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Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #4881
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    If your meta is heavy aggro (Zoo/Affinity/Goblins/GW), then 2/2 split. If your meta is mostly 8-10 creatures/deck, play Jace. Jace is terrible against Zoo/Goblins/Merfolks unless you have a way to support him (Peacekeeper against Merfolks, enough counters against Zoo's Burn i.e. difficult considering you still have to keep dudes off the board, and Jace is just not very spetacular against goblins when he faces Ringleaders/Matrons/Siege-gangs etc).
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  2. #4882

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Elspeth is really good at establishing inevitability, and doesn't eat it to pyroblast, and gives you another out to Thrun, and is a faster clock than Jace a lot of the time.

  3. #4883

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Hey guys. just wanted to know how you guys deal with Thrun. I splash black for Perish, but I'm not sure if that's the best answer. Humility works to an extent but green usually means Grip. Also, what do you guys think of running SFM + Equipment package in the sideboard of a traditional Landstill List? In theory it takes up quite a bit of space (6-7 slots) but I'm eager to see if it works; Drew Levin went 10th at Providence with his Uw list packing SFM in the side (link). Anyways, just wanted to hear some thoughts.

  4. #4884
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Hourglass View Post
    Hey guys. just wanted to know how you guys deal with Thrun. I splash black for Perish, but I'm not sure if that's the best answer. Humility works to an extent but green usually means Grip. Also, what do you guys think of running SFM + Equipment package in the sideboard of a traditional Landstill List? In theory it takes up quite a bit of space (6-7 slots) but I'm eager to see if it works; Drew Levin went 10th at Providence with his Uw list packing SFM in the side (link). Anyways, just wanted to hear some thoughts.
    These take care of Thrun or buy you time to find Wrath of God.
    Phyrexian Metamorph
    Moat
    Humility
    Elspeth, Knight-Errant (infinite chump blocks)
    Crucible of Worlds with Factories (infinite chump blocks)


    As for the Stoneforge sb plan its probably vs Merfolk? I prefer Peacekeepers.

  5. #4885
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I took this homebrew list to a tournament. It was a small 8 man tournament but i just wanted a feel on how the deck played.


    UB Landstill
    23 Lands
    4 Delta
    2 Strand
    1 Tundra (EE@3)
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Island
    1 Swamp
    3 Wasteland
    3 Mishra's Factory
    1 Academy Ruins

    6 Win
    3 Jace
    1 Crucible
    2 Isochron Scepter

    9 Draw
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Top
    3 Standstill

    9 Removal
    3 GFTT
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Vedalken Shackles
    2 The Abyss

    14 Permission
    3 Mental Misstep
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will

    15 SB
    2 Perish
    1 Damnation
    1 Vedalken Shackles
    2 EE
    2 Negate
    4 Bob
    3 Extirpate

    The reason to the creation of this list was based on:
    - Examining UWx Landstill v.s. Ubg Landstill and realizing that the 'weakness' of UWx Landstill is the strained manabase of having to play WW spells in a deck that primarily wants to play UU spells. It's usually not an issue, but the inconsistency definitely exists. So I went ahead and worked on Ubg lists with Deed but still felt that having Waste/Factories in a 3-color deck was creating situations where I lost games because of manabases.

    -I referred to the recent success of UW builds and saw the strength of 2-color lists, especially those packing Shackles (which is decent against the Merfolk matchup and slightly poorer against Zoo/Bant/Junk). I originally wanted to try out UW builds, but decided to take a fresh look at something I've never done before: UB.

    - The reason I tried out UB was: a lot of powerful black removal has been printed recently i.e. GFTT, Dismember etc. In particular, GFTT is the single most powerful removal right now that only doesn't answer a Dreadnought/MUD (both decks not being tier and a primarily concern). StP is still the best removal, but with Mental Misstep around, I feel that the-turn slower GFTT is still capable of pulling its weight because you know that GFTT is going to resolve without risks of running into Mental Missteps. Another reason that pushed me to black was: In white, your second best white removal is Path to Exile, which I absolutely detest. The land drop from Path really costs you too many games that matter, and I feel that black offers more for removal numbers 5-8. For sweepers, black also gets Damnation, so the black-equivalent of Wrath is always available. More importantly, black gives Perish (popular in UWx splashing black anyway), and Extirpate (which is an all time star currently against Painter/Show/NO/control mirrors).

    - As such, I went ahead and worked a UB list, my removals are misstep-proof. I still fell back on Scepter because sticking a Scepter in a game usually just steals games. I board out my 2nd scepter against decks with better artifact removal (Grudge/Pridgemage/Grips) but keep them in against almost any other deck. All removal is imprintable on Scepter, giving a total of 13 (4 Counterspell, 5 removal, 4 Brainstorm) spells that are imprintable and 6 less subpar spells that you don't imprint (MM, Snare). In the SB, imprinting Extirpate against control/aggro-control decks is viable although usually it's a win-more situation.

    - The new list I made has an extremely stable manabase. The high island count supports Shackles, where 3-color builds can't support shackles at all. Shackles is another small win-condition in the deck, but gives the deck better chance against some matchups (SFM/Bob/Merfolk/Gobs/). The Abyss is extremely devastating when resolved (against Thrun it works too), and getting either Abyss/Shackles means that your opponents have to overextend, making your DAmnation/Perish better postboard. The Abyss creates situations where your opponents are simply shut out until they build a hand to dump multiple creatures and counterspells, to which you have time to build up your hand for counterspells etc. If both Abyss and Shackles stick, it's pretty much game over (they have 2 creatures, both will die to the Abyss since you steal one).

    In the games I played, my opponents had SoLS/SoFF and Bitterblossom, therefore making Abyss much weaker, but I can't imagine how the Abyss will function against decks that don't have pro-B. Pridemage is an issue, but that applies to Moat as well, so only Humility is truly powerful against Pridemage-creatures. Aside from that, sticking an Abyss means that the aggro player is unable to develop a board, allowing you to have time to build up with Crucible/Jace/Standstill/Scepter etc.

    - I really like the list so far. The manabase is pretty stable. Black for Perish and Bob (for control and combo) and Extirpate really offer a lot. The combination of high Island count for Shackles and 2 Abyss Maindeck seems to work out well as x-1 removal spells that stick in play. The only change I would like to make is adding the 4th Snare and 4th Standstill. I'm not sure if cutting Scepter is correct but I am open to the idea on cutting those 2 slots for DAmnations/Snares/Standstill.

    Like I said, this is a fresh list and idea that I had thrown out. It has its weaknesses but I liked how it played out.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  6. #4886
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @Metalwalker
    Are there any threats that you're worried about that have CMC >3? If not, then consider Smother. It handles all the creatures GFTT as well as the occasional Affinity/Metalworker/Dreadnought too.
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  7. #4887
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    In my meta we have NORUG, Show/Hypergenesis, SFM+SoFF/SoLS, I ended up taking the Edicts which worked out nice against those matchups. If me meta weren't so full of pro-B/shrouded creatures, I would go with Smother.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  8. #4888

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    - Examining UWx Landstill v.s. Ubg Landstill and realizing that the 'weakness' of UWx Landstill is the strained manabase of having to play WW spells in a deck that primarily wants to play UU spells. It's usually not an issue, but the inconsistency definitely exists. So I went ahead and worked on Ubg lists with Deed but still felt that having Waste/Factories in a 3-color deck was creating situations where I lost games because of manabases.

    - The reason I tried out UB was: a lot of powerful black removal has been printed recently i.e. GFTT, Dismember etc. In particular, GFTT is the single most powerful removal right now that only doesn't answer a Dreadnought/MUD (both decks not being tier and a primarily concern). StP is still the best removal, but with Mental Misstep around, I feel that the-turn slower GFTT is still capable of pulling its weight because you know that GFTT is going to resolve without risks of running into Mental Missteps. Another reason that pushed me to black was: In white, your second best white removal is Path to Exile, which I absolutely detest. The land drop from Path really costs you too many games that matter, and I feel that black offers more for removal numbers 5-8. For sweepers, black also gets Damnation, so the black-equivalent of Wrath is always available.

    - As such, I went ahead and worked a UB list, my removals are misstep-proof.
    It bears mentioning, though no doubt duly ignored, that the "problems" you're bringing up disappear when you stop running antiquated cards. If some split of StP/WoG/EE/Moat/Humility has really been your removal suite since any time during or after Lorwyn block, you're going to lose to aggro decks. "Misstep-proofing" your removal by doubling its cost (high cost: the problem with said removal in the first place) is taking two steps backward to take one step forward. Not only are you taking out the only spell that's unconditionally still as good as it was years ago, you're replacing it with something that's also answered 1-for-1 by a commonly played counterspell.

    Buuut, if by "GFTT is the single most powerful [non-StP] removal right now" you meant "Dismember is..." then you'd be right; scalable cost without necessary access to a second color is awesome. As awful as The Abyss is, stalling into it on a clear board is actually almost as good as stalling into a planeswalker against a creature deck. That's something to consider: something like 4 StP, 2-3 Dismember, 2 Abyss/Damnation is not the worst thing you could be doing with your slots if you've got a set of Jaces in your deck to follow it up. You'd have to play 3 colors, but StP is not a difficult or terrible splash and Dismember can pick up a good amount of slack. You're still mostly 2 colors anyway with no double color requirements outside of UU.

    If you really wanted to work on it, that would be the direction to go. Last thing, The Abyss can't ever target Thrun because you still control the Abyss trigger. If that guy's actually a problem for you, just board Edict since he's not in anyone's main either.
    Great success!

  9. #4889

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    After seeing some of the newer lists, this is what I've been thinking about running, but some card choices I'm not as solid on. Mainly the sideboard is where my doubts are. Is PtE just not worth it anymore? Is it worth dodging extraction/extirpate by running 1 day 1 wrath?

    4 Mental Misstep
    4 Force of Will
    3 Spell Snare
    3 Counterspell
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Standstill
    3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Dismember
    1 Wrath of God
    1 Day of Judgment/Wrath of God
    1 Humility
    1 Oblivion Ring
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Sensei's Divining Top/Path to Exile
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Marsh Flats
    3 Tundra
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Scrubland
    1 Celestial Colonnade
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    1 Oblivion Ring
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Go for the Throat
    2 Misdirection
    2 Peacekeeper
    2 Extirpate
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Vendilion Clique

  10. #4890
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by rayaj View Post
    After seeing some of the newer lists, this is what I've been thinking about running, but some card choices I'm not as solid on. Mainly the sideboard is where my doubts are. Is PtE just not worth it anymore? Is it worth dodging extraction/extirpate by running 1 day 1 wrath?

    4 Mental Misstep
    4 Force of Will
    3 Spell Snare
    3 Counterspell
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Standstill
    3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Dismember
    1 Wrath of God
    1 Day of Judgment/Wrath of God
    1 Humility
    1 Oblivion Ring
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Sensei's Divining Top/Path to Exile
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Marsh Flats
    3 Tundra
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Scrubland
    1 Celestial Colonnade
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    1 Oblivion Ring
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Go for the Throat
    2 Misdirection
    2 Peacekeeper
    2 Extirpate
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Vendilion Clique
    1) Path to Exile - I want to slow down my opponent with cheap removal early game so I can dominate with my 4 mana bombs, so instead giving them a land and speeding them up isnt a good idea. Example: opponent just played stoneforge mystic which searched for batterskull, do you want to path that mystic?

    2) 2x Wraths is probably better so you can kill Thrun.

    3) Why 3 Standstills instead of 4?

    4) I'd recommend 1 Enlightened Tutor in the SB as it 'doubles' your sideboard cards.

  11. #4891

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by dsck View Post
    1) Path to Exile - I want to slow down my opponent with cheap removal early game so I can dominate with my 4 mana bombs, so instead giving them a land and speeding them up isnt a good idea. Example: opponent just played stoneforge mystic which searched for batterskull, do you want to path that mystic?

    2) 2x Wraths is probably better so you can kill Thrun.

    3) Why 3 Standstills instead of 4?

    4) I'd recommend 1 Enlightened Tutor in the SB as it 'doubles' your sideboard cards.
    I've almost always run 3 Standstills, I ran 4 at one point, but it felt like too many at the time. I honestly couldn't tell you what I would cut for a 4th Standstill because I like the way it feels at three. Historically I ran 3 because it was bad against vial decks. With MM out it could be more viable, but I still feel like I don't want the 4th.
    As for the E Tutor, what should I cut? The Go for the Throat? I'm also not sure how much I like leyline in board.

  12. #4892

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I've been wondering if two shackles is the proper number with how amazing it is vs all the creature decks that have been running about. I believe that this deck has tools to beat most decks in the format and has not been getting the love it deserves due to the popularity of Stoneblade

    (also i have been playing on Lackey if anyone wants to test real decks on that please hit me up my name is Rekk on that as well Message me)

  13. #4893
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @Catinthehat: Saying playing Moat/Humility/WoG/EE is wrong since LOR block gave aggro decks a host of powerful creature tells me that you know nothing of this archetype except for trolling or following the recent trends of the more 'popularly' played control decklists (that aren't really Landstill for that matter). With regards to not playing StP, it is a loss to not play the best removal in the format, but that doesn't mean that it's not viable. Ubg lists don't run StP, and PV ran non 1cmc black removal in his suite for the GP, with the idea to have non-misstepable removal. Obviously if you're playing white, you still play StP even with Misstep being around in the format, but if you're going black removal, where possibly the next best non-StP removal in the format is still GFTT (Dismember is terrible in control lists), then there's more incentive to go for GFTT then something like Ghastly Demise and Innocent Blood.

    @Rekk: Shackles is great in control (also see Hanni's Countertop control list and MUC). The only issue with Shackles is: If you're playing in a landstill shell with manlands and wastelands, it becomes increasingly hard to maximize Shackles and in fact Shackles becomes a liability that doesn't do anything. If you do want to pack 2 or more Shackles, you need to consider playing 2 colors instead of 3 colors and maintain your colorless lands low (i.e. you can't run 4 Factories + 4 wastelands etc). I tried Shackles in UWx builds and the only issue with that is in UWx builds, it is more desirable to run a manabase of 2 Plains to support your WW-costing bombs. This naturally makes shackles weaker, on top of the manlands/wastelands/Ruins you play. If you play shackles, make sure that your non-blue color isn't a restriction in your manabase. That was one of the reasons I tried the UB list I posted earlier because it supported Shackles better than the UW/UWx lists (since you want WW consistently in UWx builds).
    Last edited by GGoober; 07-14-2011 at 08:05 PM.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  14. #4894

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Yea I don't get what catinthehat meant by the antiquated removal suite. The only thing I agree on in regards to being antiquated is Moat and EE. Moat is antiquated mainly because of Quasali Pridemage with tutors and the number of GW decks running around and EE is just kind of clunky at times and requires a little bit more of the nonbasic(s) that you need the extra color(s) from. Wrath of God/Humility is still relevant as an anti aggro strategy. Wrath of God obviously being one of the best sweepers in the format and kills off Thrun and other problematic(s) enabling the empty board to JaceTMS or Standstill, and Humility shuts off Quasali Pridemage, KOTR shenanigans and most everything else.

    Also in a misstep laden environment, I would still use dismember as a one of in a lot of control decks, even U/W. Obviously still use 4 swords to plowshares as well..

  15. #4895
    Tap 2, Standstill. Good?
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    If your spot removals are Misstep proof, this means that every Brainstorm/ Top that you cast in late game and in g2-g3 (if he doesnt board MM out) will be countered. Not good.
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  16. #4896

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I'm wondering what would be a better sideboard card, leyline of sanctity or serenity? I feel like having something to wipe affinity would be nice to have, but sanctity definitely has its place.

  17. #4897
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    You guys still like the Peacekeeper plan even though they now have Dismember to answer it?
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  18. #4898
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by lorddotm View Post
    You guys still like the Peacekeeper plan even though they now have Dismember to answer it?
    I packed misdirections as well for that reason, BUT honestly you are probably better off getting 4 pte from sb and drop humility or moat on the table.

  19. #4899

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    That is an option, or have a red source + firespout in the main/board. I also still like EE set at two or three to do a pretty good board sweep. It's really up to you, I'm going to test it in a few different ways to get a feel for the right option.

  20. #4900
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I have a couple questions:

    1. How much countermagic is too much?
    I'd like to experiment with 14 because Spell Snare is nifty versus everyone and Counterspell is great for our late-game.

    2. Thoughts on Dismember and Crucible of Worlds in today's metagame?
    Dismember seems really rough. The lifeloss is huge for Landstill. At a glance it seems people are playing it just because they can. Why not just play Path to Exile? Crucible is another interesting card. Stalling with Mishra's Factory is nice, but finding the right moment to drop a 3cc artifact is difficult. Does Mental Misstep make up for this?

    I play mostly in an aggro meta and have been having some issues pre-sideboard with Zoo. I switched to UBG Landstill for a bit but really hated it. After testing I arrived at the following list:

    Draw:
    4 Standstill
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (probably run a split with Elspeth v. Zoo, etc)
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Sensei's Diving Top

    Countermagic:
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mental Misstep
    3 Counterspell
    3 Spell Snare

    Removal:
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Vedalken Shackles
    2 Humility
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Wrath of God

    Land:
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Island
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Marsh Flats
    4 Tundra
    2 Wasteland
    1 Plains
    3 Mishra's Factory
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Volcanic Island


    I know my manabase looks funny but I haven't had any issues. I experimented with 3 Wasteland but disliked the colorless mana.

    Anyway, I hate to clog up the thread with another decklist. Just getting back into the game and hoping to get a fresh take. I'll check back tomorrow and try to add some relevant responses to the other posts in this thread.

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