I think I typed that wrong. I meant this as in, "i'm playing combo, therefore I might want a redirect effect," not "i'm playing against combo, therefore I might want a redirect effect."Originally Posted by Vandalize
Agreed - they are terrible vs. combo. In combo, however, they can be pretty great defensive measures against discard.
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Question. Why spell pierce over snare? Ive seen lists with pierce and some with snare. Snare seems really good right now. Why play pierce?
Well, I prefer Spell Pierce because it protects an early Dreadnought better (and is awesome against Liliana too). Spell Snare counters Stoneforge Mystic/Hymn to Tourach/Counterbalance, and that's pretty much it. I don't care much about Tarmogoyfs and Dark Confidants.
That's me, tho. I always feel like Dreadnought is going to die before swinging, and Spell Pierce makes me feel more confortable.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
I think your assessment of the cards is correct. Pierce is just much more versatile. Snare is only good against midrange decks and even yet its still much more important to make sure Dreadnought gets to swing and also stop combo/planeswalkers from going off.
Really happy to see all of the adaptions to the lists to combat all these rediculous Jund decks and whatnot. Divert should be in most everyone, if not everyone's SBs at least as a 2-of. I think I would still run Snare right now over Pierce to deal with the amount of Dark Confidants.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
Im thinking of doing a 2-1 split, or maybe go to 3 Daze and a 2-2 split of pierce and Daze. My current meta is full of Junk and Tribal so Pierce is very meh against them...
Stiflenought on Cam! Winning!!!!
Edit: On SCG Live.
Seems like the UB Russian Tempo version right?
Edit: Yep it is. Seems like he's playing a fairly stock list with Disfigure to fight Deathrites. He just missed a Delver flip btw.
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Was he actually missing the trigger? I did see that he never got to flip his delvers at all. And I heard something about him missing a trigger of some kind. Still. Tombstaker version seems good right now. Wonder if his list played misdirection at all?
Sorry, but do you have a link?! I cant find it! THX!
When he had 2 Delvers on the table, he checks the top card, then fetches, then doesn't check the fresh new topdeck for the other Delver. And on cam you can clearly see it was a Stifle.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
Thats a bit rough. Luckily RUG delver cant beat a 5/5 flier lol. He did make a few mis plays that I saw, but its gotta be nerve wracking to be on cam. Im a fan of the UR version just because I like the color combo, but the UB one does seem well positioned right now. I didnt see him playing Standstill.
Yeah for sure playing on cam after 7 turns of swiss is hard.
I love the overall appearance and playstyle of the UR version but UB seems just better as it proposes better threats and disruption. Ub doesn't run any Standstill or any other form of card advantage (unless you cut Stalkers for Bob, which I would not do right now as you loose an excellent win con), but plays 4 Bs and 3-4 Ponders for card quality and 1-2 Torpor Orb to increase virtual CA vs. Stoneblade decks and Goblins, and lets you play any number of Dreadnoughts without Stifle available.
Personally I'm a huge fan of Dreadnought itself and any deck that plays it. :)
I used to run a URg Singleton Dreadnought tempo deck a couple of years ago when Misstep was legal and that was probably my favourite Dreadnought list ever (here )
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
<3 Trinket Mage Package. Seems bad in a format where every deck has a free counter for 1 drops lol
Hello, a have browsed these forums for a long time without ever posting, but thought that this discussion was a good place to start. I was the one with the UB Stiflenought list in SCG Cinn and I have to say it played awesome all day (especially disfigure). I haven't had a chance to see commentary yet so I don't know if they reported any other "misplays" besides not checking for the second delver trigger, but yeah I was nervous and that sucked.
If anyone would like a full report or anything like that I would be happy to give it. Also, if anyone has any suggestions for the deck or anything like that, that would be cool to.
EDIT: Also, if you want to see my deck list, it is labelled as BUG Delver on SCG.
Last edited by Seiklos; 02-18-2013 at 01:17 PM.
Great job and misplays happen all the time, don't sweat it. The cool thing about the commentary and rewatching things is you can get a more broad sense of what was the right play and how to approach things.
I'm a big fan of the UB version since it has a better combo matchup by attacking both angles with proactive and reactive disruption.
I'd say Smother and Disfigure are the best removal spells for the black shell.
What did you like most about the deck and what would you change? It seemed you had a hard time flipping a delver so maybe more instants/sorceries for just bad luck?
Imagine there are no hypothetical situations.
Well I had 28 instants and sorceries and so I do believe that the scene on camera was bad luck (and the one failed trigger). I don't know if you could see what I was seeing each time it failed, but it was usually another creature which I wanted because I needed chump blockers. Also, I have a history of delvers not flipping on camera as I got beat out of top 8 in the standard portion of SCG Madison last year when 3 delvers just refused to flip in a timely fashion.
What I like most about the deck in generally is that it attacks from a whole number a different angles and simply eats other blue decks. Decks like Show and Tell are a joke for the most part because you have a lot of disruption and usually an insane clock in the form of a turn 2 dreadnought. What was seen on camera was the third RUG I defeated in a row, pretty much always due to tombstalker. It is true that the deck is soft to abrupt decay decks and my first loss of the day was to Jund. The disfigures really help in creature matchups, which are usually pretty tough for the UB version. I beat Death and Taxes early on and my only other loss besides jund that day was to the Maverick that got into the top 8.
May favorite part of the UB version is that every starting hand is like a puzzle you have to solve. Sometimes you are on the straight dreadnought plan, sometimes Delver and mana denial, and sometimes grind until tombstalker. The best part is that because of the different possible plans and the roguish nature of the deck, your opponent frequently has a hard time keeping the appropriate hand for what you are going to be doing. Like I said earlier, stuff like Jund is pretty miserable, but for metas full of RUG and combo, like it is here in the Midwest, its a pretty fun deck to register.
I will try to work on a report for the whole tourney so as to illustrate what went right and what went wrong.
I would love to see a tourney report. Watching Tombstalker wreck face was sweet. Disappointed in not quite making top 8 though :/ One question, why the split on Inquisition and Thoughtseize?
Watching Tombstalker dominate is awesome indeed. Reasons for the split: There is a long version involving the origins of my choice to play the deck and its original conception (which was, believe it or not, before the Russian Champs), however, the shorter version is that a number of the games can be rather grindy and after a lot of experimentation I found the life loss to be pretty relevant. I would say that if one was on a more all-in dreadnought plan, more thoughtsiezes would be used because of the ability to take force of will. For my personal play style I prefer a higher inquisition count simply because I tend to rely on Daze for taking care of >3cmc spells. I also rely on my creatures doing a lot of work and so most of what I aim to take with discard is actually removal or aggressive creatures like tarmogoyf. In my experience early aggression is the most threatening thing your opponent can be doing and because of the limited amount of quality removal I think that preserving your life total can really matter, mostly because there is no way to get it back.
What are your thoughts on the discard suite? Do you think 3 Thoughtsieze and 1 Inq is better? 2 and 2? I am definitely interested in discussing it because I have found myself pleased and disappointed with all sorts of configurations.
I think no matter what configuration you use, the results largely depend on the matchup a you face. Against aggro decks Thoughtseize would appear mediocre while inquisition would seem a lot better and vice versa.
As for Jund, Abrupt Decay is a problem since its uncounterable but, the best solution to that are misdirection effects. Since the deck is full of card advantage, (Hymn, Confidant, Bloodbrain Elf, Punishing Fire etc) Divert is usually always a 2 for 1. While Misdirection is free, it costs 2 cards and Jund wants to be a grindy deck. Being able to Divert an Abrupt Decay to a Deathrite, Confidant or using Divert on Hymn is usually game.
Imagine there are no hypothetical situations.
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