[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[Citrus-God]

I'd reckon most goblin pilots would board out incinerators as well :)

If they have better cards to bring in. Sometimes a 2/1 is better than some other creature. Lately, they've been printing better creatures, so Goblins will definitely board out Gempalm. Of course, they can easily board it back in against you, and your lose some of your advantage over them, since they dont actually spend cards to kill your Preacher.

[Atog]

What you guys side in against thresh decks? Like baseruption, countertop bant and similar decks? Do you side out wraths for more spot removal and maybe 1x counterspell?

[NQN]

Nothing? Just abuse the fact that our 60>their 60. Maybe some Perishs if you have them but apart from that, I wouldn´t board Paths (except for TempoTresh where I´d go for Relics and Paths).

[Ectoplasm]

Anything that improves your lategame > planeswalkers (I still want to try out that 'Left Field tech' Liliana), crucibles etc.

[Citrus-God]

What you guys side in against thresh decks? Like baseruption, countertop bant and similar decks? Do you side out wraths for more spot removal and maybe 1x counterspell?

You definitely keep Wraths in post board. In fact, if you could board in more WoGs, you would. It's a really good card in this match up.

[whiteshepherdman]

I was trying some secret tech against tempo thresh yesterday and ended up winning with E plague/ relic combo for game 2. Siding out 3 vindicates and 3 EE for 3 plagues and 3 relics and paths instead swords since he didn't run basics.

[mossivo1986]

I was trying some secret tech against tempo thresh yesterday and ended up winning with E plague/ relic combo for game 2. Siding out 3 vindicates and 3 EE for 3 plagues and 3 relics and paths instead swords since he didn't run basics.

lol you dont side out stp.... almost ever (Even against tes post board you keep it in for xantrid.)

also I've mentioned the plague combo with relic many times in this thread as well as geoff and a few others.

[whiteshepherdman]

If you know after game 1 that they arn't running basics, and if you don't plan on playing more stp effects, why not switch swords for path and beat having to give them free life vs giving them nothing? I'd stp my own factory if i was really that desperate but do we really need less lands against tempo threshold? i think not...

[mossivo1986]

If you know after game 1 that they arn't running basics, and if you don't plan on playing more stp effects, why not switch swords for path and beat having to give them free life vs giving them nothing? I'd stp my own factory if i was really that desperate but do we really need less lands against tempo threshold? i think not...

Your last statement is confusing and potentially wrong.

If you know after game 1 that they are not running basic lands it should make 0 difference in your gameplan unless your gameplan is to hoze them in a more serious way then pathing their tarmogoyf/ possibly 1 clique or predator. Paths drawback has little focus in this matchup and honestly I think your exploiting the drawback way more then it really is in said matchup. Bottom line Landdrops and relic of progenitus dominate this matchup. Adding in plague is a cute trick and I think its funny and can work (but ive also seen it backfire.)

You never side out stp in the tempo thresh variant for that pure fact that you may actually need to stp your own factory as you said. Life gain can be quintisential if your original gameplan doesn't go along as necessary. So yes to answer your question sometimes tempo thresh revolves around sacrificing your mishra's to the greater good.

The great thing is that since most tempo thresh variants are 99.9% the same you can do all your counting with them.

[Citrus-God]

If you know after game 1 that they arn't running basics, and if you don't plan on playing more stp effects, why not switch swords for path and beat having to give them free life vs giving them nothing? I'd stp my own factory if i was really that desperate but do we really need less lands against tempo threshold? i think not...

You're going to have to have 7 Swords to Plowshares post board against Tempo Thresh. Especially if they board Spell Pierce against you. Boarding in cards like Plague and Relic can be alright, but definitely not reliable. Your only hope is to make plays where you can force Dazes and Spell Pierces out, as they have no card advantage. From there, you play Swords and Paths to keep the board clear of Tarmogoyfs. Mongeese are an issue, but you're going to have to make plays where you tap out for Vindicates so that you can force a card out of their hand and then proceed to read their hand for upcoming Turns. This is also why you also board in Preachers, because they can't board 4 REBs and 4 Spell Pierces against you without taking out removal. It's all about complicating the Tempo Thresh player and having that Tempo Thresh player make mistakes against you. 50% of the games I've won with Landstill is by either having the better deck or the opponent makes a mistake against me. Knowing this format and how just about every match up you play is around 50/50-60/40, you're going to need to learn how to have the psychological edge in all your match ups.

[Hanni]

I wouldn't bring in Path's vs Tempo Thresh. Goyf's not the problem here, Mongoose is. They have Wastelands for Factory and Stifle's for EE. Honestly, the only thing I board for this matchup is -2 O Ring, +2 Path. However, I am playing U/W Counterbalance Landstill...

4 StP, 3 WoG, 2 (O Ring MD, Path SB) has been enough removal for me. The only back and forth struggle with this matchup is simply the war of resources; ramping up lands before they push the final points through. Luckily, Mongoose tends to stay small for the first few turns of the game, while I develop my manabase. The best plan, as mentioned already, is to spin Top. Top makes sure I draw my basics (I run 7, so I consistently play around both Stifle and Waste when I have Top). The best way I've sealed the game in this matchup is to play turn 2 Top, turn 3 Counterbalance, and turn 4-5 WoG (2cc spell on top if possible, put there turn 3 for turn 4 WoG's, or of course a FoW in my hand).

My (Canadian) Tempo Thresh matchup is really good, I've yet to lose to it. I know I'll lose against it at somepoint (random manascrew from unlucky shuffling, etc), but my point is that the matchup overall is very good.

Oh, and this:

U/W Counterbalance Landstill

This message has been brough to you by the letter H.

[Citrus-God]

I wouldn't bring in Path's vs Tempo Thresh. Goyf's not the problem here, Mongoose is.

If Goyfs arent the problem here, then you have obviously never had your BSs and Standstills REBed while you want to take some control over the board. YOU NEED TO BRING PATHS IN. If you don't, a majority of your control cards are dedicated to Goyf. Your EEs will be spent on Goyfs, and that is a silly investment to make. Your WoGs will be spent on Goyfs, which is also silly. Your Vindicates will be spent on Goyfs (it should be target a land if your ever cast it, not when you have to respond). Still fucking silly.

Edit. Your problem is Mongoose, only after you deal with Goyf. Dealing with Goyf only becomes a problem when you use overcosted cards against it. Deal with Goyf using cheap efficiency and for the rest of the game, you only have to deal with Mongoose. That takes a lot of planning for it to work.

They have Wastelands for Factory and Stifle's for EE. Honestly, the only thing I board for this matchup is -2 O Ring, +2 Path. However, I am playing U/W Counterbalance Landstill...

So you do bring Paths in?

4 StP, 3 WoG, 2 (O Ring MD, Path SB) has been enough removal for me. The only back and forth struggle with this matchup is simply the war of resources; ramping up lands before they push the final points through. Luckily, Mongoose tends to stay small for the first few turns of the game, while I develop my manabase. The best plan, as mentioned already, is to spin Top. Top makes sure I draw my basics (I run 7, so I consistently play around both Stifle and Waste when I have Top). The best way I've sealed the game in this matchup is to play turn 2 Top, turn 3 Counterbalance, and turn 4-5 WoG (2cc spell on top if possible, put there turn 3 for turn 4 WoG's, or of course a FoW in my hand).

Top helps, but still, against a plethora of cheap disruption, you should still board Paths in. This way, you have some efficiency against that deck.

My (Canadian) Tempo Thresh matchup is really good, I've yet to lose to it. I know I'll lose against it at somepoint (random manascrew from unlucky shuffling, etc), but my point is that the matchup overall is very good.

Against bad players they must either keep bad hands or play mediocre-good hands poorly. It's overall good, by why make it more complicated? It's getting worse thanks to fucking Spell Pierce. Don't even suggest playing around it, because 2 mana open is fucking hard to do.

[Hanni]

I wouldn't bring in Path's vs Tempo Thresh. Goyf's not the problem here, Mongoose is.

I mistyped that. I meant as an additional removal spell, sorry. I bring them in vs Tempo Thresh in replacement for O Rings because there are no relevant artifacts/enchantments for O Ring to hit and PtE is more efficient. But I only do a minor 2 for 2 swap, and I see people suggesting adding an additional 3-4 PtE's... what are you dropping?

Top helps, but still, against a plethora of cheap disruption, you should still board Paths in. This way, you have some efficiency against that deck.

Yea, I bring in 2, to replace the slower O Rings.

Against bad players they must either keep bad hands or play mediocre-good hands poorly. It's overall good, by why make it more complicated? It's getting worse thanks to fucking Spell Pierce. Don't even suggest playing around it, because 2 mana open is fucking hard to do.

2 mana open is very difficult to do. They also run a very light threat base against a deck that runs a very heavy removal suite. Spell Pierce and other effects or not, this matchup is easy as long as you can stabilize your manabase. If they hit you with a few Stifles and Wastelands and your locked out of a color or stuck on 1-2 land, you're screwed even if you bring in PtE's.

Plus, they either don't always have the reactive spell available, or they tapped out to cast that Goose/Goyf/Ponder, whatever. When they don't have the answer, I resolve Counterbalance, and now they are screwed for the rest of the game. If they have a resolved threat in play, they have to hope they can kill me before I draw one of my answers, of which I run plenty, and plenty of ways to draw into them. If I answer the Goyf they tapped out for with an StP, I just locked them out of the game. Fewer lists these days are running the 1/1 bounce split, and even then, only 1 is a Wipe Away, and they only run cantrips, not tutors.

All I'm saying is that I've found it to be a good matchup for my build, I haven't tested the matchup with other various Landstill builds. I run 4 Brainstorm and 4 Top, so my early digging for lands is fantastic under manabase pressure. If they cannot apply manabase pressure, I simply run more powerful cards than they do, and I win. That's what I was getting at. In direct comparison from my list to others, aside from the 2c manabase vs others 3c manabases, CounterTop locks them out, so they cannot come back, and is resolvable during the early game if they spent their countermagic winning a counterwar over (my) StP vs their Goyf.

[Citrus-God]

Oh, it was a typo. Sorry bout that then.

Also, I would like to add that SDTs are the best cards you can have in this deck. Mana economy-wise, it's very spendy, but the quality in return is well worth it. Keep in mind, SDT can chain you into draw spells so that you always have a plan B when the first draw spell works bitter in your favor. I've been testing them for awhile, and it's well worth it.

[Atog]

Oh, it was a typo. Sorry bout that then.

Also, I would like to add that SDTs are the best cards you can have in this deck. Mana economy-wise, it's very spendy, but the quality in return is well worth it. Keep in mind, SDT can chain you into draw spells so that you always have a plan B when the first draw spell works bitter in your favor. I've been testing them for awhile, and it's well worth it.

So whats your list is looking like then with SDT? And sideboard?

[paK0]

Played this some time ago in a a small tournament:


4 Tundra
4 Mishras Factory
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Brackmarsh
4 Island
3 Plains

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Standstill
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Decree of Justice


---------------

SB:
4 Meddling Mage
4 Path to Exile
2 Hydroblast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Energy Flux
2 Oblivion Ring


Worked well, I placed second beating Storm two times, Kithkin and Affinity while loosing to Bant-Survival.

I'm testing right now what to change and I'm as far:

MD:
-1 Counterspell
+1 Spell Snare

SB:
- 1Energy Flux
-1 Path to Exile
+ 2 Spell Snare



Snare is soooo good against all the Survival running around here, so mb its a metachoice, but still I like it =).

[Hanni]

Hell yea dude, it makes me very happy to see you trying my list. I'm glad you did well, you should write up a tiny report or something. ;)

Oh, and wtf is Brackmarsh? Am I missing something...?

[whiteshepherdman]

I think he might have meant marsh flats

[LostButSeeking]

Snare is soooo good against all the Survival running around here, so mb its a metachoice, but still I like it =).

I play four maindeck. It's really, really good in every matchup i've ever played.

[Citrus-God]

So whats your list is looking like then with SDT? And sideboard?

Something along the lines of


// Mana 24
1 Eternal Dragon
2 City of Brass
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Island


// Spells 36
3 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
3 Fact or Fiction
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Decree of Justice


// Sideboard 15
4 Counterbalance
3 Spell Snare
3 Path to Exile
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Krosan Grip


It's a pretty shitty list, but thanks to the fact that Top is so fast, I don't care if my 1st Deed gets Stifled. I can shuffle -> find another Deed/EE via Top.