Not to be mean or anything but this list is quite bad. Mana Leak? Misdirection? Bad calls, Brainstorm is needed as a 4 of and Fetches are also needed. CBTop is amazing in this deck use it.
You Probably don't need 4 Trickbinds, 2 or 3 maybe but not 4. Trinket Mage almost always goes for EE or Top it only goes for Nought if you have the Stifle effect in hand.
If you rarely go for Dreadnought with Mage, and only occasionally are planning to have Stifle effects in hand, then why does the deck play 4 Dreadnought?
Dreadnought does nothing for you unless you have a Stifle effect in hand, and Dreadnought in multiples is completely worthless even then.
Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to cut Dreadnoughts (the piece of the combo that is completely worthless without the other half) before the deck cuts Trickbinds (the half of the combo that actually has a lot of functions even without the other half)?
I looked through the whole thread and I still don't see a strong argument for why cutting back on the versatile Trickbind slots made more sense than cutting back on the singleminded, useless in multiples and often dead in hand Dreadnought slots.
I guess I'm a little confused as to how to play the deck. I was under the impression that it wanted to combo out with Dreadnought as fast it can, while using blue control cards to disrupt your opponents plan and your protect your combo.
That's why I felt Misdirection and Mana Leak are effective, since both cards are great at protecting the combo and disrupting your opponents removal, bounce and countermagic.
If instead, this is closer to MUC with a combo win condition of sorts, then I can't understand how it could support 4 Daze since Daze is near useless by the midgame and I am wondering why it doesn't play more delay/controllish cards like Veldalken Shackles, Propaganda, Back to Basics and Powder Keg.
I guess it's more of an intermediate between the two. In past experience, that never works out too well, to try to do a bit of both. But the deck is clearly posting good results and I am really looking forward to trying it out some more...
I still feel that 4 Trickbind is worthwhile since the card is seriously never dead, and at worst, just pitches to FoW or can be shuffled away with Brainstorm.
So how about this...
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Tropical Island
// Creatures
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
3 Trickbind
3 Daze
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
Or do you feel that 4 Trickbind is an absolute no no in this deck?
I would never cut Dreadnought down to a 3 of, personally. Although you may think only 5-6 ways to combo with his is rather low, the reason it's more then enough for us is because we run Standstill (insane drawing engine) and cheap ways to find it like Brainstorm/Top. I think any more then 6 will probally create you to draw way too many Stifle effects thus being dead in your hand. Dreadnought is run as a 4 of, simple because it enables a much higher possibility of T2 Dreadnought which will flat out win you games in alot of matchups. So basically all I'd change from your list is -1 Trickbind +1 Dreadnought. Other then that, solid list.
Dreadnought has these cool untap tricks you can do(swing, ok take 12, play Dreadnought saccing my tapped one) it can be useful sometimes. Dreadnought will almost never be drawn as a dead card since we run Top and BS/Fetch.
That's the thing, Trickbinds were never cut from the deck, we only added 1 for versatility(can't spell?) maybe running 2 is a good call.
Why Don't you fell the same way about Dreadnought(except the Force pitchability(word or no word? ))
This list seems pretty good, I will echo Roods' suggestion.
It's not just that Trickbind fuels FoW.
Trickbind without dreadnought is an uncounterable Sinkhole, and is useful versus Seals, Pernicious Deeds, Survival activations, Shackles activation to steal your nought before it deals lethal damage and lots of other random situations that seem to pop up in legacy.
Dreadnought without Stifle does nothing.
Trickbind is good but not an 4'er slot. Test the list with 2-3 of them, i dont think you've been playing the list above.
@Clark Kant:
All your posts are ... "agressive", try these try that, you havent play against this, would this be better ...
Sit down and please play the deck, your posting in some topics around the board and i dont think that you play all of them and really test them.
Last edited by Ch@os; 04-03-2008 at 01:06 PM.
A bad example, sure. But it's certainly possible.
You haven't experienced long drawn out games until you've played against Mono Blue Control.
Has anyone tried out Transmute Artifact over Trinket Mage? For the same three mana you can sacrifice a Seat of Synod to put nought into play, not your hand. Is the body for Warren's Weirding that important. He's just so slow.
Transmuting those extra tops seems good and Mishra's Factory is already an artifact so you wouldnt even need to make many accommodation's.
Now playing real formats.
Mono Blue does not have more counters than you. Also, by forcing a standstill through, you do not have to go to the long game just beat w/ Factory. Like others have posted, you need to sit and test the deck.
Interesting idea, but that will steal away from the consistency of the deck. IMO Dread is a mini combo thrown into the deck taking up 4 slots. It's not needed to win.
The great thing about Trinket mage is he has dual purposes - He attacks and grabs you a needed artifact. I rarely ever get Naught with Mage. I usually use him to get a top for balance or a EE for kill.
He just seems so slow and everyone seems to want the nought combo asap. I know thats how I like it. Standstill fits perfectly but I dont think the deck should get in the habit of Landstill's late game. Landstill tends to run massive board sweeping effects such as Wrath and Deed. Your searching for Explosives so often because you need the sweeper when going late game. Rather than take the late game why not just turbo out with some massive counter magic?
Reading all the tournament reports and my own experience with Nought all point me in direction of balls to the walls speed. The advantage of the creature is how fast he can kill your opponent. Why wait till turn 7/8?
EDIT
Btw I find my own copies of Threads of Disloyalty are extremely effective as an answer to my opponents. That way you can just take their own Dreadnought if it's mirror or take a goyf or something.
Now playing real formats.
For the most part, you'll rarely experience yourself going into Landstill's late game with this deck. Normally if you draw a slow control hand and Standstill's you'll probally get drawn out until mid-game- overpower them with card advantage (Counterbalance, Standstill) Drop a Nought and win or just Trinket/Factory beat them to death. If you go strait up turbo speed you're weakening your ways to protect your Dreadnought thus your oponent's answers for him will most likely resolve. I've been testing the 2nd Trickbind over the 4th Spell Snare. It wasn't bad to say the least. I'm considering changing up my board a little bit, -1 Needle +1 EE for the simple reason that I normally never board in both so it's seemed kind of pointless to run more then 2.
Hey thought you might be interested, I allways use this site to keep up on current decks.
http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy
wow Rodney got 5 of the 6 wins! (not that it was unexpected)
You must also remember not many people are currently playing this deck right now outside of my team. Also would just like to add the Goyf Sligh matchup continues to be amazing for this deck. I played against Goyf Sligh tonight at a local tourny down in RI but his 4x Krosan Grip board wasn't enough to hate me out. (I think the deck itself total is like 15-0 against Goyf Sligh in rounds.) Roob, are you interested in posting your white splash list? I think his build is fairly optimal for the most part for white splash and I will edit my intro post with this decklist. Went 3-0-2, beat Survival, Goyf Sligh, drew in with my two teammates. Beat Survival again in top 4 and split it with my teammate Roob.
My list for White Splash-
Main-60
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Tundra
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
Side-15
4 Meddling Mage
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chill
2 Echoing Truth
2 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Engineered Explosives
Swiss
Beat Dragon Stompy 2-1
Lost to Storm 1-2 (mull to 4 Game1, no blue mana Game 3)
Beat FishDOTdec 2-0
Tie Dreadstill
Top4
Beat Storm 2-1
Tie Dreadstill
All in all, very solid list although I'm not sold on Threads in this list. Mainly because against Thresh(where you want threads) I already have to side in Mages and there isn't anything else I can side out to fit them in. Basically the match that I want it in I can't fit it in.
Also wanting to add in another Polluted Delta over some nonland card, but idk what to cut.
Oo, my MB is the same \o/, but i play no Wasteland, instead 1x Academy Ruins, 1x Polluted Delta, 1x Tundra. And in the SB no Chill, instead 3x BEB.
Sword is extremly good in this build, last week i played against burn/sligh an i sworded my own nought, because i had no CB in play and cant find a Stifle Effect, so +12 life :).
Also to clear the board before play a standstill, and so on ... nice splash color for Dreadstill.
I just played rob with the white splash list on Friday. Dreadstill spanks dragon stompy around like a bad little monkey. I also played it with ichorid, although i won 2/3 i think it was because of a play mistake.
I am just waiting to see this deck catch on. Its explosive power in the combo is great for the quick win, or the long game finisher. I was thinking though, would the addition of goyfs help the deck? I would not stretch it to three colors. I might go U/g for it.
Goyf is great, but a sideboard card at best. The list itself is incredible tight and I would not cut any control element cards (Spell Snares, etc) for him. And the Mages are just a beating bud.
Your first white list wasn't that good, it ran Vision Charm and such. I really like the deck with Wastelands in it, I think my build is going to cut the one of Needle for another fetch/Island.
Also, we should get optimal builds for each splash on the first post, currently we have Uw and Ug. I think Black would also be a really good build with the addition of Confidant.
Yes my first lists were sort of experimental ;>, but now it seems an optimal white build has been found. These few different cards like play Wasteland or play not are not such a big deal and depends on the playstyle.
I've tried the black splash with Confidant, but its a very different playstyle with no real removal MB. And a UWB build is really strange because its not enough space for Sword & Confidant.
Some Ideas for an black splash? Just replace the three swords and the needle with 4x Confidant. Or add some extra Thoughtseize/Duress?
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