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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #2981
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Ok. Given any "Dreadstill" shell follow this pattern:

    4 Wasteland
    14-15 lands

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Force of Will
    3-4 Ponder
    3-4 Daze
    2-3-4 Snare/Pierce
    3-4-5 in-color removal


    4 Delver
    3-4 Dreadnought
    3-4 in-color utility/beef



    Why to run red (or white) over black? The hand information given by discard is exactly where you want to be when about to resolve or to rely on a fragile 2-cards combo. You also get Stalker which is an alternate beef; Grim Lavamancer, although being good in a format filled with little creatures, isn't really a tempo card.
    Black also provides all the tools to slay Maverick post-board, as well as a fantastic removal (Darkblast).
    Really, I tested the red version and found myself too many times scared of removal blowout while holding Stiflenought; as well as having Lavamancer in certain matchups where it's useless (combo, Nic Fit, Threshold). Hand information is so crucial for this archetype. Gitaxian Probe is half a step in this direction, but it just peeks and doesn't do anything.
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  2. #2982
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    The Red gives you a bit more versatility and reach, and a few more answers postboard. However, the black/blue only version gives you a bunch more stability and consistency.

    -Matt

  3. #2983

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Buddha View Post
    //18
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea

    //8
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    //12
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Mother of Runes

    //22
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Stifle
    2 Trickbind


    Lingering Soul kicks Delver of Secrets in the butt. Same is true for Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker, etc. Dark Confidant, Dreadnought, on the other hand are unaffected by Lingering Souls.

    I don't like Spell Snare, because Dreadnought basically trumps all of those 2cc spells.

    I like Trickbind more than Torpor Orb, because it's blue and as such can be pitched to FoW.
    How has your white splash been doing? Seems awkward to splash a whole color just to add mom?

    Maybe just run more counters?

    FOw, daze, spell pierce, and fluster storm. Keeps your base UB. with maybe a red splash out the board?

  4. #2984
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I could easily see myself running a Volc or two out of the board just to run Mogg Salvage and Fire/Ice. In all honesty, Fire Ice is one of the best cards to be in red for. You ruin other Delver decks, can take out multiple Hierarchs/Moms, etc. I'm sad I'm not in red, but the black has been great.

    -Matt

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Red gives you Lightning Bolt, Fire/Ice, Grim Lavamancer and Red blasts. I personally find reach really good when playing dreadnoughts, as you mostly need to keep dreadnought alive for one attack only.

    I prefer URB without black removal. Black is for Dark Confidant and sideboard cards.
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  6. #2986
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    This deck is super well positioned now. How's everyone doing with it?

    Having watched the Top 8 of the Mana Infinito tournament, it's all Combo and Canadian Thresh = good matchups! We're also decent against Esper, so let's get on with that :)

    I think if I was going to run URb, I'd run:

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Delver of Secrets
    2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
    4 Dark Confidant

    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    2 Torpor Orb
    4 Stifle
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Fire/Ice


    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Island
    1 Mountain
    1 Badlands
    3 Undergorund Sea
    3 Volcanic Island

    --BOARD--
    2 Virtue's Ruin
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Torpor Orb
    2 Dread of Night
    2 Mogg Salvage
    2 Pyroblast
    +4 Slots

    Or straight UB:

    4 Wasteland
    4 Underground Sea
    1 Drowned Catacomb
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    1 Marsh Flats
    3 Island
    1 Swamp

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Dark Confidant
    2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
    3 Delver of Secrets

    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    2 Torpor Orb
    4 Stifle
    1 Deathmark
    2 Ghastly Demise
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    1 Thoughtseize

    --BOARD--
    2 Virtue's Ruin
    2 Dread of Night
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Torpor Orb
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Vendilion Clique
    +4 Slots

    My real question is this: Is Counterbalance worth it for the Stoneblade matchup? My experience with it has been I set up Countertop, but then by that time, they've already done other crap like drop Jace/Batterskull. Also hurts that they bring in 3 Path and 2 Disenchant...

    My point is, would more discard or something else be better, considering running the long game isn't the greatest for us and Stoneblade does, and Countertop isn't really for any other matchup besides Storm (which we already are good at).

    -Matt

  7. #2987

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Seems a nice and Solid list Matt, I'm attending a tournament tomorrow and I want to play this deck (I might even copy your list). But unfortunately I don't have Kyra, and Torpor Orb which I can use. Neither do I have Trickbind. Do you have any replacements for those cards or should I just keep it with Canadian Thresh or Bug Control for tomorrow?

    Cheers,

    Vuuyi

  8. #2988
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Both Kira and torpor Orb are really good. I can understand if you don't have Kira, but Torpor Orb are $1. I'm sure someone will have some. I wouldn't play Dreadnought without it right now.

    If you really can't get a hold of either, if in Red, run Grim Lavamancer. Or, if in the UB version, run more hand disruption or counterspells (or, Vision Charm is good to use on Dreadnought, also can be used to phase out Equipment).

    Good luck!

    -Matt

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Hey i'm new to this deck, but have a decent amount of the cards, so i want to try it out.
    I have a question regarding sdematts lists (which i like). Why do you play just 3 delver? I never saw lists with just three of them. They seem like nuts in this deck.

    regards
    preddi

  10. #2990
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    a) I ran out of slots,
    b) Lingering Souls means any Delver you might have out is now worthless,l and any you draw in the future mean nothing.

    -Matt

  11. #2991
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    What would be the best approach against B/R Delver?
    I thought - 2 Counterbalance - 2 Reanimates from the board for 4 Gastly Demise.
    The Gastly Demise would be comming in for Snuff Out. But is this really the best approach? What do you guys think?

    The list I have is the Russian Nationals list.

  12. #2992
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Ok Ok, just got back from SCG Providence. Ended up finishing 6-2-1 for an overall placement of 27 out of 256?

    This was the list I sleeved up

    // Lands
    3 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    2 [JGC] Polluted Delta
    5 [IN] Island (3)
    2 [B] Volcanic Island
    4 [DDF] Mishra's Factory

    // Creatures
    4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
    4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 [M12] Grim Lavamancer

    // Spells
    4 [JGC] Stifle
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [OD] Standstill
    4 [CST] Brainstorm
    4 [NE] Daze
    2 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
    3 [DIS] Spell Snare
    2 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
    1 [TSP] Trickbind

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [NPH] Dismember
    SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 [U] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 3 [4E] Lightning Bolt
    SB: 1 [RAV] Mountain (1)

    Matchups
    0-2 Ichorid
    2-0 RUG
    2-0 BUG
    1-1-1 Maverick
    1-2 MUC (Lost on very last turn of time to savage topdecks)
    2-0 TES
    2-0 Maverick w/Dark Depths
    2-0 GWB Rock
    2-0 Esper Stoneblade

    So overall I was very satisfied with how the deck preformed. Not sure about what I would change at the moment but I'd be interested to see if anyone gets any Testing with Temporal Mastery.

    MVP = Standstill for sure.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  13. #2993

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Roodmistah View Post
    Ok Ok, just got back from SCG Providence. Ended up finishing 6-2-1 for an overall placement of 27 out of 256?

    This was the list I sleeved up

    // Lands
    3 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    2 [JGC] Polluted Delta
    5 [IN] Island (3)
    2 [B] Volcanic Island
    4 [DDF] Mishra's Factory

    // Creatures
    4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
    4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 [M12] Grim Lavamancer

    // Spells
    4 [JGC] Stifle
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [OD] Standstill
    4 [CST] Brainstorm
    4 [NE] Daze
    2 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
    3 [DIS] Spell Snare
    2 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
    1 [TSP] Trickbind

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [NPH] Dismember
    SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 [U] Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 3 [4E] Lightning Bolt
    SB: 1 [RAV] Mountain (1)

    Matchups
    0-2 Ichorid
    2-0 RUG
    2-0 BUG
    1-1-1 Maverick
    1-2 MUC (Lost on very last turn of time to savage topdecks)
    2-0 TES
    2-0 Maverick w/Dark Depths
    2-0 GWB Rock
    2-0 Esper Stoneblade

    So overall I was very satisfied with how the deck preformed. Not sure about what I would change at the moment but I'd be interested to see if anyone gets any Testing with Temporal Mastery.

    MVP = Standstill for sure.
    Interesting list! I thought standstill was all but obsolete with flash and todays fast meta. I'm overall impressed with the list but would you care to motivate why you are not running CB?

    Also, without really having playtested the list, it feels like gitaxian probe is a filler slot. Couldn't probe be replaced with cb? or should probe + sensei¨s be replaced with something else all together?

    just some spontenous thoughts

  14. #2994
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Awesome to see Dreadnoughts in the top 30 :) congrates on your wins.

    I find myself wondering,Why Trickbind and not Torper Orb?
    What made you want to play Standstill?

  15. #2995
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Standstill was obsolete for a while because of all the vial decks that were running rampant such as

    D&T, Gobz, Merfolk.

    Now that the meta is the likes of Maverick, Esperblade, RUG and such it's better to play now than it ever has been. I had one match against BGW Rock that I drew 9 cards off of Standstills the first game and just won on the back of pure card advantage alone. Not to mention we have Delver and Lavamancers now, which makes Standstill absolutely insane.

    Believe it or not Gitaxian worked out perfectly just as I had hoped it would. Top also filled the role of filtering through the find the answers we need which is what it's always been for us. T0 Gitaxian Delver go is so stupid strong of a play I just couldn't see replacing them for anything in the deck right now. Counterbalance I do miss from time to time...I wanted to incorporate them into my SB but I just couldn't find any space.

    To address the Torpor Orb thing, I like the flexibility that the trickbind gives is all really. I like having that extra stifle effect to save you from the likes of Deed, EE, Jace, etc. Orb is cool because it shuts down Stoneforge but I mean we should already be crushing that matchup anyways.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  16. #2996
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I have always had a soft spot for Dreadnought decks, and I also recently tried to revamp Dreadstill.
    Roodmistah, your list meddles me, mainly because of Gitaxian Probe, but it seems to be both invincibile on the play and absolutely lackluster on the draw. The absence of spot removal translates into the impossibility of dropping Standstill on your second turn in the latter case if the opponent basically starts with a t1 critter like Mother of Runes or Delver of Secrets, and you lack Lavamancer or it gets neutered.
    Also, if you lack Snare, a very commonly t2 threat like Stoneforge Mystic will force you to waste Daze/Force, setting yourself back in tempo/cards, or to begin chasing the opponent. To me- but I could be wrong, this is just a superficial analysis without test proof- you need to fit some spot removal maindeck.
    Format's too much shaped by low-cost creatures with a high power level that can stand alone. Countering all of them or thinking to always manage to estabilish a favourite board position is just deceiving.

    How do you handle the lack of removal maindeck? Give me typical examples, referred to your last tournament, if you're willing to.

    I love Standstill, and will probably begin to test them out back. I think this deck may end up in the new metagame to be a very good contender (how ironic is that each old deck is given a shot to rise again, lately), as it skullfucks Threshold, and it will race the newly-powered Burn, has a shot in winning against Dredge and Storm.
    UW will still remain a problem, though; I think we should give up a slight bit of the tempo-esque extremization (4th daze, 4th standstill perhaps), and try to fit a couple of Jaces (other than the removals). Otherwise, it will remain a fast and furious deck with consistency issues in mid-late game and choked of cards that do little or nothing in certain contexts.
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  17. #2997
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Piceli89
    ;How do you handle the lack of removal maindeck? Give me typical examples, referred to your last tournament, if you're willing to.
    T1 Mother of Runes does absolutely nothing to Standstill due to the fact it stilll can't stop Factory from bashing in there. I will admit that T1 Delver on the play can be annoying but I mean we run 4 Delvers to either trade and 4 Lavamancers to establish control over them. In matchups with Stoneforge Mystic you basically morph your deck into a serious removal deck after the first game. Postboard you have

    4 Force
    3 Snare
    2-3 Daze
    3 Bolt
    3 Dismember
    4 Lavamancer

    So I mean you have alot of ways to deal with SFM preboard you stilll have 5 Stifle effects 3 snare 4 Force, 4 daze, and 4 Lavamancers to handle them. Especially against Maverick in specific, it's just too much removal for them to handle. The main reason to be playing this deck right now is it absolutely crushes RUG Thresh as well as Stoneblade. Maverick is pretty positive for us too at least from my testing. I'll draw up a new matchup analysis chart when I have more free time available.

    Gitaxian looks weird at first glance but test it. It's crazy strong in this deck I know I was surprised too but it fills exactly the role we need. Valuable information on whether Dreadnought is safe or not more or less not to mention what kind of T1 play the oponent has and whether we should be playing T1 Delver or Stifling T1 fetchland. I'm actually trying to figure out a way to incorporate more of them into the list, but it's so tight as is I can't see any way to do so.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  18. #2998

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I am pretty sure Roodmistah is on air with his list at SCG right now.
    Edit: Too bad - Crypt 1 card too deep. I would have loved to see him playing against Darwin Kastle

  19. #2999
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by oRen View Post
    I am pretty sure Roodmistah is on air with his list at SCG right now.
    Edit: Too bad - Crypt 1 card too deep. I would have loved to see him playing against Darwin Kastle
    Almost got there bro.
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Roodmistah View Post
    Almost got there bro.
    Gongratulations. Your list looks really solid. I have ended up to an almost identical main deck (spell-wise) myself, but I still tried to fit in Dark Confidants, as well. It's feeling a bit awkward and I eventually believe I should just cut them.

    How was your maverick matchup? Did you play against it?
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