//Edit:
What would you say about following changes in Nicolai Ruckels list?
- 1 Decree of Justice
- 1 Cunning Wish
- 1 Wrath of God
- 1 Island
+ 2 Fact or Fiction
+ 1 Nevinyrral's Disk
+ 1 Tundra
In DIF's list this changes
- 1 Eternal Dragon
- 1 Decree of Justice
- 1 Mishras Factory
+ 1 Plains
+ 1 Wasteland
+ 1 Crucible of Worlds
or maybe play only 2 plains and also 2 Dragons?
Then its this list
// Lands (24)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Plains
3 Island
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Wasteland
// Winconditions (4)
1 Eternal Dragon
2 Decree of Justice
1 Crucible of Worlds
// Card Advantage (12)
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Cunning Wish
2 Fact or Fiction
// Permission (8)
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
// Removal (12)
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Wrath of God
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Humility
3 Engineered Explosives
By Siding out Standstills for Mages you removed the useless Stills for 2/2 beaters. most of the times the Mage can name handy stuff. for instance if you have a crucible out and they dont. or if you have more factorys on board you can name StP.
Anyways my point is that he sided the mages in not because they are good in the mirror, but because they are better then standstills.
Your list is +1 land +1 CoW -1 DoJ -1 Dragon from DIF´s list. If you feel better with those changes, play it.
There is one more question
Should i prefer to play one Eternal Dragon over one plains? Or is it too much if i play crucible/fetchies?
I know i annoy you...
Why is your list better than Nicolai's or DIF's list? What does your testing tell you about your questions?
Plains/Eternal Dragon:
It´s very differnt sometimes you need an addional plains/land(i cant say it better in english...) and sometimes u want a finisher...
I dont to come to a decision, i will play the Eternal Dragon because he is a big guy, although he isnt a land drop. Mondy i can tell your more, then i will test him on a big tournament(dülmen in germany).
Actually, you would much rather have Eternal Dragon over the 3rd Plains to be honest. Eternal Dragon is an amazing finisher, simply put. I mean, if you run the 2nd Dragon over the third Plains, the only difference in the mana base between you and DIF is the 4th Factory and the Wasteland.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Eternal Dragon has such poor synergy with humility, I just don't see him being worth it when I'd usually rather have humility in play.
4Tundra
2Underground Sea
1Scrubland
2Polluted Delta
4Flooded Strand
4Mishra's Factory
3Plains
2Island
1Academy Ruins
1Tolaria West
1Wasteland
4Counterspell
4Force of Will
4Brainstorm
4Standstill
2Fact or Fiction
4Swords to Plowshares
3Wrath of God
3Decree of Justice
2Humility
4Engineered Explosives
1Crucible of Worlds
Eternal Dragon has amazing synergy with land drops, however. He finds a Tundra when you need more blue, he finds basics when you're getting hit by wastelands and moon effects, and he makes sure you do the purpose of the deck: hit land drops. He also operates under a standstill, produces CA in the lategame, and is a win condition that is hard to deal with. Yes, he sucks when you have humility out. Then again, you have humility out. It really doesn't matter anymore.
In the mirror, you can recur him to make extra land drops. I've done this before and it really does smooth out your future draws since you're thinning your deck by one land a turn. I especially like doing this with a Humility in play just to thin my deck so I can find DoJ more efficiently.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Yesterday I played on a small 4-round tournament and in one situation I had Humility + 2 Eternal Dragons in play. My opponent had 1 Nought and 2 Goyfs. He destroyed my Humility to finish me of but I cycled Decree, chumped his creatures and killed him with both dragons next turn ;) Dragon+Humility=t3h pwnz0rs. No, really, dragons rock! Play at least one!
Agreed, especially against decks packing Krosan Grip i'll throw the Dragon into play with Humility down. Very few decks these days can take out Dragon and Humility at the same time. In a large event a couple weeks ago against Black Thresh I dropped Humility followed by a dragon. I actualy went so far as to drop Ajani and start putting counters on the Dragon. He showed me after the Grip in his hand but he couldn't ever afford to get rid of Humility because the Dragon would have been to much, granted it killed him anyway but he stalled for awhile. The Humility still negated all of his drops from being a threat. Goyf, Goose and Bob. It obviously doesn't have the same synergy as Decree but Dragon is still well worth playing.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
@ Konsultant-- I finally got around to testing your build (UWg), and found that it is pretty powered... I was absolutely surprised how many targets grip has nowadays... I have won a lot of games just because they did not expect it MD, and I ended up winning because of it... At first, I missed the humilities in the MD, but I have found that that is exactly what the card should be: an agro SB slot... That will probably be my new MD now... I will need to change the SB accordingly of coarse.
That being said... Would anyone here be interested in testing their LS against a faeries deck... preliminary testing has shown LS to have a bad MU, but my opponent was not the most competent, and would like to get some serious testing done... just PM me if you are curious/interested.
Well I finally got the results I wanted to back up my list yesterday. I went 8-0-2 taking first in the 68 person 1,000$ cash Altered States event yesterday. The 2 draws were intentional after going 5-0 in the first 5 rounds of the swiss. I went undefeated for the day only losing 4 games out of the 8 rounds I actually played. My rounds through the swiss were no cake walk either, my first round opponent ended up being my opponent in the finals and my round 4 opponent was my opponent in the top 4. Both of them only losing to me for the day. I even got paired against Alex Hatfield in the top 8. The deck did what I wanted it to and had all the consistency I was looking for. I actually didn't use the majority of my SB, the MD had the control pieces I needed. I will write up a more complete report if I can find the time to.
Team Pandora
Team Disqualified Poster
Just to report DIF: I went 5-1-1 using his current list in this thread, making 4th of 67 in Dülmen (Jan Sudmann was 2nd, playing the same list). I just had to replace Return to Dust with Dismantling Blow because I couldn't get any Return to Dust. I chose to play this deck and DIF's list because his good arguments in discussions regarding LS really persuated me to try out his list with some "strange" cardchoices, like no CoW etc.; I played against:
- Enchantress (2:0), G1 I can slow him by countering all his enchantres-effects und then I won with Eternal Dragon. Plays like: Humility is in play and he plays Argothian Enchantress and THEN Oblivion Ring targeting Humility made my day (resp StP obv). G2 I resolved Runed Halo on Words of War and Meddling Mage chanting Sacred Mesa and he conceded.
- 3c Rock (2:0), I got control fairly easy in both games due to CA from Standstill or wrathing multiple creatures etc. This game was the easiest today, it was just like having the superior deck.
- Affinity (2:1), G1 he was too fast for me, he had two Cranial Platings and I could just handle one. In G2 I drew everything you wish for as a LS player and G3 was very tight. It was very long because he was in topdeck mode and I used recurring EE to handle his threats until he played Myr Enforcer which I wasn't able to destroy with EE so I had to topdeck a StP or something similar and I did so, Wrath. He then begun to draw lands and I could stabilize on 1 life.
- Survival (2:1): Was against a friend (Windux) and we made some jokes etc. so I can't remember much except for my bad plays :P I lost G1 because he resolved SotF and could search for Squee, Genesis, Eternal Witness, won G2 because I drew 3/4 Meddling Mages and won G3 because he didn't find anything in SDT.
- Ichorid (1:1), although G1 took quiet long, in the end I wasn't able to defend myself against all the tokens and Ichorids. G2 he conceded because he had just 3 cards left in his library and wasn't able to win against me anymore, because Humility was in play und his Ichorids got extirpated, the same for BfB. 10 min. left for G3 I sideboarded out all win conditions and just played for a draw because I was sure that I couldn't win within 8 min anymore and wanted to protect against a quick start from him.
- Mirror (0:2) against Jan Sudmann who went 2nd at the end, with UWb LS too. :)
Well, control mirror, not very exciting to write about it. He won because he had the later DoJ and more tokens therefore.
- 5c Zoo (2:1). G1 I lost because he was too fast for me, G2 I was a bit lucky, because I drew the StP for his Bob twice after he played him and could win due to recurring EE. In G3 he had a more slower start, I had to deal with Vexing Shushers, which were not the big problem. As he was in topdeckmode I could wish for Pulse of the Fields and stabilize and won with a EOT Decree for 7 tokens after he burned himself down to 7 in order to get rid of pulse. :)
I'm very satisfied with the deck and can just recommend the list to everyone who doesn't know what list to play. The missing of CoW seems bad, but actually I never missed it and 3 DoJs were also great. Thanks at DIF for his great work and effort he's putting into the development of LS!
DCI Level 2 Judge
I went 5-2 making 12th (damn O-Score) today in Dülmen with my UWb "RichterStill" list:
Land (24)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Island
3 Plains
1 Wasteland
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
Creatures (1)
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Jace Beleren
Spells (35)
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshare
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Cunning Wish
2 Humility
2 Decree of Justice
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Stone
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Fact or Fiction
Sideboard (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Return to Dust
1 Hydroblast
1 Story Circle (not that good, but won me a game against D Stompy)
3 Extirpate
2 Runed Halo (really strong card) saved my ass against a Crusher and some other Stuff
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon (never boarded them)
2 Declaration of Naught (never boarded them)
Won against:
Rock
Loam
Dragon Stompy
Painter-Control ?
Bye^^
Lost against:
Affinity
LS
Declaration really sux ;)
So Ill play 3-4 M Mage and 1 Tormod_s Crypt maybe 1 Gaea's Blessing, but Painter Shit shouldn't be a problem.
Originally Posted by Pinder
Turns out that some weird chemical reaction between the Twinkie filling and Ranch Dressing opens up a portal straight into Hell, through which the Devil is then able to shit directly into your mouth.
Hi,
i went 4-2-1 in Dülmen.
I played "my" list with 1 Crucible and 1 Wastelandand 2 Dragons, i was 17th because of my bad os(lose first, lots of my opp. drops)
1. Stiflenaught 0-1 doesnt know
2.UB Control 1-1 lose the first becaus of jace and liliana, the second DoJ take the win 3rd was draw
3.doenst know aggro loam(?) 0-2 1st i forgot to put them Enlightened Tutor back into Sb. 2nd I went cardout because of his LotL recurres Cephalid C and his Haunting Echoes
4.Stiflenaught/PainterStone 2-0 I doesnt do any thing and all relevant was countered by me
5.Mono White Stax 2-0 both games he was scewed, in the second Meddling Mage chants Armageddon was take the win
6.MUC 2-0 He did nothing, i did nothing searches me lots of lands with Crucible and Eternal dragon
7.Aggro Loam 1-0 Crucible takes the win, i could recur after every wasteland and/or(later extirpated) Devastings-move because of Academy Ruins+CoW
gets 2 Price Booster (in one was a reflecting pool). I like the Deck more and more. Btw. i never tutors a Artifact by a Enlightened Tutor i always use wish for a Extirpate or 1 time slaughter pact
I(Jan Sudmann) went 6-1 in Dülmen today. I played against:
HanniFish 2-0 Humility>Fish
Belcher 2-0 EE>Token
Dragonstompy 2-1 Humility>DS although I played bad
Belcher 2-0 Some Mages, some EE and Extirpate for his Belcher
3c Show&Tell+TideSpout Tyrant Selfbuild 2-1 If I can handle his Tyrant it´s easy. Nice deck tough allthough he would have lost against Humility which I didn´t get
Mirror(Meteora) As he wrote
Ichorid 1-2 Won the 2nd because of 1 Extirpate and lost the third because of 3 Bfb and 2 Narcos+some therapys against my Halo on Ichorid.
The Deck was as good as always and I was as bad as always. Still a quite funny tournament with a nice roadtrip ;)
U/W/b Landstill
Lands (24)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Faerie Conclave
Spells (36)
1 Decree of Justice
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Fact or Fiction
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
2 Humility
2 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard (15)
4 Counterbalance
4 Extirpate
3 Vindicate
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
I haven't really read much of the thread but I don't understand why lists are only running 1 Crucible of Worlds. I would think that a card that builds your mana up would be a good thing for a control deck. It also recurs your manlands against Wasteland. I don't understand the point in running less than 3 Wasteland, especially with only 1 Crucible. However, I believe that a black splash is stronger than running Wasteland.
Top maindeck is a pretty good card since it can get played before Standstill and be used during a Standstill. Overall it's just a strong card quality engine anyway. It also opens you up to Counterbalance in the board against certain matchups like combo and burn.
Thoughtseize is a very strong compliment to countermagic strategies. The ability to know the opponent's hand, especially under a Standstill, is very strong. The knowledge of knowing what your opponent is playing is invaluable. Lifeloss is largely negated since Thoughtseize is 1cc spot removal anyway. It improves almost all of your matchups.
Extirpate is a strong sideboard card. It handles alot of problematic matchups. It can be used against other control decks, decks that rely around several cards, and decks that rely on graveyard strategies. 1cc uncounterable answers to those is extremely strong.
Vindicate blows up whatever you need to blow up. As a control decks, 3cc spot removal isn't bad when you can destroy a problematic permanent. It's not really necessary maindeck but it is very strong out of the sideboard.
I'm not sure whether or not I'd like to fit in FoF but I'm not sure that it's even necessary with everything else. The 2/4/3/4/3 [now 1/4/4/3/3] draw package seems strong enough to me already and I believe that Top is stronger in the deck than FoF, especially with Crucible/fetchlands. It also enables Counterbalance postboard.
EDITED the Decklist to up the blue count.
Last edited by Hanni; 07-21-2008 at 04:37 AM.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)