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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #41
    Rob Rogers
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    Here's what I never understood about your build of this deck, which is a very solid idea by the way.

    But you run 8 ways to get Dreadnought (4 Mages and 4 Dreadnought).

    And yet you only run 5 cards that combo with it (4 Stifle, 1 Trickbind).

    Why this doesn't make sense to me is, Dreadnought by itself in your hand is a completely dead card.

    Where as Stifle and Trickbind are never ever dead. When you can't use them to get a Dreadnought into play, they kill fetchlands, they counter storm, they neuter Seal of Primordium, and at the very worst case scenario, you can pitch them to FoW as your blue card.

    So to me, it makes a lot more sense to run 4 Stifle and 4 Trickbind with 4 Trinket Mage and 4 Dreadnought.

    But if not that, i would cut Dreadnoughts from the above (as they are dead cards by themselves) before I would start cutting Trickbinds and Stifles, which are never dead.

    I have also found myself very underwhelmed by the Countertop engine (tested it in MUC), so I'm instead going to try a build like this...

    Lands
    12 Island
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Mutavault
    2 Wasteland

    Creatures
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Trinket Mage

    Spells
    4 Ponder
    4 Standstill
    4 Force of Will
    4 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle
    4 Trickbind
    2 Brainstorm
    2 Daze
    2 Mana Leak
    2 Misdirection
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Pithing Needle

    The one other major concern I have about your list is that you only run 12 blue lands. Yet, typically, if you want to make sure you draw a source of a certain color in your opening hand, you need to run atleast 14 cards that produce that color mana.

    Otherwise, what do you think about this build?
    Not to be mean or anything but this list is quite bad. Mana Leak? Misdirection? Bad calls, Brainstorm is needed as a 4 of and Fetches are also needed. CBTop is amazing in this deck use it.

    You Probably don't need 4 Trickbinds, 2 or 3 maybe but not 4. Trinket Mage almost always goes for EE or Top it only goes for Nought if you have the Stifle effect in hand.
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  2. #42

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    If you rarely go for Dreadnought with Mage, and only occasionally are planning to have Stifle effects in hand, then why does the deck play 4 Dreadnought?

    Dreadnought does nothing for you unless you have a Stifle effect in hand, and Dreadnought in multiples is completely worthless even then.

    Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to cut Dreadnoughts (the piece of the combo that is completely worthless without the other half) before the deck cuts Trickbinds (the half of the combo that actually has a lot of functions even without the other half)?

    I looked through the whole thread and I still don't see a strong argument for why cutting back on the versatile Trickbind slots made more sense than cutting back on the singleminded, useless in multiples and often dead in hand Dreadnought slots.

    I guess I'm a little confused as to how to play the deck. I was under the impression that it wanted to combo out with Dreadnought as fast it can, while using blue control cards to disrupt your opponents plan and your protect your combo.

    That's why I felt Misdirection and Mana Leak are effective, since both cards are great at protecting the combo and disrupting your opponents removal, bounce and countermagic.

    If instead, this is closer to MUC with a combo win condition of sorts, then I can't understand how it could support 4 Daze since Daze is near useless by the midgame and I am wondering why it doesn't play more delay/controllish cards like Veldalken Shackles, Propaganda, Back to Basics and Powder Keg.

    I guess it's more of an intermediate between the two. In past experience, that never works out too well, to try to do a bit of both. But the deck is clearly posting good results and I am really looking forward to trying it out some more...

    I still feel that 4 Trickbind is worthwhile since the card is seriously never dead, and at worst, just pitches to FoW or can be shuffled away with Brainstorm.

    So how about this...

    6 Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Wasteland
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Tropical Island

    // Creatures
    3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Trinket Mage

    // Spells
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    4 Force of Will
    4 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle
    3 Trickbind
    3 Daze
    3 Counterbalance
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Engineered Explosives

    Or do you feel that 4 Trickbind is an absolute no no in this deck?

  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I would never cut Dreadnought down to a 3 of, personally. Although you may think only 5-6 ways to combo with his is rather low, the reason it's more then enough for us is because we run Standstill (insane drawing engine) and cheap ways to find it like Brainstorm/Top. I think any more then 6 will probally create you to draw way too many Stifle effects thus being dead in your hand. Dreadnought is run as a 4 of, simple because it enables a much higher possibility of T2 Dreadnought which will flat out win you games in alot of matchups. So basically all I'd change from your list is -1 Trickbind +1 Dreadnought. Other then that, solid list.
    UR Dreadstill and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
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    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  4. #44
    Rob Rogers
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    If you rarely go for Dreadnought with Mage, and only occasionally are planning to have Stifle effects in hand, then why does the deck play 4 Dreadnought?


    Dreadnought does nothing for you unless you have a Stifle effect in hand, and Dreadnought in multiples is completely worthless even then.
    Dreadnought has these cool untap tricks you can do(swing, ok take 12, play Dreadnought saccing my tapped one) it can be useful sometimes. Dreadnought will almost never be drawn as a dead card since we run Top and BS/Fetch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to cut Dreadnoughts (the piece of the combo that is completely worthless without the other half) before the deck cuts Trickbinds (the half of the combo that actually has a lot of functions even without the other half)?
    That's the thing, Trickbinds were never cut from the deck, we only added 1 for versatility(can't spell?) maybe running 2 is a good call.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    I still feel that 4 Trickbind is worthwhile since the card is seriously never dead, and at worst, just pitches to FoW or can be shuffled away with Brainstorm.
    Why Don't you fell the same way about Dreadnought(except the Force pitchability(word or no word? ))

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    So how about this...

    6 Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Wasteland
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Tropical Island

    // Creatures
    3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    4 Trinket Mage

    // Spells
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    4 Force of Will
    4 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle
    3 Trickbind
    3 Daze
    3 Counterbalance
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Engineered Explosives

    Or do you feel that 4 Trickbind is an absolute no no in this deck?
    This list seems pretty good, I will echo Roods' suggestion.
    Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jander78 View Post
    You still have to appreciate a well timed "fuck yall niggas" though.
    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    WotC should either stop printing such good blue creatures or start printing more Hammerfist Giants
    "Got any trade boogas?"

  5. #45

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by HammafistRoob View Post


    Why Don't you fell the same way about Dreadnought(except the Force pitchability(word or no word? ))
    It's not just that Trickbind fuels FoW.

    Trickbind without dreadnought is an uncounterable Sinkhole, and is useful versus Seals, Pernicious Deeds, Survival activations, Shackles activation to steal your nought before it deals lethal damage and lots of other random situations that seem to pop up in legacy.

    Dreadnought without Stifle does nothing.

  6. #46
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    It's not just that Trickbind fuels FoW.

    Trickbind without dreadnought is an uncounterable Sinkhole, and is useful versus Seals, Pernicious Deeds, Survival activations, Shackles activation to steal your nought before it deals lethal damage and lots of other random situations that seem to pop up in legacy.
    Trickbind is good but not an 4'er slot. Test the list with 2-3 of them, i dont think you've been playing the list above.


    @Clark Kant:
    All your posts are ... "agressive", try these try that, you havent play against this, would this be better ...

    Sit down and please play the deck, your posting in some topics around the board and i dont think that you play all of them and really test them.
    Last edited by Ch@os; 04-03-2008 at 01:06 PM.

  7. #47
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    Shackles activation to steal your nought before it deals lethal damage
    ...with 12 Islands on the board ? I'm wondering which deck could manage to do this - even long drawn-out games versus Landstill never see them with more than ten lands on the board
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  8. #48

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    A bad example, sure. But it's certainly possible.

    You haven't experienced long drawn out games until you've played against Mono Blue Control.

  9. #49
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Has anyone tried out Transmute Artifact over Trinket Mage? For the same three mana you can sacrifice a Seat of Synod to put nought into play, not your hand. Is the body for Warren's Weirding that important. He's just so slow.

    Transmuting those extra tops seems good and Mishra's Factory is already an artifact so you wouldnt even need to make many accommodation's.
    Now playing real formats.

  10. #50

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Kant View Post
    A bad example, sure. But it's certainly possible.

    You haven't experienced long drawn out games until you've played against Mono Blue Control.
    Mono Blue does not have more counters than you. Also, by forcing a standstill through, you do not have to go to the long game just beat w/ Factory. Like others have posted, you need to sit and test the deck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bane of the Living View Post
    Has anyone tried out Transmute Artifact over Trinket Mage? For the same three mana you can sacrifice a Seat of Synod to put nought into play, not your hand. Is the body for Warren's Weirding that important. He's just so slow.

    Transmuting those extra tops seems good and Mishra's Factory is already an artifact so you wouldnt even need to make many accommodation's.
    Interesting idea, but that will steal away from the consistency of the deck. IMO Dread is a mini combo thrown into the deck taking up 4 slots. It's not needed to win.

    The great thing about Trinket mage is he has dual purposes - He attacks and grabs you a needed artifact. I rarely ever get Naught with Mage. I usually use him to get a top for balance or a EE for kill.

  11. #51
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by nditiz1 View Post
    Mono Blue does not have more counters than you. Also, by forcing a standstill through, you do not have to go to the long game just beat w/ Factory. Like others have posted, you need to sit and test the deck.



    Interesting idea, but that will steal away from the consistency of the deck. IMO Dread is a mini combo thrown into the deck taking up 4 slots. It's not needed to win.

    The great thing about Trinket mage is he has dual purposes - He attacks and grabs you a needed artifact. I rarely ever get Naught with Mage. I usually use him to get a top for balance or a EE for kill.
    He just seems so slow and everyone seems to want the nought combo asap. I know thats how I like it. Standstill fits perfectly but I dont think the deck should get in the habit of Landstill's late game. Landstill tends to run massive board sweeping effects such as Wrath and Deed. Your searching for Explosives so often because you need the sweeper when going late game. Rather than take the late game why not just turbo out with some massive counter magic?

    Reading all the tournament reports and my own experience with Nought all point me in direction of balls to the walls speed. The advantage of the creature is how fast he can kill your opponent. Why wait till turn 7/8?

    EDIT

    Btw I find my own copies of Threads of Disloyalty are extremely effective as an answer to my opponents. That way you can just take their own Dreadnought if it's mirror or take a goyf or something.
    Now playing real formats.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    For the most part, you'll rarely experience yourself going into Landstill's late game with this deck. Normally if you draw a slow control hand and Standstill's you'll probally get drawn out until mid-game- overpower them with card advantage (Counterbalance, Standstill) Drop a Nought and win or just Trinket/Factory beat them to death. If you go strait up turbo speed you're weakening your ways to protect your Dreadnought thus your oponent's answers for him will most likely resolve. I've been testing the 2nd Trickbind over the 4th Spell Snare. It wasn't bad to say the least. I'm considering changing up my board a little bit, -1 Needle +1 EE for the simple reason that I normally never board in both so it's seemed kind of pointless to run more then 2.
    UR Dreadstill and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
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    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  13. #53
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Hey thought you might be interested, I allways use this site to keep up on current decks.

    http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy

    wow Rodney got 5 of the 6 wins! (not that it was unexpected)

  14. #54
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Maagler View Post
    Hey thought you might be interested, I allways use this site to keep up on current decks.

    http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy

    wow Rodney got 5 of the 6 wins! (not that it was unexpected)
    You must also remember not many people are currently playing this deck right now outside of my team. Also would just like to add the Goyf Sligh matchup continues to be amazing for this deck. I played against Goyf Sligh tonight at a local tourny down in RI but his 4x Krosan Grip board wasn't enough to hate me out. (I think the deck itself total is like 15-0 against Goyf Sligh in rounds.) Roob, are you interested in posting your white splash list? I think his build is fairly optimal for the most part for white splash and I will edit my intro post with this decklist. Went 3-0-2, beat Survival, Goyf Sligh, drew in with my two teammates. Beat Survival again in top 4 and split it with my teammate Roob.
    UR Dreadstill and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  15. #55
    Rob Rogers
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Roodmistah View Post
    You must also remember not many people are currently playing this deck right now outside of my team. Also would just like to add the Goyf Sligh matchup continues to be amazing for this deck. I played against Goyf Sligh tonight at a local tourny down in RI but his 4x Krosan Grip board wasn't enough to hate me out. (I think the deck itself total is like 15-0 against Goyf Sligh in rounds.) Roob, are you interested in posting your white splash list? I think his build is fairly optimal for the most part for white splash and I will edit my intro post with this decklist. Went 3-0-2, beat Survival, Goyf Sligh, drew in with my two teammates. Beat Survival again in top 4 and split it with my teammate Roob.
    My list for White Splash-
    Main-60
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Wasteland
    2 Tundra
    5 Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Polluted Delta

    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Trinket Mage

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle
    1 Trickbind
    3 Swords to Plowshares

    4 Standstill
    3 Counterbalance
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Pithing Needle

    Side-15
    4 Meddling Mage
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Chill
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Threads of Disloyalty
    1 Engineered Explosives


    Swiss
    Beat Dragon Stompy 2-1
    Lost to Storm 1-2 (mull to 4 Game1, no blue mana Game 3)
    Beat FishDOTdec 2-0
    Tie Dreadstill

    Top4
    Beat Storm 2-1
    Tie Dreadstill

    All in all, very solid list although I'm not sold on Threads in this list. Mainly because against Thresh(where you want threads) I already have to side in Mages and there isn't anything else I can side out to fit them in. Basically the match that I want it in I can't fit it in.

    Also wanting to add in another Polluted Delta over some nonland card, but idk what to cut.
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    You still have to appreciate a well timed "fuck yall niggas" though.
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    WotC should either stop printing such good blue creatures or start printing more Hammerfist Giants
    "Got any trade boogas?"

  16. #56
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Oo, my MB is the same \o/, but i play no Wasteland, instead 1x Academy Ruins, 1x Polluted Delta, 1x Tundra. And in the SB no Chill, instead 3x BEB.

    Sword is extremly good in this build, last week i played against burn/sligh an i sworded my own nought, because i had no CB in play and cant find a Stifle Effect, so +12 life :).
    Also to clear the board before play a standstill, and so on ... nice splash color for Dreadstill.

  17. #57
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I just played rob with the white splash list on Friday. Dreadstill spanks dragon stompy around like a bad little monkey. I also played it with ichorid, although i won 2/3 i think it was because of a play mistake.

    I am just waiting to see this deck catch on. Its explosive power in the combo is great for the quick win, or the long game finisher. I was thinking though, would the addition of goyfs help the deck? I would not stretch it to three colors. I might go U/g for it.

  18. #58
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Goyf is great, but a sideboard card at best. The list itself is incredible tight and I would not cut any control element cards (Spell Snares, etc) for him. And the Mages are just a beating bud.
    UR Dreadstill and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  19. #59
    Rob Rogers
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Ch@os View Post
    Oo, my MB is the same \o/, but i play no Wasteland, instead 1x Academy Ruins, 1x Polluted Delta, 1x Tundra. And in the SB no Chill, instead 3x BEB.

    Sword is extremly good in this build, last week i played against burn/sligh an i sworded my own nought, because i had no CB in play and cant find a Stifle Effect, so +12 life :).
    Also to clear the board before play a standstill, and so on ... nice splash color for Dreadstill.

    Your first white list wasn't that good, it ran Vision Charm and such. I really like the deck with Wastelands in it, I think my build is going to cut the one of Needle for another fetch/Island.

    Also, we should get optimal builds for each splash on the first post, currently we have Uw and Ug. I think Black would also be a really good build with the addition of Confidant.
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    You still have to appreciate a well timed "fuck yall niggas" though.
    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    WotC should either stop printing such good blue creatures or start printing more Hammerfist Giants
    "Got any trade boogas?"

  20. #60
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Yes my first lists were sort of experimental ;>, but now it seems an optimal white build has been found. These few different cards like play Wasteland or play not are not such a big deal and depends on the playstyle.

    I've tried the black splash with Confidant, but its a very different playstyle with no real removal MB. And a UWB build is really strange because its not enough space for Sword & Confidant.

    Some Ideas for an black splash? Just replace the three swords and the needle with 4x Confidant. Or add some extra Thoughtseize/Duress?

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