[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[SMR0079]

Oh I should clarify. I really phrased that poorly before.

I am not against the splash for black. In fact, I love it. I just don't think that Extirpate is necessary. It's not a bad card or anything but the Survival match is already great and we don't need Extirpate to make it...even better.

Are you running Thoughtseize anywherebetween the main or SB?

[eluvial]

Maybe I just play bad but Jace seems underwhelming in the main. With so much aggro around he seems to get smashed so easily. Not to mention 4 mana is a LOT for this deck. Hell, it's harsh to try and find time to play EE on 3.

[SMR0079]

And while I do run Confidant, I definitely wouldn't cut Standstill or Mishra's Factory either. Factory is still a great card even without Standstill too.

Both Bob and Standstill? Interesting. I would think the benefits of running the full set of WAselands and having more colored mana stability would outweigh the benifits of Factory.

Could you PM me a list when convenient?

On Jace. I run 2 main with another in the board for the reasons you mentioned, but with ~ 13 cards that manipulate the library and diminish dead draws you cannot not afford to run it. In the control mirror I will often board out all but one Dreadnought and use Jace/Bob/Countertop to win the long game.

[Rico Suave]

"My" list is basically the same as Rich's list, aka The Atog Lord.

Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Artifact Creatures
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Creatures
3 Dark Confidant
2 Trinket Mage

Enchantments
3 Counterbalance
3 Standstill

Instants
4 Brainstorm
1 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind

Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Basic Lands
3 Island

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Peacekeeper
2 Spell Pierce
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Perish
1 Plains
1 Extirpate

And yes I know I said Extirpate isn't necessary. But that's because I feel this deck has a strong match against Survival decks, and besides there are already solid cards to board in for that match. 1 Extirpate is still fine. But I'd advise being careful about playing like 3 or 4, because even if I had room for that many Extirpates in my board I still wouldn't board them in because the maindeck cards are already great.

Thoughtseize isn't so bad. It's actually a pretty strong card against combo decks, but it's hard to justify playing it over Spell Pierce which is a lot more versatile and still effective against those combo decks.

Jace is pretty good for me. 4 mana is a lot, and sometimes he'll get boarded out. But he brings a lot to the deck too. For example I find that Jace is actually a very strong card in the Zoo match. And it's also important if we want to use Peacekeeper.

[SMR0079]

I'm running almost the same list as you minus the Standstill/Factory package.

I don't run Standstill because Folk and Goblins are both very popular in my metagame along with a personal distaste for the card in controling decks. Instead I have an additional Bob, Jace, Trickbind, and Needle main.

Speaking of the Merfolk match - I'm also on the Peacekeeoper plan but I find it hard to decide whether to leave in some number of dreadnoughts/stifle effects - or use all 4 Counterblance to help protect Peacekeeper/Jace.

[The Atog Lord]

Counterbalance is not at its best against Pithing Needle decks. And Dreadnought is very strong against Merfolk. I'd much rather retain Dreadnoughts against Merfolk than remove them in favor of Counterbalance.

[SMR0079]

Counterbalance is not at its best against Pithing Needle decks. And Dreadnought is very strong against Merfolk. I'd much rather retain Dreadnoughts against Merfolk than remove them in favor of Counterbalance.

I assume your reffering to Needle on Vial. I think this is generally true but the Peacekeeper plan disrupts this is logic. Once you resolve Peakkeeper Counterbalalnce ensures that it is protected against echoing truth or Swords (the best folk player in my meta splashes white). I realize this limits my ability to switch to the aggro role, but unsure whcih options gives yields a higher ev.

[Mister Agent]

Black splash Dreadstill is pretty nice right now definitely worth playing in a meta like this. Dark Confidants with Pates in the board is the shit.

I agree with this. Dark confidant kept you in the game alot of the time when I was testing against you with vengevine survival on mws. Also, you ripped me a new hole wth extirpate.

[Rico Suave]

I assume your reffering to Needle on Vial. I think this is generally true but the Peacekeeper plan disrupts this is logic. Once you resolve Peakkeeper Counterbalalnce ensures that it is protected against echoing truth or Swords (the best folk player in my meta splashes white). I realize this limits my ability to switch to the aggro role, but unsure whcih options gives yields a higher ev.

Even if you wanted to do this, and it was a good idea, it still makes no sense to board out Dreadnought. Stifle/Dreadnought is plan A. Peacekeeper is plan B. You are taking out plan A in order to better protect plan B.

[SMR0079]

Even if you wanted to do this, and it was a good idea, it still makes no sense to board out Dreadnought. Stifle/Dreadnought is plan A. Peacekeeper is plan B. You are taking out plan A in order to better protect plan B.

Well said. Against Folk - what do you think of boarding out the Bobs and leaving CB in to protect Peacekeeper? Without a basic swamp you are opening your self to getting waste-dazed out of the game. This way you get basics in UUW by turn three improving the chances of resolving your Peacekeeper should plan A not work out.

[Rico Suave]

I like Bob against Merfolk. In fact, I like him very much because I tend to board out Standstill against them, and Bob helps me maintain an element of card draw which might otherwise be missing. You see this is still a combo deck, and in order for a combo deck to work there needs to be some form of card manipulation, draw, or digging power.

CB is great in a number of matches, but not against a deck aiming to use Aether Vial. Will your CB have some use against Merfolk? Sure. Is it good enough to remain in the deck? Not really. I would not be looking to keep CB in that match because it's just not good, and I would certainly avoid taking out good cards to keep it in, but if you are desperate to keep CB then maybe you should look to take out mediocre cards. If you truly fear StP then maybe you don't need Spell Snare.

[SMR0079]

I made top 8 with this past weekend running Bobs no Standstill/Factories. 4-0-1 in the swiss lost to Tezzerator in the first round afterbeating him in the first ournd and earlier in the week at another small event - he won the match that mattered the most but we agreed that it's tilted in Dreadstills favor. My matchups were as follows:

Tezzerator
Storm
Storm
Thopterbalance
Draw
Loss to Tezzerator

Game 2 in top8 I had the game virtually one with JAce going ultimate next turn and a Extirpate in hand to stop him from using academy ruins to get pithing needle back naming Jace. Ifetch for my black source to extitpate and fail to find :(. I had cut the 4th Sea for a 9th fetch and lost because I forgot this. I am definitly adding another balck source possibly a swamp.

Thoughts on the deck. It's very strong in the current Survival combo metagame and hasthe edge in most control matchups. I cut the Standstills as my local meta tends to have lots of Fish/Goblins. If Survival does get banned and aggro Zoo/Tribal becomes popular again the deck will have to be retooled to have a better Zoo/tribal match maybe splahing red for firespout.

As an aside, I have to say that this is probably my favorite deck I have ever played in Legacy and I've been around for a long time. It's a beatiful thing when I finish a game with a board consisting of Countertop, Bob, JAce, and Dreadnought.

[GoldenCid]

2 Spell Snare
2 Daze

2-3 Spell Snare
2 Daze

Why run this configuration? Isn't beeter cut at all daze for other utilities such as Trygon predator or Clique??

[keys]

Why run this configuration? Isn't beeter cut at all daze for other utilities such as Trygon predator or Clique??

Daze can be a hard counter after Stifling and Wasting a couple lands. Free counters are also clutch when drawn off a Standstill. The utility of Trygon just isn't necessary, and most people prefer jace over clique as an additional win con because he wins outside of the combat step thereby providing some threat diversity, in addition to being a pretty decent draw engine.

[GoldenCid]

Daze can be a hard counter after Stifling and Wasting a couple lands. Free counters are also clutch when drawn off a Standstill. The utility of Trygon just isn't necessary, and most people prefer jace over clique as an additional win con because he wins outside of the combat step thereby providing some threat diversity, in addition to being a pretty decent draw engine.

So why snare?? What i can get is the supposed consistency of running 2x of a counter that in mid game is useless.

[lorddotm]

So why snare?? What i can get is the supposed consistency of running 2x of a counter that in mid game is useless.

Countering Goyf, Confidant, Survival, Pridemage, Counterbalance, Infernal Tutor, or Burning Wish is good at any point in the game. There are of course other targets too.

[GoldenCid]

Countering Goyf, Confidant, Survival, Pridemage, Counterbalance, Infernal Tutor, or Burning Wish is good at any point in the game. There are of course other targets too.

My question was sacarstical...i understand the snares but why would you want a counter (daze) that only worth in the first turns in 2 copies. Even spell pierce sounds me better. That is why i said cutting daze for 2 clique (running jace too)

[J.V.]

Deterrence is why one would play two dazes. By playing two it will show up enough that your opponents will see it and be forced to play around it, however since you are only running two you wont have be in the situation where you are drawing too many dazes in the late game when it is bad.

[GoldenCid]

Deterrence is why one would play two dazes. By playing two it will show up enough that your opponents will see it and be forced to play around it, however since you are only running two you wont have be in the situation where you are drawing too many dazes in the late game when it is bad.

But if you run just two, you decrease the probabilities to hit it in the turns where it's still useful. But if you think that it's a right number it's ok.

[keys]

You can sideboard them out on the draw, or in matchups where your LD is less effective, and the opponent will sometimes play around them anyway.