Page 191 of 279 FirstFirst ... 91141181187188189190191192193194195201241 ... LastLast
Results 3,801 to 3,820 of 5564

Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #3801

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Hey guys, I have been a longtime lurker on these boards but never posted. This deck is by far my favourite and a couple weeks ago here in Ontario we had 2 legacy tourneys in one weekend. The first had 35 people and my landstill deck won the Mox!! Woot woot and the 2nd had 48 people with my deck making the Top 8 then losing to Merfolk. The field was relatively well represented seeing all the major decks and then some fun randoms as well. The point was that I wanted to share my decklist and then receive some thoughts/feedback regarding it. A few notes on the deck...I built this using all the ideas I saw/read and have used in the past (I haven't used Landstill in Legacy in a long time) and I just procured the Moat so I definitely wanted to play it! :) Also, there were times when Moat resolved and the opponent literally had no Game 1 answer to it. BOOYAH! Ideas on improving the merfolk matchup would be great because that is one of the most difficult.

    With no further ado...

    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Counterspell
    4 Standstill
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Cunning Wish
    1 Moat
    1 Humility
    2 Wrath of God
    2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
    4 Force of Will
    2 Decree of Justice
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Wasteland
    1 Dust Bowl
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Tundra
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Tolaria West
    2 Island
    2 Plains

    SB:
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Extirpate
    1 Ravenous Trap
    2 Path to Exile
    1 Pulse of the Fields
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Dismantling Blow
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    3 Spell Snare
    1 Crucible of Worlds

    Hopefully I will be on here regularly from now on. And thanks in advance for the advice.

  2. #3802
    Member
    Felidae's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2010
    Location

    Germany, NRW
    Posts

    168

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    First of all gz to your finish.

    There are some smaller parts in your list I don't like at all, wich are mainly the single E.Tutor and the lonly Top. Even if "random" might be the wrong word it looks like you could better play a 3rd Explosiv instead of the Tutor (even if he provides a faster way to get Moat / Humility online) and Top might be Eternal Dragon, Path or even FoF.
    I'd play a 2nd Humility over Moat every time, but as it is your personal preference you should definitely keep it.
    With a Crucible in your mainboard a 2nd or even a 3rd Wasteland (instead of Dustbowl/Mishra) looks worthwhile.

    I suppose that the Spell Snares in your Sideboard are actually Spell Pierces?

    cheers

    Felidae_
    Our music means nothing, except for what it means to
    you.

  3. #3803
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2006
    Location

    Gent / Flanders
    Posts

    109

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    This is the list where I went 94th place in Madrid with.

    Match ups were

    3* merfolk
    2* painter servant
    1* dreadstill
    1* rock loam
    2* zoo
    2* ant
    1* ichorid
    1* faeries
    1*combo elves


    The list:

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Wrath of God
    3 Decree of Justice
    2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 Eternal Dragon
    3 Vindicate
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Spell Snare
    3 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Standstill
    3 Fact or Fiction
    1 Humility
    3 Flooded Strand
    1 Polluted Delta
    2 Marsh Flats
    2 Island
    2 Plains
    1 Swamp
    4 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    3 Mishra's Factory
    3 Wasteland


    3 engineered plague
    4 extirpate
    4 Ethersworn canonist
    3 Kitchen finks
    1 Ajani gold-mane

    Special thanks to Morbid- for some very sound last minute advice, to Steven from benelegacy (we almost never agree, but he has some very interesting views on the deck), and team MCG for testing.

    I will write a little report when I have time & motivation. The experience was very exhausting :). I also don't have notes so it'll be a very sketchy report.
    Last edited by Reagens; 03-02-2010 at 05:17 AM. Reason: addition
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.

  4. #3804
    just wants to cuddle
    rsaunder's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2006
    Location

    Geneseo NY
    Posts

    494

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Congrats on the finish!

    I know a little while back both Rogue and myself expressed an interest in playtesting Jace M. again, and I've done a little work with him. All in all, I'm impressed. I don't know if he's earned 2 slots in my build, but I think at this point a 1/1 split with FoF is in order. What I've noticed it that his bounce is pretty solid with standstill, and very relevant since not many decks but goblins can keep more than one threat on the table against us and he forces overextending. I've had some success trying to "lock" opponents out of the games by scrying them every turn, which has been marginallay successful. It's better against decks like reanimator or merfolk where they need certain cards instead of decks like zoo where they have a decent chance of drawing gas even with the top gas card gone. I'm not sure it's a better strategy than shooting yourself with it or the brainstorm looking for an elspeth, but his ultimate grows quickly and I've gotten a few wins with it, which FEELS good. My one issue right now is that I'm not sure if he's better than an Ajani Vengent or even Els#3.

    Thoughts? Experiences?
    I'm here to kick ass and play card games.

    BZK

  5. #3805
    Just some dude.
    Mark Sun's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2009
    Location

    Akron, Ohio, USA
    Posts

    824

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @ Reagens,

    Very impressive! You were a Day 2'er, I had hopes when I saw 4 LS lists in the 237 . I am glad to see some success from LS in this new year. Will there be a tournament report for us?

    rsaunder, about Jace 2.0, I recommended the UWr List I played for a friend and he swapped -2 FoF for +2 Jace 2.0, and I am told it worked very well for him. You're correct in saying that the scry ability is diminished with threat density/library manipulation, but he was able to use the Ultimate more than a few times with protection from board sweepers and removal. I know you and I are part of the discussion on MTGS about Reanimator hate, and Jace seems to be a pretty good answer (better than my janky Tolaria West / Karakas tech, anyways) instead of my idea of using Curfew out of the board.

    Unfortunately, I'm trying to build TES on a student's budget so it will be a while until I own my own pair of Jaces. I originally planned to play at SCG Indy, but it happens to be the Sunday right before Finals Week at Ohio State, so I probably won't be attending (sadly, Spring Quarter finals and graduation take place the first week of June, which is the SCG Philly Open... fml). Reanimator is popular right now and I was hoping to run the gauntlet with it, but oh well.
    Delver enthusiast and avid practitioner of blind flipsmanship.

    Follow me on Twitter: @AllSunsDawn

  6. #3806
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2006
    Location

    Gent / Flanders
    Posts

    109

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I'll see what I can remember from Madrid.

    Round 1-3: bye

    Round 4: Ichorid

    Game 1: Great. My first nightmare match-up of the day :(. Game 1 I can stall just long enough to resolve humility. I have to play every dirty trick in the book (wasting my own animated factory among others) but eventually manage to win the game after I countered 3 hardcast golgari-grave-troll.
    Game 2: The game swings back and forth after I slow him down with extirpate on his first and only dredge outlet. My 2 engineered plague get the axe (second one was deliberate since I was holding humility as well). I resolve a canonist as well and I can start some damage. Eventually the ground gets clogged and I wil be facing lethal next turn. He has a nacromoeba as well, so I can't fly in for the necessary damage with canonist (I had Elspeth). Eventually I play humility, setting everybody on the ground, I give canonist +3/+3 and flying for lethal damage.

    Round 5: Merfolk
    (I think against 1 of the Rossini's)

    Game 1: merfolk does what it does best I think.
    Game 2: I am force to break standstill twice and at a certain point he discards a lord of atlantis which cost him the game (I killed the other one in his hand).
    Game 3: He has to mull to 4 or 5 and has no lands.When he does get the lands he's to far behind.

    Round 6: Saito ANT.

    Game 1&2: this wasn't even close. I got the snot beaten out of me. Very bad match-up.

    Round 7: Merfolk

    Again? I can’t believe my luck . I don’t remember much, but I was VERY happy with kitchen finks.

    Round 8:
    Painter/servant. After a protracted game 1 I lose.
    Game 2 sees me staring at painter and grindstone extirpated, but since he can red blast every relevant spell I see, he kills me anyway.

    Round 9: Faeries
    2-1
    Engineered plague saves the day twice after I lost game 1 to a turn 2 bitterblossom. Beats from kitchen finks helped as well.

    Day 2:

    Round 1:
    Merfolk. AGAIN!!! I curse my luck yet again and get going. Game 1 Merfolk does what is is supposed to to and game 2 I just can’t keep up with his tempo.

    Round 2:
    Painter/servant
    I win game 1 on humility (I know painter still ‘paints’ everything, but my opponent scoops anyway)
    Game 2: at a certain point he has painter in play. I play eot FoF with him having 1 red open. Predictably he has red blast (FoF was bait anyway). I extirpate his FoW to make sure vindicate resolves in my turn and I extirpate painter as well.

    Round 3:
    Rock loam something with loam, FoW, intuition, crop rotation and many other strange choices.
    Game 1: it is too difficult to get grips with the deck and I lose when he sets up a loam engine
    Game 2: I win 5 minutes before time is called with some lucky draws and barely hanging in. He stalled for the entire game 2 (enough to matter, not enough to call a judge)
    Game 3: I decide a draw is the maximum for me and as such I decide to employ his own tactic. He is probably 1 attack phase short of killing me. I feel very little sympathy for him since he did it to himself.

    Round 4:
    Zoo:
    Game 1&2: I just see too much removal and have enough CA to matter. Game 2 I play around his (very obvious) PoP

    Round 5:
    Combo elves:
    Game 1: I win barely but it’s a win nonetheless.
    Game 2: I have plagues and I was sandbagging my humility for his krosan grips he never boarded in)

    Round 6: Dreadstill
    Game 1: I have the perfect hand with 2 explosives and other shenanigans and still get beaten after killing his first 3(!!) dreadnoughts because I drew lands for 7 turns and not 1 was an answer to his relentless factory. What a frustrating thing.
    Game 2: Once again I am screwed over when I am under blood moon and getting bludgeoned by a trinket mage and I topdecked 5 lands in a row (yes I pile shuffle after EVERY game). One of the most frustrating moments in my magic career ever 

    Round 7: ANT
    Very strange.
    Game 1 my opponent is completely exhausted and ad nauseams himself to death when he could have stopped and killed me anyway.
    Game 2 he loses yet again because of his own decisions, instead of my great magic skills…

    Round 8: Zoo
    Game 1&2: He has al lot of tempo and I have nothing and I see even less (I had to mull).
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.

  7. #3807
    Member
    RogueMTG's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2008
    Location

    Central NY
    Posts

    290

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by rsaunder View Post
    Congrats on the finish!

    I know a little while back both Rogue and myself expressed an interest in playtesting Jace M. again, and I've done a little work with him. All in all, I'm impressed. I don't know if he's earned 2 slots in my build, but I think at this point a 1/1 split with FoF is in order. What I've noticed it that his bounce is pretty solid with standstill, and very relevant since not many decks but goblins can keep more than one threat on the table against us and he forces overextending. I've had some success trying to "lock" opponents out of the games by scrying them every turn, which has been marginallay successful. It's better against decks like reanimator or merfolk where they need certain cards instead of decks like zoo where they have a decent chance of drawing gas even with the top gas card gone. I'm not sure it's a better strategy than shooting yourself with it or the brainstorm looking for an elspeth, but his ultimate grows quickly and I've gotten a few wins with it, which FEELS good. My one issue right now is that I'm not sure if he's better than an Ajani Vengent or even Els#3.

    Thoughts? Experiences?
    I've played with Jace 2.0 a little bit, deffinitely performed his anti-Iona role well. I have swapped him with 2x FoF for now. Was hoping to get a lot of playing in last weekend, but my planned trip to Star City was unfortunately foiled by rediculous amounts of snow and Eli getting the flu. I'll try and offer some more insight once I've had a little more time with it.

    Congratz to Philly and Reagens on their respective finishes.

    @Reagens: Way to take it to Ichorid!

    I love the simplicity of your sideboard, I think I've been over thinking things a lot.

  8. #3808

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I recently played this deck at the SCG 5K after not being able to borrow anything else. I had never played it before but it was alot of fun. I would like to make a newer updated list though I am unsure where to start. This is the list I played.

    Artifacts
    2 Crucible Of Worlds
    2 Engineered Explosives

    Enchantments
    4 Pernicious Deed
    4 Standstill

    Instants
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Counterspell
    2 Diabolic Edict
    3 Fact Or Fiction
    4 Force Of Will
    4 Swords To Plowshares

    Planeswalkers
    1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

    Sorceries
    1 Crime / Punishment
    1 Decree Of Justice

    Basic Lands
    1 Island

    Lands
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Nantuko Monastery
    1 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Engineered Plague
    4 Blue Elemental Blast
    3 Krosan Grip

    Nantuko Monastery was awful almost every time I played it, either I didn't have w/g or I didn't have threshold. I will be cutting it for some other manland. Jace was amazing all day. I only ulted him 4 times, but whenever I cast him I was able to almost immediately take control of the game. I recommend trying him out if you haven't. Four deed, Two EE and One Crime/Punishment was way too many. I would want to cut those down. The DoJ was a stifle, but I wanted one extra win condition. I only cycled it once though it was helpful.

    These were my matchups at the 5K
    Rnd 1 Merfolk 2-1
    I lost game two due to getting greedy and playing two EP.

    Rnd 2 Zoo 2-0

    Rnd 3 Merfolk 1-2

    Rnd 4 Zoo 2-0

    Rnd 5 Belcher 2-1

    Rnd 6 Probant 2-1

    Rnd 7 Zoo with Treetop Village 1-2

    Rnd 8 Enchantress 1-0

    Rnd 9 Reanimator 2-1


    I was also wondering the reason behind dropping the colors down. I only had problems activating Monastery

  9. #3809
    Member
    RogueMTG's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2008
    Location

    Central NY
    Posts

    290

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by NicefaceLOL View Post
    ...

    I was also wondering the reason behind dropping the colors down. I only had problems activating Monastery
    There is another thread for 4c Landstill, you might be better off posting this there.

    All the same, your list looks ultra greedy. I have trouble believing you were able to reliably cast anything with nine lands that don't produce colored mana in a four color deck.

    Playing UW with a splash allows us to have a resilient, reliable manabase with a good number of basics so that we can avoid getting blown out by Wasteland and Blood Moon type effects.

  10. #3810
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2006
    Location

    Gent / Flanders
    Posts

    109

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueMTG View Post
    Playing UW with a splash allows us to have a resilient, reliable manabase with a good number of basics so that we can avoid getting blown out by Wasteland and Blood Moon type effects.
    Even the 3 colors manabase is borderline I think.
    3-color landstill can withstand wasteland, stifle or vindicate but not a combination of. Recurring wasteland is a problem in itself when left unchecked.

    Losses to merfolk can be largely attributed to the fact that you are not able to go to 4 mana in a timely fashion. As such their dazes, cursecatchers and other annoying things are practically impossible to get over. Post-board they probably play spell pierce for even further annoyance. This is why I chose Kitchen finks on the side (the fact that it is also good against Zoo is another bonus) and is also why I managed to go 2-1 against merfolk in matches.
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.

  11. #3811
    just wants to cuddle
    rsaunder's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2006
    Location

    Geneseo NY
    Posts

    494

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @ Reanimator matchup: I think Faerie Macabere is the right answer to an increase in popularity. Uncounterable, undisenchantable, unduressable, instant speed pinpoint graveyard hate sounds pretty good right now.
    I'm here to kick ass and play card games.

    BZK

  12. #3812

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    here's a list i've been brainstorming on. Technically, it's a countertop deck, but I figured I would post it here because it is, in many ways, an evolution of Landstill. It features all of the same bombs and synergies, just not the iconic card-draw spell:

    3 Mishra's Factory
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tundra
    1 Tropical Island
    5 Island
    5 Plains

    2 Elspeth
    2 Humility
    2 Jace Beleren

    3 Top

    4 Swords
    3 Journey to Nowhere

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Force
    4 Spell Snare
    3 Propaganda
    2 Repeal

    --Board
    4 Pithing Needle
    4 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Wrath of God
    3 Krosan Grip

    I have Journey to Nowhere instead of Path to Exile because it's 2cc better fills out the curve to make counterbalance more effective. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep repeals--I only like them because they can trip. Propaganda isn't final either--it could be switched out for Crucibles. And if I run crucible, then I'd probably dump a tundra or a basic for some dust bowls. The needles in the SB are primarily for Vial and Wasteland.

  13. #3813
    Eating glass
    gustha's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2008
    Location

    Italy, Venice, a small town somwhere in the north.east
    Posts

    236

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    The list isn't that bad, though in some ways I don't think counterbalance belongs to the maindeck of landstill. However:
    -i don't get the point in playing humility anymore. It's dead in many Mu's, dead in g2 after grip, too slow vs merfolk etc. I'd rather have doj or even wrath... I think that propaganda isn't that useful either, you don't run a mana denial plan to significatively take the advantage out of it, I'd rather use firespout which is nuts (I believe it's almost mandatory) in the fast aggro meta, helps vs ichorid as well (though ofc propaganda here is better), and comboes with humility.
    -repeal: counterspell are just that better. If you wish to have bounce MD, you'd better run cunning wish, or simply try jace2.0 in the slots of old jace.
    -journey to nowhere: path gets hit by cb. This gets hit by cb, stifle, grip, EE, spell snare...
    -no standstill = no draw power (besides jace) + less 2cc's for CB.

    i'd run:
    3 Elspeth
    3 Jace Beleren/cunning wish

    4 Top
    3 Brainstorm

    4 Swords
    2 Path to Exile
    3 Firespout

    4 Counterbalance
    4 Force
    4 Spell Snare
    3 Counterspell

    cc1: 17 (a little high)
    cc2: 7 (a little low, but JtN is crap...)
    cc3: 6 (good)
    eventually you can substitute pat to exhile with helix, to raise the 2cc's. Still, you miss some big threath like dreadnought or goyf or whatever, but firespout should be able to shut off tribal and zoo. sb needle is not needed: EE is just that better against vial (and firespout is ofc THAT better vs tribal), and you just don't have to fear wasteland with 10 BASICS Plus needle is useless in many other cases.
    3 reb
    3 aura of silence (nuts vs ant too)
    3 relic
    2 faerie macabre
    3 Kitchen Finks
    1 jace the mind sculptor

    (or obviously another if you choose to run wish again)
    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986
    Sorry for the confusion, and there is always the strong possibility of me being wrong in alot of cases. I am not always right; just most of the time. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by rockout
    Oh my god get to the point. Both of you.

  14. #3814

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I disagree on Humility. IMO, the 4cc bombs like Humility, Elspeth, Moat (sometimes), DoJ and Fact are the only reasons left to play landstill, and of those cards, Humility and Elspeth are clearly the most powerful. There is no card that even comes close to humility's power when it comes to stomping on a certain strategy (in this case, creasture-based aggro) couple that with the fact that it combos with two other pivotal cards in your deck (elspeth, Manlands) and I think it is essential. The only matchup where it should be relevant, but could sometimes backfire is Aggro Loam, and that's because Crusher gets +1/+1 counters put on it. Part of the reason I thought of running Propaganda main is because its power compounds greatly with Humility.

  15. #3815
    Eating glass
    gustha's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2008
    Location

    Italy, Venice, a small town somwhere in the north.east
    Posts

    236

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    IMO, the 4cc bombs like Humility, Elspeth, Moat (sometimes), DoJ and Fact are the only reasons left to play landstill
    Of all these, I think the only reason left is Elspeth... Firespout in the fastened meta is superior to humility, and wrath is superior to humility in any case, being able to actually solve problems and not just to stall until you (hopefully) find a solution. The fact is, we need cards that do well on its own, not just in synergy with other cards, because sometimes we don't get the time to draw out all of our synergyes. And that's precisely the case of humility. All in all, nowadys I see it as the worst card in landstill, being good only vs zoo preside and ofc goblins, MU's that already are playable to favorable for us. Humility is irrelevant vs aggroloam, irrelevant vs reanimator (they just discard it before you can actually cast it, or just counter/bounce it), irrelevant vs dreadstill (we should have an edge on this MU already), totally useless vs aggrocontrol (we should beat them as well, exception made for countertop progenitus maube), clunky vs merfolk, too slow vs ichorid...Ofc good vs zoo and gobbos, but here firespout >>> humility, as it is in many other cases. Propaganda as well is good only IF humility is out, but I'm starting to see too many IF's in your reasoning... (Also note firespout >>> propaganda: it works on its own, doesn't need other cards to work).
    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986
    Sorry for the confusion, and there is always the strong possibility of me being wrong in alot of cases. I am not always right; just most of the time. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by rockout
    Oh my god get to the point. Both of you.

  16. #3816

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I wouldn't say that Humility is irrelevant vs AggroLoam... it nullifies 8 of their beaters (goyf, vore) and, most importantly, Nullifies Confidant. This leaves them to rely on a Crusher, which must have grown before Humility came into play to be relevant. If you can get Humility in before they start growing a Crusher (not that hard), then the only path to victory they have left is Seismic Assault, and you can shut that down by using CB to lock Loam--or by just countering Assault. How is Humility irrelevant vs Dreadstill? Or any other Aggro-Control deck? Last time I checked, they all relied upon creatures to win.

    Also, all these matchups where Humility is supposedly irrelevant are matchups where Firespout is irrelevant! Firespout will very, very rarely kill a Goyf a Vore or a Crusher. It will never kill a Dreadnought or a War Monk, or a Tombstalker or a Progenitus. Hell, you probably cant even kill a Trygon or a Clique unless you're splashing green.

    As for Merfolk/Zoo/Goblins-- all of these decks have ways of recovering, in some cases very, very quickly (ringleader, Sylvan Library, Standstill will almost always be in Merfolk's favor) from sweeper effects. Alternatively, they can play around them by trying to slow roll you and exhaust your spot removal. There is no recovering from Humility. Either your remove it or you lose.
    Goblins have no answer, except maybe Anarchy, Zoo could get grip after boarding and Merfolk have Echoing truth--but you have answers to those answers in the from of 3cc Counterbalance (grip, most everything) and/or Force (everything else)

    As for Firespout vs Propagada--Firespout is better. I just started off with Propaganda in my list because I was afraid I might not have enough blue cards for Force. But I'll dump JTN for Mana Leak. As for repeal--I think maindeck bounce is really good against decks like Zoo, sometimes merfolk, because it helps you stall against 1cc threats like Nacatl or Vial. Repeal's built in cantrip makes it especially good at this role. Its flexible casting cost also makes it really good at removing an opposing counterbalance.

    my new list:

    3 Mishra's Factory
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Arid Mesa
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    5 Island
    4 Plains
    1 Mountain

    2 Elspeth
    2 Humility
    2 Jace Beleren

    3 Top

    4 Swords
    3 Firespout

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Force
    4 Spell Snare
    3 Mana Leak
    2 Repeal
    Last edited by Antonius; 03-05-2010 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Added a new deck list

  17. #3817
    Eating glass
    gustha's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2008
    Location

    Italy, Venice, a small town somwhere in the north.east
    Posts

    236

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    It's not true. Humility does not nullify a thing. Firespout does. Wrath does. Decree does, in some ways. Vindicate does. Swords/path do. EE do. And so on. All of aggroloam's beaters are in the range of EE... I think you have to worry much about LD than beaters, provided you can counter/get rid of chalice. Incidentally, 2/3 AL creatures fall under spell snare (confi & goyf). Humility is nearly irrelevant, post-sb is worse vs. grip; beaters post-sb are kept at bay by relic, no need for humility. And aggroloam have so many other ways to be annoying. Humility is irrelevant vs dreadstill and I always board it out. The reason is simple: if they want to beat us they must play the control deck i.e. first resolve counterbalance. If they can't, then we face a more or less crappy deck with 8 creatures that fall under EE/path/stp = more or less 11-12 removals for 8 creatures, some of which recurrable with ruins. Goyf is kept at bay by elspeth, no need to waste counters/removals on him, we can concentrate on nought (only 4, and more stifle on our fetches the less for nought). No need for humility. Irrelevenat because redundant vs any aggrocontrol deck: we should win vs bant and the like, period. Mirror: dead. Enchantress: almost dead.

    The claim that firespout is irrelevant in all these Mu's you mentioned is silly. Post-sb vs loam use relics and then firespout and you have pretty much the same effect of perish. Vs dreadstill you have more removals than his creatures, side spout out for rebs which own counterbalance which is your only concern against dreadstill. Vs bant bring in rebs too, I hear they help vs clique and trygon and RWM as well, without need of humility. And still they kill exalted guys. Standstill owns this deck, but you don't run the best card of thearchetype, so what? The basic principle here is the same: you have more answers than their threats, keep the counters for order and that's all. And hell, if you're stupid enough not to save a stp for an upcoming Tombstalker, then you should revisit your playstile. I really don't get the point in wasting removals on non-flying creatures when elspeth keeps the ground stalled on its own. So arguments vs spout here really aren't strong, reb pretty much covers its supposed irrelevance in some MU (and it's a wrath effect, so ofc it should be more or less dead in controllish mu's, but the same is true for humility, and more true if I may say).

    Marfolk/zoo/goblins have ways to recover very quicly. Yes and not. They have ways to recover quick after a 4cc wrath, or 5cc in the case of merfolk, but by that turn you could already be dead. They can't recover very fast from a 3cc wrath, plus spout dodges grip and gaddock which is HUGE! If they play slow they simply lose, becose they lose tempo. You resolve elspeth and trade 1/1, 2-3/1 with spout and EE, and they're out of the game (unless they finish you with burn spells). Mind that vs merfolk you are boarding in 3+ additional swords as well (namely: reb). Goblins have no answer to firespout as well, and firespout comes down a turn before: also, requires less specific mana and so it's far more relevant having firespout vs humility under port/waste attack. Firespout vs humility in zoo: simply >>>; you realy prefer having a weak solution on the board or actually trhow to hell all opposing creatures? Well, no doubt I prefer the 2nd, I don't give targets to grip (so +2-3 dead cards in my opponent's deck, and there's always CB) and I don't have to waste a removal or a counter on gaddock, for his little to no problem since it block only fow, which incidentally I sometimes side out (tx Citrus for the hint). Resutl: firespout >>> humility in tribal/zoo MU.

    JtN for mana leak. Don't. Use paths. Counterspell are not suited for an aggro meta, removals are.

    Side note: just try not to use humility. Test, and you'll see you can do well without that card, it's not necessary not even cool anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986
    Sorry for the confusion, and there is always the strong possibility of me being wrong in alot of cases. I am not always right; just most of the time. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by rockout
    Oh my god get to the point. Both of you.

  18. #3818

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Wow. If you don't get that Humility is awesome in Landstill, I don't get why you play the deck. Elspeth sucks. She's only good when something like Humility is in play. Decree sucks. It's so mana-intensive that it's more unrealistic to depend on that then Humility. Decree only becomes good when Humility is out. Manlands suck because Wasteland is everywhere and so is Swords. Humility makes your manlands better than every creature your opponent casts. Landstill is such an awkward deck, it needs to play something as overwhelming to the board state as Humility. I have literally never lost a game once Humility resolved against a creature-based deck. I'm not even exaggerating. The only problem with Humility is that it costs four. Firespout obviously gains value when Humility is out, as well.

    While we're on the topic, Wrath is not better than Humility. Humility singlehandedly takes a deck with the worst win conditions in the format and makes them the best. Wrath just temporarily clears the board. If you have any idea how to play Magic, Humility pretty much does the same thing as Wrath of God while continuing to make your win conditions better. Firespout isn't even better than Wrath of God, it's just cheaper. The reason I run Firespout is because it's largely for the same decks Wrath of God is for and has excellent synergy with Humility which is better than both. Who cares about Krosan Grip or whatever removal they may bring in for it? You stopped playing sideboard cards that improved matchups, too? It's only a one-for-one trade. Who cares?

  19. #3819

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by rsaunder View Post
    @ Reanimator matchup: I think Faerie Macabere is the right answer to an increase in popularity. Uncounterable, undisenchantable, unduressable, instant speed pinpoint graveyard hate sounds pretty good right now.
    Yes, this. Faerie Macabre is a great graveyard hate answer in this meta. I'm playing 2x Faerie Macabre, 1x Tormod's Crypt and 1x Relic of Progenitus as my GY hate suite at the moment.

  20. #3820
    Eating glass
    gustha's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2008
    Location

    Italy, Venice, a small town somwhere in the north.east
    Posts

    236

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman82 View Post
    Wow. If you don't get that Humility is awesome in Landstill, I don't get why you play the deck.
    Elspeth? Standstil? TOOOOOOONS OF REMOVALS which s why the deck is so good vs aggressive and aggrocontrol decks?!? Non just for humility, otherwise play MWC it's better.
    Elspeth sucks. She's only good when something like Humility is in play. Decree sucks. It's so mana-intensive that it's more unrealistic to depend on that then Humility. Decree only becomes good when Humility is out. Manlands suck because Wasteland is everywhere and so is Swords. Humility makes your manlands better than every creature your opponent casts. Landstill is such an awkward deck, it needs to play something as overwhelming to the board state as Humility. I have literally never lost a game once Humility resolved against a creature-based deck. I'm not even exaggerating. The only problem with Humility is that it costs four. Firespout obviously gains value when Humility is out, as well.
    If you state that Elspeth sucks and decree is only good with humility out, then it's probably you that need to ask yourself if you got any idea of how to play landstill. The latter is capabe to make you abuse of early standstills which is your main draw engine, the former keeps the board forcing opponents to overextend and that's when your x:1 removals have a chance and a sense to work. Humility is no token-producer, no wincondition, no better board keeper than elspeth. If you're able to lose a game with Elspeth in play either you were too far behind and in any case you would've lost, or maybe you have built the deck uncorrectly, or maybe you have done some play mistakes.. You state that you never lost a game with humility out vs a creature based deck. Well man, we need to win matches, non just games.

    However, I'm not stating that humility is crap. It's still a bomb, if taken in itself. I do love that card and it's not without complain I left it aside. But a card can be good on its own, and then completely unusable in the format. That's because she MUST stick on the board for it to actually do something;against faster aggros, either it comes down to late, or post sb gets gripped away (1:1 trade? say it to a progenitus on the other side of the field!); against aggocontrol decks, you should be able to win with or without humility, elspeth wins alone (if you're not able, then change deck). and so on. It's not that humility is crap, it's that the meta is too fast for it to become relevant, and that you should simply win creature-based decks without humility, because elspeth has so much synergyes with the rest of the deck that you totally neglect, and furthermore the deck is designed to have a positive aggro MU, whether you play humility or not. Also:
    - delaying a problem is not resolving a problem.
    - a card that does not improve the merfolk MU is sensless.

    I say: try to focus on elspeth and play without humility. The sensation of "easy win" with humility may be just a sign of its redundancy. However, I find silly that anyone is actually trying to discredit Elspeth nowadays...

    While we're on the topic, Wrath is not better than Humility. Humility singlehandedly takes a deck with the worst win conditions in the format and makes them the best. Wrath just temporarily clears the board. If you have any idea how to play Magic, Humility pretty much does the same thing as Wrath of God while continuing to make your win conditions better. Firespout isn't even better than Wrath of God, it's just cheaper. The reason I run Firespout is because it's largely for the same decks Wrath of God is for and has excellent synergy with Humility which is better than both. Who cares about Krosan Grip or whatever removal they may bring in for it? You stopped playing sideboard cards that improved matchups, too? It's only a one-for-one trade. Who cares?
    If you are just able to read, Humility and Wrath of God DON'T pretty much do the same thing. The only sensed comparison is between Humility and Elspeth, and no doubt my choice will go to Elspeth in the everfastening meta. But I don't bother if you play humility again. If you'd just take the pain to play without humility, you'll see that you lose little to no synergyes and save 2 slots. We don't need hyper-redundancy, redundancy is just fine. But please don't say bullshits like Elspeth is crap and decree is crap...

    EDIT#1: Also, I don't mean to be the best landstill player of the world. This cannot be. But at least, if people better than me and you at playing landstill more or less don't play humility anymore, than you should ask yourself: "can it be the case that I am absolutely and without any doubt right ont this matter"? Not to say you're wrong, just to be less "sure".

    EDIT#2: I think my side of the querelle can be expressed as such: you certainly can play humility, but if you test without, you'll discover that you don't need to play humility.
    Last edited by gustha; 03-06-2010 at 04:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986
    Sorry for the confusion, and there is always the strong possibility of me being wrong in alot of cases. I am not always right; just most of the time. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by rockout
    Oh my god get to the point. Both of you.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)