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Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #5221

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Stefanogs -

    I'm really intrigued by the idea of using Standstill to replace Portent and Predict in the Miracles shell. I am thinking about trying this deck out but I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind.

    1) Have you had problems activating Terminus with only 4 BS, 4 Ponder, 2-3 Jace, and 2-3 SCM? Has that been enough to consistently find and cast Terminus when you need it?

    2) How did you arrive at your numbers for Wasteland and Mishra's Factory? My gut response is to go with 4 and 4, but I'm guessing that might be too heavy of a strain on the manabase and other cards. Could you explain a little how you arrived at your numbers?

    3) What do you think about Vendilion Clique and/or Spell Queller in the main for the 'crack Standstill in end step' scenario? If you need to crack your own Standstill then you can use Clique and get a little value out of it while putting a creature on the board, if your opponent tries to Brainstorm or something in your end step Spell Queller can let you counter it and get some value in the form of a body.

    I freely admit this is theory crafting at the moment so #2 and #3 above could definitely be bad ideas; I wanted to get some thoughts from you before diving right in, since you seem to have quite a bit of testing and experience with this deck.

  2. #5222

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by WinterRat1 View Post
    Stefanogs -

    I'm really intrigued by the idea of using Standstill to replace Portent and Predict in the Miracles shell. I am thinking about trying this deck out but I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind.

    1) Have you had problems activating Terminus with only 4 BS, 4 Ponder, 2-3 Jace, and 2-3 SCM? Has that been enough to consistently find and cast Terminus when you need it?

    2) How did you arrive at your numbers for Wasteland and Mishra's Factory? My gut response is to go with 4 and 4, but I'm guessing that might be too heavy of a strain on the manabase and other cards. Could you explain a little how you arrived at your numbers?

    3) What do you think about Vendilion Clique and/or Spell Queller in the main for the 'crack Standstill in end step' scenario? If you need to crack your own Standstill then you can use Clique and get a little value out of it while putting a creature on the board, if your opponent tries to Brainstorm or something in your end step Spell Queller can let you counter it and get some value in the form of a body.

    I freely admit this is theory crafting at the moment so #2 and #3 above could definitely be bad ideas; I wanted to get some thoughts from you before diving right in, since you seem to have quite a bit of testing and experience with this deck.

    Hey! I had the same concerns as you :) let me see each question..:

    1) My first version of landstill (You may check the list at page 259 or at the following link: http://i.imgur.com/2PQMTgr.jpg ...) used a very different removal package, with 3 Supreme Verdicts (well, Terminus was presumably dead, right?) and 2 Lightning bolts (and the 4 swords to plowshares). After several games, i did realize that supreme verdict is just too slow for some matchups, like eldrazi and delver (is just uncastable against grixis delver with stifle), and only terminus could give us fast board wipe.

    I have no problems to set up terminus with 4 ponder, 4 bs, 2 jace and 3 scm. Yes, it's worse than before, when we had top, and we can't do it at instant speed, but definitely is not bad... specially when we do Terminus + Standstill at the same turn (which is very hard with supreme verdict).

    2) My first version of landstill (right after ban) was with 22 lands: FOUR mishra's, ZERO wastelands, 2 tundra, 3 volcanics, 3 islands, TWO plains and 8 fetchs.

    Well, after i did realize that wasteland may help us to improve the control game (removing some lands that may kill our game plan, like thespian's stage and dark depths, cavern of souls, boseiju, eye of ugin and, specially, other man lands) or even fizzling the mana improve of the opponent.

    So, i moved to 23 lands, with 3 mishra's and 3 wastelands. Also, i cut one plains (we can't cut blue sources because we already run few)...

    Later, i realized that 23 lands is not optimized, so i cut one wasteland. Well, each change was preceded by several games and tests... So now, i'm with 22 lands again, with 3 mishra's (not four because we need to run wastelands and we need blue sources) and 2 wastelands....

    If we play fewer lands, there will be the often situation where we cast standstill and the opponent start drawing much more lands than us.


    3) The first idea of the deck was with 3 meddling mages instead of cliques, because i thought that, with the lack of counterbalance, we would need the mages to hard lock the opponents... well, i did realize that we still can "lock" without counterbalance, using standstill to refuel the hand and the hate cards (like surgical extraction) to get rid of recurring cards.. Also, i found that my play style is better fitted with vendilion clique, so i'm using the faeries since long time.

    My last version before daze was with 1 maindeck vendilion clique (-3 daze, +1 council's judgment, +1 wasteland +1 vendilion clique) and i think that is very good! If you like it, you should try md too =).. I just moved to sideboard because we can't play less than 3 mentors and 3 snapcasters: the first is the best kill condition, and is our great change against burn, lands and other matchups... the second is the best control creature ever printed... i'm looking to play with 4 snapcaster again.


    :) !! Give this list a chance =)

  3. #5223

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    What are your thoughts on

    as a one of possibly replacing Thragtusk in this deck?

    It immediately generates value by getting you a fetchland from the yard, creating an additional 5/3 token while also ramping your mana so that Elderscale Wurm becomes hardcastable. If you happen to have a Dryad Arbor in play and a way to sac it, you get yet another 5/3. And if it sticks around to see a few more fetchlands, it can quickly get out of control. If you can cycle Dryad Arbors with Meren and Therapies, it becomes ridiculous but that's probably just win more. Overall seems much stronger than Thragtusk, no?

  4. #5224
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    What are your thoughts on

    as a one of possibly replacing Thragtusk in this deck?

    It immediately generates value by getting you a fetchland from the yard, creating an additional 5/3 token while also ramping your mana so that Elderscale Wurm becomes hardcastable. If you happen to have a Dryad Arbor in play and a way to sac it, you get yet another 5/3. And if it sticks around to see a few more fetchlands, it can quickly get out of control. If you can cycle Dryad Arbors with Meren and Therapies, it becomes ridiculous but that's probably just win more. Overall seems much stronger than Thragtusk, no?
    My thoughts are, is this for a different thread? XD
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  5. #5225

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Guys some thought: i love my build, it's intriguing and roundup, but it seems that the deck struggle in the endgame area. Some idea?

    And, another thing: there's someone who's streaming uwx landstill at the moment? I really need to understand how more experienced players pilot this baby.

    Thanks!

  6. #5226

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    5-0 today with Still Miracles:

    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Counterspell
    3 Terminus
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Tundra
    4 Force of Will
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Monastery Mentor
    3 Standstill
    3 Island
    1 Plains
    3 Mishra's Factory
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Lightning Bolt
    3 Daze

    1 Containment Priest
    2 Wear/Tear
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Humility
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Null Rod
    2 Flusterstorm

  7. #5227
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefanogs View Post
    5-0 today with Still Miracles:
    Cool list :D

    What matchups did you face? would you change anything?

  8. #5228

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by owerbart View Post
    Cool list :D

    What matchups did you face? would you change anything?
    Well, indeed i feel the deck to be very strong, but i stopped playing it right now because grixis delver is one of the worst matchups. :(

  9. #5229

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Won an Underground Sea at an Eternal Weekend trial.

    Report is here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...65#post1025965

    Deck felt pretty sick. Search for Azcanta is the real deal.

  10. #5230

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zllig View Post
    Won an Underground Sea at an Eternal Weekend trial.

    Report is here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...65#post1025965

    Deck felt pretty sick. Search for Azcanta is the real deal.
    Thanks a lot for the great tournament report. The deck looks sweet, I like the idea of Emrakul the Promised End and I'm excited to try out Search for Azcanta. Going to try to combine it with Stefanogs's Terminus build and put Terminus in place of Supreme Verdict and at least some of the EE, we'll see what happens.

  11. #5231
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    So i threw the list together and it feels fun as fuck search is a house when active, I had trimmed the emmy but ill prob add back in asap.
    I think we can almost cut the etutor and be better off at 60, also threw a dust bowl in the sb for longer games instead of moon.

  12. #5232

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Finally had a chance to sleeve this up for a local FNM and test it out. The deck felt really fun, I had a great time playing it!

    My list took some elements of Stefanogs Still Miracles and Zllig's list. I eschewed the Red Splash mostly because my Volcanics and Tarns were tied up in another legacy deck and I didn't really have time to sort them out and resleeve, so I went straight UW mostly for real life time considerations.

    Going forward, I will probably opt for the red splash just because the REB effects are too powerful to leave out. I could have really used one against Tezzeret, for instance. I also think Abrade is a very versatile card that would fit well in the board. On the other hand, it was really nice not having to worry about juggling mana quite so much, so there's that factor that makes me wonder if I should keep it simple and stay with two colors.


    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Force of Will
    2 Counterspell
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare

    4 Terminus
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Council's Judgment

    3 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Emrakul, the Promised End

    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    3 Standstill
    1 Search for Azcanta

    4 Tundra
    4 Island
    2 Plains
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand

    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Disenchant
    1 Humility
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Wasteland

    A few notes:

    1. Emrakul, the Promised End easily felt like the worst card in my deck. I never wanted it in my opening hand. Every time I drew it or saw it with a cantrip, I didn't want it. Any time I did want it and was actually in a position to cast it, I was already winning the game with Jace or Snap/Mishra's. It does nothing to turn the game around if I'm losing, and it feels like a case of win-more when I'm finally ready to play it. I jammed a few practice games after the FNM with a second Search for Azcanta in its place, and I liked that change a lot.

    2. Speaking of Search for Azcanta, that card is awesome. The extra filtering of draws can be very helpful, dumping cards I don't want preemptively and not having to draw them, and after it is flipped, the card is just nuts. A Scry 4 that can grab anything in my deck except Snapcaster and lands? Yes, please! I loved the singleton when I had it, and I liked running a second one in my test games even more. The card advantage and filtering at instant speed is amazing, and the fact that it taps for mana is just bonus. On top of that, because of the man lands opponents can't just Wasteland it willy nilly, they have to actually make some choices about stopping that or shutting down the Factories. Definitely liking that card going forward.

    3. I thought about Wasteland in the main, but I'm not going for the mana denial route with this deck; it's more of a traditional Miracle draw-go control deck that uses Standstill in place of Predict to both slow the game down and as a source of card advantage , so Wasteland is pretty much only there for cards like Dark Depths and Inkmoth Nexus, as additional and more efficient forms of removal.

    4. I see the appeal of a high-end finisher like Emrakul, I was thinking of using Elspeth KE or Gideon AOZ to take the role, or maybe even a Sphinx of the Last Word if I feel like getting really out there. Any thoughts on this?

    Thanks to Stefanogs for showing the idea of Standstill combined with Miracles was viable, and to Zllig for adding some really interesting ideas, specifically Search for Azcanta. Looking forward to seeing where the development of this deck takes me!

  13. #5233

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I've been brewing up an esper version and was hoping for some feedback before I take it through some leagues.

    Black seems to offer DRS which t1 DRS -> t2 still requires an answer, and also provides access to several of the strong black planeswalkers.

    In addition, it offers some nice sideboard cards in discard/surgical and deluge.

    Right now, the one offs seem a bit scattered, and I'd love some help with focusing the list a bit.

    Thanks!

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/812801#online

  14. #5234

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Hi dude,

    I am also building an esper Landstill Deck right now and I'll Share my experience I have Made so far. Won 3 Smalltalk sized Tournaments and 1 friday Night legacy so far in the past 2 months and although my list is quite different, I think I can give you some advice. The First one being: Play Terminus. I don't believe it is possible to run a good UW(x) landstill deck with less then 4 Mass removals. You will end up dieng to death and taxes (also in some Extend elves, goblins, merfolk, Maverick,... )which you can not afford. Also Cabal Therapy + mishra's factory is insane you might concider that.
    Concerning your list, I think adding some number of humilities and maybe Cut the emrakul might be appropriate. I play emrakul in my list but your seems very Planeswalker heavy.

    Despite those Aspekts you and I Share a Lot of cards in Common such as 1 search/1 emrakul/21 Lands/1 councils judgment.
    My list plays crucible of worlds and explosives though. Is there a particular reason for the 1off Ghost quarter instead of Wasteland?

  15. #5235

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Hey, thanks for the feedback! I was actually in between two version of the deck, and it kinda came across as a mishmash of the two. One being the more mana denialy version, one being the more PW focused list. Originally the GQ was in there because with the prevalence of duals + crucible, being able to kill their basics seemed useful. I think you're definitely right in the terminus though. I've since updated the list to a bit more streamlined version.

    Any thoughts on the PW package? Seems like the occasional gideon is nice for combo/control, but lili seems best with the core resource denial plan of the deck. Obvious JTMS is the GOAT.
    I'm thinking the 1/1/2 is nice for MB, then maybe 2/3 in SB for specific matchups.

    I'd love to get peoples thoughts on what they'd run. in the 6 or so PW slots.

    Updated list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/812801#online

  16. #5236

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I have 1 more question. How is the deathrite Shaman working Out. I concidered playing him because he is obviously an amazing card but never actually tried him in landstill, because of the Turn one counter/removal Turn 2 standstill.

  17. #5237

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I haven't been playing standstill in legacy for very long, but it seems super strong.

    A T1 DRS in my experience has led to one of the following:
    They have to waste an answer on it, then you T2 standstill like in your situation
    They play their own 1CMC threat, many of which aren't as powerful as DRS, and with access to 3 mana you now have access to standstill + removal/protection or you can slam one of the PWs.

    Lots of ways to force card advantage, or end up with a super powerful board state.

    One note, I ended up pulling emmy because of the natural tension with DRS. And to a certain extent, was pulling crucible for the same reason.

  18. #5238

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Hey again!

    Just 5-0 with Still Miracles hehehe. I played two leagues, but the first league (3-2) played with 6-7 different cards. Never tried Myth Realized before, big big mistake, it's so good!

    5-0 UW Still Miracles
    R1: BUG Delver (nd7020): 2-1
    R2: Dragon Stompy (justgetdown): 2-0
    R3: Sneak and Show (Ecoscuro): 2-1
    R4: Grixis Delver (shaka8): 2-1
    R5: UW Azcanta Miracles (towerjac): 2-1


    Still Miracles 2.0 (UW, for the sake of the lands):
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Tundra
    4 Force of Will
    4 Standstill
    2 Plains
    5 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Arid Mesa
    3 Mishra's Factory
    3 Daze
    2 Counterspell
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Terminus
    4 Myth Realized

    SB:
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Null Rod
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Blessed Alliance
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Disenchant
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Humility
    1 Ethersworn Canonist

  19. #5239
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @Stefanogs seems structurally weak to Wasteland. You've got Daze, Standstill, Counterspell and then Myth Realized - opening up Fetch Tundra has to be pretty suspect and opening basic Plains, equally bad. There's this perfect storm brewing where you can't get on the Standstill plan. Mentor is the higher quality wincon, particularly given Ponder in the list, that doesn't undermine the deck's plan right from the start.

  20. #5240
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @Stefanogs, LOVE this list! Thought about maindecking the Humility? Always thought it better in the main before the option of SB enchantment removal from your opponent and the interaction with Myth is awesome + it's so good against so many decks at this moment (at least in my meta). Was thinking about Replacing 2 Myths with 1x Humility and 1x Enlightened Tutor. This could slow down the deck to much though, but I don't really think there is a point in trying to outrace the current meta anyways. Thoughts?

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