@ rsaunder;
I never resolved a relevant humilityWhy wouldn't you change the Humilities maindeck with WoG's? I also like Humility, just wanted to know your opinion.I wouldn't change the MB.
I'm running this list atm with pretty good succes;
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Island
3 Plains
1 Scrubland
1 Underground Sea
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Vindicate
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
3 Brainstorm
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Path to Exile
2 Humility
3 Elspeth, Knight Errant
SB
4 Counterbalance
3 Meddling Mage
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Extirpate
2 Relic of Progenitus
Idea is to play anti creature maindeck and have a very combo/graveyard orientated sideboard. Against most combo decks you can board in almost your entire board. Even kitchen Finks are better than most cards in your maindeck cause of the beatdown aspect they bring alongside the Meddling Mages.
Things I'm not sure about;
- 3 Elspeth (best card in the deck. Period), maybe 1 DoJ is better but I personally find this card uber uber slow in the current meta. Or maybe Jace nr2?
- 4 Standstill. Maybe 1 of them can be Jace nr2, Brainstorm nr 4 (probably not with 3 SdT's) or Counterspell / Spell Snare nr 4.
Any idea's?
Last edited by melie; 03-22-2010 at 09:00 AM.
They're so strong on paper now, really, and only good game one. I really want something in the MB to drop early on that'll protect me from Iona and Progenitus for the rest of the game, since I don't have any good way to remove it. I'm not sure how overrated that is, and I definitely need to test it more and I would really like a better answer, but for the time being this is looking solid.
Does anyone have like a list of cards made that can deal with Iona on white, Inkwell, or progenitus? There has to be a good non-white catch all out there.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
After testing I found Guilded Drake is mvp. After that you have Nevinyrral’s Disk (to slow) and the random black sac spells (have to get black on the first 2 turns or they don't do anything. Also not that great against Progenitus if they stick another guy).
EDIT:: I know realise it targets.. Fail by me. Tested it with sharpie on land proxie and actually thought it didn't target..
Last edited by melie; 03-21-2010 at 11:22 AM.
When Gilded Drake enters the battlefield, exchange control of Gilded Drake and up to one target creature an opponent controls.
So yeah it's not only "not that great" against Progenitus. It does nothing. Same goes for Inkwell and other Shroud-dudes.
Drake doesn't hit Inkwell or Prog because it's targeted. Or am I mistaken?
Even if you get Iona with it, you're still largely shut off and they can combat it better than you can, so drake seems weak.
EDIT: Guess who beat me to it...
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
Wow.. Epic fail on my part.. That's the problem with thinking you know what a card does + sharpie on land proxies..
Juxtapose on the other hand doesn't target but costs 4 so probably to slow.
I think black sac removal is still the way to go. Only problem is the commitment to black in the early turns + that it sends them to the graveyard, ready to be recurred once again. Maybe Ensnaring Bridge for stalling? It doesn't stop Iona's effect but might give you time to set up your mana base for your black sac removal / Jace 2.0 / Nev's Disk.
Also Porphyry Nodes is pretty good against anything not "Iona naming white" (same goes for Tariff, but much more narrow). The Nodes are not to bad against many other decks either, it only is incredibly un synergistic with Elspeth/DoJ...
But actually I'm not that afraid of Progenitus. The Natural Order doesn't come in the first few turns of the game and after that you'll be able to either counter it or stick a WoG/Humility (a 1/1 Progenitus is THE ultimate Humility imho :)) Against reanimator normal graveyard hate seems pretty good. The Show and Tell back up plan has the same weaknesses as Natural Order against us so a good anti graveyard SB should get you a long way I think. Also Karakas stays very techie.
I've been toying around a lot with Landstill the past two weeks, and I think this list is very strong in the current meta.
UWr Landstill
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Path to Exile
1 Ajani Vengeant
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Humility
1 Engineered Explosives
SB:
4 Lightning Helix
3 Counterbalance
3 Meddling Mage
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Aura of Silence
----
One reason I like this list is that it replaces Elspeth with Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek. Elspeth is a great card. However, I think Thopter Foundry is better, even with the drawback of requiring a second card to work properly. Elspeth will not come down and win you the game against Zoo when you are at three life halfway through the game. Thopter Foundry will. Elspeth can't race Progenitus. Thopter Foundry can. Elspeth can't be recurred if you're forced to discard it. Thopter Foundry can be.
There's a lot of other places where it's better, but I think, at the very least, you should all test it.
Most importantly, though, it can be fetched with Enlightened Tutor. Tutor also makes the deck a lot more consistent. Running six Standstill is good, as you can punish people for not putting a threat on the table turn one or two many more games than you could otherwise. If they're playing out threats, it turns into a win condition, removal, or board control. Either way, you're okay with seeing it.
Running six Swords is really good, especially when you can grab Standstill as consistently as this deck will. The four lightning Helixes are also really good. With ten pieces of spot removal, there is no need to play any sweepers, as sweepers themselves are only good against a few decks as is.
Only running FoW and Spell Pierce has worked very well for me. With six swords and the eventual lifegain from Foundry, you shouldn't have to worry about countering many, if any, creatures. Yes, Spell Pierce can be terrible in the late-game, but we already win the late-game, so I don't see where that matters. Also, Ajani can make Spell Pierce relevant in the mid- and late-game, as well, although that doesn't happen often enough to be very relevant.
In short, find some time to test Enlightened Tutor and Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek in place of Elspeth and a few other cards. It works or, at least, it has worked for me.
I've been tinkering around with Thop Foundry for a while also but found it a bit to gimmicky. The reasons you give to play it don't bother me that much. Against Zoo Finks and a crap load of removal seems to be enough for me and Progenitus doesn't bother me all that much to be honest. Not saying I totally don't like it but I'm just not that big a fan (anymore) of a tutor list. The problem arises when they destroy/counter the bullet you fetch. This sets you back so much in time and card disadvantage it's not pretty. I see your list can recur with the Ruins but this is also very very time consuming.
Also, why play Crucible and no wasteland? If I would play this list I would take out 1 Cruc and 1 Shackles for 2 extre EE. Also 17 blue count is a little on the low side fo rmy taste.
If you are running tutors, it is better than Elspeth. I'm not going to assert anything more than that. It's hardly something everyone should run out and include in their decks, but it is worth testing.I've been tinkering around with Thop Foundry for a while also but found it a bit to gimmicky. The reasons you give to play it don't bother me that much. Against Zoo Finks and a crap load of removal seems to be enough for me and Progenitus doesn't bother me all that much to be honest. Not saying I totally don't like it but I'm just not that big a fan (anymore) of a tutor list.
Crucible, Humility, Tolaria West, and Shackles are flex slots. They keep getting switched in and out for a lot of different things.Also, why play Crucible and no wasteland?
The blue count is 19, as Foundry is blue. I'd like it to be twenty, and during some rotations of the flex slot, it is, but 19 does work.Also 17 blue count is a little on the low side for my taste.
I can see where you're coming from, but I have a tendency to get screwed by Meddling Mage. Mostly the meta I play in.I really like me some 6 STPs myself, but make sure you go 4 STP/2PtE.
Humility is good. It's not ridiculously broken or anything, but it is good. Of the four cards currently in the flex slots, it is the one I'd be least likely to cut.I'd probably also go:
-1 Humility, -1 Foundry, -1 ET
+2 Firespout +1 EE
I've never liked Firespout, but I could certainly see dropping something for a second EE.
Humility lets a deck that otherwise plays a fair game in an unfair format play an unfair game. Right now, since no one runs MB 4cc enchantment removal and creatures are getting bigger and less dense, it seems silly not to run them. They're not necessarily in with the sacred 7 removal slots (4 STP, 3EE), but they're just solid at the moment.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
I was helping a friend brainstorm on one of the Isochron Scepter decks. He ended up going Mono-White. But it wasn't until I saw the Top 6 Landstill build from 13.4 Indianapolis 5K that it hit me that Isochron Scepter could work quite well in a Landstill build.
I made some personal preference changes to the deck by adding more Planeswalkers (I just love playing those Jaces). We did a few hours of testing yesterday with a friend through MWS against different decks. Against most decks its just game over when I resolved a Scepter with Orim's Chant. Even a Scepter with Counterspell gave a lot of time to work on defences as the opponent has to be able to try and cast two spells to be able to resolve one of them (only to run into a Swords or Counterspell from hand).
We didn't test with Sideboard yet, but I'm toying around with boarding the Scepters out against Green decks (Zoo etc) who board in Krosan Grips. I also briefly tested a Cunning Wish version but found it to be a bit "clunky/slow". Of course you get more options to put under Scepter that way.
UWr ScepterStill
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Dust Bowl
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Academy Ruins
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
2 Elspeth, the Knight-Errant
1 Ajani Vengeant
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Isochron Scepter
2 Orim's Chant
2 Fire/Ice
Its nice to get some new ideas for Landstill (like the ThoperStill ^^).
What matchups does something like that engine improve? The copies still get hit by CB and Iona, you lose access to mass removal and spell snare and are stuck with quite a few mediocre instants MB (fire//ice and chant). Also, the copies don't get around your own standstills. There really isn't much synergy to be had here.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
Does that really matter, though? If you have Chant on a stick, you don't need to draw 3 cards. If you have removal, machine gun their board then cast Ancestral. If you have a Counterspell, clear the board, cast Standstill and draw three, then counter whatever they played.There really isn't much synergy to be had here.
"Attack with Order of the Ebon Hand."
"K, block with Jotun Grunt?"
"It has pro white."
"Swords?"
"It still has pro white."
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I've always liked scepter, recurring your spells is obviously powerful, and it's possible there is a deck out there that it would really fit into, but I don't think Landstill is that deck.
On top of the obvious lack of synergy with Landstill's general strategy, it opens you up to getting 2 for 1nd, it's an absolutely dead card in top-deck mode, and it encourages playing other bad cards.
Yeah, so, I got absolutely massacred today at GYGO at Michigan, playing my UWr build and finishing an abysmal 0-3-1, the worst record that I have finished in any tournament. Long time to reflect on the way home as my friend was passed out in the car. First of all, spending 14 hours & wasting $40 in gas and entry will do that to you.
Way too many Jotun Grunts, Rhox War Monks, Trygon Predators today to make Firespout close to effective. I found myself having to do alternate boarding plans to not have dead draws, and SDT spun like a pro, giving me 14 lands total in one of the games for my ass-raping in R2. No Wrath, no Humility at all against NO-Pro in R3. Also, I'm losing now to even bad Merfolk decks for some reason, I don't know what's going on. Slightly frustrated with the deck right now, it just seems like it's trying to do too much right now and I find so many 2-of's here, and 1-of's here. Playing again tomorrow at a slightly less hostile metagame, which I'm going to revive the black splash for (should be no Reanimator, to my knowledge, so it could be safe). Maybe it will get better results.
I did, however, get to meet various Sourcers, including Hitman82, which was cool. If anyone is playing the red splash, how has it been treating you?
Delver enthusiast and avid practitioner of blind flipsmanship.
Follow me on Twitter: @AllSunsDawn
Yeah, so, I got absolutely massacred today at GYGO at Michigan, playing my UWr build and finishing an abysmal 0-3-1, the worst record that I have finished in any tournament. Long time to reflect on the way home as my friend was passed out in the car. First of all, spending 14 hours & wasting $40 in gas and entry will do that to you.
Way too many Jotun Grunts, Rhox War Monks, Trygon Predators today to make Firespout close to effective. I found myself having to do alternate boarding plans to not have dead draws, and SDT spun like a pro, giving me 14 lands total in one of the games for my ass-raping in R2. No Wrath, no Humility at all against NO-Pro in R3. Also, I'm losing now to even bad Merfolk decks for some reason, I don't know what's going on. Slightly frustrated with the deck right now, it just seems like it's trying to do too much right now and I find so many 2-of's here, and 1-of's here. Playing again tomorrow at a slightly less hostile metagame, which I'm going to revive the black splash for (should be no Reanimator, to my knowledge, so it could be safe). Maybe it will get better results.
I did, however, get to meet various Sourcers, including Hitman82, which was cool. If anyone is playing the red splash, how has it been treating you?
Delver enthusiast and avid practitioner of blind flipsmanship.
Follow me on Twitter: @AllSunsDawn
You are not alone. I had terrible troubles this weekend, with my UWb build:
Without counterbalance
R1: Pro bant 1-0. 1-0-0.
R2: Merfolks 1-0. 2-0-0
R3: Pox 0-1. 2-0-1.
R4: Burn 2-1. 3-0-1
With counterbalance
R1: White stax 1-1. 0-1-0
R2: Brown stax 0-2. 0-1-1
R3: Dreadstill 2-0. 1-1-1
R4: Goblins 1-2. 1-1-2.
Colour screw was almost ever present.
I think it had more to deal with the current meta and landstills position in it rather then average player skill of a tournament. Landstill's roll in the current meta is basicly non-exhistent because there are creature based decks that basicly act the same way in which landstill tries to control the game, but simply put more aggressive and alot more efficient.
To prove my point Mark Sun who just did shitty at gygo also top8'd the mean deck open in the last month or so. I on the other hand finished 2-3 drop at the meandeck open when I went, but top4'd the last time I played at gygo.
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