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Thread: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

  1. #1961
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Yeah dude, you would probably be better off just running Spell Pierce in the place of Duress. Is good against all the things Duress, is blue and lets you keep stifle mana open.

    Also, I wouldn't want to cut back on Volcanic Islands at all, since Merfolk and Goblins will be trying to Wasteland it.

  2. #1962
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by BKclassic View Post
    Yeah dude, you would probably be better off just running Spell Pierce in the place of Duress. Is good against all the things Duress, is blue and lets you keep stifle mana open.

    Also, I wouldn't want to cut back on Volcanic Islands at all, since Merfolk and Goblins will be trying to Wasteland it.
    +1 I was going to say the same thing, but then I left work :)

  3. #1963
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I am trying something packing Mox Diamonds on both lists:

    4 Dreadnought
    1 Trinket Mage
    3 Divining Top
    3 mox diamond
    4 stifle
    4 force of will
    4 standstill
    3 counterbalance
    3 spell snare
    4 daze
    2 engineered explosives
    1 trickbind
    1 crucible of worlds
    4 Brainstorm

    2 Volcanic Island
    5 Island
    3 Wasteland
    4 Mishras factory
    4 Scalding tarn
    2 polluted delta

    Sideboard:

    3 Pyroblast
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Tormods crypt
    1 relic of progenitus
    4 lightning bolt
    3 firespout

    I just packed an additional playset of Simian Spirit Guides a coupple of days ago and wondered about how usefull they where (i didn't notice mox diamond and lotus petal that day) so pre board i could use it often to cast first turn standstill or just could play around dazes nicely. I didn't had any situation where i could have dropped a first turn nought but it still could be possible.

    As i know that mox diamond will give card disadvantage i feld like having it in the UR build is no problem at all, i run Crucible, also post board it keeps EE viable even with blood moon and i really love dropping first turn CB,Standstill or just a top+look.

    -> Anyone ever wasted ideas of playing electropotence with dreadnoughts just to give it a job?

  4. #1964
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Needs Thirst for Knowledge

  5. #1965
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by joey223 View Post
    @Dukedemonknight Yeah one of my friends tried playing mother in the deck and it was really awesome. Its pretty nuts

    Okay everybody this is some of the changes i made my list for what I played in the tournament today!
    -3 Standstill
    -3 Mishra's
    -1 Trickbind
    -3 Thoughtseize
    Took out mishras and standstill's like some of you said.

    took out 3 thoughtseize for 3 daze and -1 Trickbind for +1 daze. because i kinda felt the 1 extra stifle wasn't so necessary to me.

    Thanks for the help everyone.

    4x Underground sea
    4x Island
    1x Swamp
    4x Tropical Island
    4x Polluted Delta
    2x Misty Rainforest
    1x Bayou
    1x Academy Ruins
    20 lands
    ____________________
    4x Bob
    4x Tarmogoyf
    3x Trinket Mage
    3x Dreadnought
    15 creatures
    _________________________
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Force
    4x Stifle
    3x Top
    3x Counterbalance
    4x Daze
    2x Executioners Capsule
    2x Engineered explosives
    60 cards
    _______________________________

    That is my list I ran for today. here is the horrible tournament report for today. >.>...I can't remember much so Ill try.

    Game 1: Canadian thresh
    He wins the die roll and plays first, and I aggressively mull down to 5. I get mana screwed with no forces and nothing to pitch and wins the game with a mongoose and goyf. (note that I have mulled every single game >;0)

    Game 2: Aggressively mulls down to 5 again and is mana screwed but wins with forcing and dazing a bunch of crap and going all the way with goyf and dreadnought.
    Game 3: As soon as we finish game 2...-beep beep- 5 TURNS! me: CRAP! so we drew.

    Round 2: Trinistax: Winner of SCG 5k Philidelphia actual deck!
    Even though I've played against it before I was still scared now that I know it won SCG. lulz.
    He wins the die roll and plays first. I aggressively mull to 5 again. (not so mana screwed this time) He first turn chalice at 1? and I daze. I think I force his trinisphere then gets a smokestack lockout on me and I enter scoop phase and scoop. Game 2: I play first and I mull like always. I have a bunch of counters and land so I counter his stuff then he armageddons and I daze. while I have nothing but land on the board. he then geddons again leaving me with no counters in hand. -nods in shame- I draw nothing but goyfs bobs and mages. then he plays a mishra's and goes all the way with it till 4 turns. then I start drawing land and play goyf, goyf, trinket mage. I forget but somehow his mishras wasn't on the board anymore so I went all the way with my creatures leaving him at six and then.... DUN DUN DUN! Baneslayer! and kills ftw

    Round 3: Mono green chalice aggro
    He wins die roll and I mull again to 5. he turn 1's Spawnwrithe and I daze.(dumb move) Plays Llanowar Elves and plays Elvish Spirit Guide? plays jitte and equips to Guide and beats me down with no creatures to block.

    Game 2: I play first and play a land pass. he plays Elves and elvish spirit guide and plays jitte and I force. he plays garruk and I daze and then beats me down leaving me with no blockers again.
    Round 3: got a bye.

    So I went 1-1-2 2 losses a bye and a draw. I didn't play so well this week but I might mess around with it some more, but for now I will take a break from blue decks Thanks everyone, and good luck!


    Why would you ever mull so much every game in a deck already full of card disadvantage especially since you removed standstills ,which are pretty much the draw engine of the deck. If you have to mull to five every game its definitely time to redesign your deck.

  6. #1966
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    I'm thinking about correct choice of deck for GP Madrid in February. Although I'm playing Ugr Dreadstill for more than a year, so (more or less ) I know how to play it, Ugr Threshold seems to have more equal matchups with 90% of decks..
    Why (if yes) would you stick to Dreadstill?

  7. #1967

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by KubaM View Post
    I'm thinking about correct choice of deck for GP Madrid in February. Although I'm playing Ugr Dreadstill for more than a year, so (more or less ) I know how to play it, Ugr Threshold seems to have more equal matchups with 90% of decks..
    Why (if yes) would you stick to Dreadstill?
    It plays counterbalance and has explosive starts

  8. #1968

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by johanessen View Post
    It plays counterbalance and has explosive starts
    Yeah, Dreadstill is the only deck in the meta that combines heavy counter action with the potential to actually win on turn 4. It doesn't happen very often but I have won games against Ichorid and ANT when they were happy with their draw and then couldn't handle a turn 2 Dreadnought. There are no other decks that play counters that can handle that combination of opponents game 1 and dominate them off of a good draw.

  9. #1969

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    Yeah, Dreadstill is the only deck in the meta that combines heavy counter action with the potential to actually win on turn 4. It doesn't happen very often but I have won games against Ichorid and ANT when they were happy with their draw and then couldn't handle a turn 2 Dreadnought. There are no other decks that play counters that can handle that combination of opponents game 1 and dominate them off of a good draw.
    Sorry, but this isnt true....

    The dreadstill isnt the ONLY deck with hard counter shell and can win in turn 4...

    Let´s Rock:

    Turn 1: Fetch, tropical island, noble hierarch, pass;
    Turn 2: Land, something...
    Turn 3: land, Natural Order, sac noble, put in game Jesus (read Progenitus);

    Is amazing!

    The guy will be killed in turn 5, is true, but with much more consistence.

    I have the two builds decks (Pro Bant and Dreadstill), but, in my metagame (Zoo, zoo, zoo, zoo.... and.... ZOOOO!), the first version is more indicate.


    Cyah,

    Lammina!
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  10. #1970
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Lammina View Post
    I have the two builds decks (Pro Bant and Dreadstill), but, in my metagame (Zoo, zoo, zoo, zoo.... and.... ZOOOO!), the first version is more indicate
    Ok, I'm not usually one to even acknowledge trolls, but I'm a little annoyed right now... This is the last time I'm going to say this, Zoo is by no means a terrible matchup it's 45-55 at very worst as long as you don't play like a retard. And second you actually need more thing to happen for turn 3 Progenitus than and turn 2 Dreadnought.
    Things needed for a turn 2 Dreadnought:
    2 Lands (one being able to produce blue mana)
    1 Stifle
    1 Phyrexian Dreadnought

    Things needed for a turn 3 Progenitus
    3 Lands
    1 Birds/Noble Hierarch
    1 Natural Order

    So it's actually less consistent to have a turn 3 Prog...
    Last edited by J.V.; 12-10-2009 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Thanks Keys :-)
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  11. #1971

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by Lammina View Post
    Sorry, but this isnt true....

    The dreadstill isnt the ONLY deck with hard counter shell and can win in turn 4...

    Let´s Rock:

    Turn 1: Fetch, tropical island, noble hierarch, pass;
    Turn 2: Land, something...
    Turn 3: land, Natural Order, sac noble, put in game Jesus (read Progenitus);

    Is amazing!

    The guy will be killed in turn 5, is true, but with much more consistence.

    I have the two builds decks (Pro Bant and Dreadstill), but, in my metagame (Zoo, zoo, zoo, zoo.... and.... ZOOOO!), the first version is more indicate.


    Cyah,

    Lammina!
    Turn 4 is not turn 5.

    The question is how the NOGenitus deck does against both Storm and Dredge game 1 before it boards in hate? My guess is it's DoA against Dredge and iffy against Storm. Dreadstill has a 33/67 matchup against Dredge game 1 and about a 70/30 matchup against Storm.

    The thing that's really nice about Dreadstill is that it has a fairly smooth power relationship to the meta as a whole at the moment. It does have issues with Zoo, although you can win that matchup, and it does have issues with Merfolk before sideboarding, however it's a very consistent deck against most of the meta.

    I don't see any mostly dead matchups in game 1 at this point. That's mainly because no matter what you're facing you have the chance at a turn 2 Dreadnought and a chance that you also have a counter to back it up for the 2 turns you need to kill after that. Having Stifle as a fully functional part of the package, because it also enables that turn 4 kill, is an advantage that many control decks cannot afford pre-board.

  12. #1972
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by J.V. View Post

    Things needed for a turn 3 Progenitus
    3 Lands
    1 Birds/Noble Hierarch
    1 Natural Order
    Fixed. I play both decks as well and Dreadstill is a much more fluid deck than Pro CBTop. Getting to 4 mana and a green creature is not as simple as it sounds. All of the deck's gas is sitting at 3-4cc, so if you get a hand that is lacking acceleration (and you only play 4 Hierarchs), it can be quite slow.

    That said... I would still play Pro CBTop is a major tourney just because of Zoo. I played Zoo in my last tourney and 2-0 Ur Dreadstill. 4 Path, 4 Pridemage, and 3-4 Krosan Grip from the SB is just too many answers to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    Dreadstill has a 33/67 matchup against Dredge game 1 and about a 70/30 matchup against Storm.
    This is a good point and I would say it's 40/60 in Dredge's favor game one, but 70/30 in Dreadstill's favor game two.

    My deck looks like this post SB:

    4 Goyf (win)
    3 Nought (removes bridges)
    2 Trinket Mage (searches Crypts/EE)

    3 Tormod's Crypt
    2 EE
    3 Firespout
    3 Lightning Bolt
    3 Pyroblast

    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle (counters Narcos)
    1 Trickbind
    2 Daze
    1 Spell Snare

    3 Wasteland
    3 Mishra's
    6 Fetch
    3 Volc
    3 Trop
    3 Island

    It's a beating. Don't know how much the Dredge matchup matters to anyone here, but if Dredge ever becomes DTB, Dreadstill would prey on them.

  13. #1973
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    On Dredge:
    In my opinion it's very tough matchup. My sideboard plan is (Ugr):
    In:
    3x Firespout
    3x REB
    1x Trap
    1x Crypt
    1x Relic
    Out:
    2x Spell Snare
    3x Standstill
    4x CB

    @keys are you running mainboard Bolts? Because if not, I see no point bringing them in against Dredge.

  14. #1974
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by KubaM View Post
    On Dredge:
    In my opinion it's very tough matchup. My sideboard plan is (Ugr):
    In:
    3x Firespout
    3x REB
    1x Trap
    1x Crypt
    1x Relic
    Out:
    2x Spell Snare
    3x Standstill
    4x CB

    @keys are you running mainboard Bolts? Because if not, I see no point bringing them in against Dredge.
    I don't run maindeck bolts anymore. I would take out 2 tops as well. Bolts at least kill Putrid Imp and Narcos. CounterTop is near worthless. With 3 relic/crypt + 2 Trinket Mage you're effectively playing 5 ways to reset them. EE and Firespout are also 5 total ways to sweep the board. You can either drop a turn 2 Nought and just race, or you can grind them out in the long game. Both are pretty effective, from my experience.

    In my testing, it's really really hard for Dredge to win unless they get a broken 1-2 turn hand AND Dreadstill doesn't have the counter.

  15. #1975

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Has it gone out of style to use 4x anti-GY in the SB?

    My sideboard almost always looks like this:

    2x Tormod's Crypt
    2x Relic of Progenitus
    2x Pithing Needle
    2x Red Elemental Blast
    2x Pyroblast
    3x Firespout
    2x Krosan Grip

    I go +2 Tormod's, +2 Relic, +2 Pithing Needle, +3 Firespout, -3 Counterbalance, -2 Spell Snare, -3 Daze, -1 Sensei's Divining Top. Game 2 is pretty easy at that point unless I won game 1. Even then it's better than 50/50 and great in game 3.

  16. #1976
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    Has it gone out of style to use 4x anti-GY in the SB?

    My sideboard almost always looks like this:

    2x Tormod's Crypt
    2x Relic of Progenitus
    2x Pithing Needle
    2x Red Elemental Blast
    2x Pyroblast
    3x Firespout
    2x Krosan Grip

    I go +2 Tormod's, +2 Relic, +2 Pithing Needle, +3 Firespout, -3 Counterbalance, -2 Spell Snare, -3 Daze, -1 Sensei's Divining Top. Game 2 is pretty easy at that point unless I won game 1. Even then it's better than 50/50 and great in game 3.
    If you are talking about Ichorid, I would say definitely don't board out Counterbalance. It keeps them off Cabal Therapy, so if you have FoW you can stop them from comboing out on you with Dread Return. Hitting Ancient Grudge can come in handy also. On the other hand, do board out Standstill, as they can probably accomplish more under than Standstill.

    Also, my current SB has only 3 Tormod's Crypts. Most Dredge decks are just running Ancient Grudge these days to deal with artifact hate and Tormod's Crypt is faster. Additionally Tormod's Crypt is much more effective against Reanimator.

    Also, I wouldn't want to board out Daze and probably wouldn't bring in Pithing Needle. It seems kinda weak against Putrid Imp and Stifle and Wasteland are already both effective against Cephalid Coliseum.

  17. #1977

    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by BKclassic View Post
    If you are talking about Ichorid, I would say definitely don't board out Counterbalance. It keeps them off Cabal Therapy, so if you have FoW you can stop them from comboing out on you with Dread Return. Hitting Ancient Grudge can come in handy also. On the other hand, do board out Standstill, as they can probably accomplish more under than Standstill.

    Also, my current SB has only 3 Tormod's Crypts. Most Dredge decks are just running Ancient Grudge these days to deal with artifact hate and Tormod's Crypt is faster. Additionally Tormod's Crypt is much more effective against Reanimator.

    Also, I wouldn't want to board out Daze and probably wouldn't bring in Pithing Needle. It seems kinda weak against Putrid Imp and Stifle and Wasteland are already both effective against Cephalid Coliseum.
    Being able to drop Pithing Needle turn 1 against Putrid Imp can really hamstring them. Also once you have that done if you land the other one on Cephalid Coliseum you can start messing with their mana base big time. Ichorid is very susceptible to getting mana screwed because they do use the Cities of Brass and Gemstone Mines to handle a lot of their needs.

    The other thing is that Sadistic Hypnotist is getting played now. It's nice to be able to shut that down too. Ichorid always seems to have one ringer in there somewhere with an activated ability where if it lands you're in deep trouble.

    Counterbalance is on balance really weak against Ichorid and I prefer to have proactive things to do that hit their gameplan early on. I leave the Standstills in because there are situations where I'm going to lay them down, like when I have a Goyf out to block Ichorid. It's a 3 card dig for Force of Will if they try to Dread Return something nasty and it doesn't hurt against Cabal Therapy either.

    Realistically the best use for either Standstill or Counterbalance in this matchup is to pitch to Force of Will though.

  18. #1978
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    Being able to drop Pithing Needle turn 1 against Putrid Imp can really hamstring them. Also once you have that done if you land the other one on Cephalid Coliseum you can start messing with their mana base big time. Ichorid is very susceptible to getting mana screwed because they do use the Cities of Brass and Gemstone Mines to handle a lot of their needs.

    The other thing is that Sadistic Hypnotist is getting played now. It's nice to be able to shut that down too. Ichorid always seems to have one ringer in there somewhere with an activated ability where if it lands you're in deep trouble.

    Counterbalance is on balance really weak against Ichorid and I prefer to have proactive things to do that hit their gameplan early on. I leave the Standstills in because there are situations where I'm going to lay them down, like when I have a Goyf out to block Ichorid. It's a 3 card dig for Force of Will if they try to Dread Return something nasty and it doesn't hurt against Cabal Therapy either.

    Realistically the best use for either Standstill or Counterbalance in this matchup is to pitch to Force of Will though.
    I agree that Pithing Needle is okay against Ichorid, but I don't believe that you should be boarding Daze, Top or Counterbalance to make it happen. Daze is way better on the play than Needle since it can answer things other than Putrid Imp on the play.

    I can't imagine an Ichorid player Dread Returning under a Standstill without Cabal Therapying first. At any rate, Counterbalance does alot against Ichorid. If they are DDDing you, you will have time get it set up and be able to counter their Therapies and Ancient Grudges. If you keep your Dazes in, and board in a few REBs, they won't be able to combo quickly against you.

  19. #1979
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by BKclassic View Post
    I agree that Pithing Needle is okay against Ichorid, but I don't believe that you should be boarding Daze, Top or Counterbalance to make it happen. Daze is way better on the play than Needle since it can answer things other than Putrid Imp on the play.

    I can't imagine an Ichorid player Dread Returning under a Standstill without Cabal Therapying first. At any rate, Counterbalance does alot against Ichorid. If they are DDDing you, you will have time get it set up and be able to counter their Therapies and Ancient Grudges. If you keep your Dazes in, and board in a few REBs, they won't be able to combo quickly against you.
    I strongly disagree. Trying to set up CounterTop to counter the few spell they actually play is not worthwhile. Out of all the cards you could possibly counter (Breakthrough, Careful Study, Putrid Imp, Tireless Tribe, Pithing Needle, and Cabal Therapy), Therapy is the only one that it might have time to stop. All the others will be played turn 1.

    You're much better off boarding in removal like Bolt, and obviously Daze should never be boarded out.

    Another thing-- I would never play Standstill against Dredge, unless the board position is so good that you'll win the next turn (but more often I'd just save it to pitch to FoW). Dredge is built to run without spells, and it's way too easy for them to take advantage of that... if you end up having to break it yourself, you basically let them combo off.

  20. #1980
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    Re: [Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    I strongly disagree. Trying to set up CounterTop to counter the few spell they actually play is not worthwhile. Out of all the cards you could possibly counter (Breakthrough, Careful Study, Putrid Imp, Tireless Tribe, Pithing Needle, and Cabal Therapy), Therapy is the only one that it might have time to stop. All the others will be played turn 1.

    You're much better off boarding in removal like Bolt, and obviously Daze should never be boarded out.

    Another thing-- I would never play Standstill against Dredge, unless the board position is so good that you'll win the next turn (but more often I'd just save it to pitch to FoW). Dredge is built to run without spells, and it's way too easy for them to take advantage of that... if you end up having to break it yourself, you basically let them combo off.
    It all depends on how many cards you have to board in versus Dredge and your MD setup. Counterbalance obviously isn't the most interactive card against Dredge, but if they are just DDDing, I stand by the idea that they are going to have a hard time winning if they can't Therapy or Grudge you. My sideboarding strategy for Ichorid definitely involves leaving a few in.

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