[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[mossivo1986]

Not when, form a goblin-zoo meta which is nuts for landstill, pikula rock eva green and pox becomeds suddendly the 55% of the meta (talking about 50+ people)... here path to exile is of no use... and those Mu's are not that easy...

Ok first you mentioned Ichorid and Merfolk, now your taking me to goblin, zoo, and pox.

I need to specify what your wants and current list is. You will need to PM me again. When you pm me tell me by which percent your meta "you say" would be what.

Ex.
30% gobos
10% ichorid
70% merfok

ect. ect.

I need more clarification before I can understand what your fully saying.

[Misplayer]

Played a small local event last night with a UWg list. I ran the standard 10x10x10 config with 2 Elspeth, 2 Relic, E Tutor, Crucible, Humility (although I count this as part of the removal suite) rounding out the utility slots. Splashed one Tropical Island to set EE to 3 and play Grip out of the board.

I went 2-1, crushing Progenitus Thresh Variant w/Standstill and Meathooks, but I was worked over pretty hard by Nassif's GP list. Counterbalance rocked me hard both games. I don't understand how anyone thinks they can "play around it" with Landstill. Now I should note that my opponent caught some good breaks: Game 1 I go for Elspeth with 1 mana up for Daze and Force backup. He has 3 cards in hand. He Dazes, I pay, he Dazes, I Force, he Dazes. He also flipped for 3, 4, and 5 off CB. Game 2 he opens with Top, Bob, CB, Goyf (Spell Snared), Trygon with Force backup for my EE. He later shows me that he was holding back 2 Bob and 2 Goyf in hand.

Anyway, under CB/Top here's the cards in your deck that are basically dead when you draw them: Top, Brainstorm, Standstill, Counterspell, Spell Snare, Swords. So under CB/Top you're already down to about 1/3-1/2 of your non-land cards that are effective. If your opponent can find and float a 4cc, forget about it. Good players also save Force for relevant spells, which are about 3 cards: Elspeth, Humility and EE. I'm considering cutting Relics for Grips and adding a 2nd Trop just because CB is such a problem. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I don't understand how any Landstill list that's not running Vindicate can expect to win under CB/Top against a competent player. Someone help me out here.

[3duece]

Were you not running decree and mishra's factory? Those are your mvps in that match.

[Misplayer]

Factories were answered by Shackles game 1, I saw none game 2 (he had Shackles again anyway). I don't run Decree, but he had Plague on soldier to shut off Elspeth game 2. It was a total blowout.

[rockout]

He had Plague on soldier to shut off Elspeth game 2. It was a total blowout.

That's pretty savage. I've seen plague on soldier once in my year or more of playing landstill and ended up drawing because I failed at getting rid of the plague. Granted, anything running blue that isn't combo is something we should break our foots off in their... Whether they run cb, tempo based, or have shackles with other stuff, we should have really good match ups there its just sometimes they god draw when you have a slow hand and we end up playing catch up all game.

[Maxe]

how is ur Sideboard with cbalnce looks like with wishstill?

[mossivo1986]

Factories were answered by Shackles game 1, I saw none game 2 (he had Shackles again anyway). I don't run Decree, but he had Plague on soldier to shut off Elspeth game 2. It was a total blowout.

The only cards you care about in nassif's model are the following in this order:

1. Counterbalance
2. BOB
3. Force of will

If you can stop these 3 then you win. Goyf is answered by relic/swords/ee/wrath/ wish for path ect. ect. The main key here is spell snare is for only balance and bob, anything else and you mine as well just take the damage from the goyf or figure it out. EP should have been shut off by academy ruins ee recrursion. See heres how that matchup goes. They try to cast some neat 2cc shit, you get rid of it. They try to top some more into play, you answer bob #3 and balance #2. Once you reach this stage in the game you are only looking for ee +academy ruins. That lock wins this matchup hands down.

[Misplayer]

It's all good when you can Spell Snare a Counterbalance, but once that thing hits play it's an uphill battle unless you've already established an advantageous board position (i.e. Elspeth) or you're well into the late-game. He beat me for 4 a turn with Bob and Trygon and I couldn't answer either one.

In a battle of good players (meaning players who can identify relevant spells that should be countered), I think it really comes down to who has Force backup. If I resolve EE game 2 I likely stabilize before he draws 53 cards off Bob. If he doesn't have triple Daze game 1 Elspeth likely gets there. Thanks for the affirmation that this isn't a terrible matchup that deserves hate-slots, but I am going up to 4 Spell Snare (as has been suggested before)

[mossivo1986]

It's all good when you can Spell Snare a Counterbalance, but once that thing hits play it's an uphill battle unless you've already established an advantageous board position (i.e. Elspeth) or you're well into the late-game. He beat me for 4 a turn with Bob and Trygon and I couldn't answer either one.

In a battle of good players (meaning players who can identify relevant spells that should be countered), I think it really comes down to who has Force backup. If I resolve EE game 2 I likely stabilize before he draws 53 cards off Bob. If he doesn't have triple Daze game 1 Elspeth likely gets there. Thanks for the affirmation that this isn't a terrible matchup that deserves hate-slots, but I am going up to 4 Spell Snare (as has been suggested before)

I hear 4 spell snare is the way to go.

... Irony is awesome.

[Citrus-God]

Factories were answered by Shackles game 1, I saw none game 2 (he had Shackles again anyway). I don't run Decree, but he had Plague on soldier to shut off Elspeth game 2. It was a total blowout.

If you had Decrees, you could have just hardcast DoJ for Angel tokens.

[mossivo1986]

If you had Decrees, you could have just hardcast DoJ for Angel tokens.

He has a point. Angel tokens if you play the way I told you should be the right approach. That or just prolonging elspeth or jace or smoking them with mishra, vendillion is always fun.

[3duece]

I've also found vindicate to be great against cb. People talk alot about how counterbalance decks hit 3cc consistently now but it's bullshit. It's usually either snake, war monk or vindicate itself, rarely more than four cards.

[rockout]

I've also found vindicate to be great against cb.

Plus EE.

[Charlatan]

I was wondering about intuition in Landstill's MD...

Nowadays, landstill's engine works with EE, academy ruin and crucible/loam...

wwhy not cut FoF and add intuition?

I know that topdeck FoF in the late game is great...

or even balance FoF with intuition...

[mossivo1986]

I was wondering about intuition in Landstill's MD...

Nowadays, landstill's engine works with EE, academy ruin and crucible/loam...

wwhy not cut FoF and add intuition?

I know that topdeck FoF in the late game is great...

or even balance FoF with intuition...

Ive toyed with playing a dedicated green splash before, seems good but i've never been totally sold on it.

- Konsultant

Also note that everyone of the regulars here has tested some sort of a combination of green and it is very difficult to fit into todays metagame without hozing some of your matchups. In alot of cases your just better of running mystical tutor.

[Shawn]

I was wondering about intuition in Landstill's MD...

I tried a UWg list and it was really good against mid-range decks like Survival and Loam. A lot of decks have huge problems with EE+Ruins game one, and I was playing a basic forest so I could just bring back Ruins whenever I wanted against Aggro Loam due to my own LFTL. Also, many Counterbalance thresh lists are cold to Ruins+EE game one. Intuition is extremely clunky, however, and the list had problems with fast aggro. Also, Intuition is susceptible to graveyard hate post board which is super annoying.

Tolaria West is another option. It can't be countered, (except for Stifle) and allows for a B splash instead of G. You can run a pair of Ruins for Intuition piles in a non-green splash, but that only allows for an EE, Ruins, Ruins pile or a Crucible, Ruins, Ruins pile instead of Loam, Ruins, EE or Loam, Wasteland/Dust Bowl, Ruins. Often when I was playing the UWg list, I found myself finding half of a lock piece when I had the other in my hand, so Tolaria West would've done essential the same thing.

[mossivo1986]

I tried a UWg list and it was really good against mid-range decks like Survival and Loam. A lot of decks have huge problems with EE+Ruins game one, and I was playing a basic forest so I could just bring back Ruins whenever I wanted against Aggro Loam due to my own LFTL. Also, many Counterbalance thresh lists are cold to Ruins+EE game one. Intuition is extremely clunky, however, and the list had problems with fast aggro. Also, Intuition is susceptible to graveyard hate post board which is super annoying.

Tolaria West is another option. It can't be countered, (except for Stifle) and allows for a B splash instead of G. You can run a pair of Ruins for Intuition piles in a non-green splash, but that only allows for an EE, Ruins, Ruins pile or a Crucible, Ruins, Ruins pile instead of Loam, Ruins, EE or Loam, Wasteland/Dust Bowl, Ruins. Often when I was playing the UWg list, I found myself finding half of a lock piece when I had the other in my hand, so Tolaria West would've done essential the same thing.

Ew just no.

You need to be running Green splash if you run intuition IF. But if your going this route mystical tutor is much more consistent as I was saying before. RuinsX2 is deffinately not the way to go. Yes i've tested it, and its just terrible.

[Shawn]

I wasn't recommending it, I was just saying it is possible. Even with the green splash I wouldn't run Intuition before any of these cards: Fact or Fiction, Top, Cunning Wish, or Ponder.

[3duece]

The thing about the green splash and intuition in landstill is that you start playing engines that make standstill bad. If you want to run intuition with an academy/loam/explosives package then you also want etched oracle because it's ridiculous. And then you want tarmogoyf because you run out of ways to protect yourself while you set the shit up. Then you want stronghold and eternal witness because an intuition pile with them and any other card is also ridiculous. And then you want counterbalance because all your shit costs one and two.

And then you belong in the ITF thread.

[rockout]

And then you find out that ITF blows.