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Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #5381
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Island x4
    Plains x2
    Tundra x1
    Karakas x1
    Strand x4
    Vista x4
    Mishra's Factory x3
    Wasteland x3

    SCM x3
    Mentor x1

    small Teferi x2
    big Teferi x2
    Standstill x4
    Azcanta x2
    Brainstorm x4
    Portent x4
    Plow x4
    FoW x4
    Terminus x3
    Spell Snare x2
    FoN x1
    CJ x1
    Noxious x1

    SB
    E Tutor x1
    B2B x1
    RiP x1
    Humility x1
    Canonist x1 (change to Deafening Silence)
    C Priest x2
    Hydroblast x2
    Powder Keg x1
    Disenchant x1
    Ashiok x1
    Sacred Ground x1
    Spiritual Focus x1
    Aegis of Honor x1 (last 3 here change often)

    Haven't played this deck since Scroll of Fate became legal, recent printings dictate UW Dreadstill is better positioned (better able to maximize small Teferi).
    In this meta with the depths decks....you need to play blood moon

  2. #5382
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Um, no. No reason to turn off Karakas and Wastelands. As built, that list rarely loses to Depths.

    There is no reason to destabilize my list's mana to run a card I don't even want on the table...which also allows opponent to make a Lage with land drop [Depths into Moon] + removal for Moon.

  3. #5383
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Um, no. No reason to turn off Karakas and Wastelands. As built, that list rarely loses to Depths.

    There is no reason to destabilize my list's mana to run a card I don't even want on the table...which also allows opponent to make a Lage with land drop [Depths into Moon] + removal for Moon.
    True...with 4 plows and 3 snaps. Thats plenty of ammo

  4. #5384
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    True...with 4 plows and 3 snaps. Thats plenty of ammo
    Those seven cards do something yes...

    Then you add Karakas and Wasteland, then you add Portent/Terminus, then you add 3cmc Teferi (which is where the overkill begins, see also no more Crop Rot). The complete denial of Crop Rot response [Teferi] paired with Wasteland is a key difference between Standstill and any other 3x SCM/4x Plow deck. Even when those other decks [mis]use Teferi, their manabase [land count] will struggle to hardcast a Terminus at instant speed post-Teferi (ofc they also lack a plan to navigate this matchup to this point).

    You get to the SB games and in come ~6 cards that are going to offer direct challenges to the Depths gameplan, on top of all the stuff the maindeck was already doing to them. Let's take a quick look over at Depths SB and make a note of how little Choke can do to an Azcanta +/- 5cmc Teferi and how useless Veil of Summer really is against 3cmc Teferi. About the only thing Depths does that can reliably matter is copy Factory and play the manland subgame...which is only a possibility if the Standstill pilot actually deploys one.

    When you have discard [vs Brainstorm subgame] to try and break up Plow, Snap-Plow but you run into the Wasteland subgame into upkeep Terminus/Teferi/any number of nightmarish effects, the Depths player really has no great window of opportunity to go for it. Even if they try a Hexmage assassination, they're down 1 Lage-maker and Teferi is still alive while the ability is on the stack...so Waste your Stage or Depths, force them to make the 20/20 into Plow with locked-out Crop Rot. This build takes the opponent's skill and experience on Depths and invalidates it - it's not just that Moon is a wrong idea, but that by playing it you would be actively helping your opponent by giving them an out.

  5. #5385
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I dont think UW needs blood moon to deal with a marit lege. The deck already has swords+snap and whatever you bring in postboard. Plus they cant do anything about a baby teferi
    UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    EDIT: and Roodmistah. If Dreadstill sucks then he's been mopping up the East Coast with a "crap" deck and making you all look bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    "Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

  6. #5386

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Island x4
    Plains x2
    Tundra x1
    Karakas x1
    Strand x4
    Vista x4
    Mishra's Factory x3
    Wasteland x3

    SCM x3
    Mentor x1

    small Teferi x2
    big Teferi x2
    Standstill x4
    Azcanta x2
    Brainstorm x4
    Portent x4
    Plow x4
    FoW x4
    Terminus x3
    Spell Snare x2
    FoN x1
    CJ x1
    Noxious x1

    SB
    E Tutor x1
    B2B x1
    RiP x1
    Humility x1
    Canonist x1 (change to Deafening Silence)
    C Priest x2
    Hydroblast x2
    Powder Keg x1
    Disenchant x1
    Ashiok x1
    Sacred Ground x1
    Spiritual Focus x1
    Aegis of Honor x1 (last 3 here change often)

    Haven't played this deck since Scroll of Fate became legal, recent printings dictate UW Dreadstill is better positioned (better able to maximize small Teferi).
    Thanks! Couple interesting card choices, changes I would make -

    Azcantra vs Narset, partner of Veils
    Big teferi vs Jace, TMS

    What do you think?

    Also what is noxious?

  7. #5387
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Narset has issues with tapping out, getting to Impulse, then dying to Bolt. You're also putting a card in hand for an opponent to discard. Narset is good against monarch mechanic, Grisel (if you get to this point), and enchantress. She's rather average in blue mirrors as she will likely be taken down in combat.

    I think that JTMS does precious little behind a Standstill. Also, I like ignoring Choke and being able to mitigate B2B (I would not run this in the board otherwise). JTMS is always going to be fine b/c he can draw cards, but he's meant for combo decks [Counterbalance] and tap-out-and-jam [Czech Pile types: Shardless, Blade, Grixis, 4c Wrenn, etc...]. If you're playing Myth Realized or constructing a non-harmonious deck (for example playing >2 Mentor, a card which is its own worst topdeck), then JTMS is better used.

    The combination of cutting Azcanta and big Teferi is a linked choice away from a strategy of getting the most out of higher land counts. This likely puts a sequence into motion where you move towards Myth Realized, and potentially also towards Verdict (i.e. the never running into DnT gambit). Once you've lost the bigger land focus, you're playing mostly the same strategy as miracles...except your deck has more variance with manlands and Standstill [which can't be spammed into any board state like a Counterbalance].

    If you're running JTMS in Standstill, it kinda has to be your only viable option for payoff. That's mostly UB Standstill; it should also be noted that they just gained Murderous Rider which you can just recur to hand with JTMS [-1], so they're at a point where Jace has never been better for them.

    Noxious = Noxious Revival.

  8. #5388
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Island x4
    Plains x2
    Tundra x1
    Karakas x1
    Strand x4
    Vista x4
    Mishra's Factory x3
    Wasteland x3

    SCM x3
    Mentor x1

    small Teferi x2
    big Teferi x2
    Standstill x4
    Azcanta x2
    Brainstorm x4
    Portent x4
    Plow x4
    FoW x4
    Terminus x3
    Spell Snare x2
    FoN x1
    CJ x1
    Noxious x1

    SB
    E Tutor x1
    B2B x1
    RiP x1
    Humility x1
    Canonist x1 (change to Deafening Silence)
    C Priest x2
    Hydroblast x2
    Powder Keg x1
    Disenchant x1
    Ashiok x1
    Sacred Ground x1
    Spiritual Focus x1
    Aegis of Honor x1 (last 3 here change often)

    Haven't played this deck since Scroll of Fate became legal, recent printings dictate UW Dreadstill is better positioned (better able to maximize small Teferi).
    Why do you believe UW is better?

  9. #5389
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Why do you believe UW is better?
    I think we were talking about Marit Lage matchup, so going to answer why I think UW Standstill is better than any other UW deck vs Depths (though I think I answered this satisfactorily last time):

    The other UW decks are less likely to run Wasteland, Karakas, and as many instant speed wrath-enablers (Portent and small Teferi). By itself, small Teferi butchers Crop Rot and Veil of Summer, which are responsible for boosting Depths‘ win %. Standstill has no problem running the not-Decay‘able Humility. Big Teferi + Azcanta means there is little to no reason to fight the Choke copies the opponent will be diluting deck with, and tapping out for. The end-game is big Teferi ult; if it gets to this point Depths has zero outs.

    Every other UW deck has Swords and SCM (except for RiP/Helm, should be no SCM there), so they‘re all on the “hope this is good enough and please don‘t Surgical my Plows“ plan as well...but they don‘t have a solved late-game they get to work towards, where they win by default. Their on-board (i.e. not-discardable) tools/prison elements are worse.

  10. #5390
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I think we were talking about Marit Lage matchup, so going to answer why I think UW Standstill is better than any other UW deck vs Depths (though I think I answered this satisfactorily last time):

    The other UW decks are less likely to run Wasteland, Karakas, and as many instant speed wrath-enablers (Portent and small Teferi). By itself, small Teferi butchers Crop Rot and Veil of Summer, which are responsible for boosting Depths‘ win %. Standstill has no problem running the not-Decay‘able Humility. Big Teferi + Azcanta means there is little to no reason to fight the Choke copies the opponent will be diluting deck with, and tapping out for. The end-game is big Teferi ult; if it gets to this point Depths has zero outs.

    Every other UW deck has Swords and SCM (except for RiP/Helm, should be no SCM there), so they‘re all on the “hope this is good enough and please don‘t Surgical my Plows“ plan as well...but they don‘t have a solved late-game they get to work towards, where they win by default. Their on-board (i.e. not-discardable) tools/prison elements are worse.
    I see but do u think the dreadnought version is better right now with scroll

  11. #5391
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Oh that, a little off topic for this thread but UW Standstill ran out of slots is the main issue. You can't not play small Teferi, but each one you add makes deck worse vs TNN and Burn (no more room for Blessed Alliance). You can't really cut the big mana/big Teferi+Azcanta+Standstill pieces due to need to keep pace with Wrenn*. About the only area left to cut is the Portents, which means we'd need a combination ban of Terminus and Vial, allowing us to play Verdict x3 and gain ~1-2x slots [cuts to Portent] for cards targeted at Wrenn. It's just not really acceptable to have Vial/Thalia/Port + flood the board with dudes running around immune to wrath, from a game design standpoint. The other option would be to print a wrath at instant speed so you can stop the Port nonsense (Settle the Wreckage was a whiff).

    When it comes to Dreadnought + Standstill, it's just better a better deck at maximizing small Teferi's passive. Scroll of Fate + Teferi is comical, and Dreadnought is far better at playing colorless/white mana hands + pitch spells. You also get to drop big Teferi for Karn, and you just randomly destroy helpless combo and Chalice decks - and all this time you're playing around REB, without losing access to murdering lands with your PW [particularly lands that tap for say...red]. The whole Karn -> Coating -> bounce a Walker with Teferi or animate + Plow any problem permanent is just dumb. Against linear decks without shields you have more ways to just 2-tap em out of the game happening before a Mentor would have started his first attack.

    Value piles have always struggled against something as simple as unending parade of EoT 2/2s. If UW Standstill had a velocity positive way of tutoring a Field of the Dead effect, maybe it would fill the void against the not-Delver Wrenn users, though even that would be high variance against the Wrenn/Wasteland stuff. As it stands a card like Dawn of Hope is nowhere near competitively-costed [and I don't like dies to Spell Snare on such a bailout-style card], but that'd be the kind of card text we'd need to see. Who knows, maybe the next Elspeth will adequately do this at 3 mana without being blue. Gideon can't pull double duty against Burn; no lifelink and 4 mana is too slow.

    *This bigger mana contraption that combines to recreate virtual Griselbrand (draw for turn + azcanta + big Teferi + drop Standstill + untap and re-fire Azcanta = 7 cards) is what makes the deck the deck sufficiently different from Counterbalance combo. While Standstill is a "bad" deck (i.e. inconsistency traded for raw power), it is not a "worse" deck than something that already exists. The "worse" trap is best exemplified by every UWx Blade deck ever made, which will ever be a way to win less games than Counterbalance or Czech Pile-type deck.

  12. #5392

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Oh that, a little off topic for this thread but UW Standstill ran out of slots is the main issue. You can't not play small Teferi, but each one you add makes deck worse vs TNN and Burn (no more room for Blessed Alliance). You can't really cut the big mana/big Teferi+Azcanta+Standstill pieces due to need to keep pace with Wrenn*. About the only area left to cut is the Portents, which means we'd need a combination ban of Terminus and Vial, allowing us to play Verdict x3 and gain ~1-2x slots [cuts to Portent] for cards targeted at Wrenn. It's just not really acceptable to have Vial/Thalia/Port + flood the board with dudes running around immune to wrath, from a game design standpoint. The other option would be to print a wrath at instant speed so you can stop the Port nonsense (Settle the Wreckage was a whiff).

    When it comes to Dreadnought + Standstill, it's just better a better deck at maximizing small Teferi's passive. Scroll of Fate + Teferi is comical, and Dreadnought is far better at playing colorless/white mana hands + pitch spells. You also get to drop big Teferi for Karn, and you just randomly destroy helpless combo and Chalice decks - and all this time you're playing around REB, without losing access to murdering lands with your PW [particularly lands that tap for say...red]. The whole Karn -> Coating -> bounce a Walker with Teferi or animate + Plow any problem permanent is just dumb. Against linear decks without shields you have more ways to just 2-tap em out of the game happening before a Mentor would have started his first attack.

    Value piles have always struggled against something as simple as unending parade of EoT 2/2s. If UW Standstill had a velocity positive way of tutoring a Field of the Dead effect, maybe it would fill the void against the not-Delver Wrenn users, though even that would be high variance against the Wrenn/Wasteland stuff. As it stands a card like Dawn of Hope is nowhere near competitively-costed [and I don't like dies to Spell Snare on such a bailout-style card], but that'd be the kind of card text we'd need to see. Who knows, maybe the next Elspeth will adequately do this at 3 mana without being blue. Gideon can't pull double duty against Burn; no lifelink and 4 mana is too slow.

    *This bigger mana contraption that combines to recreate virtual Griselbrand (draw for turn + azcanta + big Teferi + drop Standstill + untap and re-fire Azcanta = 7 cards) is what makes the deck the deck sufficiently different from Counterbalance combo. While Standstill is a "bad" deck (i.e. inconsistency traded for raw power), it is not a "worse" deck than something that already exists. The "worse" trap is best exemplified by every UWx Blade deck ever made, which will ever be a way to win less games than Counterbalance or Czech Pile-type deck.
    Any updates post the Wrenn ban? I was looking at a myth realized build and it looks quite fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  13. #5393
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @Puggl3 no updates at this time. The slots are still too tight to deal with Oko profitably. Right now the Wastelands aren't at their best, but you also can't cut really them b/c of Depths. It's really rough, but I think the best thing you can do is cut Wasteland down to 2x and add a Volc for SB Blast x3. There's maybe the option to go down to no Wasteland, add 2x Trop and play your own Okos and SB Veil, but it seems kinda sketchy. The green approach is probably better (lifegain vs Burn and UR Delver), but I feel like Oko is getting banned in like 2 announcements so I won't advise buying him (and by proxy, zero interest in misleading people to buy ~2x Trop to enable a card I think is already on the way out).

    On the banning stuff, lots of people are saying "ban Astrolabe," but the issue with that is that it would be a gigantic boosting of BUG Delver to the best Oko deck; and we just banned Wrenn to 'nerf' a best Delver deck...really don't think we're going to see BUG Delver boosted to tier 1 (or possibly tier 0). Oko is the ban here, and it leads to huge downward regulation of Astrolabe, which then cascades down to no more widespread playing of Teferi [3cmc].

    I really don't like the REB approach off a Volc, but yes you can do it and it won't cost $100 (or w/e the going rate on 2x Oko is). In UW Landstill you'd be heavily incentivized to counter Oko on the stack with REB (can't let him animate an Astrolabe and snipe a Teferi or get a threat before you are about to Standstill), and despite it being a red card it will still lose decisively to Veil. I think it's still Dreadstill as the best UW Landstill list at this time.

  14. #5394
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Legacy_Council (Ark4n11) streamed UWr Standstill yesterday with @TheSemiotician and myself on the group call to a 4-1 finish. League was Cat, Snake, Kraken, Cat, Elves! - loss to Snake. The VoD can be found on Twitch (can’t link on ipad)

    List was:
    [21 land]
    4x Vista
    4x Strand
    4x Snow-Island
    2x Snow-Plains
    1x Tundra
    1x Karakas
    3x Factory
    2x Wasteland

    [3 creature]
    3x SCM

    [4 PWs]
    2x Teferi 3cmc
    2x Teferi 5cmc

    [32 spells]
    4x FoW
    4x Portent
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Plow
    3x Terminus
    3x Standstill
    2x FoN
    1x Snare
    1x CJ
    1x Shark’nado
    1x Astrolabe
    1x Sevinne’s
    1x E Tutor
    1x Azcanta
    1x Noxious

    SB all 1-ofs:
    C. Priest
    Mentor
    Deafening Silence
    B2B
    RiP
    Snow-Mountain
    REB
    Pyroblast
    Active Volcano
    Powder Keg
    Blessed Alliance
    Stony Silence
    Humility
    Ashiok
    Surgical

    Ran on my UW skeleton [updated with Dreadstill tech] with TheSemiotician’s cycle-Turtle build. He was running into trouble with inability to run Wasteland with 3c (cycle-Turtle is a legend, and lots of Karakas around), so we shifted back to the hard control shell without maindeck red. The deck still has some issues with lack of slots resulting in missing tools, but as long as Oko is hating out budget Delver (UR) and Burn, and Lurrus decks being unable to beat Terminus while drastically dropping TNN and Delver’s PW use, the deck has reasonable positioning. Both of those strategies using Veil and Decay continue to keep Counterbalance and Hymn hated out of the format to an acceptable degree.

    Not much room to work with, but I like dumping Mentor to the SB (since it’s a miserable topdeck against Oko ult) in exchange for Sevinne’s. Getting cantrip clause on easy E-Tutor targets (Shark’nado and Astrolabe) creates its own space with a pretty free cut to the 4th Standstill, as you can now effectively cycle E Tutor with purpose. Astrolabe noticeably decreases mulligans (Plains hands are more keepable) and does the whole build you own Gush with 3cmc Teferi. Shark’nado* enables openers of E Tutor on opponent EoT -> turn 2 Standstill with a deployable threat in hand (which happens to play around Wasteland and can block a Delver), and occasionally you get to hardcast it, thus creating what is effectively The Hive...with Sharks! So just more of that old school draw-go control feeling than Mentor ever had. The CJ maindeck and triple Blast effects from the board are there to hate out Oko as much as is possible. Here Active Volcano reminds us that Veil counter REB (so use the destroy mode) while also letting us dumpster Infernal Tutor and bounce Yorion’s enchanted Isands** (all this when it’s not saving Tundra from a Wasteland). There is also the upside of 3 differently named Blast effects playing around Surgical and saying “no” to Meddling Mage nonsense coming out of UWR Lurrus.

    I like that the SB was able to get back at least 1 copy of Blessed Alliance, but the rest of the slots are kinda hard to fiddle with as long as Oko remains legal. Too many artifact and manlands running around to pass up Powder Keg for EE. Most flexible spots are probably Surgical or Deafening Silence. In the maindeck, the only other idea we toyed around with was Field of Ruin since it’s mostly about killing Karakas, and it helps mana fixing (particularly red postboard). The one new effect to most seriously consider, despite the egregious cost, is Dismantling Wave vs Counterbalance nonsense. The counterpoint though would be that at such mana totals it should probably just be a 13/13 Emmy to combo with Karakas endlessly.

    *Shark’nado for x=0 kills Bridge from Below; don’t miss this line when it comes up.
    **remember that casting local enchantments like Abundant Growth requires targeting, which allows Active Volcano to deny the enchant itself as well as the draw trigger....as well as the later would-be Yorion flicker for draw trigger.

  15. #5395
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I have a feeling that landstill decks need to start playing lurrus immediately.

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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by thefreakaccident View Post
    I have a feeling that landstill decks need to start playing lurrus immediately.
    Giving up the PW made specifically for manland decks (3cmc Teferi) is highly dubious. The enchantment version of Thing in the Ice [Ominous Seas] is still Thing in the Ice at the end of the day (this is what is seeing play in these shells). Also just do a quick count of creatures in Standstill that cause opponents to discard removal spells so that Lurrus doesn’t immediately get tagged the moment he resolves. Next, count up the mana you need to play Lurrus and get value in this deck - that’s PW mana.

    If you want to cheese wins off Lurrus it’s easier to spam CB into any board state and ride its infinite value as it counters all the kill spells the opponent’s hand will be full of at that time.

  17. #5397
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Legacy_Council (Ark4n11) streamed UWr Standstill yesterday with @TheSemiotician and myself on the group call to a 4-1 finish.
    Played a modified list yesterday but tried to stay as close to the original as possible for testing purposes :-) https://deckbox.org/sets/2650979
    I wanted to test a better manabase that would allow Mystic Sanctuary instead of Noxious Revival (obvious synergy with Active Volcano :>) as well as add a Volcanic Island in order to get more virtual red than the current 6 sources. Sideboard-wise I added From the Ashes right before my event, but in retrospect it should have been this Ajani, not that it mattered anyway.

    I felt I needed a Pithing Needle at some point and Search for Azcanta felt very underwhelming even though I recognize its importance in the deck. But overall quite happy with the current 75. Some cards I'm considering for the sideboard:


    - Gideon of the Trials
    - Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    - Pithing Needle
    - Volcanic Island
    - Meddling Mage
    - Jace, Vryn's Prodigy


    I'm also willing to try green instead of red to play Oko myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by thefreakaccident View Post
    I have a feeling that landstill decks need to start playing lurrus immediately.
    I would tend to agree with Fox here. Mostly because having less creatures than the rest of the field blanks removal. Lurrus could be a sideboard card however, where your opponent might side out said removal, but even then it doesn't rebuy enough of the deck so Sevinne's is almost always better.
    Last edited by AngryBacon; 05-06-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  18. #5398
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    The thing about Noxious is that it re-ups 5cmc Teferi, and as a game goes long it turns into Vamp Tutor [effectively]. I would also rather start a game with 1x Fetch + Noxious than Fetch + Sanctuary. Noxious also has quite a bit of text vs aggressive combo, starting on turn 0. The Shark'nado also provides a pretty good cycling option for Noxious.

    The play patterns of Sanctuary and WW spells leads to poor decisions of passing the turn after finding Tundra too early, locking yourself [vs enemy Wasteland] into a multi-turn window of Daze being live. Sanctuary also incentivizes you to drop Vista, which would represent a highly noticeable loss of win %. If you're adding a land, it's probably Tarn x1 as 9th Fetch.

    Both Gideon and Elspeth fail the Flame-Tongue Kavu PW test (lose to Oko's 3/3s and also cost 1 more mana).

    Needle is one of those cards you have to name Oko with, no matter what the problem permanent is; this card would be narrow, coming in only against Grisel and specifically DnT's Vial. Not going to rely on Needle vs Merfolk, humans, and definitely not Goblins (most maindeck Shatter effects in legacy). The deck already has Wasteland and Karakas and Teferi (3cmc) and Plow/Terminus, so we don't really need more help vs Depths strategies. Remember that R/G lands was nice enough to begin abandoning Rish Port, and FoN exiles Loam so we don't need to worry about GQ lock (also they play Oko so that's the only card we could name).

    JVP would be misused, this card is for UB Reanimator and Dreadstill (decks with heavier mana denial that need the untap step). Also unlike Dreadstill, you can't EoT him with Scroll of Fate with Teferi locking opponent off the stack. Also UWstill has no way to use JVP as Ensnaring Bridge hate (face-down Dreadnought, [+1] down to 0/2, declare attack, flip, take 10 Bridge user). This is the level of utility you need to have to justify JVP in not-Reanimator.

    Meddling Mage is a creature, and doubles down on losing hard to Oko. What are you worried about naming/what matchups?

    Oko I've talked about in this thread somewhere, but the moment you run him you're on Astrolabe/Uro/Ice-Fang, so you've lost all your space to be Standstill, so you just play 4c Oko.

  19. #5399
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @Fox I agree with most points you've made except they're not as clear cut for me as they are for you (yet) so I'll just keep asking myself "Do I want this X to be Y?" whenever it comes up I think :-)
    Needle is what I first though of against Oko mainly (since there's already a copy of Enlightened Tutor), with additional uses in other matchups, sure it will get decayed, but that would be one decay off my Teferi or Back to Basics if I decided to bring it against a Yorion pile for instance. This is how I see my hate pieces anyway, just a sum of disruption that my opponent has to go through before dealing with the functioning of my strategy. Meddling Mage would name whatever it is that I lose to, increasing by one the amount of steps my opponent has to take before winning. I like him versus combo in general and am hesitating between him and Lavinia. If I committed a slot of my sideboard to Meddling Mage for Oko, I would then name Oko. The reasoning is the same for Zirda and Gyruda matchups.

    My point is that I like a diversified hate that doesn't all die to the same anti-hate my weak matchups would bring in.

    Noxious Revival can act as Time Walk sometimes too but that's rare enough that I didn't mention it, more often it's graveyard "hate" as you hinted :-) I think I disagree about Oko forcing more than just 4 Arcum's Astrolabe however, I'll try and browse the past discussion before I think again about it.

    Gideon is a target for Decay and this is what I dislike the most about it honestly, since you bring it for matchups where opponent will definitely side in Decays. Elspeth is a way to have a better edge against control matchups, haven't actually tested but that the reasoning behind it anyway.

    I'll keep testing a little more before I make more changes regardless. Though I think I'll keep the split between Ponder and Portent since I've lost a couple games not being able to draw my land drops with Portent.

  20. #5400
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Oh you meant that Gideon, I thought you mean Gideon of the 2/2s. 3cmc Gideon is anti-storm only, but they printed a card 3x less expensive and an E-Tutor target (Deafening Silence).

    On the Needle stuff, you need to be careful about going down a card to Needle Oko; you‘ve just given your opponent time to assemble 5 mana and cast a 4/5 that can draw them ~4x cards. Needle is one of those cards I wouldn‘t put in a SB without Karn in the main.

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