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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #4081
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Thanks gentlemen, that's what I suspected. I have never used phasing in a comp-REL event so I wanted to be sure of any potential interactions.
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quick report: Went 3-1 today with my already-posted list (only change: swapping all copies of Dismember for copies of Reality Shift), beating Uw Merfolk 2-0, losing to UWr Snow Mentor Walker Control (0-2), and then winning against Hexdrinker RUG (2-0) and UR Delver (2-0). I won three games off of a "natural" turn two Phyrexian Dreadnought (with either Vision Charm or Stifle).

    I believe to have kept suboptimal hands against the Mentor list in both games and effectively lost to an unhandled Teferi, Time Raveler in game one, and an avalanche of walkers in game 2, after a Wear // Tear took care of both my Counterbalance and a Scroll of Fate after an exhaustive counter war over these resources.

    Edit: Thanks, H, for digging up my list!
    Last edited by colo; 10-03-2019 at 03:15 AM.

  3. #4083
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Colo, want to repost your list so we're all not scrolling forever?

    -Matt

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    Colo, want to repost your list so we can scroll of fate forever?

    -Matt
    Fixed that for you.
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post
    Quick report: Went 3-1 today with my already-posted list (only change: swapping all copies of Dismember for copies of Reality Shift), beating Uw Merfolk 2-0, losing to UWr Snow Mentor Walker Control (0-2), and then winning against Hexdrinker RUG (2-0) and UR Delver (2-0). I won three games off of a "natural" turn two Phyrexian Dreadnought (with either Vision Charm or Stifle).

    I believe to have kept suboptimal hands against the Mentor list in both games and effectively lost to an unhandled Teferi, Time Raveler in game one, and an avalanche of walkers in game 2, after a Wear // Tear took care of both my Counterbalance and a Scroll of Fate after an exhaustive counter war over these resources.

    Edit: Thanks, H, for digging up my list!
    Congrats on the result. I'll be happy to take even one match on the 13th if I'm perfectly honest. Looks like I'll be taking something very close to the following, where I'm expecting the meta to broadly look like 40/40/20 in terms of Midrange, Combo, Straight Aggro/Control. Gonna go with a UW build along the philosophy that the UW version is essentially a control deck that happens to pack Dreadnoughts as an option.

    Set Cards
    20
    3x Mishra's Factory
    3x Wasteland
    3x Prismatic Vista
    4x Flooded Strand
    1x Tundra
    4x Island
    1x Plains
    1x Karakas
    6
    3x Dreadnought
    3x Snapcaster Mage
    22
    4x Brainstorm
    4x StP (I remembered this time)
    4x Force of Will
    3x Counterspell
    3x Spell Snare
    4x Stifle
    9
    4x Standstill
    2x Teferi, Time Raveler
    3x Scroll of Fate

    Daze feels less great in a UW shell compared to UR, though CS could easily be some other kind of permission. That gives me 3 slots that I'm still undecided on among this pool:

    Karn, the Great Creator
    Small Teferi #3
    Vision Charm
    Scroll #4
    Dreadnought #4
    JtMS
    Big Teferi
    Azcanta???
    "Land"

    I'm feeling solid about +1 Karn, but undecided on the last two, leaning towards +1 Charm and +1 JtMS. Even considering a land since I'm trying to get to 3 or 4. SB to follow later.


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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    You're gonna need some Verdicts in there, likely at the cost of 2x Cspell slots. This is a pretty crucial aspect in non-Delver variants. Remaining Cspell slot + one of the Snare spots can become FoN x2. (There's no reason to skip easy wins vs recursive spells like P-Fire and Loam)

    I would try and get Teferi up to a 3x (likely cuts into Standstill numbers). Any Karn you'd want to add would come out of Scroll numbers. Dreadnought #4 would come from SCM #3 slot.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I will be updating the primer. If some of you guys wanna update the matchups you feel are good/Poor PM me. I will compile the MU based off everyones findings
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  9. #4089

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I picked up a set of Scroll of Fates and now brewing, so many options!

    a) A bit curious why we're not playing some amount of Voidmage Apprentice. If the plan is to sneak guys into play with Scroll, Apprentice manifests for 1U just like Stratus Dancer.

    b) Looking at Astral Drift. With Scroll, will sneak any permanent into play without casting. Cycling (even Cycling Astral Drift itself) is Standstill friendly and cannot be countered by normal countermagic. Also Sevinne's Reclamation has good targets including Scroll, Drift and Standstill.

    c) Perhaps Rule of Law in main or sideboard?

    d) Looking at green splash for Veils and Force of Vigors.

    e) Fathom Seer's body is poor but with the Scroll plan, it's pay 1U to draw 2 (or Gush).

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    a) Discussed a few pages back. Main takeaway is that a 2cmc 2/1 flying trades with Delver and they have to spend a card (or Wrenn -1) to deal with it ~ i.e. it is better by itself. Voidmage is not useful without Scroll. If you wanted A then B (Scroll then dude) construction, Willbender is more power/able to create a blowout.
    b) Astral Drift has to answer "why isn't this a Teferi?" You can't really stack the box at cmc 3 and be fast enough for legacy; those 3-drops really need to be creating velocity ~ advancing a gameplan.
    c) Rule of Law is...well not Deafening Silence
    d) I mean you could do green, but the interaction is pretty bad. It's also possible that the best thing you could be doing there is Stifle vs Lotus Field trigger, then drop Nissa of the 5/5s into play and make your own 5/5 hexproof. Veil would be fine, but green count for Vigor likely a problem.
    e) Fathom Seer is more like draw 2 and put other 2 cards [lands bounced] back down as 2/2s.

  11. #4091

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Ha! New cards, nice. So, what about Deafening Silence?

    Looking at the options for Astral Drift, is cheating in Archon of Valor's Reach a good answer for "Why not Teferi?"

  12. #4092
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    X-1 today. Lost in the finals to RB Hogaak stitcher. (This MU felt bad). I beat Storm and the new jeskai mentor deck. Hogaak and Dredge continue to be not great. I have a monthly today (Saturday) will update when I finish.

    I like Surgical but I wonder if Crypt isnt just better. I like it more vs Dredge and Hogaak.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  13. #4093
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by jiazhouhuaqiao View Post
    Looking at the options for Astral Drift, is cheating in Archon of Valor's Reach a good answer for "Why not Teferi?"
    The thing is that Astral Drift is unhelpful by itself, in the sense that it doesn't get you closer to winning. That it can do the whole 'build your own' Show and Tell with other moving pieces (A then B then C) doesn't really help its case. This is an effect we could hide in the mana base with Endless Sands or Safe Hollow + Scroll. Alternatively we could do the Mosswort Bridge thing or dump Ugin into play off of Planebound Accomplice (and Stifle the exile at EoT suggestion). The more strategies/contingencies you stack up on Scroll, the more you have to defend it; this kind of deckbuilding is fragile, and it's also being done around a 3 cmc card - this can't be effectively defended by Daze nor Delver ideas.

    Going back to the Nissa/Field example, you could cheat in the land with Stifle. Nissa the next turn, bash for 5 hexproof (or defend). Next turn float 3 white, +1 Nissa untap, and add 3 green and hardcast Archon. I don't think Archon really helps anything in that sequence, but you could do it. Astral Drift just doesn't advance gameplans while also providing new ways to 'go off' with cards that were already going to be in the list.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    b) Astral Drift has to answer "why isn't this a Teferi?" You can't really stack the box at cmc 3 and be fast enough for legacy; those 3-drops really need to be creating velocity ~ advancing a gameplan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    The thing is that Astral Drift is unhelpful by itself, in the sense that it doesn't get you closer to winning. That it can do the whole 'build your own' Show and Tell with other moving pieces (A then B then C) doesn't really help its case. This is an effect we could hide in the mana base with Endless Sands or Safe Hollow + Scroll. Alternatively we could do the Mosswort Bridge thing or dump Ugin into play off of Planebound Accomplice (and Stifle the exile at EoT suggestion).

    Astral Drift just doesn't advance gameplans while also providing new ways to 'go off' with cards that were already going to be in the list.
    I really appreciate your theoretical thoughts on deckbuilding. But aren't multiple ways to victory and redundancy a good thing?
    Concretely speaking, why not drop some Counterspells, Spell Snares, Vision Charms and Teferis (generally focus on protecting Dreadnought) for more pressure / alternative win conditions? (I mean if the Dreadnoughts get Extirpated, you are pretty helpless).
    Astral Drift might not be the best example, but is it wrong to think about dropping Countermagic for Vexing Devil, Eater of Days (both work with Scroll), Fling, Shapeshifter shenanigans and follow a more aggressive gameplan? Because theoretically it feels positive, if you can use your Scrolls for more cards than just Dreadnought.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by sco0ter View Post
    I really appreciate your theoretical thoughts on deckbuilding. But aren't multiple ways to victory and redundancy a good thing?
    Concretely speaking, why not drop some Counterspells, Spell Snares, Vision Charms and Teferis (generally focus on protecting Dreadnought) for more pressure / alternative win conditions? (I mean if the Dreadnoughts get Extirpated, you are pretty helpless).
    Astral Drift might not be the best example, but is it wrong to think about dropping Countermagic for Vexing Devil, Eater of Days (both work with Scroll), Fling, Shapeshifter shenanigans and follow a more aggressive gameplan? Because theoretically it feels positive, if you can use your Scrolls for more cards than just Dreadnought.
    If opponents want to remove the option of topdecking Nought from my deck, I'm quite happy. It doesn't stop Scroll of Fate or Factory, and now they made Dreadnought wish targets for Karn. The Noughts really aren't that important when it comes to how my deck wins games, they're just there. The same is true of UR Dreadstill, they're a counterburn deck and won't care if you thin their deck towards 1-card-combo damage sources by removing Nought. If your Dreadnought deck cares about Surgical effects on Nought, this points to deckbuilding error ~ high variance construction.

    I could certainly reward my opponents for playing an unimaginative pile of kill spells and Snapcasters and value cards by providing targets; but I'd rather they die with 7 of them in hand while I'm nuking their lands with Karn/Coating/Crucible and they can't cast a single interaction versus an EoT Scroll'd threat or Factory past Teferi. There's just something poetic beating people down with Factory and Dreadnought when there's nothing they can do about it. You really hope they get locked out by a Chalice deck in the next round, such that the idea of playing to win may blossom in their soul.

    Playing Merfolk (which on some level is how mono-U Nought operates, i.e. a hammer that can only hit nails) won't supplement other combo & prison decks in a local meta as we battle every week on our most holy crusade to push all boring do-nothing/value-duder decks to the bottom tables. Only then do we get to play what we will define as "real" legacy on the dimes of the apostates.

    Let the Phrexian Scriptures fill you, join the Great Work, and be initiated into the church of combo.
    Coming back to reality for a moment, using Scroll to blink-cheat threats into play is too slow and janky. You definitely get style points, but it's sadly just worse than Show and Tell and a somewhere around 2 turns [estimate] too slow to compete in legacy. Sadly we have to take cool ideas in legacy and admit when "dies to Goyf" applies.
    ----

    Went 2-1 today, just playing round robin with the other three that showed up. Meta was Wrenn and Strix, 4x Wrenn Delver, Moon Stompy, and myself on Manifest Destiny.

    -R1 vs Wrenn and Strix (1-2): win game 1 with ease b/c they try to kill Teferi #2 with flashback Decay [Stifle, can't respond] into Karn [can't respond] wish Crypt. Games 2 and 3 are fun and close, but they get there on mediocre beats as they were hit by RiP. Pretty dangerous matchup for them as they are potentially fetching basics and relying on Astrolabe vs a deck with Karn. It's nice that Strix is mostly gone from legacy while we wait for a playable desertcycling or Desert Fetchland to be printed; until then Mastery of the Unseen is the first card you reach for vs this style of deck. Both game 2 or 3 are likely winnable with a topdeck Verdict.
    -R2 vs Moon Stompy (2-0): with Teferi, Karn, and Scroll in deck they have very few cards that matter so precise countermagic is lethal. Game 2 opponent should have won after I missed maybe 5-ish land drops in a row, but they missed two of their Scan Clan triggers. Both games were mull to 6 for me, and game 2 hand was Karakas, Plow, Astrolabe, Teferi, FoW, FoN [Cursed Scroll to bottom of deck]; high risk keep but I was up a game on the draw [I would still keep this hand over mull to 5 against prison in future].
    -R3 vs 4c Wrenn Delver (2-1): lose the die roll and decide not to FoW a turn 1 Delver as I don't want to lose to Daze, Delver gets there (this might have been a mull to 6 hand for me, one of these 3 games was). Game 2 is a delightful cripple fight where we're both on 1 Fetch and can't topdeck lands forever (opponent won't Fetch into my Stifle, very well played by them), after 5 discards to hand size [2 by them, 2 by me] I find the combo...a basic Plains! I pass and they discard their to handsize for the third time [this is the 5th discard from previous sentence]. I choose to Brainstorm, giving them their land and things happen but they die to hardcast Dreadnought with Trop/Volc in play and a Decay in hand. Game 3 they have less severe mana issues, but a Wasteland on their Badlands [only tapped Volc left] will result with loss to Scroll'd 2/2 and a followup Standstill.

    These non-Titanic [i.e. NBC-RUG] decks with the RUG+B Wrenn core have pretty shaky mana bases in the face of their color reqs & sleeving up Wastelands; particularly if they're leaning on Astro against Karn/mana denial + attacking their yard. All 6 games felt fairly coin-flippy but quite manageable; no need to change the list as the matchup odds seemed reasonable*. JVP did nothing by himself, but he did devour a 4c Wrenn and Strix counterspell as Karakas was in play. Against 4c Wrenn Delver he did duress a Bolt, which was plenty acceptable when he wasn't a pitch card.

    *I doubt there is such thing as a better than 50:50 matchup vs tap-out-and-jam value piles, certainly not without making a deck that folds hard to sibeboard cards.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Looking at recent activity in t8's I think Stifle is going to be fairly good. I don't think there is any matchup where Stifle is an actually dead card, especially considering it can always feed Dreadnought. Storm seems to be getting some traction, which makes Stifle even better. I'm feeling really good about mono-blue right now, especially as I have an unhealthy amount of Moon Stompy and Lands in my metagame.
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  17. #4097

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Looking at recent activity in t8's I think Stifle is going to be fairly good. I don't think there is any matchup where Stifle is an actually dead card, especially considering it can always feed Dreadnought. Storm seems to be getting some traction, which makes Stifle even better. I'm feeling really good about mono-blue right now, especially as I have an unhealthy amount of Moon Stompy and Lands in my metagame.
    I'm actually not a fan of Mono Blue at the moment. The format is currently very aggressive, and having no answers to resolved threats (or minimal answers out of necessity because it'd be Mono Blue) just doesn't seem good. I think a splash for either red, green or black is a good idea. It doesn't overly destabilize the mana base and it gives you different avenues to explore with a wider swath of potent sideboard options.

    I'm not saying Mono Blue can't be good, I'm sure it's fine. But in playing it you're kind of pigeon-holing yourself into a limited space of sideboard cards that could be better in a wider meta situation.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    I'm actually not a fan of Mono Blue at the moment. The format is currently very aggressive, and having no answers to resolved threats (or minimal answers out of necessity because it'd be Mono Blue) just doesn't seem good. I think a splash for either red, green or black is a good idea. It doesn't overly destabilize the mana base and it gives you different avenues to explore with a wider swath of potent sideboard options.

    I'm not saying Mono Blue can't be good, I'm sure it's fine. But in playing it you're kind of pigeon-holing yourself into a limited space of sideboard cards that could be better in a wider meta situation.
    I don't disagree; I also don't have blue duals, lol. I'm all-in on blue.
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I don't disagree; I also don't have blue duals, lol. I'm all-in on blue.
    If budget is the biggest barrier to splashing a color, a playset of Prismatic Vista + whichever U/x fetch will fit your build is attainable for the cost of a dual, more or less. (Why ARE the enemy fetches so much more than the classic ally fetches anyways?).

    A trend I've noticed, at least for slower/control-oriented decks, is the cutting of duals for Vistas for a more resilient base. While even a light splash will never be as "safe" as a mono-X deck, I think the options it will give you coming out of the sideboard may well be worth it.

    EDIT: If you're just committed to mono-U though, more power to you!


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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by crispymelee View Post
    If budget is the biggest barrier to splashing a color, a playset of Prismatic Vista + whichever U/x fetch will fit your build is attainable for the cost of a dual, more or less. (Why ARE the enemy fetches so much more than the classic ally fetches anyways?).

    A trend I've noticed, at least for slower/control-oriented decks, is the cutting of duals for Vistas for a more resilient base. While even a light splash will never be as "safe" as a mono-X deck, I think the options it will give you coming out of the sideboard may well be worth it.

    EDIT: If you're just committed to mono-U though, more power to you!

    I have Scalding Tarns, Flooded Strands, and Misty Rainforests. Fetches aren't the issue, it's that I don't know if its worth making a sub-par mana-base to accommodate a splash color. With Volcanics? Sure, the splash is worth it. Without them, I don't know if it's better to just play Dismember (which I am doing currently.) Dismember does everything Bolt does other than deal 3 to the face, and even deals with bigger threats. The drawback of 4 life is significant if games go long, but I'm not intending them to go long. I play a more tempo-oriented version that is looking for a Dreadnought/Gargoyle to finish games quickly. Scroll spams the battlefield with 2/2's or enables Dreadnoughts. Also of note is that I am not playing Standstills currently, but rather Ponder based on my mediocre results with Standstill at the LGS.
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