Hey guys, little update list here for UWr Landstill
GP winner Claudio Bonanni won Italian Legacy Championship again this time with a swet Standstill deck.
https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com/take-your-time/
Hope you all like it!
Sib
Hi,
I tried the Bonanni's list with little changes for my LGS. Here it is:
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ponder
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Standstill
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Kozilek's Return
SB: 2 Counterbalance
Generally I think that the move from Counterbalance to Standstill is a worth trying. Abrupt Decay is due to Sultai popularity one of the key cards these days. But there are some issues that must be solved and I am working on them:
1) Colorless lands and manlands sometimes can be tricky, so I decided to get rid of Faerie Conclave and put it antoher Fetchland. I am not sure if 3 Mishra's Factory are enough, but I try it.
2) Missing Counterbalance is sometimes very paining, especially in mirror with Miracles. I am looking for cards that could improve this matchup, which seems on paper better than it is in real.
3) In traditional Miracles, players are adapting to the "Sultai Shift" with adding Predicts and cutting one Counterbalance. Therefore, we must find a consistent concept of this deck, which can be a powerful alternative for the classic Miracles.
I hope this thread will help us to adapt this deck for current metagame.
How about this beast?
Deck: Legacy Esper Replenishstill.dec
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Spells:37
4 Brainstorm
2 Dead Weight
4 Myth Realized
1 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
2 Engineered Plague
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Replenish
4 Force of Will
Lands:23
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Counterbalance
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Aura of Silence
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oppression
1 The Abyss
Created with Decked Builder
http://www.deckedbuilder.com/
Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
I've been playing around with UWbg LandStill, inspired by landstillmaniac:
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Mishra's Factor
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
1 Life from the Loam
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
2 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Wasteland
2 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Flusterstorm
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Containment Priest
1 Golgari Charm
I Top 8'd a GPT for Vegas the other week with a similar list, losing to Miracles in the quarter finals.
Since Miracles has gone, I feel there is less of a need for Abrupt Decay and more for cheap removal, so I've replaced the Decays with Fatal Pushes. Also, I feel that Elves and TNN decks will become more prominent, so I put in a Golgari Charm, which has the added bonus of being live against Sneak and Show. Finally, I feel weak to Eldrazi, so I added an extra Dismember.
What are people's thoughts on removing Decay? It's great that it's uncounterable, but the two mana, plus the Green mana, makes it less attractive now that CB has gone.
Further, what are people's thoughts between Crucible of the Worlds and Life from the Loam? I like both but particularly like that Loam is immune to Decay, which inevitably hits Crucible immediately.
Edit: If you've never tried Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in Landstill, you haven't lived. I never thought I'd say another White planeswalker is better than Elspeth, but I think Gideon is.
Played around with the numbers a bit, to try and strengthen the Eldrazi and Elves matchups.
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Mishra's Factor
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
1 Life from the Loam
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
2 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Wasteland
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismember
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Flusterstorm
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Containment Priest
1 Golgari Charm
Leaving the Abrupt Decay main gives you three outs to Chalice on 1 (EE, Deed, and Decay) and four postboard (extra decay) plus the Dismembers to diversify your removal around it. I hope that improves the Eldrazi matchup. Golgari Charm gets the nod against Elves while having utility against Sneak and Show/Omnishow and TNN decks. I can't really touch the Surgicals, Flusters, and Cliques because the deck is glacially slow and therefore weak against combo, but I cut the Pithing Needle which was primarily for Sensei's Divining Top and therefore no longer as useful.
Now I just have to work on actually being able to play Magic.
The Golgari Charm has already paid off, destroying a Sneak Attack where my opponent was tapped out. An Abrupt Decay would have been useless there. I feel it's a good addition and it's staying for the time being.
After Miracles ban, there's an empty slot for draw-go deck. I developed the follow list. Standstill has the potential to replace the card selection of sensei's top with card advantage, and also from turning a small advantage into a bigger one.
UWR Landstill
// 60 Main deck
// 1 Artifact
1 Engineered Explosives
// 4 Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
// 6 Enchantment
4 Standstill
1 Blood Moon
1 Humility
// 16 Instant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
// 22 Land
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Arid Mesa
3 Polluted Delta
// 3 Planeswalker
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant (Or Ajani Vengeant; or Gideon, Ally of Zendikar; or Chandra, Torch of Defiance).
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 8 Sorcery
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgment
4 Ponder
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Ethersworn canonist
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Kozilek's Return
Main deck choices:
- Blood moon is for the surprise factor, and to brake the inevitability of Eye of ugin or Lands.
- Packed lot of removals. The historical problem of this deck was with quick threats, but we may let some threats land the battlefield.
- Still in doubt about the second lightning bolt: maybe should play 3 counterspell or 4 supreme verdicts?
Sideboard:
- Meddling mage over vendilion clique against combo decks: vendilion works very well with counterbalance, but now meddling mage is a better option against combo.
- Playing 3 Pyro... Maybe 4? 2 wear / tear?
Some options:
- Ensnaring Bridge (weak against decay and flicker)
- Decree of justice (slow)
- Elpeth, Knight-errant
- Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
- Chandra, Torch of Defiance
- Ajani Vengeant (slow)
- 2/1 sfm + 1 batterskull + 0/1 umezawa's jitte (weak against decay).
- Pithing needle (wasteland, thespian stage, vial?)
Last edited by Stefanogs; 05-03-2017 at 10:39 AM.
Myth Realized deserves an honorable mention in a shell with Humility, as does Stoneforge Mystic + equipment. Also, Lingering Souls could be good in an Esper version.
I'm curious if something like this could be viable going forward:
U/W Landstill
Lands (24)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
Creatures (0)
Spells (36)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Humility
2 Engineered Explosives
Maybe butcher the mana a bit for a red splash for Red Blasts in the board, maybe a black splash for Zealous Persecution or Toxic Deluge.
I can see Storm being a bad matchup, so there would definitely need to be ample hate in the board. Humility would be getting cut (along with all of the other removal), so hatebears are probably the direction to go. Vendilion Clique, Canonist/Priest, Prelate, Meddling/Snapcaster Magi, etc.
Aggro and aggro/control matchups should be decent, or maybe not and this pile is simply too weak and slow to compete in Modern Legacy. Just curious how others feel about this sort of archetype now that Miracles is gone.
EDIT: Forgot to include the Standstills. Fixed.
EDIT2: It would need to splash a third color for Engineered Explosives. Also, maybe the list should run some number of Council's Judgment main, possibly instead of Path to Exile. Also, I'm dying to toss some Vedalken Shackles in the sideboard.
We can build a myriade of decks with landstill. In legacy, people used to play the Suffocate role, like UR Landstill with 4 wastelands, 4 stifles and plenty of soft counters: i like this version, but this (in my vision) is not hard control.
On the other hand, UW(x) versions have better tools to play the hard control role - and i really think that landstill may take the former miracles place as the best hard control of legacy (so good as). That said, i don't think we need to play wastelands anymore or even 5 manlands: you need this when we are trying to pressure opponent's life total while disrupting his/her manabase.
Well.. I don't believe that any splash will help us more than the red splash, for the same reasons that miracles players used to stick on this version (and not esper or anything else): REB is way too strong on legacy, not to mention all the other strong cards that come along with reb, like blood moon (and the protection against this card) or wear/tear.
Also, Humility is in a very good place right now, with plenty of decks depending of creatures to win.
All that said, in my opinion, i think the UW version is just a worse version of the UWR and i think that the list i posted above is where we may continue developing this wonderful archetype.
About your list, i would add 4 snapcasters (we dont care if they die; we have to be happy everytime someone bolts, plows or decays him). I would add at least one councils judgement and one back to basics (if UWR, blood moon is better - on future, maybe only at sideboard). I would play 3 supreme verdicts.
And like you, i'm also in doubt about elspeth or gideon... About Sideboard, i would use meddling mage instead of vendilion clique, because the first may protect us with hardlock.. I'm using 3 meddling mages and 1 ethersworn canonist. Maybe we could try sanctum prelate, but i really think a well played meddling mage is just better.
About the impressions of my list, i'm realizing that Eldrazi is one of the toughest matchups.
I think both red and black offer good options. It really depends on the perceived meta.
Black offers Creeping Tar Pit and Fatal Push for the maindeck with various useful sideboard options like Engineered Plague. Lingering Souls is also decent, and plays extremely well with Humility.
Red is likely better, but I wouldn't dismiss the black splash so easily.
I like the idea of trying Nahiri + fatty, but that doesn't play nicely with Humility.
Also, I didn't put any Snapcasters in the list because of the anti-synergy with Humility. Snapcaster is a very strong card, no doubt, but I'm not sure that it's something that the deck needs. I could very well be wrong, I dunno.
I don't think I can afford to play Back to Basics with manlands. Wasteland seems much better suited. I'm fine with running 2 Wastelands instead of 2 other business spells because I want to be able to deal with utility lands, and making consistent land drops under Standstill is important.
EDIT: I could also see cutting 2 removal spells and the two white Planeswalkers for 4 Myth Realized. That could help the Storm matchup by giving this deck a clock. The Planeswalkers could go into the sideboard and come in for thr grindier matchups.
Maybe like...
-1 Elspeth
-1 Gideon
-2 Path to Exile
-1 EE
+4 Myth Realized
+1 Council's Judgment
I dunno...
Myth realized dies to decay, fatal push, swords AND wear/tear, disenchant, K grip, reclamation sage... This version already have good matchup against Ant (manlands, meddling mages, 4 snapcasters, 3 flusters, 2 surgicals, ethersworn...). Snap + fluster on grave is what we want.
We dont need to be so linear (with humility, no snapcaster; with manlands, no b2b). Per example, you play humility only after grind opponent resources with snapcaster; on ANT matchup, you need snapcaster, but side out humility; you play b2b only if it will win the match (against eldrazi, lands, some sort of delvers, nobleblade...). Also, i think that one nonblue planeswalker is good, to avoid REB.
Agree with what has been said.
UWR feels superior to UW.
Here's what i'm currently testing.
Main
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Standstill
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Keranos, God of Storms
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Wasteland
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Containment Priest
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
3 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
2 Pyroclasm
Comments
1) 4 bolts seem necessary, given the numerous Deathrites around, and our high reliance on Snapcaster mage for card quality.
2) Having that many 1 mana removal makes Standstill a more reliable turn 2 play. - however, Standstill is too clunky as a 4 of.
3) Clique only feels good against Storm / Combo & other hard control decks (which aren't going to be common moving forward), so let them in the side.
4) Deck is very slow. Controlling board isnt overly difficult, but closing out games are.
5) i really want to squeeze in a blood moon somewhere in the 15, but not sure if its necessary
6) Initally tested the deck with Mishra's factory, but dropped them. Fatal push and wastelands makes them really poor.
Matchups - compared to miracles (n=30)
1) Burn is a horrible matchup.
2) Eldrazi is still bad.
3) Infect is much easier.
4) Delver matchup feels 50-50. The bolts helps significantly. Wastelands give random wins. BUG feels easier than Grixis. Pyroclasm off the board makes alot of difference.
5) True Name Nemesis is an absolute pain, and is a must counter
6) Storm is not a horrible matchup. 4 bolts and snapcaster mage significantly weakens their Ad Nauseum. they have to respect bolt, SCM, bolt.
7) For some reason, have not come across Sneak Show.
LS necro FTW!
I think we should carefully brainstorm about the changes the international meta will undergo with Miracles being "banned", before pumping out lists that seem nice in a vacuum.
Some essential questions:
* What archetypes will benefit from Miracles absence, meaning whom will we face more than before? And what does that mean for our card choices?
* What will change about the tier 1 MDs?
* What topics need to be evaluated for the intermediate phase, while the dust is still settling?
* How can we benefit from the current chaos?
* How will the general meta develop in the long run?
Some assumptions:
* With Terminus gone, Aggro will certainly see a revival, making 4 MD sweepers mandatory.
* All decks will up their anti-Aggro slots, which is good for us!
* With CB gone, formerly frustrated, semi-talented Combo pilots will dust off their pet decks. Not sure what that means for us though (MD Clique?)
* Decks that preyed on Miracles will go down in numbers, or at least remodel their MDs.
* tbc
Have to run, but will be back soon! Let's collect assumptions and discuss away!
What am I missing? Are you really suggesting playing standstill just to take a breath, hope that your opponents breaks it and doesn't play manland himself?
As for fatal push making Mishras look bad, when I played landeed back in the 2011, I usually started attacking in late game, either when I had a standstill in play and could afford losing a couple mana, or the opponent was hellbent...
Landstill without mishras is like miracles without top. In some matchups we do not really want landstill, like lands or even d&t, but mishra's...
Save the Proletarian army (assembly-workers =P)!
That is so untrue.
Most decks in legacy need to take initiative to win. Take Delver for example. If you bolted his delver on turn 1, and landed a Standstill on turn 2. Do you really think we need manlands to pressure them to break it?
If we needed pressure, can we not EOT snapcaster, STP his only creature and then cast Standstill? Not once in the 30 or so games i've played have i needed to break it myself.
Unless you are playing LftL, manlands are very bad in the current meta. Crucible is very unreliable due to Abrupt Decay.
Well, sorry for being direct but you may create another topic to talk about lonely standstill.dec, but here is landstill and we must assume that the deck contains manlands :)
Even if mishra's gets wastelanded, they protect our manabase to keep controlling. When they are not, they provide cheap pressure.
I also think that crucible is not so good right now (maybe i would play him on the mana denial plan, with 4 stifles and 4 wastelands).
I have been testing and playing Landstill even in the years when Miracles was the clearly superior choice of blue control because I used to be so fond of the card Standstill and because I usually don't follow whatever the current mainstream (Miracles) is, but in a realistic assessement one would have to concede that with the powerlevel this format has reached, one simply cannot afford to play cards like Standstill that represent no answer to opponent's threats or do not alter the game state significantally otherwise especially since the range of strategies you have to be able to deal with is so wide. On top of that, manlands more than often seemed more of a disadvantage to me because mana stability is so crucical for cost-intensive decks like this one. I'm sincerely convinced that straight U/W Control with Jace and Fact or Fiction (!) as sources of CA is superior to any approaches with Standstill in todays enviroment. You guys should search this forum for the respective thread of the user 'Iron_Buddha' who came with some highly potent concepts almost 4 years ago.
I'm not too familiar with today's legacy though and I certainly don't want to discourage you guys from developing this deck, Standstill after all can still be effective at times.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)