[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[klaus]

I also like the list, but perhaps I have just been a big supporter of Elspeth, to cut her completly. I dunno what I should cut for her, perhaps the 4th ee?

yep, imo that's definitely an option.

[gustha]

Draw/Filter:
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
3 Jace 2.0
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Removal:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Path to Exile
3 Firespout
4 Engineered Explosives

Counter Suite:
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare

Land:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island*
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins


* improves Firespout, EE and adds Grip, which is mostly needed against decks w/o mana denial (read: CB-Top, Enchantress,Thopter-Foundry)

SB:
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Rhox Warmonk (yeah, danger of cool things)
3 Spell Pierce

Good to see you post again here! Besideds the fact that I almost don't play magic anymore (I really have no time... ), I've stepped back from speedstill towards a more linear and classic approach (list below). With the banning of MT combo is not obviously dead, but a) we should handle reanimator better b) storm combo becomes even more skill intensive, that either you walk into a good combo player and lose anyway, either you are paired with a mediocre combo player and you have some chances to beat him, either the deck focuses on explosiveness over consistency and we should have a chance to handle it like belcher, say. (These are rough considerations, I know. Let's just pretend for the sake of arguments they are true.) If these considerations are true, and aggro/aggrocontrol decks take the most part of the meta (I'm speaking at least of my portion of Italy), then a twist back to speedstill should be considered (although I have to guard from rock and the like...).
Regarding your list, and given the tests I had with mine, I have to admit I don't like top anymore. Jace's brainstorm ability practically nullifies the influence of top on your topdecks, and however the deck points at card advantage more than anything (in testing, I substituted top with 2 dojs and never looked back). I think I'll try to squeeze some cc4 bomb in, such as:
-1 path
-2 top
-1 EE
+2 elspeth
+2 humility,
rearranging a bit the manabase. And i'd probably substitute the spell pierces with negates in the sb.
That's because progenitus is still a concern, and if more s&t decks show up, it's good to have humility with us. On Elspeth's topic, I should agree that jace 2.0 somehow takes the slots of the knight errant.

__________
Here's the list I'm curently testing:
4 BS
4 SStill
3 Jace 2.0

3 doj
2 elspeth

4 fow
3 CS
3 SSnare

4 stp
3 EE
2 humility
2 wrath of god

24 mixed lands w/ no land denial nor academy ruins

Really standard one, and I have yet to consider the argument fof/jace 2.0. And I want some path to exile in the mix.

[Shawn]

I played UW landstill at the St. Louis 5k yesterday. I started off 3-0, then things started to fall apart. This probably had something to due with me not getting any sleep since 10 am the previous day. My deck was pretty amazing, but I was not starting game two of round four. I ran straight UW, no Wish, and no Jaces. I had two that I was thinking about playing, but I put FoF back in and it definitely was the right call.

[Patrick]

I played a Cunning Wish list yesterday at a 30 man GPT. 3 of my 5 opponents had at least 2 copies of Jace, the Mind Sculptor in their deck. This made my Jace such a sub-par card it was embarrassing. Jace won me a single game, while wasting time protecting him or being unable to play him because of opposing Jaces easily cost me 2 games. He's almost certainly becoming the 3rd Fact or Fiction and I'm going to look for another win condition, either a second Elspeth or Celestial Collonade.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

I've been running Jace 2.0 as a 2-of for a while now and was impressed 95% of the time he showed up, which recently led me to add a third copy.
I can't emphasize his insane power level enough, though it definitely depends on the shell you build around him.
As some of you will know, I've stuck with the Speedstill approach ever since PtE became legal and never looked back. Jace 1.0 was a great replacement for FoF then (here's an early UWB version: CLICK) and Jace 2.0 takes that baby to yet another level. I just dig the fact that the amount of spotremoval makes it more than likely that you'll BS into cheap solutions and keep the board clean, even if you're light on mana.
Collaborating with Mr. Kötter, who has been quite successful with a creative Jace control deck, boasting a full playset as its sole wincon [!] (here's the primer: CLICK) inspired some changes, including the current experiment of cutting both Elspeths... More often than not I'd rather have drawn a Jace - simple as that. I'm aware of the fact that this move results in an even slower clock but the benefitsoutweigh that aspect. The pros for that change include: getting rid of the Knight's Errant ultimately nullifies your opponent's creature removal [I've also come to the strategy to activate Factory almost exclusively if Standstill is "guarding" it]. Plus never needing WW is a bonus, too, so is a a slightly lower curve, but let's cut to the chase - here's my current list:

Draw/Filter:
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
3 Jace 2.0
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Removal:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Path to Exile
3 Firespout
4 Engineered Explosives

Counter Suite:
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare

Land:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island*
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins


* improves Firespout, EE and adds Grip, which is mostly needed against decks w/o mana denial (read: CB-Top, Enchantress,Thopter-Foundry)

SB:
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Rhox Warmonk (yeah, danger of cool things)
3 Spell Pierce

There's more to say about the ideas behind many card choices, but I'm kinda busy right now :-( but fire away if you're "unhappy" with the concept and I'll be happy to fire back asap ;-)

Hi Jashar, nice to see you're getting on the Jace bandwagon. That card is just insane. The list looks really good, especially the full set of EEs. I'd just replace the forth Tundra with a second Volcanic (no need for so much white any more withour Elspeth and that way the triple Firespout is supported better).

[magicplaya10]

I played a Cunning Wish list yesterday at a 30 man GPT. 3 of my 5 opponents had at least 2 copies of Jace, the Mind Sculptor in their deck. This made my Jace such a sub-par card it was embarrassing. Jace won me a single game, while wasting time protecting him or being unable to play him because of opposing Jaces easily cost me 2 games. He's almost certainly becoming the 3rd Fact or Fiction and I'm going to look for another win condition, either a second Elspeth or Celestial Collonade.

In my testing, Jace was always awesome when I cast it. He has always been great for me.

This is the list I am testing...

U/w Landstill

4 STP
2 PTE
3 WoG
1 Humility
2 Engineered Explosive
1 Decree of Justice
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Elspeth
4 Standstill
3 Fact or Fiction
2 Jace the MindRaper
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Tundra
4 Strand
2 Delta
2 Plains
3 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Factory

Yes its 61 Cards. The one thing I kind of want is more countermagic. I was thinking of figuring out how to add Spell Pierce or something. Also, I realize some of you might say that the number of win cons is too low. 1 Elspeth, 4 Factory, 2 Jace, 1 Eternal Drag, 1 Decree is kind of low, but I haven't had much of a problem.

Also the 2 Engineered Explosives are at two because A) I dont have a third, and B) it seems to be the right number. I can't really set it past 2, and I usually blow up aggro decks, which is a good match up, and friends with it. It does hit CB pretty well too. But I never really wanted more than 2...sometimes I don't really want to draw it.

What does your guys sideboard look like?

This is mine, so far. Its jank, I know.

SIDEBOARD:
1 Wrath of God
1 Humility
3 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Pithing Needle
3 Serenity
1 Disenchant
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Relic of Prog


Serenity is tech. The matches where you ever really want to blow up artifacts and enchantments are against Stax and Enchantress. It is boss against those decks. Needles are...fillers I guess. Good against Knight of the Reliquiry. Cannonist is for storm combo. and the extra removal is for the aggros. Was thinking about cutting the humility for another PTE in the board.

What do you guys think about Chalices in the board?

This deck crushes Aggro. I lost to a black/red deck that ran Siezes, Duresses, Hymns, Magus, etc. With Maindeck Helm of Obedience and Leyline of the Void.


Thoughts? Thanks!!!

[gustha]

2 Jace the MindRaper

Lol@that!
Interesting choice to pair FoF AND Jace 2.0, it looks more like a wincon now than adraw engine (I know hanni already said it! ) I'm just trying to squeeze some fof in the deck and I think -1 humility -1 elspeth could be the way to go, if I find room for another wrath (and atm I barely consider playing less than 3 jace). I don't think you need more MD countermagic, the MD package is solid. Interesting choice the full set of mishra and wasteland, it's long since I saw that config. As for the Sb, why are tou concerned to blow up things and have some combo hate in 6 different slots, when you can use aura of silence and simply have them all in 3? (Aura of silence blocks storm combo, denying free acceleration in the form of lotus petal, moxes etc.; and you don't need chalices). Of course, at least a couple of negate is needed (I don't think you need those 2 pithing needle).
Dismantling blow -> disenchant (doesn't fall under snare, covers the weak spot of cb, eventually generates CA).

[Kagehisa]

Pride of the Clouds UW

Creature : Elemental Cat
1/1

Pride of the Clouds gets +1/+1 for each other creature with flying on the battlefield.

Forecast — 2WU, Reveal Pride of the Clouds from your hand: Put a 1/1 white and blue Bird creature token with flying onto the battlefield. (Activate this ability only during your upkeep and only once each turn.)

[klaus]

I played a Cunning Wish list yesterday at a 30 man GPT. 3 of my 5 opponents had at least 2 copies of Jace, the Mind Sculptor in their deck. This made my Jace such a sub-par card it was embarrassing. Jace won me a single game, while wasting time protecting him or being unable to play him because of opposing Jaces easily cost me 2 games. He's almost certainly becoming the 3rd Fact or Fiction and I'm going to look for another win condition, either a second Elspeth or Celestial Collonade.

You dunnit wrong.
Any time your opponent has a Jace online, play yours asap or it'll most likely be gg rather soon.
In fact an opposing Jace does not keep you from playing yours, it forces you to do so.
More and more archetypes utilize that monster, which ultimately supports the argument for more Jaces in LS, because chances to get rid of a resolved Jace are really narrow, if you don't play Vindicate.

[Patrick]

My options to kill Jace are:

Cast Engineered Explosives with 4 colors of mana (4 Tundra, 1 Underground Sea, 1 Scrubland, 1 Plateau)
Cunning wish for Red Elemental Blast (Courtesy of Plateau)
Attack him with Factory (Colonnade if that works out)
Cycle Decree of Justice at him
Show him Elspeth is a better planeswalker.

I'm not usually too worried about killing my opponents Jace. I'm more upset that my opponent is actively blanking a win condition by playing a copy of it himself. This problem is also present with Elspeth, but she isn't nearly as popular as Jace. People like playing Jace and are cramming it into their decks not necessarily because it improves matchups, but because they want to play with the card. Telling people Jace isn't good in their deck doesn't change their minds, so I'm adapting my list. I want to lean much less on Planeswalkers as a win conditon, which is why I'm at 3 Decrees and and I want to go up to 4 manlands.

[magicplaya10]

Lol@that!
Interesting choice to pair FoF AND Jace 2.0, it looks more like a wincon now than adraw engine (I know hanni already said it! ) I'm just trying to squeeze some fof in the deck and I think -1 humility -1 elspeth could be the way to go, if I find room for another wrath (and atm I barely consider playing less than 3 jace). I don't think you need more MD countermagic, the MD package is solid. Interesting choice the full set of mishra and wasteland, it's long since I saw that config. As for the Sb, why are tou concerned to blow up things and have some combo hate in 6 different slots, when you can use aura of silence and simply have them all in 3? (Aura of silence blocks storm combo, denying free acceleration in the form of lotus petal, moxes etc.; and you don't need chalices). Of course, at least a couple of negate is needed (I don't think you need those 2 pithing needle).
Dismantling blow -> disenchant (doesn't fall under snare, covers the weak spot of cb, eventually generates CA).

Thanks that helped a whole lot! (Edit-I realize that sounds sarcastic, but it isn't. I mean truthfully your sideboard tech helped a lot. thanks for that!) Yea, my draw engine is nuts. Once I land one jace, I really dont wanna see anymore. So two seems fine with me.

I like the sideboard Aura of Silence. Thanks! I will use that. And Jace + Standstill is retarded good. I have killed quite a few people with Jace.

As for testing...
I beat Merfolk twice, two games a piece. I beat Elves, and Reanimator.

Lost to Mono Brown Stax...he drew Tangle Wire EVERY time he needed it... Never got to land the Serenities...he would drop sphere turns 1 and 2. It was rough.

[jazzykat]

JaceTM is why I am up to 4 REB's in the board of any deck packing red. He get's out of hand in about 2 turns or so. On a side note, can you bolt (and Kill Him) after just being cast when my opponent uses the +2 ability? If so, does it counter the ability?

[heroicraptor]

Putting the counters on is a cost, so no, it won't kill Jace.

[Hanni]

Any intelligent player is going to use a Planeswalker's ability immediately after it resolves, before passing priority. If they drop Jace and use the +2 ability, your Lightning Bolt is SOL.

AFAIK, the abilities of Planeswalker's are played at sorcery speed, so if an opponent does cast a Planeswaker and does not immediately use one if it's abilities before priority is passed, you could kill the Jace with a Lightning Bolt without him being able to ramp it with the +2 ability in response.

[Rico Suave]

My options to kill Jace are:

Cast Engineered Explosives with 4 colors of mana (4 Tundra, 1 Underground Sea, 1 Scrubland, 1 Plateau)
Cunning wish for Red Elemental Blast (Courtesy of Plateau)
Attack him with Factory (Colonnade if that works out)
Cycle Decree of Justice at him
Show him Elspeth is a better planeswalker.

I'm not usually too worried about killing my opponents Jace. I'm more upset that my opponent is actively blanking a win condition by playing a copy of it himself. This problem is also present with Elspeth, but she isn't nearly as popular as Jace. People like playing Jace and are cramming it into their decks not necessarily because it improves matchups, but because they want to play with the card. Telling people Jace isn't good in their deck doesn't change their minds, so I'm adapting my list. I want to lean much less on Planeswalkers as a win conditon, which is why I'm at 3 Decrees and and I want to go up to 4 manlands.

This is a really poor argument for not playing Jace.

If you don't have much of a problem killing an opponent's Jace, then how are they blanking your own copy of Jace? Your reasoning makes no sense.

[gustha]

Thanks that helped a whole lot!

You're welcome!
Cool you beat merfolk, i used a speedstill list with 3 firespout and 3 reb +3 bolt sb and still lost to my teammate playing the bom's list! :D I heard next sunday's tournamente there is a loro of merfolk/goblin/zoo/faeries/canadian/new horizon and still I'm not sold on FS anymore... I put up the old school landstill with 3 decrees and I badly want to play them! Yeah, probably that's not the right meta to play landstill, but I havent had any test with other deck and I just want to play and possibly smash some faces, so nevermind. Maybe MD bolts instead of path to exile... but i'd keep them in the SB so nvmd again. I have 2 problems:
-1 wasteland or not wasteland? not having decree sucks, as standstill is not fully optimized. Good ol' problem. Vs merfolk and faeries I have to side them out and this is crap obv. wasteland just give me an edge under opponent's standstil, but it's really not that much. The other option is a 4cc manabase with tropical to improve firespout and EE.
-the sb!

Here's more or less the list:
4 tundra
3 mishra
3 wasteland
2 volcanic
2 island
2 plains
1 mountain (should be volcanic #3/plateau, but folks and faeries use wastelands...)
4 flooded
2 scalding tarn
1 arid mesa (should be 3 strand + 3 tarn + glacial fortress, i want to test her)

4 force
3 cs
3 snare

3 standstill
2 fof
4 brainstorm
3 jace 2.0

2 elspeth
1 open slot (humility? vedalken shackles? path#3? bolt#1? decree#1? fof#3? suggestions are welcome)

3 firespout (should be 2 FS +1 wrath??)
4 stp
2 path
3 EE

61 cards (with the open slot; 24 lands)

Sb as for now:
1 wrath of god (should be crucible of worlds)
3 meddling mage
2 lighiting bolt
3 negate
3 red elemental blast (i'm considering a switch with bolts)
3 kitchen finks

The problem with the manabase is the color requirement: UU for counterspell and jace, WW for wrath/elspeth, R for important tool.. that basic mountain should become plateau...

[Patrick]

This is a really poor argument for not playing Jace.

If you don't have much of a problem killing an opponent's Jace, then how are they blanking your own copy of Jace? Your reasoning makes no sense.

If I'm holding Jace and they have Jace on the table, I have to waste one of my win conditions to take care of their Jace. People are suggesting running Jace as a way to win the game and a way to kill other Jaces. I'm expressing that I don't need Jace as a way to kill Jace, and that as more and more people cram him into their decks he becomes a less desirable win condition.

[Mark Sun]

So GP Columbus will be 31 days from today. It will be my first GP, and event with more than 300 people, which is kind of nerve racking. I have been somewhat busy with school, so I haven't had any time to think about what my sideboard will look like for such an event, but the idea of it was brought up today. Some things to consider, if the community here would be kind enough to walk alongst me as I muse.

As mentioned in the previous page, I'm playing a much more classical list with 1 Jace, TMS in the board for the appropriate matchups and none in the MD, 3 Decree of Justice, 2 Fact or Fiction, and only 1 Elspeth. Sadly, as I am finally comfortable with matchups previously deemed as incredibly unfavorable, ANT and Reanimator, tomorrow the official changes will take place, banning Mystical Tutor and an era from Legacy. So much for my sideboard preparations that I spent some time on.

My thoughts as I look ahead to what a 1,000+ man event could bring to the matchup grid mainly lies on a couple of factors, which reflect what players will bring to the event besides our current DtB's. Those three variables are budget, innovation, and opportunity, and I believe can sway the distribution of decks that are present. Let me start by explaining what I'm thinking when I describe these three factors.


Budget: The guy who doesn't have money to spend for Legacy but wants to play will likely bring a Burn deck or Non-LED Dredge, in my opinion. Every time I look at the Community Board, someone who asks about the price of Legacy will generally have a response that includes these. It is my opinion that I am highly likely to get paired against these players in the earlier rounds, especially before R4 (I am not a cool kid, and therefore do not have 3 Byes to the GP).

Answer: Pulse of the Fields for Burn? Or perhaps something tacky like Sphere of Law? I will be running some form of GY hate already for Dredge.


Innovation: This is the guy who, especially in this case, thinks he can break Grim Monolith. Whether he can or not is irrelevant, but the decktype that it supports (even worse Stax shells or MUD) will be present more. I don't think Illusionary Mask will make that big of a showing, and even then, it's a poorer form of Show and Tell, and Dreadnoughts can be dealt with. Looking at the timeline, Reanimator in its current form pre-banning really took off about 3-4 weeks after the initial unbanning when the optimized decklist was agreed upon. So... such a list should be ready for the GP.

Answer: I'm really thinking about packing Null Rods, to be honest. I think this is the hoser card that people aren't really expecting that much (besides the conversation here). Another choice is possibly Aura of Silence, which I have always liked but do not know how effective it can be. I'm thinking about 1-2 MD Nevinyrral's Disk.


Opportunity: A lot of decks benefit from the banning of Mystical Tutor. The ones that I am thinking of are decks like Zoo, Enchantress, and Loam-based control. Zoo is included in the standard aggro hate package that is the MD + postboard 7 StP effects + 3 Negate for the burn they run, and I've honestly been to the point where I'm glad to see Zoo on the other side of the table. Against Loam based decks like Lands where they clearly gained strength after seeing one of their worst matchups fall, I'm more worried here. I'm running Planar Void as GY hate at the moment, and it has worked okay for me. I believe it's better than Relic / Crypt, as you aren't going all in or being baited on one activation, but rather you have a continuous effect that can be re-cast if bounced or destroyed and you draw another. (Leyline of the Void isn't really viable with 1 Swamp, 1 Underground Sea, and 1 Scrubland).

The last one I really wanted to talk about was Enchantress, I have a teammate that plays this well (to the point where I do not expect many pilots who sit across from me to perform that well), and with Sterling Grove, City of Solitude, and very strong win conditions, not to mention Replenish, this matchup is awful. LS has an inherently slow clock and isn't helped by the presence of cards like Moat, Oblivion Ring (for Elspeth/hate). Not sure if there can be a versatile hate card found for them. Destruction of their permanents is usually answered by a shrouded Karmic Justice. They have enough mana at times to hard-cast Emrakul, which was cute and will most likely spread to some of the other players of the archetype.

Answer: I'm drawing a blank. Besides Planar Void as possible GY hate, I really don't know. Aura of Silence?



So that's what has been running through my head. I hope I can get a little bit of help before this event, it seems pretty important

Oh, and my current SB, with plenty of flex, is:

1 Jace, TMS
2 Path to Exile
3 Negate
3 Preacher

The rest is what I'm looking to fill in.

[Rico Suave]

If I'm holding Jace and they have Jace on the table, I have to waste one of my win conditions to take care of their Jace. People are suggesting running Jace as a way to win the game and a way to kill other Jaces. I'm expressing that I don't need Jace as a way to kill Jace, and that as more and more people cram him into their decks he becomes a less desirable win condition.

I thought you said you weren't too worried about killing Jace with the rest of your deck. Why don't you just kill it normally, then play Jace afterword?

[Reagens]

@Morbid-

I wouldn't read too much into that. If Madrid is any reference I think most players will look at past bigger events and make their choice.

Since mystical is banned I would expect decks like Zoo being an even more interesting choice. So my guess would be:

Large portion zoo.

Equally large representations of the following:

Counter/top
Bant
New Horizons
Reanimator
ANT (or TES or similar)
Merfolk

At the top tables (after a few rounds):

- Zoo
- Bant
- New Horizons
- Lands (difficult to say because this is a very hard deck to assemble)
- ANT (I expect ANT and the like to be more resilient then reanimator)

Loam is still a big question mark, and remains to be seen but the meta seems right for it.
I would probably ignore Merfolk in the board to keep enough place for other SB strategies. I expect Zoo to gravely outnumber Merfolk in the first few rounds thus gravely thinning their numbers.

On a final note. Are you sure you will be taking Landstill to the GP without byes? I have seen for myself that in the last 2 rounds of the day your mental fitness is vastly more important then the match-up you are facing. I would certainly recommend to try and pick up any byes that can be played for in your area (if there are still any events left).