[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[Citrus-God]

I looked at your list and have a few questions.

I'm sure I can answer these questions as well.

Why only one Elspeth? I know you have never been fond of her, but isn't having 1 too random?

Diversifying win conditions. I know he likes Elspeth now, but he might go back to running two copies of her. Who knows.

Do you miss disk? I really dislike it's slowness, but on the other hand I love the fact that you can blow it up in your opponent's turn or preferavly at the end of his turn (sometimes to give you enough time to build up a board position). Does this have something to do with the prevalence of Merfolk in your meta?

I think it has more to do with Disk being a bad card in general. I don't see why we went back to running if after we discussed why the card was bad in Landstill a long time ago.

Why cut academy ruins? Too slow?

Not because it's slow, but because it's a colorless source.

Why the one crucible in the side? For which match-ups?

Merfolk, Tempo Thresh, Aggro Loam, mirror, Ultimate Planeswalker...

How on earth did you win the burn match-ups? You must have drawn all you counters or something...

Post-board, he runs 13 Counters. I dont see why he wouldnt.

[Reagens]

I think it has more to do with Disk being a bad card in general. I don't see why we went back to running if after we discussed why the card was bad in Landstill a long time ago.

First of all, thanks for your answer.
I don't remember ever seeing the discussion between you and Konsultant as to why disk is bad. Or more pointedly why it seemed good at first and was cut later on.

Burn:

Ok. 13 counters should do it in your opinion. I never tested that but I think white answers are better since they can't be red blasted... But it serves it's purpose against combo as well I suppose.

@Crucible of worlds:

Like Elspeth this seems awfully random. Is this because of lack of SB space or is it only useful in the very long games?

[J.V.]

How on earth did you win the burn match-ups? You must have drawn all you counters or something...

Obviously, you have never met Geoff Mother-Fucking Smelski!

[mossivo1986]

Citrus Disk kicks ass. It wasnt bad in 05 and it got dropped because the meta changed and we lost mana drain. Now the meta is slow and apart from ant and tes we basicly own every other matchups with disk.

also to the guy who doesnt know. There is a reason his team is called Left Field. .

[Bahamuth]

Now the meta is slow and apart from ant and tes we basicly own every other matchups with disk.

What? Two of the most popular decks are Merfolk and Zoo, with Goblins on the rise because of Instigator. How can you call the meta slow?

[ultimoman]

Disk has usually been great for me. It just saved me in another match against Countertop.

I have to say it is interesting to see E. Dragon being used again.

[jazzykat]

Obviously, you have never met Geoff Mother-Fucking Smelski!

I've never even met the guy but +1. Eyes down for the master.

[LostButSeeking]

@Crucible of worlds:
this seems awfully random. Is this because of lack of SB space or is it only useful in the very long games?

Cruicible is useful in very long games, but it's also useful in other matchups as well. If you play against, say, tempo thresh, and you drop this bad boy after two wastes and two stifled fetches . . . well, it's a good feeling. And that happens in a lot of matchups--merfolk, loam and rock variants, plus any control-on-control matchups you care to name. However, against a lot of things--like combo or burn--it's worse than dead. This is one of those metagame call sideboard things, but personally, I love my cruicibles.

[Ectoplasm]

On the subject of Disk, I recently cut mine from my list because it just sucked ass most of the time so that's +1 for the 'boo for disk' camp.

I must say it felt good completely wiping stax/enchantress' board with it but who the hell plays those decks nowadays?

[mossivo1986]

landstill with disk has a fair game against all of the decks you mentioned behemoth. atleast my model does. the worst of those obviously being zoo but that matchup is very winnable post board.

while u all may disagree with disk the pure fact is that it gives u inevitability in every single matchup in the format besides for tes where its sided out along with path and stills. blast can also come in depending on if its tes or ant.

[rockout]

I've never even met the guy but +1. Eyes down for the master.

Geoff told me a story during GP Chicago of beating burn g1 by just willing it to be. Needless to say he won that round and his opponent cried in the bathroom for hours when Geoff told him he had no hate out of the board. True story.

[Citrus-God]

Citrus Disk kicks ass. It wasnt bad in 05 and it got dropped because the meta changed and we lost mana drain.

We played Disk successfully when Mana Drain got banned. It became bad because every deck we played against, we gave those decks answers against Disk. Goblins had Disenchant and Tinkerer, Thresh had Naturalize and Pithing needles, Solidarity just won, and so on. In favor of Disk, we ran Akroma's Vengeance, which is definitely a better card. It's a lot like why Geoff doesn't play Humilities in the maindeck.

Now the meta is slow and apart from ant and tes we basicly own every other matchups with disk.

To be honest, we dont own every other deck with Disk, but with Elspeth. The reason why Disk even became a decent card at all is because of Elspeth.

[whiteshepherdman]

Could anyone explain the Geoff's singleton counterspell and fourth wrath of god in the side? If we really wanted more control in the mirror match we would side in negate first before counterspell in my oppinion. What matches would a counterspell and 3 negates be more useful than 4 negates in the side instead?
Also, isn't 4 wrath of gods just overkill? If we really wanted more sweepers for the control match why not use a singleton disk instead in the sideboard?

[ultimoman]

Could anyone explain the Geoff's singleton counterspell and fourth wrath of god in the side? If we really wanted more control in the mirror match we would side in negate first before counterspell in my oppinion. What matches would a counterspell and 3 negates be more useful than 4 negates in the side instead?
Also, isn't 4 wrath of gods just overkill? If we really wanted more sweepers for the control match why not use a singleton disk instead in the sideboard?

Team Left Field perhaps. As for the Wrath instead of Disk (for Geoff at least), see some above perhaps.

Heres a question for the Wish users concerning the Mirror: What do you Extirpate in the mirror match? Their counters, E.E., or their few win cons?

[whiteshepherdman]

name decree of justice

Since its a win condition that could give them an advantage over you more than elspeth. I've tested a lot of the mirror and multiple soldiers from decree under standstill is a lot better than an elspeth pumping out 1 creature a turn. The 5 or more 1/1s you make at the end of turn would be able overrun and kill their elspeth since elspeth can only make so many 1/1 blockers to save itself

[Mark Sun]

On the subject of Disk, I recently cut mine from my list because it just sucked ass most of the time so that's +1 for the 'boo for disk' camp.

I must say it felt good completely wiping stax/enchantress' board with it but who the hell plays those decks nowadays?

Haha, I'm expecting a few of said decks on the floor this Sunday.

I don't think I want to cut Disk under any circumstances unless I scout and all I see is TES/ANT and the like.

[Citrus-God]

Team Left Field perhaps. As for the Wrath instead of Disk (for Geoff at least), see some above perhaps.

Just to put this on the line also, Geoff cut Disk from the deck in his later builds after that whole 4 WoG, 3 Disk thing everybody else at the time was into. I used to hate Vengeance back then, and I hated Disk as well. I would've thrown in 1-2 more Day of Judgements had those been printed back then. But Elspeth is just better in general really. Really, run Elspeth. If you hit her Ultimate, she doesnt die to Vindicates or EE.

Heres a question for the Wish users concerning the Mirror: What do you Extirpate in the mirror match? Their counters, E.E., or their few win cons?

It depends on the situation, your hand, your board in correlation with your opponent's board and what you read their hand as. I've won games against the mirror because I made a play of Turn 2 Wasteland on Factory, Extirpate. All I had to do from there was play under Standstill better than them.

I also won another time against the mirror by going for their Counterspells. That plan isn't so good anymore because every Landstill build has 3 Negates in the sideboard. Extirpating DoJ is a good idea. Elspeth... hardly ever resolved against me, really. Especially with a Standstill down, most good players would just let go of Elspeth. So if you have Extirpates in the deck, I say just board them in. Chances are, boarded in Extirpates will be much better than having to Wish for it. Especially if it has Split Second. My advice here is don't cast it on DoJ until Standstill breaks. Blocking their soldier tokens with your own can get you by much better than just Extirpating their DoJs anyway.

If you had to cast Wish, Wish for cards that actually answer problems. Perhaps Return to Dust or Krosan Grip for their CoWs? Maybe even Wish for card advantage like FoF which can easily get you by even better.

However, in this match up, I always board Wishes out. The only times I board them back in is when the opposing Landstill player knows that I play under Standstill better than they do, because then, I have less Standstills to deal with.

Could anyone explain the Geoff's singleton counterspell and fourth wrath of god in the side?

WoG is just kinda a card we board in for match ups where WoG is just a good card. I used to have 4 WoGs in the board until I started running Tsabo's Decree as a Wish target.

Counterspell is just for games where we need more of a late game in general. Sometimes he'll just board out FoWs so having Counterspell has a hard counter in place of FoW helps as well.

If we really wanted more control in the mirror match we would side in negate first before counterspell in my oppinion. What matches would a counterspell and 3 negates be more useful than 4 negates in the side instead?

Against, it wont really matter, but a 4th Counterspell can definitely do a lot more than a 4th Negate.

Also, isn't 4 wrath of gods just overkill?

5 WoGs would be overkill. You only need 4 reset buttons. 3 is nice, but the deck lacks library manipulation, and FoF can make 4-1 splits. So having extra WoGs in the deck helps.

If we really wanted more sweepers for the control match why not use a singleton disk instead in the sideboard?

Cuz Disk is conditional because of the CIPT. I've talked to DIF about Disk before. If you're facing down multiple threats, it's definitely better to just wipe those off the board now. There are match ups where timing and resolution of WoG matters. CounterTop, Tempo Thresh, Merfolk, Zoo... same deal.

[Atog]

..But Elspeth is just better in general really. Really, run Elspeth. If you hit her Ultimate, she doesnt die to Vindicates or EE...

She actually dies to removal.

-8: For the rest of the game, artifacts, creatures, enchantments, and lands you control are indestructible.

So she doesn't protect her self from removal :/

Have anyone trying Hanni's build in tournaments? If so, what was your record?

[mossivo1986]

1. d.i.f. hasn't touched landstill since december of last year. i know i kept close contact with him. everytime i talked with him it was always about how white thresh just wins more consistently because it runs better cards.

now i took his last list and tuned the shit out of it. tuned it so much that at gp chicago i was running over lists that didn't even involve the strategy i was attemting to remove from the populous (graveyard abuse) i also played the archtype with a much more proactive strategy then anything anyone else has been piloting that i've personally seen. throughout all of this i realized that d.i.f's theory although a solid strategy was wrong for the mid-west american meta as a whole. this is around when i started talking to geoff even though i strongly disagreed with his style of redundancy over utility. heck i even worked with geoff initially on a build with more utility. but it obviously was not in the cards.

it is only when gustah told me to run disk as a 1 of for utility and i later understould with his crazy italian ass that it was the inevitability that elspeth achieves with disk (or academy ruins) that truly just nullifies a majority of the decks in this current format. this ranges from stax to merfolk and honestly the model im current
y piloting feels like im playing more of an itf build with a better landbase and better answers to the overall format.i owe gustah and michael alot of respect when it comes to the sheer ammount of time and testing thats gone into team awesomes wish still.

also side note. pating ee is the approach i prefer. its simple and it leaves them unprotected against ur decrees.

my model may not be as redundant as geoffs but i personally feel like i have a much wider reach then his deck does. the only thing id like to see happen in my version is a highlander slot for iona/ dredge decks and im not even sure thats at all neccesary. i could easily pull 1 cb out of the board and switch it with a relic but i think thats a bad choice.

[mossivo1986]

all im going to say about hanni is the dude is over in every other thread as well trying to mix decks around. check out his white splash thresh list which features such heavy hitters as elspeth and w.o.g.