[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[RogueMTG]

I think it had more to deal with the current meta and landstills position in it rather then average player skill of a tournament. Landstill's roll in the current meta is basicly non-exhistent because there are creature based decks that basicly act the same way in which landstill tries to control the game, but simply put more aggressive and alot more efficient.

To prove my point Mark Sun who just did shitty at gygo also top8'd the mean deck open in the last month or so. I on the other hand finished 2-3 drop at the meandeck open when I went, but top4'd the last time I played at gygo.

OR, it could be, you know, this:

...Way too many Jotun Grunts, Rhox War Monks, Trygon Predators today to make Firespout close to effective...

You should be crushing any decks that play Grunts, War Monks or Predators.

But I don't play Firespout, so maybe that has something to do with it. <3 Wrath.

[mossivo1986]

That probobly has alittle to do with it. I imagine 2 main deck slots were a big part of the reason he finished 0-3-1 or something of that nature.

[Mark Sun]

@ 1mpulse: Joel is correct; my previous statement was not to be taken as any type of insult towards the play skill of the group at GYGO; I've been there before and I have played at that store before, and there are a lot of people that I know are good players. I am by no means the best player in the world and wouldn't say something asinine like that.

1 Ajani V, 2 Firespout, 3 Helix main was a terrible choice to bring to that tournament, as each of those cards became incredibly narrow against that field. There were a lot of times where they would play a Grunt or War Monk, and I would have a Helix in my hand, and so forth. Humilty hardly stuck post-board, as I was forced to keep those in, and as I expected, those bit the dust pretty quickly. Generally, more StP effects, less cute bullshit for the next attempt. I am okay with cutting Firespouts for Wraths and Helixes for StP effects, that will rape the Counterbalance plan which can be ditched in the SB. Lots of renovating to do.

Wraths and Counterspells this time, as I agreed with Paul (Hitman82), the format is too random right now to fully rely on Spell Snare and FS. Btw, Jace 2.0 was probably one of the reasons that I didn't pan out as I hoped. He was in the MD for Iona protection (along with Karakas), but now that I've had a chance to play a second tournament with him, this guy probably isn't worth it. Jace 2.0 will never replace FoF, which I missed dearly. Those who have tested him, feel free to let us know your thoughts on him, but I would not recommend him to people who want to make cuts to include him in their lists. I'd rather punt the Reanimator matchup each time with my lonely Karakas, then have to miss out digging 5 cards deep when I desperately need it. Outside of that, he's strictly win-more (not to mentioned completely cold to CounterTop anyways, SDT > Fateseal).

[mossivo1986]

If you play my old list you will literally eat bant lists alive.

[Mark Sun]

If you play my old list you will literally eat bant lists alive.

I might, sexy, just for you

Still like that list, although I probably only have a slightly outdated one on MWS.

[Hitman82]

While I believe Landstill should be designed with a mainboard for dominating creature decks, if you want to play a version that's more versatile and less dominating against creature decks, here's what I would play.

4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
2 Cunning Wish
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wrath of God
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Decree of Justice
1 Crucible of Worlds

3 Island
3 Plains
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins

3 Planar Void
4 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Curfew
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Extirpate
1 Dismantling Blow
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Chalice of the Void

Morbid - I strongly disagree that Tolaria West and Karakas is worth running. Unless you're doing something else early in the game to get you to the point where you have Karakas, you're just going to get blown out with your two singletons somewhere in your deck. That's no kind of reliable strategy and it will cost you in other matchups, like Goblins, where they play mana denial and you have Karakas or Tolaria West in your hand. Just have your few outs to Reanimator in the Wish board and call it a day. Reanimator sucks and it'll lose popularity soon, especially with the prices increasing all the time. Landstill's just a dog to Reanimator, oh well. I'd rather win the infinite Zoo and Merfolk matchups around than the sparse Reanimator ones here and there. The format revolves around the Zoo-Counterbalance-Merfolk dynamic. Those are the decks you should worry about. Except for Merfolk, this list is still good against those decks. If you play my red version, it's good against all three, but you're down on red right now. Ajani, Lightning Helix and anything else red isn't worth playing. Firespout is amazing right now though and is definitely worth playing. Red can give you some sideboard options like R.E.B. but I really doubt you would ever need that with this deck. I can't actually think of a deck I want R.E.B. against beside Merfolk but you already win that match with my red splash version. For me, the difficulty in deciding which splash to play is whether you want a stronger mainboard or stronger sideboard. I always choose a stronger mainboard. Black offers you some awesome sideboard cards, namely Planar Void, but Red offers you a practical win against most of the format (Zoo and Merfolk). That's my opinion; take it for what it's worth.

For reference, my red version is:

4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Humility
2 Firespout
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Decree of Justice
1 Crucible of Worlds

3 Island
3 Plains
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
4 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins

Remember that even though Reanimator and Storm are popular right now there was only one copy of each deck at GYGO. See what I mean? Even if the deck is good, you don't necessarily have to prepare for it because it will be a minority to decks like Counterbalance, Zoo and Merfolk which there were several of each of those at GYGO. I still suggest the red splash right not unless Merfolk starts getting replaced by Storm, Dredge or Reanimator, in which case you shouldn't be playing Landstill anymore anyway.

[mossivo1986]

Like Paul said,
You dont have to prepare for every deck at a tournament, because you are going to dodge match-ups. Some match-ups you are a dog to. Dredge, reanimator, tes, etc. etc. but what you can improve on is making sure your good matchups are fantastic ones and addressing the clearly bad ones out of the board. Thats all that landstill CAN and SHOULD do. Landstill is a fair deck. It doesn't use unfair cards really besides perhaps for Humility which costs 4 making it reasonably a fair card.

[rsaunder]

@Morbid: Jace 2.0 has a massive learning curve, which I've learned that hard way a few times. Your example is a tad obvious though, you should NOT be fate sealing them if they're in anything but topdeck mode. Otherwise it's better not to look at him as a kill condition and brainstorm every turn and get some massive CA. That's generally the best strategy when you dont need his bounce. In fact, my jaces rarely get bigger than 3. I just bumped up to two and am very happy with the choice. He's such a bomb: better where FOF is amazing and proactive where you need it. As an iona answer he's fine, but I think I'd still run him without that threat at this point.

Karakas and Tolaria west is absolute jank man. Like... eww. So convoluted and hurts your manabase with 2 weak lands for such a small problem. You're better off just boarding more heavily, which is about where I am for the reanimator matchup.

@Firespout: I haven't needed it much. Keeping it MB imo is just pre-boarding against aggro, much like keeping a couple negates MB could be a good call sometimes. With 7 STP effects MB and Ajani I haven't had ANY trouble with merfolk or zoo.

[mossivo1986]

I dont understand how Jace 2.0 could possibly have a massive learning curve. Cast, unsommon, bs.bs.bs.bs.bs.bs. etc. unsummon again if you need to wait till it dies and win through pure attrition through jace.

[Coetzee]

What sort of MD+SB would you recommend for a meta that looks someting like tihis:

Bant Survival
Eva Green
Meat Hooks
Merfolk
Reanimator
Faeries
Zoo
Green Chalice aggro

Just started to to do some minor testing with a list close to the one Morbid posted a few pages back, so far i have beaten Zoo a couple of times quite easily but Eva Green just crushed me.

[rsaunder]

I dont understand how Jace 2.0 could possibly have a massive learning curve. Cast, unsommon, bs.bs.bs.bs.bs.bs. etc. unsummon again if you need to wait till it dies and win through pure attrition through jace.

Well fine, that's it 90% of the time. In some matchups and at some times the fate seal trick is deadly, you just have to know when to use it.

Coetzee: Humility and P2E would ruin most of that meta coupled with EE.

[klaus]

A friend of mine recently won a local tourney with a rather interesting list that I wanna share with you (no Elspeth's, no Counterspells, no Humilities, no Paths to Exile, and well no "real" Standstills). I'm not down with all his choices but I find the deck pretty innovative and will test a bastardized version in the near future.
Sure, it does have some weak spots - its combo MU is far from being brilliant and non basic hate.dec can be an issue but beyond that I find it to be a decent meta deck that can just plow through certain fields (Aggro (barring Zoo, maybe), Aggro control and Control).

"CAB - Jace Control"

3 Jace the Mindsculptor
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
2 Forbid ------------------------------------------------------------------------- should probably be CS
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Firespout
4 Maze of Ith ------------------------------------------- probably the most confusing choice - I actually never ever considered Maze and even if I did play it I'd never go up to 4! Those are land 25-29 though, so he really uses them as uncounterable creature hate.
4 Treasure Hunt -------------------------------------------------- could easily be Standstill - he was really happy with it though. I'd try to find some room for 1-2 Tops to improve the odds of 1 for 3ing.
1 The Abyss -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I kind of like that choice.
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Engineered Explosives ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd probably cut 1 for an Enlightened Tutor

3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Tropical Island ---------------------------------- was employed merely to enhance Firespout (it's not like you need EE@ 5..)
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins

Sideboard:
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Extirpate
1 Forbid
1 Pulse of the Fields
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Spell Pierce
1 Wing Shards
1 Wrath of God

---
Feel free to rip that shaz apart.
---
Edit: So this is what I'd it adjust to:

3 Jace the Mindsculptor
2 Ajani Vengeant
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
3 Firespout
3 Maze of Ith
3 Treasure Hunt
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 The Abyss
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins

Sideboard:
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Spell Pierce
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Krosan Grip ---------------------- I know there's just 1 Tropical in the MD, but most of the MUs you'd side Grip in don't play Wasteland anyway (CounterTop, Enchantress, Faerie Stompy, Control etc..)

[johanessen]

That list is plenty of suboptimal card choices.

[Elf_Ascetic]

I've played with The Abyss for a time, but it's really not suited for an agressive metagame with Zoo, Goblins, Merfolk and Quasali Pridemage. I see no more reason to play The Abyss over Humilty, Moat or Wrath of God. I doubt that Treasure Hunt is better then standstill. It's an interesting list however, thanks for sharing.Your version is much better, but my points are still valid.

Thereby, Elspeth > Jace 2.0 > Ajani Vengeant.

[klaus]

@ Coetzee:

UWr Landstill appears to be pretty good for your meta. The 2 superb cards that the red splash gives you are Firespout and REB - let's take a look:

Bant Survival:
Firespout is actually mediocre, not killing Goyf and Warmonk sucks. However, it does hit Hierarchs, Teegs, Pridemages as well as Kira, Cliques and Sprites (if you add a singleton Tropical, which I'm currently testing)

Eva Green:
Wrath>Firespout, due to Tombstalker and Goyf.
REB is useless, but 7 STP effects and a lowered curve should make this MU quite winnable.

Meat Hooks, Merfolk:
both, Firespout and REB are awesome here.

Reanimator:
Firespout is useless, but turn 1 REB disruption will be very helpful (Carefulstudy, Mystical Tutor, Show'n'Tell)

Faeries:
REB is very cool here, Firespout can be cool if you have that Tropical and they don't waste it right away.


Zoo:
Firespout > Wrath - quick removal is crucial in this MU

Green Chalice aggro:
This MU is very unpredictable: they can turn 1 Spawnwrithe you - slam down Chalice or Trini turn 1 and just destroy you, or the game might go back and forth and then out of nowhere they 'll just N. Order ftw.
Obviously REB is useless, but Firespout will do its job (hitting Spawnwrithes, Beast tokens, Elephant tokens, Spiritguides etc..).
---
Edit: there's a sample draft on page 192 - it would need adjusting though, since your meta does not seem to be combo-infested. Meaning it's make sense to cut 2 Tops and 3 SB CBs. Those slots should be occupied by more creature hate - your meta actually screams for humility I could see you adding 1-2 to the MD and an additional Firespout and 1 Path to the SB.

[arebennian]

Gideon Jura 3ww
Planeswalker - Gideon Mythic Rare
[+2]: During target opponent's next turn, creatures that player controls attack Gideon Jura if able.
[-2]: Destroy target tapped creature.
[0]: Until end of turn, Gideon Jura becomes a 6/6 Human Soldier creature that's still a planeswalker. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
Starting Loyalty = 6
Illus. Aleksi Briclot #21/248



Thoughts on this guy in a Landstill shell...
Better/worse than Elspeth?
Replacement or in addition to?

[daPaule]

Gideon Jura 3ww
Planeswalker - Gideon Mythic Rare
[+2]: During target opponent's next turn, creatures that player controls attack Gideon Jura if able.
[-2]: Destroy target tapped creature.
[0]: Until end of turn, Gideon Jura becomes a 6/6 Human Soldier creature that's still a planeswalker. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
Starting Loyalty = 6
Illus. Aleksi Briclot #21/248



Thoughts on this guy in a Landstill shell...
Better/worse than Elspeth?
Replacement or in addition to?

I don't see any use of it, it's an extremely overcosted Fog or Death Stroke unless the last ability for [0] should be "Until the beginning of your next turn" or "you can use this ability everytime you could play an instant".
Using the first one will result in him (her ?) dying, the 2nd is Death Stroke whereas you could play wrath and kill all opposing creatures for even 1 mana less and the 3rd exalted angel at least has evasion ;-)
So it's a combination of 3 cards in one, may thin the maindeck, but none of the three are played anyway.

[ultimoman]

I think Gideon could have his uses but it depends on the build. I'll have to test him and see.

On another note, it seems more players are not using Cunning Wish anymore (A. Goldmane as well). Is it just not up to par anymore in the meta?

Sorry I'm a bit out of the loop, my computer was down for awhile.

[Julian23]

I'm counting the days till Marius Hausmann (wasteland) posts his UWb "Landstill Revolutions" list he's most recently started crashing tournaments with.

[ultimoman]

Recent notes through playtesting:

1. DoJ doesn't seem as good as it used to be. Its too slow in today's meta. I still feel its worth using but for most I don't think 3 of is a good idea. 2 is pushing it even but can be alright. 1 is fine, at least for me.

2. Mishra's Factory...also is not what it used to be. Perhaps its because of the power creep but its just not performing up to expectations anymore. I usually have to pay mana just to have it chump block and die, or just get hit with a swords, path, etc. Most often though it just gets hit with a Waste and they continue to beat face with their own man-lands or something else. Its too vulnerable and not strong enough from what I'm seeing.

This could all just be bad luck but it happens often and seems to be happening more and more. Anyone else dealing with this? I'm tempted to just take out the Factories and throw in more Wastelands. Example: If I play Standstill its because I have board position with a Factory or two, but then they end up dropping 1 or more manlands to make things difficult. A Wasteland or two soon follows and then I have to break my own Standstill in order to survive temporarily. Same scenario but I have Wastelands out. I destroy their manlands and their Wastelands are rendered useless (besides against duals of course but that can be dealt with at times). An opposing DoJ can be a problem then, but thats rather rare. With Landstill no longer being listed as a DtB, seeing DoJ cycled on the other side of the table is even rarer and there are ways around that.
Basically I'm thinking of going up to 3 or 4 Wastelands by taking out the Factories, or at least take out 2 out of the 3. This would be for more defensive purposes of course and could help a decent amount I think. I very rarely get the chance to have out both Standstill and the Factories to deal decent damage, if any. They end up getting wasted (literally) or outnumbered by other man-lands.

Hope my post isn't confusing! Just some things I've noticed throughout alot of testing. Thoughts?