[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[sdematt]

I was thinking of a list like this:

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Ghastly Demise
2 Torpor Orb
1 Sensei's Divining Top

BOARD

2 Virtue's Ruin
1 Firespout
2 Pyroblast
2 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extractoin
2 Mogg Salvage
1 Torpor Orb
2 Open

Thoughts?

-Matt

[Jay_Gatz]

No lavamen in the 75?

[sdematt]

I want 'em, but they could be my two free slots.

-Matt

[Blitzbold]

We're brewing something very similar at the moment. This is especially because Torpor Orb is really nice in the current meta where a lot of cip-triggers are abused (Stoneforge, Snapcaster, Clique...), and Dreadnought is still a blistering fast threat.

After looking through your proposed list we aren't sure about the purpose of Kira. She is great in protecting your threats, sure, but she's a 3 cmc critter herself and therefore a lot slower than every other creature in the deck. Maybe 2 maindeck Lavamancer would be better (with 2x Kira in the board obv.). This way 19 lands might be enough, opening a slot for a Ponder maybe?

I also think that your number of cantrips and library manipulation is too low. This way you'll be drawing unusable Noughts when, for example, you're executing the tempo plan early in the game.

[sdematt]

I've really been enjoying the list. I ground out some games against Maverick and RUG Tempo yesterday. The biggest weapon they actually have against you: Thalia. That card is pretty fucking insane with Mother of Runes. It slows you down so much and you have to tap out so often, you basically get no value out of your counterspells. It's pretty miserable. Plus, they just use Scryb Ranger to get around Kira.

But, overall, when it did matter, Kira was insane. Needing 2 Swords was awful for them.

My thoughts were this. Red could be switched for White, and Kira for Mother of Runes. You'd also gain access to Swords, but it means Dreadnought wouldn't get there as fast, as well. I usually won the game in 1 Dreadnought hit, usually since either Confidants, Bolts, or Delvers had already started to get there. The Torbs are amazing. Shutting down all that removal is pretty awesome.

Against Stoneblade, being on the tempo plan is great. Sometimes you just roll them, and Kira stops the Jace-bounce.

Demise was great as well, there wasn't a time for me when it was awful. The only problem with Kira: costing 3. If she was 2, well, it'd be playable in everything

---

In case people are wondering why you'd want to play this pile, think of it like this: Delver can't beat a resolved Dreadnought and their Snapcasters being useless actually is a problem. You're faster than Burn. You beat up combo. You play Dark Confidant and draw more cards than most other decks. You can go on the Delver plan and get there, or run off the land Dreadnought, protect it plan. You have a quick clock against Dredge. The only matchups you really lack in are Maverick and to some extent, Stoneblade. I think with some tuning of the sideboard, you can do just fine against Maverick.

-Matt

[dsck]

I think the UB version which won russian nationals is a lot better than running cmc2 targets for snare. Playing it almost felt like playing UR Nought 3-4 years ago.

[sdematt]

What's the list for Russian Nationals?

I'll answer my own question:

3 Tombstalker
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Instants [21]
2 Spell Snare
3 Snuff Out
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

Sorceries [8]
2 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Inquisition of Kozilek



Artifacts [2]
2 Torpor Orb

Lands [18]
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Swamp
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

BOARD-------

2 Perish
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Spell Pierce
3 Massacre
2 Reanimate
2 Counterbalance

I do love this list, but running Confidant is the tits. I really love having Red for some reach though, and Mogg Salvage out of the board is the tits. I actually really love the Reanimate tech, since Reanimating a Knight/Goyf could be awesome, nevermind a Nought.

[Rood]

I'll post an updated list for you guys after tomorrow's tourny I'm going to. Sad to see lots of familiar cards go, but they are simple outclassed now by better cards.

[Blitzbold]

This is the list I am currently testing, which is highly influenced by both the Russian list as well as your latest brew.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Dark Confidant

4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt

2 Torpor Orb

3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Swamp / Badlands
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire

SB 3 Vendilion Clique
SB 3 Spell Pierce
SB 1 Rushing River
SB 1 Perish
SB 1 Virtue's Ruin
SB 2 Darblast
SB 1 Surgical Extraction
SB 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB 1 Engineered Explosives


Until now the list feels solid, but I am not sure whether red is needed at all. Increased range is very nice to have, and theoretically one hit of each Delver, Nought, Bolt and Bob (or 2x Fetch from opponent) already seals the deal. On the other hand, Dreadnought is a blistering fast kill all alone if it sticks.

I am raising this question especially because our draft of a board doesn't contain a single red card. Cutting Red would allow to raise IoK to 4, which where amazing during testing. If maindecking removal in straight UB, I'd go for either Demise, Dismember or bounce (I love R. River as an catch-all) - or a mixture of those.

The sideboard is a rough draft, but allows boarding out the whole artifacts for example, thus blanking possibly boarded hate. Should there be a third game, the opponent has to guess wether you are on Noughts or going the more controllish route incluiding Clique.

The only red cards we considered for the board were REBs and Salvage.

-> regarding blasts: when playing tempo I seldom find enough space to board in both REBs and Pierce, as they perform very similarily. Pierces are able to answer random stuff like Pox, Hymns and so on where REB's wouldn't do anything. Blue permanents should be managable when correctly using the tempo package.
-> regarding artifact hate: which one do you fear when swinging with a Nought?

[Rood]

This is the 75 I'm running, for all those still interested.

// Lands
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
3 [TE] Wasteland
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [JGC] Polluted Delta
5 [IN] Island (3)
2 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [RAV] Mountain (1)

// Creatures
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [M12] Grim Lavamancer

// Spells
4 [JGC] Stifle
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
1 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [CS] Counterbalance
SB: 3 [U] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [4E] Lightning Bolt
SB: 1 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe

I mean running a 3/2 split of bolt to dismember SB is totally a meta call. If you're meta is infested with G/w then I could totally see a 4/1 or 3/2 split in favor of dismember. Grim Lavamancer/Delvers are absolutely insane 1 drops because not only do they control/clock oponents quickly but they makes T2 Standstill so much stronger than it already was in this deck.

EDIT: Updated primer to include current list.

[Tammit67]

I love that list Roodmistah

[sadface]

This is the 75 I'm running, for all those still interested.

Finally a list that actually belongs in the thread.

What are your thoughts on Torpor Orb? Not strong enough in the current meta to warrant an inclusion?

[Jackehehe]

what is the purpose of counterbalance in this list, nowadays? wouldnt it be better just to skip it + top completely now? seems a bit out of place to only play 2/2, with CB being in the bord.

If I recall correctly, the original purpose with CBtop was to protect your nought. Well, seems like we have other (more) win cons now, so is it really needed?

[Rood]

Going to address these real fast

-Torpor Orb: Fine card, probally a worthy subsitute for Trickbind as well. Haven't tested this guy much but I'd say definetally a strong option at shutting down Snappies, V-cliques, Stoneforges as well.

-Counterbalance/Top: Even though this isn't a core strategy to the lists of old of Dreadstill it's still absolutely crucial to have some amount in the MD/SB. You simple cannot beat U/w Stoneforge postboard without it. They run 8 Swords +4 Snapcaster mages so goodluck if you manage to. Not to mention it still hoses the likes of RUG too as well as all forms of combo (High tide resurgence much?.) Top is also extremely valuable to flip Delvers as well as being key in control matchups.

[sdematt]

You also bring it in against RUG, since they're all 1's and 2's. You can just lock them out of the game.

-Matt

[kingsey]

has anyone who went UB tried bump in the night? adds reach while staying in color.

I love to see dreadnoughts being played again. I think spell peirce is important for us to push the orb thru opponents spell snares.

[sdematt]

My board includes a full set.

Also good for countering the Jaces, Swords, and Counterbalances that screw us over.

-Matt

[kingsey]

Matt whats your current list look like?

I've been playing UBr i even picked up a NM german badlands

aggro based

3 tombstalker
4 delver
3 clique

[sdematt]

I'm trying a straight-up UB just to see how I like it, so literally at this very moment, my list:

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
2 Ponder
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Torpor Orb

4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea


--Board--

3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Torpor Orb
2 Massacre
1 Virtue's Ruin
4 Spell Pierce
2 Vendilion Clique

Basically, in the Stoneblade matchup, you bring in Pierces, Cliques, and Torpor Orb and the CounterTop package, ideally. 12 cards seems like a fuck-ton, which it may very well be, but I guess you can't go wrong with overkill :P

I'm thinking in that game, you probably bring out your removal (-3), Ponders (-2), Daze (-3), a Dreadnought (-1), and 3 other cards, if you can find them. Basically, you want to set up and then murder them. I'm not really sure if you want to be the super aggro deck here. I think you basically want to land the Dreadnought (or work on them a bit with Delvers), and hopefully assemble advantage with Orb and Counterbalance. Your try to Pierce Jace off the table, and Counterbalance on 1 against Swords. Even if they have the Batterskull, as long as you can lay Nought, you should be fine, since they can only negate 4 of every 12 (netting 8), but then they have to bounce the Batterskull, eating up precious mana (hopefully you have T. Orb so they never getting more equipment, but...)

Clique with Orb might be a tad awkward, but I'm thinking here you'll want to peek if and when you can to see if the coast is clear, and if it doesn't, you've got 3/1 flyer that attacks Jace.

-Matt

[Iron Buddha]

//18
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

//8
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

//12
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Mother of Runes

//22
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind


Lingering Soul kicks Delver of Secrets in the butt. Same is true for Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker, etc. Dark Confidant, Dreadnought, on the other hand are unaffected by Lingering Souls.

I don't like Spell Snare, because Dreadnought basically trumps all of those 2cc spells.

I like Trickbind more than Torpor Orb, because it's blue and as such can be pitched to FoW.