@ Gustha and NQN: I don't really mind the reasoning behind running snares over CS'es but IMO writing posts that just state 'run snare, it's good' isn't really helping this thread.
In my opinion, this is one of the best threads in the dtb forum, because people have been respectfully arguing with eachother about a deck and a lot of great suggestions and improvements have been made, as compared to (for example) the goblins thread where people just post their list and say 'card X is good you guys should try it' and nobody even tries to discuss anything. Would be a shame to watch it go down the crapper.
Also, this is the last offtopic post by me concerning this little peeve of mine (for now), so let's leave it at that since I reckon most people would agree.
Hello friend.
Hey guys, I think you should take out Counterspells and run spell snare. They're good cause I said so, so do it!
Honestly, this deck isn't a tempo deck. Tempo Thresh Benifits from SS since it can deny the opponent mana and force them to cast cheaper stuff. Landstill is slower and will head into late game. Having hard counters in the late game is more important and also a better top deck. Daze and Spell Snare tend to get worse as the game goes on and are counter-intuitive to landstills gameplan. Also, Landstill can afford to leave mana open and simply attack with man lands.
Simply because I'd just finished to explain why snare is the best anti-Tempo card. It's not that if tempo thresh does run SSnare, than this mean SSnare can be only used with succedd in tempo decks. It can be used as well in landstill against all decks. Usually landstill used life points as a resource to spend in early game. Then this resource has become more and more difficult to spend (you know tarmo and friends...).
The early game is the stage of game where the most things you would avoid from touching ground try to resolve, and passing almost inviolated that stage of game is the key of landstill success. Spell snare is the card that lets you pass these stage without losing (or little losing) your life points, reserve you can spend later on in the game (maximizing resources while reducing the costs, it's the same principle over and over...). And they don't become useless as long as you enter the midgame, just because aggro and combo, or noncontrol decks, tend to choose the best card (in terms of cost/effect ratio), and those cards usually float around the 1-3 cc. I don't want to recall all the things I've said (and not only me, I'm just a poor man) about spell snare, but please don't state that a card is bad for landstill just because it's good for a tempo deck.
Than just don't play fetch, brainstorm, force, wasteland and dual lands. I hear they're pretty good in tempo thresh.
Originally Posted by mossivo1986Originally Posted by rockout
I really apologize for the harshness, but that comment still seems to me against all logic after dozens and dozens of pages on spell snare, where objection like the one you pose have been more than once confuted. Your position may seem good to you and you are free to believe what you want, but sorry you can't claim this is a strong objection to the use of spell snare in landstill, it's not an objection at all (no harshness here, really).
Originally Posted by mossivo1986Originally Posted by rockout
I don't think I claimed it to be a strong objection, but that's moot anyways.
I read some of your comments on the justification for SS (anti-tempo to make it to the late game) and they are sound, but at what cost? What are you taking out to make room for Spell Snare? Won't SS hurt our late game? (Where landstill is suppose to shine)
You got something wrong.I don't think I claimed it to be a strong objection, but that's moot anyways.
I read some of your comments on the justification for SS (anti-tempo to make it to the late game) and they are sound, but at what cost? What are you taking out to make room for Spell Snare? Won't SS hurt our late game? (Where landstill is suppose to shine)
SS is played in Canadian because of its ability to generate tempo but more for being a strong disruptive spell all the time.
Canadian is first of a disruption deck, although it can play the role of the tempodeck just as good.
Even if you say that CS is better in the mid- and lategame for landstill its just half of the truth.
Don't forget that Legacy consists mostly of 1CC and 2CC spells and that Spell Snare answers the most dangerous of them (Goyf and CB).
€dit: Spelling - man im tired.
I'm using 3 Spell Snare at the moment but could see myself going back up to 4. There are just so many 2nd turn plays that need to be taken care of.
And I did end up going up to 24 lands. I had to take out a Top but I still have 2 in the deck which seems to be fine. I'm finding it early enough and not running into multiples when they could be something else.
Edit: After more testing, I'm convinced that Deadguy Ale (B/W) is one of our hardest, if not our hardest matchup. The discard and land destruction is just too much to deal with most of the time.
Last edited by ultimoman; 06-10-2009 at 10:30 PM.
I absolutely agree. I played against it for a couple of hours saturday and is a dreadful match (and I run 4 md snare). A major problem is not much of the sideboard does anything against it (I brought in halo to name hymn and then thoughtseize). The match made me want crucible back in the 75 somewhere.
I'm using 3 SS maindeck, 24 lands, and a Crucible and I'm still having trouble. Rarely do I even get to 3 lands to be able to cast it if I even find it. I don't know what I'd take out for a 4th SS (I only use 2 Counterspell already), but the answer may be in sideboarding instead.
A question to fellow WishStill users:
Against aggro, do you sb all Paths in, or leave one in the sb for Wish? I do the latter, but I wanted other's opinion since I just started playing Landstill recently.
I only have two path in the sideboard, but yes, usually I side 1 in (or sometimes both and Wish for something else)
@3duece, Misplayer, rockout
Yeah, my deck is mostly localized against aggro.
I don't have any Elspeths (she's a tough lady to find), and generally speaking, she doesn't last very long. I have been looking into acquiring a pair though.
@Misplayer, gustha
I'm going to have to agree with Misplayer. I generally assemble U+U/W then UU+W+U/W. I need a lot more blue than I need white most of the time, but then again, I run 11 permission spells with 6 1cc white one-for-ones.
@gustha
Concerning Leibniz. I just thought Candide was hilarious. xD
@3duece, ultimoman
What change to factories?
EDIT: Ohhh.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...ly/feature/42a
1. LOL. I always thought this new rule was the way it was supposed to be done! Even at Regionals. xDDD
2A. I don't like this one. In fact, if I were a noob, I might confuse this with combat. BUT LOOK AT GLACIAL FORTRESS! =DDD
2B. I guess this makes sense. But it would be confusing for noobs that encounter a card like Standstill, since it triggers when a player PLAYS a spell. Now it's CAST?
2C. Oh no. This is BURY all over again.
2D. Finally, they're distinguishing between End of Turn and Beginning of End Step.
3A. Wow. This is a pretty big change. We can't float from step to step now?
3B. WOW?
4. Hahaha... I didn't know this one.
5. WOW. This is really going to hurt aggro. But it makes sense. The LIFO stack business was confusing to me when I started playing... in second grade. =P
Anyhow, it won't affect Mishra's Factory. You can always tap it for the +1/+1 BEFORE damage is assigned/dealt.
@Ectoplasm, DragoFireheart
Spell Snare is a maindeck 3-4-of. This is because it can easily make up for the first two turns of relative instability, especially if you draw. They drop a land, you drop a land, they play a 2cc spell, say, Tarmogoyf or Hymn to Tourach, you Spell Snare it. Not hard to follow, eh?
But it does not replace Counterspell, which is a vital card when Landstill matures in the late game.
Last edited by Taishaku; 06-11-2009 at 05:10 PM.
I never once said I didn't like spellsnare, I said I didn't like the way people stated things as fact without any arguementation and I used spellsnare as an example. I know it's good.
Any tips on playing a vindicate model against Rock with LftL, besides 'board in relics', 'deck them with standstill' or 'run cunning wish'? This deck seems to outlast me completely and utterly and I have no lategame while they do whatever they want. Liliana seems tempting but that's post-SB
Hello friend.
He's talking about a change to the way combat damage operates, effective July 11. You will no longer be able to respond to damage on the stack. You won't be able to, for example, attack with a Qasili Pride-mage, have it do 3 damage to creature, and then sacrifice it to destroy an artifact. He's mistaken though. You can still animate, block, and tap a factory to make it a 3/3.
@ Ectoplasm:
It mostly comes down to luck. Your draw needs to beat their draw, and their draw is repetitive. I find fact or fictions it effectively puts you two "loams" ahead of them. I've actually gotten into the habit of countering the loams: it gives you time to build to seven mana and play E. Dragon (the builds I've seen have a tough time removing it (they usually have to devastating dreams for five), although if I were them I'd play terminate, maelstrom pulse, putrefy, so maybe that's just the people in my area. I also really enjoy standstill here, and run four.
Oh, one other thing. KILL BOB. Use wrath, EE, Swords, cycle decree, anything, but them getting that second draw is BRUTAL.
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