[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[johanessen]

I top8'd this weekend with dreadstill 96 players.

List:

3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
3 wasteland
3 mishra's factory
4 island
3 tropical island
2 volcanic island

4 tarmogoyf
3 phyrexian dreadnought
2 trinket mage

4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 daze
4 stifle
1 trickbind
3 counterbalance
3 sensei's divining top
3 standstill
2 engineered explosives
2 fire/ice

side
3 spell pierce
3 firespout
2 tormod's crypt
1 relic of progenitus
2 pithing needle
2 pyroblast
1 krosan grip
1 trygon predator

I can't remember the games but:
1- win 2-1 ugw counter-top
first game i destroy his mana base and win through dreadnought.
long second game i drop cb and fow trygon, but he eventually steals my dreadnought w/ sower and win
third game I get a fast dreadnought followed by standstill.
2- lose 0-2 gw zoo
he gets mother of runes and some weenie, i play trinket mage for ee and he drops gaddock teeg (gaddock maindeck-> hate random players)
he k-grip my dreadnought and win after that with mother of runes, weenie and jitte
3- win 2-1 mirror
drop goyf and win after some counterwars
loose to two goyfs on his side
win via fast dreadnought followed by standstill
4- win 2-1 white stacks
he drops c@1, trinis and baneslayer that I can't race with tarmagoyf i concede fast
i drop an early tarmagoyf , i let him play irrelevant stuff while countering bombs (spell pierce mvp)
he gets mana screwed after wasteing his city and loose again to goyf.
5- win 2-1 ledless dredge
t2 dreadnought and wasteland ends game faster
second game he dredges and win on turn three while i find no hate.
i start with relic and fow his first careful study. drop two goyfs and win
6- win 2-0 merfolk
long game he gets mana screwed after destroying his vial with ee. tarmogoyf goes the distance
i eventually firespout for 2 lords cursecatcher and silvergil and then pithing naming muta. later dreadnought finished the game.
7- ID
5-1-1 4th in standings
Top8- lose 0-2 grw survival
i start island, he tries to drop vial, i daze. i play island go. he plays survival i daze again. next two turns he drops another survival and another vial and wins.
second game i play dreadnought he k-grip, play another dreadnought k-grip again. i loose couple of turns later and he shows 3rd k-grip. nice

Thinking to add duress on side against k-grip decks (any deck using green), need some testing.
Similar list to Pippo but i don't like spell snares. I initally ran firespout md but i changed em for fire/ice's

[joey223]

Hey everybody, I am needing some help with a U/B/G dreadstill deck. I was wondering if any of you can gimme some tips on what to take out or add in.


3x Island
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical island
4x Scarlding Tarn
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Mishra's Factory
2x Academy Ruin's
___________________________
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Stifle
3x Standstill
4x Thoughtseize
3x Engineered Explosives
3x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's Top
____________________________
4x Dreadnought
4x Goyf
2x Trinket mage
4x Bob
_____
66 cards.


Yes, I am aware that their are 66 cards, and that's mostly why I need help.

I wanted to go more with disruption but I just added 4x thoughtseize.

I added dark confidant for extra card draw. I just always wanted to play bob In a dreadstill deck.

I run 3x Counterbalance and 3x top because I have extra card draw from the confidant. So I figured 11 sources of card draw (not including the top.) would be enough to dig for the dreadnought combo and for counter magic to protect dreadnought.

I also run 2x Mages because of extra draw from bob.

And I added a splash of green for EE and Goyf.

So I'd really appreciate it if I can get some help from you guys!

Thanks!

[keys]

I'd make these changes

-3 Standstill
-3 Mishra's Factory
-2 Daze
-1 Thoughtseize (3 is good)
-1 Academy Ruins (more than 1 is a liability)
-1 EE (2 is plenty)
-1 Dreadnought
+4 Wasteland
+1 Counterbalance
+1 Trickbind

If you play Bob, you don't really need Standstill anymore, and Factory isn't as good as Wasteland without Standstill.

3 Nought/2 Trinket Mage and 5 Stifle effects always worked well for me.

4 CB/3 Top is my personal preference, CB is one of the best cards in the deck IMO.

Basically you're taking Tim Hunt's Ugb CounterTop Goyf deck and swapping the Sowers and spot removal for Trinket Mages, Noughts, and EEs.

[johanessen]

Then it would be nice to add executioneer's capsule

[keys]

Then it would be nice to add executioneer's capsule

Not a bad idea, though I'm not sure what I would take out. Possibly a Nought.

[J.V.]

I don't agree with taking out the Standstills and Factories... Having a Bob under a standstill is the stone cold nuts.
I would play something like this:
Lands:21
3x Island
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical island
3x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland

Creatures:12
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Noncreature Spells:27
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Stifle
3x Standstill
3x Counterbalance
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Engineered Explosives

Thoughtseize doesn't play very nicely with Standstill... The only real reason to splash for Black is Dark Confidant. Also Executioner's Capsule is slow as hell it really just isn't that good.

[Tangle.Wire]

I think he will post it himself, but Wasteland also made #2 on Nürnberg Legacy, grats!

[keys]

I don't agree with taking out the Standstills and Factories... Having a Bob under a standstill is the stone cold nuts.
I would play something like this:

snip

Thoughtseize doesn't play very nicely with Standstill... The only real reason to splash for Black is Dark Confidant. Also Executioner's Capsule is slow as hell it really just isn't that good.

Capsule is good with Trinket Mage and Academy Ruins, and it's faster than EE at taking out Thoctars and Sowers. It's a nice way to diversify your answers. I don't like Standstill and Confidant fighting for the 2cc spot, and Confidant is just better in my opinion. Also, playing factories and wastelands is stressful on the manabase; most 3 color dreadstill lists only use 2 colors maindeck, whereas this one needs all 3.

[joey223]

I did what keys told me to do and so far I am liking the list, but I just don't have the wastelands atm. And I might try out the capsules too.
Thanks guys!

[FoolofaTook]

Thoughtseize doesn't play very nicely with Standstill... The only real reason to splash for Black is Dark Confidant. Also Executioner's Capsule is slow as hell it really just isn't that good.

The card I really find Thoughtseize clashing with is Counterbalance. Not sure why although I think it's because they're both control devices that don't effect the board state. It's hard to have a bunch of those alongside a normal array of counters and not get caught in too passive a position against a good fast opponent.

It's also possible that Thoughtseize just doesn't work well in control-tempo decks in general because it doesn't help you at all during the opponent's turn.

[keys]

The card I really find Thoughtseize clashing with is Counterbalance. Not sure why although I think it's because they're both control devices that don't effect the board state. It's hard to have a bunch of those alongside a normal array of counters and not get caught in too passive a position against a good fast opponent.

It's also possible that Thoughtseize just doesn't work well in control-tempo decks in general because it doesn't help you at all during the opponent's turn.

Thoughtseize basically replaces Spell Snare, which some people would argue is redundant with CB. Tim Hunt plays it in his UGB CounterTop deck, and he's placed well in a lot of high profile tournaments, so it must work for him.

[pippo84]

Actually in that UBG list I would cut the 2 trinket mages, add some dreadnoughts and cut EE for smother.

[keys]

Actually in that UBG list I would cut the 2 trinket mages, add some dreadnoughts and cut EE for smother.

That's an option, but I wouldn't want to lose the ability to fetch Top and other SB cards like Crypt or Needle. I wouldn't be so quick to ditch EE in favor of spot removal, either. Having maindeck answers to mass tokens and noncreature permanents is significant. Also, he's playing Academy ruins already. You have to consider the blue count, too; don't dip below 20.

[FoolofaTook]

Thoughtseize basically replaces Spell Snare, which some people would argue is redundant with CB. Tim Hunt plays it in his UGB CounterTop deck, and he's placed well in a lot of high profile tournaments, so it must work for him.

I haven't been able to make Dreadstill work at all with less than 9 counters. When I take it down to 7, which is kind of a traditional level for an aggro control deck that tries to play both sides of the aisle, I wind up having issues getting Counterbalance or Stiflenought to stick when I cast them.

I guess having Thoughtseize as counters 8-10 might work if you played fairly passively and waited for the chance to sweep for counters before you made a big play. I just see that as too passive though in the current environment.

[keys]

I guess having Thoughtseize as counters 8-10 might work if you played fairly passively and waited for the chance to sweep for counters before you made a big play. I just see that as too passive though in the current environment.

Maybe your word choice is throwing me for a loop, but Thoughtseize is definitely less passive and more proactive than Spell Snare. You grab Krosan Grip or Swords to Plowshares instead of waiting for it to be casted, plus it gives you intel to help determine whether it is safe to cast Stifle/Nought, or whether you need to fetch basics, etc.

[whienot]

I believe that's exactly what FoolofaTook meant, just in a different connotation. By passive he implies saving the Thoughtseize until you are ready to stifle/nought or other important play.

But yes, discard = proactive; counters = reactive. I think I still have the Duelist where they had an article on Proactive vs Reactive elements of control.

[JudasKilled]

Thoughtseize is very good if played correctly in this deck. Ultimetly you have to consider what dreadstill is:

Mana Denial: stifle/waste etc

Combo: stifle/naught

Control: CB top/ counters

Thoughtseize isnt going to assist in your denial plan usually and only sometimes for control.

Holding a seize in the wad for 3 turns until your ready to stifle/naught is a very + EV play in some match ups. Use it to protect your combo if thats how your planning on winning much like storm runs duress. In this deck I would rarely open turn 1 seize unless I had a stellar turn 2 play I absolutely needed to resolve.

[keys]

Thoughtseize is very good if played correctly in this deck. Ultimetly you have to consider what dreadstill is:

Mana Denial: stifle/waste etc

Combo: stifle/naught

Control: CB top/ counters

Thoughtseize isnt going to assist in your denial plan usually and only sometimes for control.

Holding a seize in the wad for 3 turns until your ready to stifle/naught is a very + EV play in some match ups. Use it to protect your combo if thats how your planning on winning much like storm runs duress. In this deck I would rarely open turn 1 seize unless I had a stellar turn 2 play I absolutely needed to resolve.

You have 12 stellar turn 2 plays: Confidant, CounterTop, and Stifle/Nought. T1 Thoughtseize T2 Stifle/Nought is infinitely better than Spell Snare/Snifle/Nought. It's a worse topdeck, but 9/10 times I'd rather have Thoughtseize than Spell Snare.

[Wasteland]

Thoughtseize sucks... Beside the fact that it is not blue and you have to fetch a crappy u-sea (wich isn't even always possible) you don't want to tap out for it round 1, having a brainstorm or a stifle in your hand...

[cjva]

Thoughtseize sucks... Beside the fact that it is not blue and you have to fetch a crappy u-sea (wich isn't even always possible) you don't want to tap out for it round 1, having a brainstorm or a stifle in your hand...

Sharp logic. Guess you play mono-u?

I tend to agree with you when it comes to thoughtsize in these kinds of decks. (much rather going for the mana-denial strategy) but could you back up your strong words in a better way then saying "its not blue" or Crappy U-sea.... With about 10 sources to fetch that crappy u-sea.