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Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #5261

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Myth is good, but all you are doing is putting a big beater down.

    Doesn't further yoruself in the control aspects.
    What other means do traditional U/W Landstill control builds have left to break Standstill these days? Mishra's Factory appears somewhat outdated and always restricted the number of certain valuable cards like Counterspell. Myth Realized is a solid answer to opposing planeswalkers and allows for powerful early game sequences (T1 Myth, T2 Standstill).

  2. #5262
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Myth is fine, but it's just a dude. Also restricts your ability to play EE on 1 at times and is much worse in the mid to late game. It is sweet with wrath though.
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    What other means do traditional U/W Landstill control builds have left to break Standstill these days? Mishra's Factory appears somewhat outdated and always restricted the number of certain valuable cards like Counterspell. Myth Realized is a solid answer to opposing planeswalkers and allows for powerful early game sequences (T1 Myth, T2 Standstill).
    Thats a bad play if you do turn 1 myth, turn 2 standstill.

    1. myth won't grow
    2. you are leaving yourself open to problems and walking into counters dropping it in this instance.

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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Myth is fine, but it's just a dude. Also restricts your ability to play EE on 1 at times and is much worse in the mid to late game. It is sweet with wrath though.
    Thats how i feel. Its just a dude, that does NOTHING else.

    UW landstill isn't about that option to just throw down a vanilla beater.

  5. #5265
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by ventouza6969 View Post
    i just saw this list on tc decks and my first thing i did was to find out if there any thoughts about this list. tell me why only one jace and how good was the blessed alliance?
    I know its super late, but I just saw this.

    On only one Jace - with both Standstill and Search for Azcanta, its a little redundant. Helps to have one to attack from a different angle but I'm not really sure its needed.

    Blessed Alliance was pretty good - 90% of the time its just Diabolic Edict but I'd definitely keep playing at least 1 for TNN decks. The second could maybe be swapped with the sideboard Path depending on what you expect to play against.

  6. #5266
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Thats a bad play if you do turn 1 myth, turn 2 standstill.

    1. myth won't grow
    For the record, you can force Myth to grow under a Standstill by paying 2 at instant speed.

    Edit: to expand upon this, that it sits on the battlefield as a non-creature means you can still play Terminus. That's really what this deck is though, UWr miracles with inconsistency built in - just because you have Standstill, doesn't mean you can play it (this is not the case with Predict, Azcanta, and Counterbalance which are the main points of differentiation). The issue with Myth Realized has more to do with probably leading Tundra in a Wasteland format...throw in DRS and how you'll need white mana to answer it and it's probably Tundra #2 and hope they don't have Wasteland #2. The significant risk associated with Tundra first creates a cascading problem as you have these SCMs in your deck that are going to take that much longer to get to 3 mana (assuming here you want value, probably flashback StP).

    For simplicity's sake we'll assume the list has 4x Factory, 4x SCM, and 2 slots of JTMS - how many more slots do you need as wincons? That answer is probably 2, and Myth Realized probably needs to be a bit higher to assure a consistent game plan - this is, at least, the lesson of Delver decks: 8x 1 drop threats, 3-4x 2-drop threats, and about 2-3x large threats (the 8x 1-drops is the key point though, where we count Factory as 1-drops). This is where Mentor comes in, and though it may come down after a Standstill, it allows you to establish basic lands (starting with Islands) and prove more difficult to deal with than a later game Myth.

    Myth is better at enacting a Standstill plan that can play differently than miracles (incorporating mana denial for example), but Mentor is the higher quality/safer card (but you're just playing worse miracles without significant gain of function). The more interesting question right now though should be whether or not UWx Standstill provides a shell for ditching JTMS for Teferi, Hero of Dominaria? If yes, is it Mentor or Myth that best enacts this gameplan?

    As far as the talk about Azcanta goes, it is likely meant to favor a build moving away from Standstill (down to a 3x) and towards Mentor. I would doubt that Azcanta and Myth are supposed to play well together.
    Last edited by Fox; 05-26-2018 at 10:41 PM.

  7. #5267
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Initial testing looking promising with Teferi at 2-0-1. The tie was a g3 that was going to end in a win, but the important thing was getting to run into 3x BUG decks in a row by sheer luck (Delver, Shardless, NicFit). The first two decks are sub-optimal presentations of decks that should either be Grixis Delver or Czech Pile, but it never really felt like any of these three approaches to BUG posed much of a credible threat. The room consisted of 2x UW control, 2x NicFit, 1x BUG Delver, 1x Shardless, 1x BR Reanimator, 1x Infect, 1x Angel Stompy (yes he melded Bruna and Gisela) and I think like 2x Grixis Delver. I'm probably missing a few decks but I don't remember seeing any DnT/Lands/Storm/red prison vairants/SnT/Elves. I want to say Infect got the 3-0 and I took second...

    Lands: 23
    4x Flooded Strand
    4x assorted blue fetch
    3x Island
    2x Plains
    2x Tundra
    4x Mishra's Factory
    3x Wasteland
    1x Karakas

    Creatures: 5
    3x SCM
    2x Mentor

    PW: 2
    2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria

    Ice Age block: 19
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Portent
    4x FoW
    4x StP
    3x Counterspell

    Spells: 11
    4x Standstill
    3x Terminus
    2x Search for Azcanta
    1x Council's Judgement
    1x Blessed Alliance

    SB:
    2x CP
    2x Surgical
    2x Disenchant
    2x Flusterstorm
    1x Humility
    1x Serenity
    1x Powder Keg (not buying EE for a 2-color deck)
    1x B2B
    1x RiP
    1x CJ
    1x E-Tutor

    In the main it's probably going to be a cut to 22x lands and -1 either Standstill or Azcanta, but more testing is needed (4x Factory necessitates 4x Standstill, and I really wanted to see how real Teferi's +1 is with double Azcanta activations). The second Mentor felt unnecessary, but that card wins out of nowhere and is probably the only way one is beating R/G Lands after donating 20 life with StP; even at 2 slots I like the theory of Magus of Entreat the Monks more than a 1-1 split with Entreat the Angels. Portent [with 23 lands, where I expect to naturally make land drops on turn 1 and 2] does everything we want between drawing through Leo, setting up Terminus, and late game shenanigans with Teferi -3 shuffles (or sandbagging). The theory behind Blessed Alliance being good vs TNN and Burn probably means I won't swap it out. The 3x Counterspell might stand out, but the premise being tested here is the idea that JTMS is good, but Teferi might be better. JTMS does a lot, but he doesn't move towards an ultimate win while accruing CA and he also does not directly contest opposing PWs (in a truly degenerate game remember that Teferi is a wincon as he keeps putting himself on top of deck to prevent loss by mill). Coming back to Counterspell, Teferi is one mana quicker when it comes to slam your walker, pass the turn (+1 untaps lands) and actual Counterspell whatever they do (or Blessed Alliance to kill the attacker).

    As far as the sideboard goes the E-Tutor doesn't really need to be there, but I'm more confidant thinning Standstill/Azcanta when I know Tutor is coming in. I couldn't get to the point of Crucible [or an effect like Sacred Ground or Teferi's Response], but as far as utility lands go I wouldn't mind having Karakas #2/Ghost Quarter recursion and a spicy one like Kjeldoran Outpost or even actual Desert for enemy Strix/SCM nonsense. B2B may seem out of place, but it's a free roll with Teferi +1; in the same way Faerie Conclave is a little obsolete now if Choke was a main reason for its consideration. Serenity can be lumped in with E-Tutor as a package deal that stays or goes together. The SB isn't optimized vs Burn, but I'm sure a second copy of Blessed Alliance would be more than adequate were that a concern. There are plenty of cards you could choose from to improve both the Burn & red prison matchups like Hydroblast or you could even go really deep and add Infernal Tutor to the hated targets with a card like Flash Flood.

    I'll get in another four rounds this saturday, but I do think Teferi in a Standstill shell might actually be optimal in the non-Myth Realized shell. I'd rather go mana positive with Teferi + Stasis, but doing this much nothing with Standstill was still a blast.

  8. #5268
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Initial testing looking promising with Teferi at 2-0-1. The tie was a g3 that was going to end in a win, but the important thing was getting to run into 3x BUG decks in a row by sheer luck (Delver, Shardless, NicFit). The first two decks are sub-optimal presentations of decks that should either be Grixis Delver or Czech Pile, but it never really felt like any of these three approaches to BUG posed much of a credible threat. The room consisted of 2x UW control, 2x NicFit, 1x BUG Delver, 1x Shardless, 1x BR Reanimator, 1x Infect, 1x Angel Stompy (yes he melded Bruna and Gisela) and I think like 2x Grixis Delver. I'm probably missing a few decks but I don't remember seeing any DnT/Lands/Storm/red prison vairants/SnT/Elves. I want to say Infect got the 3-0 and I took second...

    Lands: 23
    4x Flooded Strand
    4x assorted blue fetch
    3x Island
    2x Plains
    2x Tundra
    4x Mishra's Factory
    3x Wasteland
    1x Karakas

    Creatures: 5
    3x SCM
    2x Mentor

    PW: 2
    2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria

    Ice Age block: 19
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Portent
    4x FoW
    4x StP
    3x Counterspell

    Spells: 11
    4x Standstill
    3x Terminus
    2x Search for Azcanta
    1x Council's Judgement
    1x Blessed Alliance

    SB:
    2x CP
    2x Surgical
    2x Disenchant
    2x Flusterstorm
    1x Humility
    1x Serenity
    1x Powder Keg (not buying EE for a 2-color deck)
    1x B2B
    1x RiP
    1x CJ
    1x E-Tutor

    In the main it's probably going to be a cut to 22x lands and -1 either Standstill or Azcanta, but more testing is needed (4x Factory necessitates 4x Standstill, and I really wanted to see how real Teferi's +1 is with double Azcanta activations). The second Mentor felt unnecessary, but that card wins out of nowhere and is probably the only way one is beating R/G Lands after donating 20 life with StP; even at 2 slots I like the theory of Magus of Entreat the Monks more than a 1-1 split with Entreat the Angels. Portent [with 23 lands, where I expect to naturally make land drops on turn 1 and 2] does everything we want between drawing through Leo, setting up Terminus, and late game shenanigans with Teferi -3 shuffles (or sandbagging). The theory behind Blessed Alliance being good vs TNN and Burn probably means I won't swap it out. The 3x Counterspell might stand out, but the premise being tested here is the idea that JTMS is good, but Teferi might be better. JTMS does a lot, but he doesn't move towards an ultimate win while accruing CA and he also does not directly contest opposing PWs (in a truly degenerate game remember that Teferi is a wincon as he keeps putting himself on top of deck to prevent loss by mill). Coming back to Counterspell, Teferi is one mana quicker when it comes to slam your walker, pass the turn (+1 untaps lands) and actual Counterspell whatever they do (or Blessed Alliance to kill the attacker).

    As far as the sideboard goes the E-Tutor doesn't really need to be there, but I'm more confidant thinning Standstill/Azcanta when I know Tutor is coming in. I couldn't get to the point of Crucible [or an effect like Sacred Ground or Teferi's Response], but as far as utility lands go I wouldn't mind having Karakas #2/Ghost Quarter recursion and a spicy one like Kjeldoran Outpost or even actual Desert for enemy Strix/SCM nonsense. B2B may seem out of place, but it's a free roll with Teferi +1; in the same way Faerie Conclave is a little obsolete now if Choke was a main reason for its consideration. Serenity can be lumped in with E-Tutor as a package deal that stays or goes together. The SB isn't optimized vs Burn, but I'm sure a second copy of Blessed Alliance would be more than adequate were that a concern. There are plenty of cards you could choose from to improve both the Burn & red prison matchups like Hydroblast or you could even go really deep and add Infernal Tutor to the hated targets with a card like Flash Flood.

    I'll get in another four rounds this saturday, but I do think Teferi in a Standstill shell might actually be optimal in the non-Myth Realized shell. I'd rather go mana positive with Teferi + Stasis, but doing this much nothing with Standstill was still a blast.
    Why do you need the wasteland?

    How are you dealing with terminus with 4 brainstorms?

    How is teferi better for non-myth sells?

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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Why do you need the wasteland?

    How are you dealing with terminus with 4 brainstorms?

    How is teferi better for non-myth sells?
    Wasteland offers a different angle of attack, which I value over cutting all three and replacing with 1x Island/1x White fetch/1x nonland flex slot. Also when you're on UW only, it becomes important to to destroy anything that casts Pyroblast. You don't really win games of UW vs. UWr if a Volc is used to cast and then flashback the same Blast. It's also often necessary to snipe opposing Wastelands under a Standstill to make way for a future Factory. More fringe benefits include contesting Depths, Post, Price of Progress, Port (I do play some WW sorc speed effects), and enemy Azcanta.

    Terminus is the kind of card that usually ends games if it hits once and that's more true if a creature-based opponent cracked a Standstill at any point. Between the inherent swingy-ness of Terminus, having 8 cantrips/SCM, and 23 lands (+2 Azcanta)...the idea is loosely that it'll work or become castable while following the gameplan. In the games I've played so far I'm finding myself more concerned with finding one than having to set it up from hand. There are other options I considered like 2x Verdict/1x Settle the Wreckage (anti-TNN/Lage/Elves, but weak to soft permission); but I'm going to see more DnT in my meta, so these cards aren't going to work so well. I also really like the threat which begins on turn 3 of miracle Terminus, play land, Standstill, go. All that said, this is still a period of testing for ideal board wipes, and I'm only at 3 matches so far.

    Teferi is a bit more ambitious on the mana and has this prevalent idea of resolve->+1, untap 2 lands->represent a two mana effect (currently set primarily as Counterspell). Nothing good is going to come of either Plains or Tundra to bring out Myth, as one of them can't help provide and the other is gonna eat a Wasteland activation (and then you're going to have to answer an on-board threat, which means you doubling down on the lose to Wasteland plan as Tundra #2 comes out). So these are two very different opening strategies as the Cspell heavy strategy will prefer leading out with Island followed by fetchland, which will definitely grab Island #2 if opponent's board is passive and their play patterns compliant. When you look at these preferred openers, we're no longer gunning for white [in a vacuum] until turn 3 which coincides with Mentor. Myth Realized doesn't have harmonious timing in this case, and you have to work a whole lot harder to win with this comparatively low quality wincon; you are also probably donating more than 2 slots to Myth.

    Myth Realized is all about teaming up with Factory to get under Standstill and about being a non-creature when Terminus resolves. This is hardly mana-intensive so you're free to play aggressive with cards like Wasteland/Stifle/Daze. While you're losing land drops, presumably burying your opponent, you're still playing with >20 lands and you should probably be playing 4x Terminus, and that's a context wherein JTMS makes more sense. Teferi isn't as good when the purpose is to take an aggressive slant to translate it into harder control elements (you probably don't want Myth to hit your hand after the midgame). As a card JTMS is more about making a synergy-based plan (i.e. combo) look like control. Myth Realized isn't pure draw-go, but it certainly is more true to that style than a deck like Counterbalance combo (i.e. miracles). A Myth list is still looking for JTMS as a way to avoid getting stuck with uncontrolling/situationally proactive elements, ignoring its dubious threat level under a Standstill. If the opponent isn't gonna crack it until they have 7, you're going to reach the point of discarding sooner. If you're going to fix the board with the -1 under Standstill, the odds are that was an etb value creature anyways. If you tick up for the win you either win or have very little to show for it if they kill it.

    -------

    More paper results:
    We only had nine for saturday's legacy which moved it from 4 rounds to three. Decks were Shardless, Grixis Delver, Leo Prison (czech without red but adding in Depths combo, Loam/Crop Rot/a few other utility lands), Elves, Punishing TITI, B/R Reanimonster, R/G Lands, a deck I can't remember, and UW Standstill. Low turnout today, probably due to the city's yearly festival/parade which takes place a few blocks away. Shardless went 3-0, I finished 2-1.
    R1 vs Punishing TITI: takes me about three turns to figure out what opponent is on (Turn one Strand->Volc, cantrip. Turn 2 Grove pass. Turn 3 Niv Magus which reveals the deck isn't Thieves and I know I'm up against lots of maindeck Fluster). Win first two games where white cards kill his threats or eat blue countermagic meaning any plan with my blue cards really isn't contested as long as I don't play into P-Fire and postboard Blasts. Game 2 was more heavily decided by RiP which completely shuts down their deck.
    R2 vs Shardless: game 1 a Terminus will tag two creatures and Standstill goes up which effectively ends this game, though it will go on for like 15-20min. Games 2 and 3 are lost, but I was drawing lands like a champ - a rather ineffective way to stop a Goyf. I still think this is a pretty overwhelmingly favorable matchup both pre/post-board, particularly because they have to leave Decay in, but I just didn't see enough white cards.
    R3 vs Leo Prisoon: game 1 Azcanta takes over to the point that I'm letting Crop Rot resolve to make the 20/20 which runs into Blessed Alliance; I take the most conservative lines with my Snapcasters and eventually a Mentor is drawn while nothing of consequence is resolving on the other side of the table. Game 2 is a little annoying where opponent has a nut draw, but I can't concede because if I topdeck a Terminus over the course of 4 turns I'd probably win. Game 3 opponent concedes with only Depths on board to Mentor, Azcanta, and a monk having been hit by 2 Wasteland and StP on DRS.

    So the deck is 5-1 right now, but it's also only been up against different presentations of the "loses to Tundra" family of decks. It'll take a while to get more info as I won't be able to play in next week's 3-rounder nor our saturday 1k (Time Vault in Portland, for those wishing to come down from Seattle). I don't play online, but hope to get some testing in at some point vs different strategies in the future. Feeding this back into your question about Wasteland, these past three rounds had Grove, Tar Pit, and Tar Pit/Depths...so it's been amazing, but against the general field I think the theory is still solid. There's been a lot of Thoughtseize the planeswalker, but I'm not identifying many instances of "I wish this was JTMS" as I've been playing. I did make one change to the deck for this event and that was cutting a Factory for Noxious Revival.
    Last edited by Fox; 06-03-2018 at 06:57 AM.

  10. #5270
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Well things lined up this week for me so I was able to get in legacy on both thursday and saturday, even got a fifth round in on saturday since it was part of our store's open qualifier.
    Thurs: 2-0-1
    -R1 vs Eureka Tell: opponent on the play goes Petal, Ponder [no shuffle], pass. I respond with Island -> Portent targeting them, leave Eureka over Eureka over Show and Tell. Their next turn is Petal, Petal, City, Eureka and it resolves. They put in Omniscience and I dump in land, Standstill, and Teferi. I let them draw the two redundant combo pieces before the Teferi -3, and this one is over. They win the next game by doing their thing without having anything to cast with Omni in play, the turn before they would lose to Mentor (dumped in off SnT) they topdeck Grisel naturally and will go on to win via Emmy. Game three their mana comes under attack by Wasteland and I strip all their blue cards by directing white cards at Carpet of Flowers (the 4th effect gets them); at this point any wincon ends the game and I present one.
    -R2 vs modern-ported Tezz Bridgewalker Thopter/Sword affinity lands with Chalice (it was a pile of things without much of a coherent plan, and none of the Cranial Plating & dudes plan): game one I don't fight over the Chalice on 1, nor the Bridge...counter the Tezz, resolve Mentor, and Teferi -3 on Bridge. Game 2 they get Powder Keg'd to oblivion [2 mana Rain of Salt and kill your Opal] and don't survive long enough to get hit by Serenity as well.
    -R3 vs EsperBlade (no Leovold, unsure about a Savannah or Trop or Bayou): we draw intentionally because I have to go to work but play a game for fun; it's a pretty one-sided loss for me as I draw nothing after opponent resolves JTMS on turn 3 through Counterspell. This would probably be a reasonable matchup for me given opponent's mana base (which included Wastelands) and his maindecking Counterspell; not terribly hard to cut them off UU.
    -Metagame best as I can recall: UWr CB miracles, Mono-U Martyr (the forecast one), Modern Tezz port, Leo Prison (read previous post for explanation), BUG Delver x2, Opposition Elves, Eureka Tell, Sneak and Show, EsperBlade, DnT, Turbo Moon deck [probably??], and 4 unknowns.

    Sat: 4-1
    -R1 vs DnT: they don't find Vial in either game and lose game one to removal into Terminus into Mentor (they also had to crack a Standstill and Teferi was becoming another insurmountable problem near the end). In game two their first play is turn 2 Thalia which eats StP, they fail to make land drop #3 and are immediately targeted by Portent which buries Horizon Canopy under Revoker and Thalia #2, and then I Waste them down to 1 mana; I have plenty of time to get to Teferi and they concede to 8 loyalty and revealing Brainstorm in hand vs three tapped lands and a summoning sick Recruiter.
    -R2 vs Big Eldrazi (no Volt. Key variant): game one Wasteland and permission slow them down enough for Mentor to close the game out. Game two I have B2B in the opener and can't find any basics, by the time I can deploy it they tutor up Ulamog and have enough untapped mana to also cast it, I concede to Emmy tutor. Game three is a flurry of Wastelands, permission, and Disenchants; they are locked down to two mana for most of the game and Mentor wins on turn 5 of extra turns.
    -R3 vs strange Grixis Delver (Tombstalker and Stifle): Game one their threats get taken out and they're cracking Standstills into an eventual loss. Game 2 I can't play around two Stifle even with Cspell backup on one and the game ends quickly. Game 3 they get whittled down by white cards and Factory beats and lose the game to a single monk token hitting for one over several turns while a Teferi was ticking up. Many TNNs were dealt with in game three iirc, never able to land a hit through CJ/Terminus/Blessed Alliance.
    -R4 vs Grixis Delver: lose game one to triple Delver opener, unable to find a Terminus which probably would win on the spot if it resolved. Game two comes along and I stabilize vs the creature side of the board, but fail to draw any outs or cantrips (2 Teferi, 2 CJ still in deck) vs the Last Hope that's been ticking up; her ult ends the game. This opponent will go on to beat DnT in the 4-0 bracket, so big congrats to them on the event!
    -R5 vs Czech Pile: game one opponent is forced to crack two Standstills over the course of the game as he's trying unsuccessfully to kill Factory; he has a JTMS for a while between those Standstills but all the bonus cards are getting fed into the Factory abyss; once JTMS finally falls he scoops to Teferi. Game two he's on a JTMS for ~12 turns brainstorming away vs my Azcanta, while my lock comes in - I RiP the fixing away from DRS, Waste the two Trops and he's out of green for good...Humility comes down and he can't get my life total down low enough to where I need to animate Factories into the removal he's been sitting on forever. The first CJ eats both of his Flusters, then the Terminus 3-for-1s, CJ #2 kills the JTMS, and then Teferi comes down with double Cspell protection and it's over (plan of tick up, nuke the mana, and then beat with the Factories).
    -Metagame: Grixis Delver x3, Grixis Delver using Stifle & Tombstalker x1, DnT x3, Czech Pile x2, Maverick x1, Leo Prison x1, Big Eldrazi x1, Steel Stompy x1, Sneak & Show x1....there was also a Grixis Delver (I think in addition to the other 4) which was using Bomat Courier b/c he had a message to deliver, also there was Goblins where I look over and they play a sorcery that makes 2x 1/1 gobbos and the next thing I hear is Goblin Bomb (so kitchen table goblins). I'm missing about 2 decks, and there is a chance that there were only 2 copies of normal Grixis Delver.

    11-2-1 (the intentional draw) currently, but still haven't run into Lands, ANT, Elves, UWx control, and a few other archetypes but the deck seems to be functioning as intended with both Teferi and Wasteland. None of my matchups thus far have felt unfavorable in the abstract, though there has been a fair bit of jank.

    Edit: metagame filled in for 5 rounder.
    Last edited by Fox; 06-12-2018 at 11:04 AM.

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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Two Thursdays ago legacy failed to fire with only 7 showing up, so games were fairly casual. Saturday barely fired with 9 showing up and I went 0-2 drop losing to ANT and then R/G lands; three of those four games were definitely winnable on my end, but too hard to play correctly with only like 3 hours of sleep.

    Tonight we had 18 show up for our three rounder. Meta included DnT, Sneak & Show, ANT, Czech x2, RUG Delver, Grixis Delver, Aluren, NicFit, BUG control (i.e. Czech without red), Merfolk, quite a few unknowns, and then myself and a friend playing a similar 74 cards on UW Landstill.

    R1 vs Czech: they win game one after a number of Hymns terminating in enough burn from K-Comms. G2 I'm on the play vs their mull to 6, their opener is Trop -> DRS; I cast StP on their EoT, untap and play Standstill to which opponent concedes. G3 RiP shreds any value the three SCMs he found could have assembled, beatdown plan of 3x SCM + 1x Strix meets Teferi resolution (no red mana for REB in hand on his side), then Portent sets up Terminus and Teferi untaps 2 lands; opponent loses board in upkeep [kills Teferi] and then topdecks Fluster. They concede next turn to Mentor into Azcanta. Protect your Azcantas in this matchup and it's pretty hard to lose; Mentor reliably creates fights they have to engage in and will generally cost them around 3 cards to clean up, after which point their deck collapses if you can turn off the Snapcaster value engine.

    R2 vs RUG Delver aka Hootie and the ProFish (no Goose): in games one and two Stifle plays little role and I'm able to establish basic land presence; it's just kill spells into Standstill into anything wins both games. Really quite nice in this matchup to be able to sit back and let Sylvan Library resolve just to be outclassed by Standstill, saving interaction for cards that matter.

    R3 vs BUG Control: game one opponent will crack 4 Standstills during a protracted fight between my Karakas and his Leovold, where despite him having Wasteland he can't touch Karakas b/c I'll flip Azcanta the moment he does. Game 2 will go to time where opponent has losing board state of Liliana-otV, DRS, SCM vs my 7 life and Teferi, Mentor, monk token, and flipped Azcanta. I won game 1 so once time is called opponent just calls for a draw and this match ends as a 1-0-1 win.

    This deck's record goes to 14-4-1. My friend ended up going 2-1 tonight as well; the only different card in our lists was his Baneslayer Angel which was in place of a Surgical. He lost first round to Grixis Delver and I'm told he crushed ANT with the singleton Noxious Revival cutting threshold on a Cabal Ritual, then using Snapcaster to recast the Noxious forcing them to waste a second draw on topdecking a land. His third round was a win over Merfolk.

    ----

    Saturday legacy barely fired with 8 players, so only a three rounder. Meta was JunkBlade, B/R Reanimator, Grixis Delver, JunkBlade w/ some blue (Atraxa and Leovold), UWr miracles, Czech x2, and myself.

    R1 vs JunkBlade + Blue: run out of white cards and nearly die to Atraxa and Lilly-otV (loyalty counters proliferate), at one life I'm able to stabilize against ~30 life opponent with Sylvan Library; Mentor goes out of control and last attack I make is able to kill through Bskull gaining 6 (had SoFI equipped). Game 2 opponent gets hit by an early Terminus and loses Arbor + DRS and can't recover before we get to the Standstill cracked into Teferi portion of the game.
    R2 vs Grixis Delver: opponent wins the die roll and does the Delver thing while dodging Terminus. Game 2 they run into white cards including a funny board state where they have Gurmag/DRS/Delver x2 vs double Mentor and they have to counter a Terminus - the monks from that help to overrun opponent, but they also couldn't have recovered from losing four threats. Game 3 I don't draw enough white cards, and opponent takes it down 2-1.
    R3 vs B/R Reanimator: I'm on the play but no FoW vs Chancellor reveal -> turn 1 Sire and die. Game 2 controlling elements stop opponent while Factories go to work. Game 3 I have to FoW an Unmask to protect Surgical, opponent deploys Pack Rat. Next turn I deploy Factory and opponent gets a hit in for 2 (activate Pack Rat with Petal, dropping him to 2 lands); after this we stare at eachother for a few turns since opponent can't beat 3/3 Factory defense. Opponent eventually goes for a Thoughtseize and I respond with Brainstorm; they take Mentor and Reanimate, I untap and Terminus. Opponent concedes to a revealed hand of 7 cards that keeps them from going off before Factory would close out the game.

    Overall record moves to 16-5-1.
    Last edited by Fox; 06-24-2018 at 09:44 AM.

  12. #5272
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Played Landstill last night at my Monday weekly and 3-0'd, Terminus doing its thing against 2 creature decks, and beating Aluren through a combination of countermagic and a lot of Swords + Standstill. Helps that I pilot Aluren quite often myself. I sided in Humility in every matchup and it won me every game I drew it. I was also happy with Mentor, previously playing a lot of Myth Realized off and on and this time playing 0 Myths and using that space for more spells and less pressure. I basically just had 2 Mentor, 3 Snap, 2 Jace and 4 Factories.

    I'm curious about what just popped up in the weekly challenge at #16. https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2018-06-25

    I've never seen a lot of these choices, especially all thrown together at once.

  13. #5273
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @ashent looks like the deck you referenced is up on mtgtop8 now where it's easier to find (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19507&d=324693).

    If you look at some recent UW Standstill ideas from vintage: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19417&d=323769&f=VI.

    The deck from the challenge looks a little strange, adding Jace-AoT +1 to Humility seems like overkill with 3 Factory and 2 Myth (are people really attacking into you at this point in a game?)...shouldn't Jace-AoT just be a Karn to get a -2 effect to become a mildly less powerful +1? It seems like it might be a little difficult to win against DnT with so many payoff cards and prison elements coming in as 3-4cmc sorcery speed non-creature spells. Crucible and Emrakul are a bit more reminiscent of vintage builds, as is Verdict x2, and Humility maindeck (whereas it would Moat there). I'm skeptical of Myth Realized, but I'm sure the card draws Abrupt Decay away from Crucible and Azcanta in that list. It looks like the deck probably struggles to transition to planeswalker control portion of the game, helping to explain Jace-AoT being selected for the +1 ability; but all I see happening here is Verdict -> Jace-AoT unthreatened so -2 ability -> Kcomm get back destroyed creature, shock Jace-AoT. I'm not sure that Crucible is going to work out all that well in legacy, but it would certainly be nice in a UW mirror to protect Factory from StP/Terminus by self-Wasteland; if nobody is challenging graveyards I can see how it outvalues SCM recursion...but Snapcasters are going to be meeting up with Disenchant post-board, so it's not going to be around for long.

    Concerning your list @ashent, what is your total land count with those four Factories, and are you running any amount of Wasteland? Are you seeing more success in games b/c you're not trying to play a white card on turn 1 off Tundra? Congrats on the 3-0 by the way.

  14. #5274
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Thanks for the replies-

    I know this thread is slow and it's been mostly you replying to it, so I wanted to let you know I do appreciate reading your thoughts on the archetype.

    Here's the list I ran on that Monday, as well as an Eternal Weekend Trial yesterday. I really messed up my first round and missed top 8 starting the day with a draw and then being matched up against Eldrazi Post the next round. Every time I play an extreme control list I dread seeing Eldrazi on-cast triggers.. also ran into Burn immediately after. Both of these matchups were something I would have loved to see if I had played ANT like I intended, but I really wanted to cast Standstill. I don't know if your findings are the same, but anything with Eye of Ugin is going to kill us here, and we don't have a fast enough clock to race Burn most of the time, though I did take an exciting game 1, winning at 1 life with a lethal Molten Vortex trigger on his upkeep.

    23 Lands

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Island
    2 Plains
    3 Wasteland
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Tundra

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Portent
    3 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will
    4 Terminus
    1 Council's Judgment

    1 Jace the Mindsculptor
    1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria

    4 Standstill
    2 Search for Azcanta

    2 Monastery Mentor
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    Last edited by ashent; 07-01-2018 at 05:54 AM.

  15. #5275
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Have some more results from Thurs and Sat. legacy:

    Thurs was a little inbred in about 10 decks, DnT x3, UW Landstill x2, TurboDepths, Czech Pile, Grixis Delver, Maverick, and one unknown.
    R1 vs DnT: able to keep them off the Vial plan both games and it's spot removal into Teferi into concede; maybe some Mentor in there. One sick play was stealing monarch: they cast Jailer with no targets, Port my Factory in upkeep (self animate in response) -> StP Jailer, Blessed Alliance to untap Factory and deal combat dmg to become the monarch and drop a Standstill just to be sure.
    R2 vs DnT: both games they get on the Vial + Port plan and I can't get enough Wastelands. Game 1 Brightling made an appearance and won them the game by itself (but that was really more a function of 2x Vial on three and infinite white mana over like 10 turns - it was a really weird game. The card is quite annoying but Factories are good at stopping it; the annoying part is ignoring the equipment b/c you have to kill Vials and force this guy back onto the stack (without Cavern).
    R3 vs Czech Pile: concedes to turn 2 Standstill. Game 2 and 3 are grindy, and g3 we're both on the same page about keeping in a higher density of countermagic in post-board. In both boarded games opponent is able to land Jace and I can't get Azcanta - there's more going on here, but this really boils down to 2x Azcanta (on top of Standstill) being incredibly important. Other consideration from Vintage is 4-mana Karn vs Czech; I'll be testing this out in the board as it offsets their ability to lean on REB (pulled one in a draft on Friday, the value is real!).

    Incomplete knowledge of number of players and meta. Included were 3x UWr miracles (Counterbalance combo), 1x UW Blade (B2B main, employed Stutters and Spell Queller), Goblins, Czech x2, Grixis Delver x2, one guy [probably] on his usual blend of UW miracles with UB Tezz (CB, Thopter/Sword), and just me on UW Standstill this time. Other decks were there, and we got 4 rounds.
    R1 vs Grixis Delver: Pretty quick 2-0 due to sufficient white cards to disperse the clock followed by insurmountable card advantage. Game 2 opponent was on a mull to 5 and scry'd to the top - my opening play was Portent targeting them, shuffling away TNN/Wasteland/Therapy.
    R2 vs UWr miracles: their JTMS was a secondary concern, just died to CB twice in a row (they were able to find that before I could get on a Standstill or Azcanta plan).
    R3 vs UW Blade: probably should have conceded game 1, but was an interesting 45-ish minute affair where I probably had a real shot at winning by their drawstep variance (no JTMS in play), but never really found the window to counter the Batterskull after forcing them to reset it about four times; B2B was annoying here as Factory was more than enough to take over. Game 2 they're stuck on lands and I'm Wastelanding their opening Tundras; their three basic plains can't hold back Factory and Mentor. Time runs out but there's no point for me to go into round 4 at 1-1-1 so I concede to opponent to give them a shot to cash with their [now] 2-1 record. This matchup is probably quite bad for them, especially leaving in B2B against a Teferi deck. These games reinforced why Blessed Alliance deserves a maindeck slot (TNN).
    R4 vs UWr miracles: I'm able to get on the Standstill plan while they get on the JTMS/CB plan, but Teferi resolves and an Azcanta sneaks through on my side (I Wasteland theirs); they fail to pressure Teferi and but will put lethal Entreat on board -> CJ hits CB (actually resolving, which is always shocking) -> Teferi ults, Brainstorm to kill JTMS and their untapped lands -> Brainstorm to kill 3/5 angels -> they die to me drawing cards. Game 2 the Standstill plan is working well and Teferi allows me to disappear their CB a few times before dying, but they still have JTMS on board; opponent eventually gets to a point where they can't keep CB on board b/c they chose to fight over my Azcantas, I pick a fight with Standstill and win and Factories take JTMS out. Time runs out, but they will lose by default if/when I find a Surgical for Counterbalance (though damage probably ends game before that). Incredibly annoying being reduced to playing coin-flip: the gathering any time you pick the correct spot to challenge CB.

    So 1-2 and 2-1*-1* (*the UW Blade game); composite record goes to 19-8-2. On thursday my friend on the same 74 went 2-1 again, this time beating Turbo Depths and something else. His loss was to Maverick, but after talking about the game it sounds like much of that came down to incorrectly assessing Sylvan Library as a threat vs an idea of followup Standstill - the FoW he spent here cost him a game that would have won the match. Versus Turbo it sounded like a pretty one-sided beatdown except for g2 where a Teferi was boarded out and a suspect hand (Wasteland only, Surgical as well) was kept, followed by a quick scoop to Dark Confidant.

    @ashent try going down to 22 lands by cutting a Factory and having some sort of recursive element. Crucible is what they're doing in vintage, but seems incorrect vs a format with Delver, Kcomm, and DRS - it seems even less likely to work after game 1. I'm interested to hear how your 4 Terminus approach is going vs 3/1 split with Blessed Alliance. I don't particularly like Ponder since we should be better at hitting land drops than most, I also like setting up miracle triggers on their upkeep and ignoring Leovold with Portent.

    I was thinking about another copy of Blessed Alliance in the board, but haven't run into burn yet; that little bit of lifegain (plus edict) probably makes a significant difference. Against Big Eldrazi what was going on exactly: unable to find a clock? Spyglass spam? JTMS unable to threaten them? Playing Standstill without enough pressure that they kept making land drops?

  16. #5276
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I wrote Ponder but I'm playing 0 Ponder. Sorry. They are Portents.

  17. #5277
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I was thinking about another copy of Blessed Alliance in the board, but haven't run into burn yet; that little bit of lifegain (plus edict) probably makes a significant difference. Against Big Eldrazi what was going on exactly: unable to find a clock? Spyglass spam? JTMS unable to threaten them? Playing Standstill without enough pressure that they kept making land drops?
    I admit I feel like Blessed Alliance does not at all appear to be Legacy-worthy to me, but I can't back that up with testing. Just doesn't look like it does much. I would of course have loved to have drawn one against Burn yesterday.

    Against BigEldrazi their entire plan beats ours naturally. Their deck is nothing but uncounterable game winning threats. I don't think it's actually possible to beat them here without a Back to Basics or recurring Wasteland plan. I could see occasions where you could get there against them with a turn 3 Mentor backed up by nothing but pressure and them having a slow start, but typically the game is Cloudpost, Cloudpost + mana rock, Cloudpost + Thought Knot or something, then Eye of Ugin into Eldrazis with all on-cast triggers where it doesn't matter if you counter them or not. They just begin casting Emrakul or Kozilek every turn.

    I'm not that concerned with this kind of matchup, it's just funny that I ran into it with the only deck I feel it really has a perfect plan for.

  18. #5278

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Wow, DRS and Gitaxian Probe are gone at the same time.

    So it's time for us to become a pretty competitive deck again?

  19. #5279

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Well i was running esper with 4drs so back to the drawing board I guess.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  20. #5280
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Restarting the stats again post-Probe/DRS ban. Four round event meta consists of UWRb miracles (one Sea, 2 SB Thoughtseize, 1 Notion Thief) x1, RUG Delver x2, Team America x1, BUG Thresh x1, Turbo Depths x1, UR Delver x1, Merfolk x1, DnT x2, EsperBlade shenanigans (Academy Ruins) x1, EsperBlade x1.

    R1 vs miracles 0-2. Counterbalance oracle: UU win the game. I'm going to toss out all games against Counterbalance combo because UW can't beat that card without running it. A separate tally will be kept, but there's little point pretending any card not called CB competes.
    R2 vs BUG Thresh: 2-0. Able to play around Stifle and Daze both games and hit enough white cards to 'duress' blue out of their hand while controlling the board; eventual win via unchallenged blue cards (Standstill/Teferi/Azcanta mix).
    R3 vs Team America: 1-2. Same concept as previous game. Both mull game 1 but they get there. Win mull to 6 game 2. Lose mull to 6 game 3. Favorable matchup due to their lack of burn but too many mana-screw mulls; close games though.
    R4 vs EsperBlade: 2-0: Game 1 they technically lose to Mentor, but Teferi/Azcanta/Standstill are all on board at same time. Game 2 opponent can't find Fetchlands and tap down 3 duals for TNN to which I respond with B2B; Mentor outraces and Portent target them puts game way out of reach. Their deck no longer has DRS and doesn't really put down credible threats until 3 mana; very easy to Standstill once and win off the back of the draw 3 if you ever StP the SFM. Opponent got a little ticked off game 1 because I didn't play for the Mentor win (which would have been quicker), but there really wasn't anywhere near enough pressure to abandon a completely safe win by default (outdraw them 4:1 each turn, not counting Standstills) while they were stuck on land topdecks, Batterskull bouncing/recast, and Lilly-otV.

    Overall record 2-1. Counterbalance tally: 0-1. I've been happy with cutting down to 1x Fluster in the board. Will probably cut another card from board to get Blessed Alliance #2 (8-9 copies of TNN over last three rounds) and simultaneously achieve better positioning vs Burn and Goose.

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