[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[FoolofaTook]

Tapping out to play Thoughtseize on turn 1 has a lot of value in an aggro deck that is going to keep piling on until it either succeeds or falls by the wayside. I'm just not sure it has that much value in aggro-control.

Anything that has little value against topdecks seems poorly suited for an archetype where the entire point of the game plan is to get the opponent into topdeck mode and then exploit that position.

Counters have the built-in liability that they do not effect the board state. Thoughtseize not only does not effect the board state, it also doesn't do anything against the card the opponent draws during his turn.

The benefit of a turn 1 Thoughtseize, which is considerable even if it is costly in terms of life, seems to be offset by the rapid decline in it's value thereafter. In an aggro deck the initial value is magnified by the following plays. In Dreadstill it seems like it would be more of a wash and leave the deck weaker in the midgame.

[Shimi]

Why not try Vendillion Clique in the place of Thoughtseize , since it helps to take out StP , PtE , KGrip from opponents hands.It can be trade with a 3/3 creature or even put some clock against the opponent and do not need a black splash.It also has a 3cc which it the great weakness of Dreadstill.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

This is just a random idea, but I wonder if anyone's tried a white splash version of this deck, for Swords to Plowshares and Mother of Runes. Mother just seems like an insane tool, since she can stall the game until you drop a Dreadnought, and she protects 'Nought once you play him.

Anyone tried it?

[joey223]

@Dukedemonknight Yeah one of my friends tried playing mother in the deck and it was really awesome. Its pretty nuts

Okay everybody this is some of the changes i made my list for what I played in the tournament today!
-3 Standstill
-3 Mishra's
-1 Trickbind
-3 Thoughtseize
Took out mishras and standstill's like some of you said.

took out 3 thoughtseize for 3 daze and -1 Trickbind for +1 daze. because i kinda felt the 1 extra stifle wasn't so necessary to me.

Thanks for the help everyone.

4x Underground sea
4x Island
1x Swamp
4x Tropical Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Bayou
1x Academy Ruins
20 lands
____________________
4x Bob
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Trinket Mage
3x Dreadnought
15 creatures
_________________________
4x Brainstorm
4x Force
4x Stifle
3x Top
3x Counterbalance
4x Daze
2x Executioners Capsule
2x Engineered explosives
60 cards
_______________________________

That is my list I ran for today. here is the horrible tournament report for today. >.>...I can't remember much so Ill try.

Game 1: Canadian thresh
He wins the die roll and plays first, and I aggressively mull down to 5. I get mana screwed with no forces and nothing to pitch and wins the game with a mongoose and goyf. (note that I have mulled every single game >;0)

Game 2: Aggressively mulls down to 5 again and is mana screwed but wins with forcing and dazing a bunch of crap and going all the way with goyf and dreadnought.
Game 3: As soon as we finish game 2...-beep beep- 5 TURNS! me: CRAP! so we drew.

Round 2: Trinistax: Winner of SCG 5k Philidelphia actual deck!
Even though I've played against it before I was still scared now that I know it won SCG. lulz.
He wins the die roll and plays first. I aggressively mull to 5 again. (not so mana screwed this time) He first turn chalice at 1? and I daze. I think I force his trinisphere then gets a smokestack lockout on me and I enter scoop phase and scoop. Game 2: I play first and I mull like always. I have a bunch of counters and land so I counter his stuff then he armageddons and I daze. while I have nothing but land on the board. he then geddons again leaving me with no counters in hand. -nods in shame- I draw nothing but goyfs bobs and mages. then he plays a mishra's and goes all the way with it till 4 turns. then I start drawing land and play goyf, goyf, trinket mage. I forget but somehow his mishras wasn't on the board anymore so I went all the way with my creatures leaving him at six and then.... DUN DUN DUN! Baneslayer! and kills ftw

Round 3: Mono green chalice aggro
He wins die roll and I mull again to 5. he turn 1's Spawnwrithe and I daze.(dumb move) Plays Llanowar Elves and plays Elvish Spirit Guide? plays jitte and equips to Guide and beats me down with no creatures to block.

Game 2: I play first and play a land pass. he plays Elves and elvish spirit guide and plays jitte and I force. he plays garruk and I daze and then beats me down leaving me with no blockers again.
Round 3: got a bye.

So I went 1-1-2 2 losses a bye and a draw. I didn't play so well this week but I might mess around with it some more, but for now I will take a break from blue decks Thanks everyone, and good luck!

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I was hoping to get some feedback on this list from folks who have more experience with the archetype than I do. I'm sure the sideboard especially is pretty rough. I don't really have a good sense what the "problem matchups" for DreadStill are either, so please let me know what I should be gunning for with the sideboard as well as what you think of the list.

Without further ado...

4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

4 Stifle
1 Trickbind

4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
4 Force of Will

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp

SIDEBOARD:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Thoughtseize (Duress?)
3 Engineered Plague
4 Meddling Mage (Open slot. I just figured these are decent with Mom, and can help protect Dreadnought. There's probably a better use of the space.)

...What do y'all think of it? Needs moar Standstill?

[joey223]

Not sure if it needs standstill, everybody was talking about that I think 11 sources of card draw is probably enough. I think bob is better anyways because if you're gonna play standstill then it should have mishra's so then there's needed more space for an extra 3/4 cards.

To me it seems like dreadstill's bad matchups are Weenie swarm, It can't handle much aggro deck, but since you're running 4 sword and 4 mom maindeck so you might be okay against aggro.

@sideboard I'm guessing thoughtseize is for combo? meddling mage also combo/etc.(things that hurt you). Not to sure about the sideboard but Mindbreak Trap is also pretty nice against storm combo. Good luck!

[FoolofaTook]

21 lands is a sweet spot for Dreadstill, particularly the 3c variants. You really want to avoid the mulligans as much as you can and there are minor consistency issues in Dreadstill (lack of threats in many opening hands or dreadnought without a stifle effect) already. Having 21 lands gives you an excellent chance of avoiding a mana mulligan at the start.

[joey223]

Its always hard to keep 1 land hands and should always not keep 1 land hands. I'd usually mull down to 5/6. So I've been trying to aggressively mull to get enough forces and daze and stifles because once something hits the board that stays that hurts, its GG. such as Tombstalker and Baneslayer and other big fatties hurts me really bad, Anything that is black creature hurts. My only creature removal is capsule and engineered.

[KubaM]

Few days ago I was playing few games against Enchantress - I was deeply shocked:) how bad it was..something like 1-10 for him:/
Is it really such a bad matchup or I was doing sth wrong? I'm running Ugr list (posted in # 1911). All games I was playing pre side build, however I don't believe sideboard is making much difference (3 Grips?). Countering his draw engine just wasn't enough, he always was able to find some answer for my Dreadnought when I finally deployed him. Only game I won was a quick Nought.
What should be the game/side plan against Enchantress??

[Wasteland]

@Kubam the Plan is to go straight for the Nought and just to take the UR List with all 4 Noughts and 6 Stifles...
@Mother of Runes - IF you want protection, you should go for kira, glass spinner, since it is a.) blue b.) a 2/2 flyer for 2mana which isn't that bad and c.) mother of runes does not help against krosan grip...

[johanessen]

@Kubam the Plan is to go straight for the Nought and just to take the UR List with all 4 Noughts and 6 Stifles...
@Mother of Runes - IF you want protection, you should go for kira, glass spinner, since it is a.) blue b.) a 2/2 flyer for 2mana which isn't that bad and c.) mother of runes does not help against krosan grip...

Kira is too bad if you don't have a dreadnought by the time you play her...

[FoolofaTook]

Kira is too bad if you don't have a dreadnought by the time you play her...

Assuming Kira is ok in the deck overall she's ok with Stiflenought. You're stifling the CIP on the stack not targeting the nought directly.

@joey223 - Looking at the last list you posted I realized it's really not Dreadstill. It's more like a hybrid of Ubg CounterTop and Stiflenought. Replacing Standstill with Dark Confidant, omitting Wasteland and Mishra's Factory and going with just 4 hard counters makes it a different beast.

The answer that CounterTop often uses for Tombstalker and other big beaters is Sower of Temptation, however Dark Confidant makes Sower less friendly to play.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Kira is too bad if you don't have a dreadnought by the time you play her...

It's no problem to play Dreadnought once you have played Kira, since you don't target Dreadnought with Stifle/Trickbind but the CIP ability.

[Tangle.Wire]

There also are Hannah's custody to protect dreadnought, divining top, by myself i had a look on lightning greaves for the URG version as hasting Goofy or Noughts are the nuts + they have shroud.

[pippo84]

Enchantress is just a piece of cake, really easy MU!
You just need to know how the opponent's deck works and you win 90% of times.
As for thoughtseize in this deck. I tried it at the Spell Snare slots ages ago. My conclusion is we want to stay mana open to stifle etc.
Not a great inclusion for the deck.

[KubaM]

pippo84 Could you possibly be more specific? :) About Enchantress obv

[pippo84]

Enchantress is a deck that just loses to a fast nought or a counterbalance. Elephant grass is not a problem because you can pay the mana to attack. The must counters are solitary confinement and replenish. If you stick a cb to counter utopia sprawl and other accelerators (1cc) and keep counter for the bombs you win. Btw stopping the accelerators is a pain in the axx for them. If you have more questions feel free to ask. I played ages against this deck because a friend of mine plays it.

[Shimi]

Enchantress is a deck that just loses to a fast nought or a counterbalance. Elephant grass is not a problem because you can pay the mana to attack. The must counters are solitary confinement and replenish. If you stick a cb to counter utopia sprawl and other accelerators (1cc) and keep counter for the bombs you win. Btw stopping the accelerators is a pain in the axx for them. If you have more questions feel free to ask. I played ages against this deck because a friend of mine plays it.

Agree , I played 4 times against Ench in tournaments and always made 2-0.It is pretty easy , pos SB you have EE and KGrip that can deal with confinament and elephant grass.CB is almost good game , hold an FoW for Replenish.

[OurSerratedDust]

Here's my list. I'm going to give this some good testing as soon as I get my last tarmogoyf.

// Lands
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [BD] Island (3)
2 [B] Volcanic Island
3 [A] Tropical Island
1 [R] Underground Sea

// Creatures
3 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [NE] Daze
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [OD] Standstill
1 [TSP] Trickbind
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [BD] Brainstorm
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CS] Counterbalance

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 3 [R] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [R] Lightning Bolt
SB: 3 [7E] Duress

Its similar to JV's, with an additional fetch and an underground sea in place of a Volcanic island. The idea is that you can surprise Duress them games two and three, and also potential EE for four if needed. Andy Probasco ran a a similar thing in his one of his countertop lists.

What do you guys think of this idea? Has anyone tried this before? Is six enough fetchlands to make this work?

[whienot]

Probasco had 8 fetches, so he could hit that random U. Sea consistantly. He also really only boarded them against combo. Dreadstill already has an outstanding game against combo.

Duress obviously has applications against control and getting to see your opponent's hand is always good.

Test away, I'd love to read your experiences.