[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[Hopo]

The only advantage I see in Snapcaster is that 1) I like his name 2) pitches to fow.

How many copies does this statement apply to? Snapcaster just isn't an automatic 4-of. 2 Mages is actually quite solid number. It lets you use your Stifles in the early game just for disruption and by the time you're ready for a dreadnought, you can snap a used Stifle to do that. Snapcaster is really awkward in the opening hand as you cannot profitably use it before you have three lands in play anyway, four if you try to play a dreadnought with it.

Grim Lavamancer is good. It's only downside is that it might empty your graveyard and leave fewer options for Snapcaster Mage. That's also one fo the reasons you shouldn't play 4 snapcasters.

[kiblast]

Kiblast, I'm curious to see your spells with this creature package. I would assume it's very close to Roodmistah's. Is that correct?

Roodmistah's package:

/ Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [JGC] Stifle
1 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [4E] Lightning Bolt
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [DD2] Daze

MIne:

-------those are obvious and uncuttable------
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Fow
1 Trickbind
3 Daze
3 Snare
-------different slots-------
4 Black spot removals ( I'm testing Go For the Throat at the moment since costs less than Dismember when Bobflipped, and has less important restrictions than Ghastly Demise. I even tried a split 1 GftT, 1 Ghastly ,2 Dismember with nice results. A 2/2 GftT/Dismember split seems viable also.)
3 Fire//Ice (does everything minus cleaning my room, but that's what moms are for)


I feel more confortable with this configuration when I need to beat the early game against Merfolk or Maverick, and when I need to flip an early Delver of Secrets (more istants,less Standstills, I didnt test Standstill build but I prefer to cut them for more Delver synergy, and anyway I think that there are plenty of decks which work better under Standstill: BUGstill, most UWstill versions, Merfolk and Goblins just to name a few...).

How many copies does this statement apply to? Snapcaster just isn't an automatic 4-of. 2 Mages is actually quite solid number. It lets you use your Stifles in the early game just for disruption and by the time you're ready for a dreadnought, you can snap a used Stifle to do that. Snapcaster is really awkward in the opening hand as you cannot profitably use it before you have three lands in play anyway, four if you try to play a dreadnought with it.

Grim Lavamancer is good. It's only downside is that it might empty your graveyard and leave fewer options for Snapcaster Mage. That's also one fo the reasons you shouldn't play 4 snapcasters.

The point is that it's difficult to understand what to cut to fit at least 2 Snappy. Moreover, playing Snapcaster will force you playing at least 21 lands, without considering random crap like Riptide Lab...I play 20 so I would need to make room for one more land too. Cutting Spot removals or Lavamancer for a situational Snapcaster seems not the right choice. Even cutting Bob seems a bad choice considering the impact that an early Bob has on the board.If I'd reallyhave to cut 2 slots to fit something, I'd rather stick 2 JTMS in those slots.

[Hopo]

The point is that it's difficult to understand what to cut to fit at least 2 Snappy. Moreover, playing Snapcaster will force you playing at least 21 lands, without considering random crap like Riptide Lab...I play 20 so I would need to make room for one more land too. Cutting Spot removals or Lavamancer for a situational Snapcaster seems not the right choice. Even cutting Bob seems a bad choice considering the impact that an early Bob has on the board.If I'd reallyhave to cut 2 slots to fit something, I'd rather stick 2 JTMS in those slots.

Of course it's not mandatory to play any Snapcasters, but I really think that if you want to play it somewhere, that would definitely be in a Stifle deck.

About cutting removal for situational Snapcaster: black removal is situational. It will always be a dead draw against storm combo, Hivemind and some control decks. Snapcaster is always at least a threath. Therefore I don't follow that logic. Confidants of course shouldn't be cut, as it's the only way the deck has to draw cards if you don't want to support Standstill with several other slots.

[kiblast]

Of course it's not mandatory to play any Snapcasters, but I really think that if you want to play it somewhere, that would definitely be in a Stifle deck.

About cutting removal for situational Snapcaster: black removal is situational. It will always be a dead draw against storm combo, Hivemind and some control decks. Snapcaster is always at least a threath. Therefore I don't follow that logic. Confidants of course shouldn't be cut, as it's the only way the deck has to draw cards if you don't want to support Standstill with several other slots.

My meta is pretty aggro-ish so Black spot removal are needed to top8 a 6 swiss tournament where you face 1 Maverick 2 Merfolk 2 Patriot and 1 Combo/Control deck.
And by the way, you can easily cut the spot removals to fit Bolts wich are not a dead draw even in the combo or control matchup.

[Scrum]

Congradulations Kiblast. I saw your win on magic league. I like the list. I played a version with white for stoneforge and swords. Snapcatser was amazing for me. How was he for you?

[dsck]

I'll be playing the following list tomorrow, any recommendations? Something that sticks out and seems bad?

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Snapcaster Mage

4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
3 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor

3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
7 Fetch
5 Island
1 Mountain
2 Volcanic Island

SB:
3 Submerge
3 REB
3 Spell Pierce
2 Energy Flux (Thopter Foundry, affinity)
4 Grave hate (Crypts etc.)

I dont want to play more than 7 non-blue sources, otherwise I'd run 4 factories. The basic mountain is a must because of Lavamancers. No Surgical Extractions in SB because of the low Snapcaster count.

[kiblast]

Congradulations Kiblast. I saw your win on magic league. I like the list. I played a version with white for stoneforge and swords. Snapcatser was amazing for me. How was he for you?

Ty. Snapcaster was very good, but I'll keep its count at 2. sometimes it clogs your hand and it's terrible when you see multiples at the same time.

Dsck, why the single JTMS? I see your deck could easily play as a landstill deck with Nought wincon/ JTMS backup. I'd add another Jace maybe cutting a Daze/ the Snapcaster.

[Hopo]

I'll be playing the following list tomorrow, any recommendations? Something that sticks out and seems bad?

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Snapcaster Mage

4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
2 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
3 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor

3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
7 Fetch
5 Island
1 Mountain
2 Volcanic Island

Delver + Standstill looks solid, how did they perform? I still feel that Standstill is lacking now. Also, at the moment I wouldn't play UR without Fire/Ice. The card has been performing really good for me. It's the card that helps you win the damage race against basically any aggro deck. Ice has great extra synergy with Daze and in later game it becomes a solid target for Snapcaster.

Also, I prefer to see a lot of 4-of's in any deck.

[dsck]

2-3 drop, Lost to Maverick, Dredge and Reanimator. Standstills were bad in all games.

[sdematt]

I don't think the meta is right for Standstill, as of yet.

-Matt

[death]

(P.D. in the red zone for lethal)

Fighting fire w/ fire! err Fighting Brainstorm w/ Brainstorm? (not catchy i know ;))

I ended up testing good decks (non-) that aren't essentially Maverick to power through the sea of RUG & BUG, and failed. I squinched everytime I opened with a semi-playable, 'play with whatever you draw'-hand which ultimately hurt with the absence of a fucking library manipulator. Being Brainstorm-less is agonizing do you concur? Anyway, I felt that Dreadnoughts can squeeze in games against the 3/2 insect flyers. Snapcasted Lightning Bolts or Dismembers aren't enough to dismantle the 12/12 body -obviously. This deck also has combo by its neck. The problem that remains now is Swords to Plowshares, and by that I mean 8x Snapcasted-Plowshares.

The card I find to have an amazing synergy (together with Misdirection/Flusterstorm) with the `noughts:

Trickbind is an auto-include for being Split second. Should we play Snapcaster Mage too? I think with the amount of cantrips + enablers it is not required. It can be too clunky and slow for this archetype.



I was too eager to counter every spell my opponent is throwing at me that I misplayed a counter. But I did take it as Daze on Stifle. He misplayed his counters too and I won because of that.



edit - Just bought a playset of Jap foil NotW!!

[Tammit67]

The best way to beat plows/snapcaster is just good old CB

[death]

HOw about dealing with JAce TMs, Qasali..?

[sdematt]

Hopo and I have been testing a few different lists, and they've been doing really well. Not sure if it is time to share it yet, but a few points:

-Counterbalance is slow to set up, but does deal with removal question.
-I don't think Snapcaster is needed, and I'd rather be doing something AGAINST Snapcaster.
-You should be playing Grixis, since Grim is such a beating against those decks, Bolt gives you so much reach, Fire/Ice is amazing, and Dark Confidant is the tits. Plus, you get Perish/Virtue's Ruin out of the board. Fuck yeah.

Let's put it this way. Last night, I cast three Dreadnoughts on Turn 3. Suffice to say, there was a small, meaningless counterwar that ended in me facepounding next turn for 36.

-Matt

[Tammit67]

HOw about dealing with JAce TMs, Qasali..?

Stifle, bolt, pyroblast, daze, force, snare, pierce, counterbalance, pithing needle?

Solutions exist, and they aren't terribly narrow. Not saying naught isn't fragile, because he is, but that is what you get for the 12/12.

I dont like Not of this world as a solution though, no versitility.

[Scrum]

Hopo and I have been testing a few different lists, and they've been doing really well. Not sure if it is time to share it yet, but a few points:

-Counterbalance is slow to set up, but does deal with removal question.
-I don't think Snapcaster is needed, and I'd rather be doing something AGAINST Snapcaster.
-You should be playing Grixis, since Grim is such a beating against those decks, Bolt gives you so much reach, Fire/Ice is amazing, and Dark Confidant is the tits. Plus, you get Perish/Virtue's Ruin out of the board. Fuck yeah.

Let's put it this way. Last night, I cast three Dreadnoughts on Turn 3. Suffice to say, there was a small, meaningless counterwar that ended in me facepounding next turn for 36.

-Matt

I am curious as too how you played 3 Dreadnoughts on turn 3. Did you triple stifle with lotus petals, dark ritual out a Torpor Ord or Illusionary Mask?

I have been playing white for some time now and it has been awesome for me. Stoneforge Mystic has been very impressive.

I am going to try the Red splash for a while.

I am up for playing the most powerful version of Dreadnought; white or red. I have tested the Illusionary Mask and it has been pretty good. I do agree that no matter what colors you plat 4x Dark Confidants is a must. He is quite amazing.

If you don't mind, sdematt, I would love to share some lists with you. I can send you mine and maybe i can see yours. Its hard for me to playtest where I live, but I'm down for testing on the net. Let me know. Thanks!

[sdematt]

Sure, send me a PM and we'll talk.

I think Mask is a piece of garbage, I think Torpor Orb has TONS of value right now, considering all the Snapcaster, SFM, Ringleader, Reejerey, etc. Plus, it means your Stifles aren't as hindered by the "I need to keep these for Dreadnought" dilemma.

-Matt

[Hopo]

Mask really has nothing speaking for itself. Torpor Orb is a lot better with the added benefit of shutting down dominant, opposing strategies and nuisances.

[sdematt]

Torpor Orb has been really good thusfar. I think if you're looking to play a more controlling build, I think you should definitely go with Orb; I still think there is a viable tempo oriented build with Delver, but I'm not sure if it's AS good as it could be.

Also, there's a certain card that protects your creatures like a champ. We're trying it; it's great.

In addition to this, Vision Charm can be the tits. So far, I've had really great success either a) dodging removal, b) cheating Nought into play, c) Phasing out a piece of Equipment (doesn't trigger Living Weapon on the way in), or d) Screwing over their manabase for a turn. Giving me more red for a turn vs. Merfolk was pretty decent, and turning off Islandwalk was brutal :P

-Matt

[TnA_Will]

Here is an Orb list I ran at GP RH and ended up going 3-4 with. Every game(not match but GAME) I lost was my own doing, due to my wife telling me she has had enough and was threatining to leave, talk about TILT weekend.... Some of the boneheaded plays was thinking a perish would hit Sylvian Library, among other full on tilt plays….
I have no doubt the deck is extremely solid and can do very well in the right pilot's hands! The only change is Misstep is now banned so -4 misstep, in +3 Delver of Secrets, +1 Spell Snare

61 Total

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
4 Hymm to Tourach
2 Go For the Throat
4 Force of Will

Planeswalkers:
2 Jace TMS

Artifacts:
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Torpor Orb

Creatures:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Delver of Secrets
2 Hunted Horror
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Lands:
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Flats
4 Underground Sea

SideBoard:
2 Darkblast
3 Misdirection
3 Peacekeeper
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Perish