Played this at Alternate Universes in Blue Bell PA yesterday all the way to 2nd place. 38 players came to battle...
UWr Landstill
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
3 Plains
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Celestial Collonade
1 Academy Ruins
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Standstill
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Humility
2 Wrath of God
4 Brainstorm
4 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Elspeth Knight Errant
1 Crucible of Worlds
Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tormods Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Firespout
1 Mountain
Round 1 - win 2-1 Maverick
Round 2 - win 2-0 Esper Stoneblade
Round 3 - lose 1-2 Tezz Affinity
Round 4 - win 2-0 UBr Delver
Round 5 - win 2-0 Maverick
Round 6 - ID
Top 8 - win 2-1 Esper Stoneblade
Top 4 - win 2-1 Past in Flames Combo
Finals - lose 1-2 Esper Stoneblade
My loss was a disappointing one in the finals. I lost in game 3 due to jace when the guy only runs 2 and after we sideboard I have a full set and reb effects AND man lands...but nevertheless he had a really strong hand and beat me. This deck ran very well and I highly recommend it in the current meta game.
Forgot to mention, I banked $200 and an invite for a larger legacy event in December. Not to shabby!
Last edited by landstillmaniac; 09-10-2012 at 02:41 PM.
I don't understand why not to incorporate Snapcaster Mage and Terminus+Top, which are amazing weapons for this deck. Lists with 4 Counterspells and 2 Wraths of God make me smile, I'm wondering how it's possible to have success with those in a metagame where your opponent starts with turn 1 Delver and you know you'll have to do backflips to push a removal through a wall of soft permission.
-----------------------------------------------------Originally Posted by Pastorofmuppets
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Engineered Explosives on zero is good against delver while it can also hit Mongoose when on one. He is also running 24 lands so daze and spell pierce becomes weaker due to being able to hit land drops.
You have just given me a "on paper" answer that matches poorly with reality games. I'm playing my tweaked version of Landstill since 2 months (when Milillo made that top8) and I know how hard is to play through conditional counters paired with Wasteland and Stifle the first 2 turns, except you find a top. I also know how hard is to combat the constant mass of quality creatures Maverick throws at you. Terminus allows you to cast a one-mana Wrath of God that bypasses Spell Pierce and sets up Standstill when you untap. Snapcaster doubles your counters, Brainstorms and removal while being a beater under Standstill himself and occasionally a removal that trades with lots of creatures in the format. He matters immensely.
I can't really understand how one can succeed in this metagame playing seven or eight four drops, 24 lands or not, and four Counterspells.
(I play 23, by the way).
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This deck is insane once it hits 4 mana and doing so isn't hard. I have 6 basics main and generally when I hit 4 I do not lose. Regarding the RUG delver matchup, I went to Legacy champs with a list similar to this and I was 3-0 against RUG. You must play a tight game against delver, but its not unwinnable. EE is excellent vs RUG so are swords and snare. So they will exhaust some counters early game then like I said once I hit 4 mana I do not lose. They counter jace ok, they counter humility ok, then I play wrath and they lose. I stabilize at a lower life.
Next regarding snapcaster, top, and miracles, its quite simple. My list runs mass effects in ee, wrath, humility, and firespout. Sure snapcaster is cute at having swords a few more times but its not good in this list. Next top and miracles are fun and cute and all, but how I look at it is, I am clogging my deck up with tops, just to play miracle wraths? When I can just NOT play top and run cards that do the same thing for a higher cost? I don't care if I win the game at a low life, a win is a win. At legacy champs in Indi I beat RUG one game stabilizing at 1 life then swordsing my collonade to go to 5 and coasted to a win on Jace and Elspeth.
It makes me smile when almost everytime I go out to a legacy event I do well or win in my local scene. Not only that but I have been playing landstill in legacy and vintage for 7 years atleast. I put landstill back on the map in vintage winning 3 big events in a row and continue winning with it. And as I said I come out once and a while to run legacy and I almost always do well. Not trying to tute my own horn but I am a very good player and know what I am doing when it comes to this archetype.
Any other critical questions or questions regarding matchups let me know. I have beaten most archetypes in this format with this list. Thanks!
I agree with Landstillmaniac. I was actually at the same legacy event as him. I tried snapcaster before but I feel that it doesn't align with the deck as well as straight sweepers and countermagic. Snapcaster is still a 1 for 1. As for RUG, if you're worried about a tempo deck that plays stifle then miracles is not the solution; the miracle trigger can be stifled.
At the Alternate Universe tournament I tried stiflenought for kicks but did poorly. In the same day I went to another small legacy tournament with landstill and took 1st.
Here's my list (thanks to Josh for helping me at AU--adding red in the current meta is amazing):
4 Standstill
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Wrath of God
2 Humility
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
1 Celestial Colonade
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Wasteland
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
Sideboard:
2 Disenchant
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Pulse of the Fields
2 Firespout
I've also played UW Landstill, UWb, UWg (for krosan grips in the stoneforge era), and BUG. I'll probably stick with UWx because Jace + Elspeth + Humility is too much fun.
Played a hybrid of Miracles and Landstill to top 8 where I split today. Did not drop a game.
UWr Landstill
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Standstill
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Terminus
4 Brainstorm
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Crucible of Worlds
Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormods Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Disenchant
2 Path to Exile
3 Counterbalance
I wasn't super impressed with Entreat, but Snapcaster was amazing all day. I think I need more standstills. CB was great out of the board.
@Landstill Maniac: funny that we meet also here, if I'm correct about who you are. We met on Cockatrice some time ago, you talked to me about you creating U/R Landstill in Vintage. Let's see: your other nickname on other forums is quite strange, true?
Anyways: the last posts showed different school of thoughts about Landstill. Ozymandias-who's playing Landstill from a long time, too- just stated that Snapcasters are amazing. I'm with him. (Btw, that list is missing 3 Tops, i guess).
Aside from utility, Snapcaster provides a clock. This deck applies zero pressure to combo decks. I said, zero. Snapcaster also turns out favorable Standstill positions more easily. Paired with Mishra's Factory, it can hold a board consisting of little critters.
Under Standstill, he's also the Dryad Arbor blocker you need- especially if you don't run Wasteland (which is uncorrect to me, especially now where utility lands like Grove of the Burnwillows pop from time to time, and you're basically cold to them pre-board. Not to mention optimizing Crucible so that it becomes a complete win condition). He's also an Un-duressable counter versus Combo. You're going to eventually lose against Storm due to the lack of clock; they can wait forever and sculpt a hand full of discard effects. You don't even run Top to hide them.
Please observe that these points I'm making come from real play experience; I've stumbled across these scenarios lots of times, as they're patterns of game that happen recurringly.
Top is amazing, not just cute. It gives constant card quality over the time, so that you can either find your answer to the match you're facing and your (few) conditions. On equality of resources, a resolved Top will win you the game in the control mirror, as well as finding you the Brainstorm to shuffle away that useless removal. Against aggro, it will allow you to find lands more comfortably if you're slightly stuck on screw in the first turns, where avoiding being Wastelanded is crucial-especially if you're running sweepers that cost 4. You may say that you run 24 lands, but it's not always Christmas.
Against combo, it does what I said before, and digs for more disruption at instant speed- in your opponent's eot, when they have passed fearing all the Counterspells you had in your hand while you were mana open, while you were full of jank.
Also note that it's a virtual cantrip that can be played and abused off colorless lands, which we run plenty of.
There's a reason why Top decks are running good these days. Card quality is crucial to succeed in a wide format. I'd rather shave 1 counter, 1 removal and a win condition to run 3 cards that virtually allow me to have more selection over the course of my future draws; otherwise, I'm more likely to open hands with 3 removals and find myself playing against combo, or needing to stuck a Jace in the right moment and drawing myself a Swords to Plow. You get the point, right?
As for the Terminus issue: I'll concede the fact that it is clunky from time to time, but it's the perfect response to such a brutal format. If the opponent starts with Mother, Thalia and/or Knight and they resolve, you don't have the time to durdle. *If* you reach 4 mana (Wastelands are critical, and you don't always drop basics for the first four turns) and Wrath of God them, you're leaving yourself tapped and cut off Counterspell for their next bomb. That deck is redundant of bombs, every creature represents a more or less dangerous threat. The tap-out issue increases post-board as you cut off permission to save yourself from Choke, which is a thing to keep firmly in mind when playing post-board games. While it is true that Landstill nowhere suffers it as much as a normal Miracle deck, it's still hurting to be cut off some lands in such a mana-hungry deck.
Terminus costs 1 mana at instant speed. This gives immense benefits. It also avoids Mongoose and Goyf growing, Witness recurring goods, and gives also a shot against Dredge as it gets rid of Ichorids definitely as well as Moebas and Thugs.
You also untap, Terminus at 1 mana, play Standstill. If that isn't good, frankly I don't know what it is. Wrath would require you another turn to set SS. And Maybe the other has dropped another threat, and you're exactly from the starting point again.
[You're also playing Firespouts off the board, so you shouldn't have problems with Maverick. Even if to me you're overloading on removal and you're very light against Show and Tell combos.]
Entreat the Angels is, frankly, less powerful than what it seems on paper. Uncastable in the first turns, color-intensive, easily goes under Pierce if played poorly. It's still an excellent tool to finish the game in 1-2 swings against midrange decks, like Nic Fit. Elspeth seems to me quite outdated- Miracle and Threshold are packing Sulfur Elemental post-board to foil it, at least here. You're not keeping Plows and sweepers in against the first.
....
What I'm trying to argue here-take it with a grain of salt-is that your list of Landstill, although solid and proved, is perhaps more working in a kind of local metagame than how it would in a wide, unknown metagame where the tiers are piloted by optimal players. Landstill is already a deck that struggles from time to time having to hold the fort for several turns before estabilishing, I think some of the new adds may at least help it in getting this job easier.
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I am that guy...also I'm not saying storm is a good match up. It's not unwinnable...everything else in testing is fine. Also the caliber of player in the area I play are some of the best. And I played vs real decks and had good results. I always have good results with landstill and every time I do it comes with criticism in this format and vintage yet I do well.
I will play what I will and continue doing well. Thanks for the 2 cents...
FYI top, snappy, and miracles are not staples in landstill. They are merely options, and options I choose not to play. If anything the style list I play has had more results over the years maybe not recently bc ppl like to play the "net deck" or what people say is "good". That doesn't mean an older style landstill list is no good anymore
Thanks
Would you care to share your list?
It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
My list is at the top of the page...
Also I hadn't played legacy consistently since "rug delver" was called tempo thresh. When I decided to play again I noticed the format looked familiar to when I used to play so I went with an old style landstill deck and did well. I have tested tops and miracles and don't care for them as I am wasting slots to make other cards work. People may like that idea but I do not it clutters the deck with bs cards that aren't necessary in winning...
I am no hack, I have been playing landstill forever. I don't just throw a pile together and hope it performs I test against very good opponents in building a deck and making choices...
My name on themanadrain.com (vintage forums) is oshkoshhaitsyosh
Sorry, did not see it, my bad.
It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
Congrats, (i was your top 4 match)
i was wondering and forgot to ask you, why not just onnnnne wasteland if you are running crucible and don't have things like cb to cast?
That's a good Q, and the answer is I didn't feel like waste lock was appealing enough. I normally run tolaria west package with 1 waste, but I decided to up the basic land count, cut 1 crucible and add the 4th jace. I was going for a list that was super powerful at the height of its mana curve. I was also determined to not lose to wasteland myself. That's why the 4 drop plan worked bc my mana base was unbreakable!
As I said I used to run 2 crucible, 1 waste, 1 tolaria west. And sometimes a second waste in the board. That pretty much sums it up I hope this makes sense. Any other Q's regarding this let me know!
Actually, I got pretty greedy and decided to run 4 tops, for the old 25 land, 62-card special. I would run it back, except swapping a Standstill in for an Entreat. I might cut Entreat all together, because every time I set up to cast it, I already had Jace locking the game down.
Everyone still playing wrath and humility is doing it wrong (at least for now due to RUG and Delver in general). Replace those with 4 Terminus, run 3 tops (which are great when dropped before you lay standstill), 2 snapcaster (to flashback brainstorm) and 2 vendilion clique so you won't have any problems with miracle cards clogging up your hand.
Also, clearly we have to reduce to number of counterspells to 3 at maximum. Spell Pierce just does the same while being cheaper, which is crucial when facing tons of dazes and opponent spell pierces.
Spell pierce is not a counterspell replacement...pierce is not a hard counter and doesn't hit creatures...you say rug is a problem but I am 4-1 against it with the given list. So I must say you are wrong...you like miracles and tops I don't end of story. To say I'm doing it wrong makes you a fool.
Maybe you should move your discussion to the miracles thread and stop trolling the landstill thread
I have tested snappy, clique, miracle top plan and simply like my plan better. So move on
Landstill with Miracles is still Landstill. If he means Miracle control without SS, ok, but I still think they can coexist pretty well.Maybe you should move your discussion to the miracles thread and stop trolling the landstill thread
I have tested snappy, clique, miracle top plan and simply like my plan better. So move on
I'm testing your list, meanwhile. 3 Snares and 4 REBs are great. Wrath of God has yet to be cast once. 4 Standstills seem too much. Humility is really, really good. I'll give you credit for that.
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