use these effects you'll have access to alternative lines like turn 1 suicide Dreadnought -> redirect Reanimate/Animate Dead to Dreadnought. I would suggest either of those or Flusterstorm/Commandeer before Mana Leak...I'd even prefer Psychic Rebuttal (this one actually bounces back a Duress or K-Comm) or something off the wall like Sundial/Pact of Negation/Arcane Denial. Without FoW, I'd advise against trying to catch up with cards like Pierce/Snare; use cards that go for the win.

    Strategies and cards like Stubborn Denial and NotW, are generally opposed to non-UB approaches; mono-U and UR are not creative enough colors to get away with strategies like this in large part because they don't have undercosted ferocious creatures (beyond Dreadnought), nor do these colors have ideas of incorporating Dark Confidant...nor do other colors have the option to do the Stifle trick with a card like Hecatomb. Technically UG would also work, but the green cards do not yet exist which could provide adequate specialization [also DRS exists and forces UG to be BUG, destroying creative space].

    You'll probably find more wins by letting opponents beat themselves with their own unimaginative interactive spells, rather than creating an environment that undercosts stack interaction (those days mostly passed when they banned DTT and allowed fair, grindy nonsense back into the format).
    If going UB, has anyone attempted a Death's Shadow build? With fetches and shocklands it seems ridiculously easy to get him into big threat range, and with 8x big threats, Not of this World and Stubborn Denial get a lot better. It actually seems like a valid budget option if Death's Shadow becomes a legitimate legacy card.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  13. #3693

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Fox, I don't see how Wild Slash is any good against TNN or Mother (because of trample going through).

    Also how does teferi's realm protect you from sorcery speed interaction?

    As a sidenote, would Devastation Tide be a good 1 off in this deck? In the side or main. It is a answer to everything. You don't need to cast it if you draw it, you can brainstorm it back, and if draw of an standstill it you can still remove troublesome permanent. I think it's the best with 4 mana open. Cast the tide for miracle trigger, and then play a standstill or Noughty + Stifle.

    If you want to add green, I played a mossnought deck a while back, that is also an option.

  14. #3694
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    Fox, I don't see how Wild Slash is any good against TNN or Mother (because of trample going through).

    Also how does teferi's realm protect you from sorcery speed interaction?

    As a sidenote, would Devastation Tide be a good 1 off in this deck? In the side or main. It is a answer to everything. You don't need to cast it if you draw it, you can brainstorm it back, and if draw of an standstill it you can still remove troublesome permanent. I think it's the best with 4 mana open. Cast the tide for miracle trigger, and then play a standstill or Noughty + Stifle.

    If you want to add green, I played a mossnought deck a while back, that is also an option.
    What were you hiding under Mosswort Bridge? Emrakul? Was there a Show and Tell backup plan?
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    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  15. #3695
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    Fox, I don't see how Wild Slash is any good against TNN or Mother (because of trample going through).

    Also how does teferi's realm protect you from sorcery speed interaction?

    As a sidenote, would Devastation Tide be a good 1 off in this deck? In the side or main. It is a answer to everything. You don't need to cast it if you draw it, you can brainstorm it back, and if draw of an standstill it you can still remove troublesome permanent. I think it's the best with 4 mana open. Cast the tide for miracle trigger, and then play a standstill or Noughty + Stifle.

    If you want to add green, I played a mossnought deck a while back, that is also an option.
    Wild Slash is more there for a heavy Factory presence being fogged by TNN. That rarely happens and this card is more about ignoring pillow fort cards like Glacial Chasm, Energy Field, Solitary Confinement, and Maze of Ith. One damage lost by swapping a single Bolt for Wild Slash only costs win %age overall if you're facing non-stop Leovold; it's an easy way to make almost no sacrifice to access a novel way to win games. There is also the fringe option to go Dreadnought -> trigger on stack, Wild Slash -> sac, and attack with creatures already on board (Bolt can't create pseudo-Stifle lines of Dreadnought play).

    Realm gives opponent [discussing opponent on Enchantress] one turn to interact, then every upkeep you break symmetry and name enchantments - meaning they never get to see it at sorcery speed again. It protects itself, not you the player; it also obliterates any chance for opponents to protect themselves with stupid enchantment effects. Realm also turns nonsense like Humility and Overwhelming Splendor into Stifle effects for cheating in Dreadnoughts.

    Rather than Dev. Tide, I'd almost rather side in Parallax Tide, nuke 5 of their basics and Stifle the single return to play trigger. Dev. Tide isn't an instant so it doesn't really solve problems and allow you to Standstill right after. If I'm running green in Dreadnought, I'd rather play Greater Good; really what we're waiting for here is Momentous Fall [instant] to arrive at Life's Legacy cost. Mosswort Bridge tricks seem easier to pull off with SnT or Doomsday -> Shelldock, and none of that seems more powerful than turning Dreadnought into quad-Ancestral. Other options in UG are viable, but need more cards that don't exist yet so phasing/stasis prison and face-down centric strategies aren't playable yet. Technically phasing prison would be worth building with Sands of Time if they brought back mana burn.

    @Mr. Safety having played Shadow alongside Dreadnought, it doesn't really work as well as either Shadow [by itself] or UB Dreadnought/Confidant. There are definitely possibilities that can be built around; but as with UG strategies above, we're waiting on cards that don't exist yet. The concept is the same as Greater Good where for 1 mana you have a window with the number "12" on the table and you ask "how do I translate this P/T to 4x casting of Healing Salve/Dark Ritual/Lightning Bolt/Ancestral Recall" (multiplying Wild Growth is fairly pointless ~ see also Varolz). In the case of Shadow and life shenanigans we have seen two cards in magic [unplayable] which pair "when you gain x, opponent loses x" (within the context of sacrificing a Dreadnought to gain 12 at instant speed) and that's probably what you'd want to be able to build around. The nice thing about that concept is that they just printed Diamond Valley on the backside of a card that does something: Arguel's Blood Fast - this strategy is one that clearly favors Dreadnought + Shadow.

    edit: one more thing about Devastation Tide, I'd rather cast Reins of Power take their board and sac everything to a Dreadnought regardless of any amount of indestructibility or protection if we're living in christmasland. The main problem here isn't so much than mana-cost [let's be honest, you're probably stealing a Deathrite], but that you kind of need to be able to deploy Dreadnought at instant speed to murder Marit Lage/Elves/Entreat angels as they try to go to combat.

  16. #3696

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Realm gives opponent [discussing opponent on Enchantress] one turn to interact, then every upkeep you break symmetry and name enchantments - meaning they never get to see it at sorcery speed again. It protects itself, not you the player; it also obliterates any chance for opponents to protect themselves with stupid enchantment effects. Realm also turns nonsense like Humility and Overwhelming Splendor into Stifle effects for cheating in Dreadnoughts.
    Fox, I completely forgot that the Realm was only coming back in my untap step, sorry, brain fart :-)

    @Mr. Safety, this is the list I played:

    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    2 Tombstalker

    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Devastation Tide
    1 Reality Ripple
    1 Vision Charm

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Lim-Dûl's Vault

    1 Jace, the mind sculptor

    4 Mosswort Bridge
    2 Island
    1 Bayou
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta

    Sideboard
    4 Show and Tell
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Teferi's Realm

    With an end of the turn Lim Dul vault, you set up the kill and otherwise, blindly playing the bridge still gives you a very good chance of getting what you want (no in consideration that you can brainstorm something that you want there), since a Emmy or a Stifle/Ripple/Charm/Dreadnought is good enough. Play Dreadnought, in response to the trigger, activate Bridge and you either get Nought or Emrakul. And Emrakul counts as being casted.

  17. #3697

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Btw, against what decks do you use Commandeer against?
    Sure against the decks where a misdirection won't work because the card states 'target opponent' or 'X an opponent controls'.

    But do you also use it as FoW number 5 against permanent based decks like Food Chain or Show and Tell (stealing the Foodchain or Sneak Attack). If I read the ruling, it's also brilliant against PW's like Jace or Lily.

  18. #3698
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Commandeer is mostly for use against decks which are doing something too powerful that they can't control the damage when you turn their card against them. For example letting Reanimator go off, and then take control of [non-Exhume] reanimation effect to steal a Grisel. There are a number of linear combo decks which can't combat their own strategy, and because of that card quantity and value stops mattering. It's not just the Belchers of the format, but also any time you see someone trying to pull off things like hardcast Ugin, Counterbalance combo, decks that mind twist themselves and play Decay (Aggro Loam), decks using the card Sneak Attack (it's also just plain fun to activate Sneak knowing you can Stifle the sac trigger), and others.

    Some other scenarios:
    -This is a card you would bring in against Shardless, but not against Czech (they don't run draw 3's that are notorious for cracking Standstill, JTMS, and Decay).
    -Would bring in vs TES, but not against ANT (ANT has much more discard, cards that dig into discard, and is much less likely to go all-in on cards like AdNaus or tutors/wishes). The only exception I make for ANT is if the pilot clearly hasn't mastered their deck or is prone to overboarding.
    -Would not bring in vs Food Chain; the only way they can really win vs UR Dreadstill is Strix heavy openers which also dodge mana denial. They can certainly combo kill with Ballista, but their grindy plan of Manipulate Fate doesn't matter - like what are they going to do, put 12 toughness on the board, block a 12/12 and exile their guys so they can recast them and then take 12 trample to the face? Don't blow countermagic on cards that don't matter and you should have plenty of permission for the rest of what they're doing.
    -Would bring this in vs decks that try to lock you out with non-creature enchantments and artifacts. Decks like these are notorious for gifting you ways to kill them through their lock; red prison decks for example can't stop playing Chandra-ToD, bridgewalker decks notoriously run Tezz.

    Legacy is in a somewhat frustrating state right now where DRS + the value scum (Strix, Snapcaster, SFM) create environments hostile to decks that want to do neat things [that Dreadnought can exploit]. Then you have Delver, particularly variants with Probe/Therapy/Gurmag, also pushing out those same decks because they're dropping game enders on turn 1 instead of setup cards for a comprehensive strategy. The previous two strategies are naturally weak to Tundra (SCM/StP), and they mostly play infinite value Counterbalance which then really pushes out strategies Dreadnought decks want to play against. The current lack of creativity in legacy [Czech Pile's use of Hymn, Snap Hymn is particularly responsible] for cutting Commandeer for either another Divert or Misdirection in my sideboards of late.

  19. #3699

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    so 2 Misdirection + 1 divert or the other way around would be better than 1 commandeer, 1 misdirection, 1 divert (in the current meta)

  20. #3700
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    So with feedback from the fantastic folks here, this is my new list until I get Forces:

    4x Delver of Secrets
    4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
    2x Nimble Obstructionist
    4x Standstill
    4x Brainstorm
    2x Spell Snare
    2x Spell Pierce
    4x Daze
    4x Stifle
    4x Vapor Snag
    2x Dismember
    2x Counterspell
    2x Misdirection

    4x Wasteland
    2x Mishra's Factory
    4x Flooded Strand
    3x Scalding Tarn
    7x Island

    Sideboard
    2x Misdirection
    1x Vendilion Clique
    2x Ratchet Bomb
    2x Pithing Needle
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Dismember
    5x open


    So I cut ponder, added 3 more fetches, added 2x Mishra's Factory (can't believe I missed this one...), maindecked Misdirection x2, cut to only 2 counterspells (still good late game), and used Spell Snare to round out the counterspell suite. The sideboard is just a guess, and I took the advice of cutting cages for Surgicals. I didn't put in Vision Charm/Trickbind simply because I'm trying to use Obstructionist as Stifle 5+6 (and as additional threats.) This is also why only 2 factories instead of 4. I'm still iffy on TNN; it's not a budget issue, I just despise the card in general. Again, I know it needs FoW's, but any other advice, especially on the sideboard, would be greatly appreciated. What are people's thoughts on Snapcaster Mage in this style of deck?

    EDIT: Pact of Negation? Submerge? Invasive Surgery? Are any of these cards any good?
    Brainstorm Realist

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