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Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #5341
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    I still don't understand why you don't play a Academy Ruins with Crucible, EE and Tolaria in your list, especially now that you have open space left. If you think that it's an odd suggestion I suggest you guys look a bit deeper in this thread and consider some of the older lists where this combo has been staple for the longest time. Please remember that this is a control/lategame deck and that you should have some source of inevitability in such decks to make sense.
    I like it, I can try it out. It has more to do with it being a colorless land than anything else. I already cut on Wastelands and Factories because the mana is unstable, so adding yet another colorless source is dangerous. I could definitely try it, but with only EE to recur I don't think it's worth it. I suppose I could run a sideboard Tormod's Crypt, but Rest in Peace is so much better.

    I don't see the synergy as that important, good for sure, but slow as balls. Crucible gets me recurring Wastelands, reuses fetchlands, and lets me aggressively trade Factories. Engineered Explosives is great, but is it enough? Maybe. It puts a lot of stock into the graveyard, stock I don't know if I can wager money on.

    So this is what I'll try:

    +1 Snap
    +1 Academy Ruins
    +1 Myth Realized (I want to try it as a singleton fetch target. Multiples are bad, so maybe just 1 to fetch?)

    I'll make the changes and re-post, I think I'll play this Friday at FNM. If ruins fucks up my mana I'm going straight to Search for Azcanta until something better comes along.
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  2. #5342
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    Given the creatures you play I would give a shot to
    +1 Snapcaster Mage
    +1 Riptide Laboratory
    +1/2 Cavern of Souls
    Do you think Riptide is better than Karakas? It has the same problem as academy ruins where it doesn't make colored mana. I haven't combined Karakas + Clique/Venser yet, but I know it's great synergy. Riptide seems good, but I don't know if I could afford that and Ruins. It would have to be one or the other, and ATM I'm leaning towards Ruins.
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  3. #5343

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Well Academy Ruins job is also to recur Crucible itself. The point is that Crucible, Ruins, Tolaria and EE all mutually protect and improve each other. Recurring Crucible is important since artifacts aren't very reliable these days due to stuff like KCommand, Decay or Trophy.

  4. #5344

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Do you think Riptide is better than Karakas? It has the same problem as academy ruins where it doesn't make colored mana. I haven't combined Karakas + Clique/Venser yet, but I know it's great synergy. Riptide seems good, but I don't know if I could afford that and Ruins. It would have to be one or the other, and ATM I'm leaning towards Ruins.
    Well, firstly, as you read on the other thread, im not so sure about the deck in general.

    Still, I can see recurring mainly snapcaster being good, and cavern would be pretty amazing mainly against miracle.
    By adding what I suggested and what other suggested you are mainly getting an advantage against slower decks, while having possibly a much worst outcome against delver/taxes.
    So the first thing would be consider your percentages against the meta, what do you feel you need more tools against?
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  5. #5345
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I don't see how Academy Ruins grants inevitability. I mean sure, you can recur [insert self-killing artifact], but Teferi does the whole never deck out thing on a card that does something by itself, this is generally less self-destructive when having RiP in the board.

    [I don't agree with the whole Crucible Tolaria aspect of @Mr.Safety's list, see previous posts] Advocating for another colorless land is not normal. Do you have some significantly different build? As is, the Academy suggestion conflicts with most to all iterations of UW Standstill in legacy and vintage which have been played to success. In the legacy format, you're inevitable for the most part once Teferi is double activating Azcanta, playing around decking with -3, and potentially sitting behind an emblem as well.

    Standstill has early game stabilization, the CA do nothing plan, 2/1 beats, and some kind of walker plan. Where does Academy add novel benefit that outweighs something like the oops I win b/c Mentor. Interested to see the other parts you're surrounding Academy with @Erdvermanpfa.

  6. #5346
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctalor View Post
    Well, firstly, as you read on the other thread, im not so sure about the deck in general.

    Still, I can see recurring mainly snapcaster being good, and cavern would be pretty amazing mainly against miracle.
    By adding what I suggested and what other suggested you are mainly getting an advantage against slower decks, while having possibly a much worst outcome against delver/taxes.
    So the first thing would be consider your percentages against the meta, what do you feel you need more tools against?
    It feels incredibly strong right now, I've tested a bunch against Depths and Burn. I have tier decks proxied up, so my next steps are to test against Grixis Delver, Grixis Control, Miracles, Death and Taxes, Show and Tell, and Eldrazi.

    I feel that as the game goes longer the deck can just crush, but it's getting past the early-mid game. I do agree that D&T and Delver likely need to be tested extensively.
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  7. #5347
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Lets say I cut the ETutor package and put it into the sideboard (2x ET, 1x EE, 1x DS, 1x CoW), that frees up 5 full slots. Without Crucible main I would likely drop the Wastelands as well.

    What would I put in there? The sense I'm getting is that this is too far off the beaten path, so I'm going to streamline it. These are the cards I will change:

    -2 Enlightened Tutor
    -1 Engineered Explosives
    -1 Detention Sphere
    -1 Crucible of Worlds
    -2 Wasteland

    +2 Search for Azcanta
    +1 Path to Exile (main)
    +1 fetchland
    +1 Mishra's Factory
    +2 ???????? (Council's Judgment, Teferi, Spell Snare, Ponder?)

    Sideboard would change drastically:

    2x Enlightened Tutor
    1x Engineered Explosives
    1x Ethersworn Canonist
    1x Rest in Peace
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Detention Sphere
    1x Humility
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Hydroblast (until I get Flusterstorm)
    2x Disenchant
    1x Blessed Alliance
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  8. #5348
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    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 01-21-2019 at 07:40 AM.
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  9. #5349
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Have been doing very well with this list locally with a pair of 3-1's and tempting someone else to build the deck!

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Island
    1 Karakas
    3 Mishra's Factory
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Plains
    2 Tundra
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Wasteland
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Council's Judgment
    1 Counterspell
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Engineered Explosives
    4 Force of Will
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Monastery Mentor
    2 Ponder
    2 Search for Azcanta
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Standstill
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Vendilion Clique

    Sideboard:
    1 Blessed Alliance
    1 Celestial Purge
    1 Disenchant
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Fragmentize
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Supreme Verdict
    2 Surgical Extraction
    The Doomsday Codex



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  10. #5350

    [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Just miracles with wastelands and worse removal. Seems worse.

  11. #5351
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Just miracles with wastelands and worse removal. Seems worse.
    Some issues exist with the build, dislike: the Volc, lack of wrath effects (looking at Crucible & EE stealing slots, to a lesser extent at Path), and there are questionable amounts of copies (Mentor, Cspell, Pierce, PW).

    Standstill has a set amount of value it can generate (assuming it creates a favorable board before casting), whereas Counterbalance can be fired off at any time [no setup], without any symmetrical backlash, and anywhere from zero to limitless value. Choosing 2x Path + 2x EE over say Terminus [x3] and cantrip is a fairly minor point. One of those cards is “UU: win the game,” so ofc it’s better. The question we test when we play Standstill is “how well does hard control function in legacy” - we already know Counterbalance-combo (miracles) is the best way to win with Tundra (and CB should be banned, but w/e). Pointing out that miracles is better than Standstill doesn’t change that you’re comparing control to a combo deck people mistakingly qualify as control.

  12. #5352
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Just miracles with wastelands and worse removal. Seems worse.
    Against a wide open field I would say it's a little worse, but against some decks it's better. I think the weak spot is Wasteland: if it's good, the deck is amazing. If Wasteland isn't good, the deck spins it's wheels. It's actually a very important angle of attack for this deck to be viable. Otherwise it's better to just play Miracles.
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  13. #5353
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
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  14. #5354
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Thats more of a bant deck.

  15. #5355

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Pointing out that miracles is better than Standstill doesn’t change that you’re comparing control to a combo deck people mistakingly qualify as control.
    Is this a joke that I'm out of the loop on, or what?

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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoOccisor View Post
    Is this a joke that I'm out of the loop on, or what?
    Gotta read the posts you're quoting from. UW Standstill is draw-go control, miracles is Counterbalance combo. The reason we don't see real control decks in legacy (and also don't really see Ux strict 2c decks) is because of the card Counterbalance. When a deck has a massive value engine (in this case CB), and that value engine is the only thing you really care about, it's a combo deck.

    There is a lesser point about JTMS not being a draw-go control card; generally only showing up in Counterbalance combo or the tap-out & jam archetype (this same deck has many names: Shardless, Grixis "control," Blade...). Draw-go generally cares more about card quantity (preferably while winning, ex. Teferi) than the idea of Brainstorm every turn to fix hand or digging towards some way to win (or combo off of CB or a miracle card). Given the thread we're in, it's important to point out that JTMS is pretty anemic under a Standstill. JTMS does however show up in this deck when one deviates from hard control (playing higher variance wincons than Mentor with more slots, ex. Myth Realized), and also in Vintage where 4 vs 5 mana can matter more (ex. Land + Lotus openers) and the ability to draw raw cards for (Ancestral, TC) adds incentive to dig towards a specific card.

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