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Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #61
    Artist formerly known as Anti-American
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    I was testing a list that was a cross between the EPIC lists and the konsultant list. The reason why I mixed the two together was because they each had each other's strengths and weaknesses. The konsultant lists werent aggressive enough and the EPIC list has a terrible fallback when it loses a Monastery.

    The konsultant lists has DoJ, which proved very useful in the Dragon Stompy MU. Just fetching out a basic Plains and then cycling the DoJ is amazing. You can also slowly answer Dragon Stompy's threats using the singleton Plains.

    // Mana 25
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Nantuko Monastery
    4 Tundra
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Plains
    2 Island

    2 Eternal Dragon


    // Spells 36
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    3 Fact or Fiction (or 2 FoF to make 60 cards)
    3 Cunning Wish
    4 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Wrath of God
    2 Humility
    3 Engineered Explosives
    2 Decree of Justice


    // Sideboard 15
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Pulse of the Fields
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Ray of Revelation
    1 Return to Dust
    2 Krosan Grip
    3 Extirpate

    1 Decree of Justice
    4 Hydroblast
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  2. #62
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Why not 2x Jace in place of fact or fiction? He is awesome...

  3. #63
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    I was testing a list that was a cross between the EPIC lists and the konsultant list. The reason why I mixed the two together was because they each had each other's strengths and weaknesses. The konsultant lists werent aggressive enough and the EPIC list has a terrible fallback when it loses a Monastery.

    The konsultant lists has DoJ, which proved very useful in the Dragon Stompy MU. Just fetching out a basic Plains and then cycling the DoJ is amazing. You can also slowly answer Dragon Stompy's threats using the singleton Plains.

    // Mana 25
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Nantuko Monastery
    4 Tundra
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Plains
    2 Island

    2 Eternal Dragon


    // Spells 36
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    3 Fact or Fiction (or 2 FoF to make 60 cards)
    3 Cunning Wish
    4 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Wrath of God
    2 Humility
    3 Engineered Explosives
    2 Decree of Justice


    // Sideboard 15
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Pulse of the Fields
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Ray of Revelation
    1 Return to Dust
    2 Krosan Grip
    3 Extirpate

    1 Decree of Justice
    4 Hydroblast
    Since Der_imaginäre_Freund is busy with building bridges on some stupid browsergame, I think I#ll type my impression of the deck:

    I don't like it.

    The only reason to splash green should be Pernicious Deed. But Pernicious Deed is - against some matchups - terrible since they give the opponent 1 additional turn to beat you for infinite damage beforce you get your WoG-effect. And during that single turn, you open yourself up to several things like Needle or enchantmentremoval.

    Nantuko Monastery is a win-more card and dead in the earlygame since it can't be activated before you reach Threshold and does only produce colorless Mana.

    And the amount of Enchantment-removal in the sideboard is a littlebit overkill.

    You should also try Wheel of Sun and Moon as a sideboardcard since it fixes a lot of problems (actually Life from the Loam) and it's a nice addition against Ichorid (actually a Leyline for WW).

    Playing at least 1 Crucible also seems to be necessary to me since it rocks the mirrormatch.

    And therefor, I'd suggest you play Wastelands again. This should come close of what DERF has suggested to me after my suck-out at our local tourney (landed on 9th place instead of 3rd place, stupid me):

    // Lands
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    2 [ON] Polluted Delta
    3 [TE] Wasteland
    3 [B] Plains (1)
    4 [B] Tundra
    2 [B] Island (3)
    2 [B] Underground Sea
    1 [B] Scrubland
    4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)

    // Creatures
    1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

    // Spells
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [MM] Brainstorm
    4 [OD] Standstill
    3 [JU] Cunning Wish
    3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    3 [10E] Wrath of God
    2 [TE] Humility
    2 [SC] Decree of Justice
    1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
    4 [MM] Counterspell
    4 [B] Swords to Plowshares

    // Sideboard
    SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
    SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
    SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
    SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
    SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
    SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
    SB: 1 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 [SHA] Wheel of Sun and Moon

    But actually, Fact or Fiction is also not necessary, you already have enough ways to generate CA via EE, WoG, Decree and Standstill.
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  4. #64
    Artist formerly known as Anti-American
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Adan View Post
    I don't like it.
    Opinions are opinions. But if there's one thing we both agree on, it's that konsultant's list is amazing. I still dont agree with the cut of Fact or Fiction though.

    The only reason to splash green should be Pernicious Deed. But Pernicious Deed is - against some matchups - terrible since they give the opponent 1 additional turn to beat you for infinite damage beforce you get your WoG-effect. And during that single turn, you open yourself up to several things like Needle or enchantmentremoval.
    I'm glad we agree on Deed. I should have elaborated on my reasoning for not running Deed besides my low Black sources count. But yes, those are the reasons why I dropped Deed.

    Nantuko Monastery is a win-more card and dead in the earlygame since it can't be activated before you reach Threshold and does only produce colorless Mana.
    Why you run Fact or Fiction; it's for Monastery. Also, I wouldnt really claim that Nantuko Monastery is win-more. It's actually a win condition to end the game very quickly. I have kept tabs on scenarios where Monastery and DoJ would be helpful. Considering that I dont care much for Stronghold anymore because I have Humility, I have opt to run both win conditions. Monastery for midgame pressure and DoJ for an effective late game win condition as well as surprise blockers.

    Also, Aggression = Mistakes. Those mistakes could be a misplay or playing too-straightforward against you. The more pressure you apply, the more mistakes your opponent's make. This is why I love Monastery. If I dont have that much control of the game, I can still try and induce a mistake from my opponent so that I do win the game.

    You should also try Wheel of Sun and Moon as a sideboardcard since it fixes a lot of problems (actually Life from the Loam) and it's a nice addition against Ichorid (actually a Leyline for WW).
    I was thinking about that actually. Being able to deal with Ichorid is baller.

    Playing at least 1 Crucible also seems to be necessary to me since it rocks the mirrormatch.
    1-ofs in Landstill seem random to me. I'll try out the singleton CoW.

    And therefor, I'd suggest you play Wastelands again. This should come close of what DERF has suggested to me after my suck-out at our local tourney (landed on 9th place instead of 3rd place, stupid me):
    They do deal with random crap like Volrath's Stronghold. But I have Humility...

    But actually, Fact or Fiction is also not necessary, you already have enough ways to generate CA via EE, WoG, Decree and Standstill.
    Personally, I believe that Fact or Fiction is a must in a deck like Landstill. Standstill is at times, a very unreliable card, and like Blood Moon, you must play it during a neutral game game state.

    Also, I believe that this deck doesnt have enough draw. I hate not running Fact or Fiction because the deck has terrible topdecks, imo. The only way to prevent these bad topdecks is to run more draw. IMO, the more draw I have, the more options, freedom, and control I have during gameplay.

    I also dont side out Fact or Fiction. I always leave them in, even against combo. Fact or Fiction is just a good draw spell and allows me to enable Monastery. It also digs for all my needed tools to win the game as well as surviving the game.
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  5. #65
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    Konsultant's list is amazing.
    I actually don't know who first came up with the idea of Cunning Wish in Landstill, but konsultant and we Germans (Marius+me) were pretty close - irrelevant to the discussion though. It's also sad that konsultant doesn't work on Landstill any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    I wouldnt really claim that Nantuko Monastery is win-more. It's actually a win condition to end the game very quickly.
    Nantuko Monastery is just pretty mediocre in my opinion: it requires you to dilute your manabase by splashing yet another colour making you more vulnerable to Blood Moon/Back to Basics and by being just a colourless source, it is literally dead early (before you reach Threshold - this will be until quite late in the midgame if you don't play the also mediocre Fact or Fiction -- unlike Decree of Justice which can be a Fog + Cantrip early). It's also pretty mana-intensive as a wincon (3mana a turn aren't a small investment).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    Also, Aggression = Mistakes. Those mistakes could be a misplay or playing too-straightforward against you. The more pressure you apply, the more mistakes your opponent's make. This is why I love Monastery. If I dont have that much control of the game, I can still try and induce a mistake from my opponent so that I do win the game.
    Now this is where our play philosophies differ... I play this deck very conservatively and only swing with manlands when I'm in full control of the game - it's not worth loosing the land drop or the mana for control elements (Counterspell, Cunning Wish etc.) just to deal a pathetic 2 damage; also, against everything but combo, it doesn't really matter when you win. I'll just sit on my cards and wait for a Decree of Justice / Standstill and then proceed to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    I was thinking about that actually. Being able to deal with Ichorid is baller.
    Your Ichorid matchup isn't that bad already as postboard you have 3 Engineered Explosives, 3 Engineered Plague, 2 Humility, 4 Swords to Plowshares and 4 Meddling Mages to stall them - Wheel of Sun and Moon is rather for the Aggro Loam matchup because it stops all their threats (Countryside Crusher doesn't get counters any more) and their card advantage engine (Life from the Loam).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    1-ofs in Landstill seem random to me. I'll try out the singleton CoW.
    The 1off isn't that random - you have Cunning Wish for Enlightened Tutor to fetch it when you need it... in some matchups Crucible is essential, in most matchups it is quite good in the late mid- to early late-game (and later obviously) but it is pretty clunky and worse than a basic land in the early game (having to tap out and needing a fetchland to assure land drops)... one as a Tutor target/late game draw is therefore the best number up to now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    They do deal with random crap like Volrath's Stronghold. But I have Humility...
    This statement is true, but flawed: if you have Humility, you just win against anything that is not combo - so I'd rather have things that help against otherwise problematic cards when I don't have Humility. Also, the singleton Wasteland (and the Tolaria West to get it out) is pretty good in the mirror and allows the Crucible+Wasteland lock as well as some nasty moves with Extirpate (especially good against NQG).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    Personally, I believe that Fact or Fiction is a must in a deck like Landstill. Standstill is at times, a very unreliable card, and like Blood Moon, you must play it during a neutral game game state.
    Also, I believe that this deck doesnt have enough draw. I hate not running Fact or Fiction because the deck has terrible topdecks, imo. The only way to prevent these bad topdecks is to run more draw. IMO, the more draw I have, the more options, freedom, and control I have during gameplay.
    I don't really like Fact or Fiction in Landstill as it is pretty clunky / mana-intensive and will only create a hard +1 CA most of the time (your opponent will normally split the good cards for the current situation on the 2card pile).
    Also, I've never really felt the need for more draw: you have as much 'draw' as the non-Cunning Wish lists... you just replaced Fact or Fiction with Cunning Wish which creates virtual Card Advantage by getting you just what you need which is as good or better than 'hard' Card Advantage most of the time.
    As a last reason, I wouldn't know what to cut from my current list to include any: 25 lands are essential in my opinion as you basically win whenever you get your manabase right and if you hit your first 4+ land drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adan View Post
    Sideboard incl. Wheel of Sun and Moon
    I wouldn't cut down on the Meddling Mages as they are your most versatile sideboard card - to include Wheel of Sun and Moon, I'd rather cut the Slaughter Pact, an Engineered Plague and an Extirpate (maybe not) from the 'standard' sideboard. I don't know if 2 Wheels won't suffice though because you still have Enlightened Tutor to complement the numbers.
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  6. #66
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Der_imaginäre_Freund View Post
    I actually don't know who first came up with the idea of Cunning Wish in Landstill, but konsultant and we Germans (Marius+me) were pretty close - irrelevant to the discussion though. It's also sad that konsultant doesn't work on Landstill any more.
    Yeah... that sucks... he's probably the pioneer of the modern builds of Cunning-Landstill.


    Nantuko Monastery is just pretty mediocre in my opinion: it requires you to dilute your manabase by splashing yet another colour making you more vulnerable to Blood Moon/Back to Basics and by being just a colourless source, it is literally dead early (before you reach Threshold - this will be until quite late in the midgame if you don't play the also mediocre Fact or Fiction -- unlike Decree of Justice which can be a Fog + Cantrip early). It's also pretty mana-intensive as a wincon (3mana a turn aren't a small investment).
    I'd take Fact or Fiction before Monastery any day. Fact or Fiction just does more draws cards for me. I can use those cards I draw to leverage myself into a dominant position. Monastery just forces position if it can go the distance.

    Now this is where our play philosophies differ... I play this deck very conservatively and only swing with manlands when I'm in full control of the game - it's not worth loosing the land drop or the mana for control elements (Counterspell, Cunning Wish etc.) just to deal a pathetic 2 damage; also, against everything but combo, it doesn't really matter when you win. I'll just sit on my cards and wait for a Decree of Justice / Standstill and then proceed to win.
    I am known for playing decks aggressively. Like control, which I am very known to play aggressively. Even in the UW Landstill era, I was known for fast-playing that deck (go auto-pilot decks!) because it goes to time if I sit there trying to make a decision with a deck that was pretty easy to use.


    Your Ichorid matchup isn't that bad already as postboard you have 3 Engineered Explosives, 3 Engineered Plague, 2 Humility, 4 Swords to Plowshares and 4 Meddling Mages to stall them - Wheel of Sun and Moon is rather for the Aggro Loam matchup because it stops all their threats (Countryside Crusher doesn't get counters any more) and their card advantage engine (Life from the Loam).
    I suppose this makes sense.
    The 1off isn't that random - you have Cunning Wish for Enlightened Tutor to fetch it when you need it... in some matchups Crucible is essential, in most matchups it is quite good in the late mid- to early late-game (and later obviously) but it is pretty clunky and worse than a basic land in the early game (having to tap out and needing a fetchland to assure land drops)... one as a Tutor target/late game draw is therefore the best number up to now.
    That's kinda clever. I have always been a fan of playing Mystical Tutor to go fetch a Swords or WoG or even a Decree.

    This statement is true, but flawed: if you have Humility, you just win against anything that is not combo - so I'd rather have things that help against otherwise problematic cards when I don't have Humility. Also, the singleton Wasteland (and the Tolaria West to get it out) is pretty good in the mirror and allows the Crucible+Wasteland lock as well as some nasty moves with Extirpate (especially good against NQG).
    Tolaria West... thats kinda cool. I think even fetching an EE is kinda awesome as well.

    Humility is an amazing card. It's like, a bomb, but in Landstill. I usually think of them as Standstills 5-6.



    I don't really like Fact or Fiction in Landstill as it is pretty clunky / mana-intensive and will only create a hard +1 CA most of the time (your opponent will normally split the good cards for the current situation on the 2card pile).
    So that 2-card pile has quality in it. And is Standstill anymore different? You draw 1-2 useful cards off it and the 3rd is a Land.

    Also, I've never really felt the need for more draw: you have as much 'draw' as the non-Cunning Wish lists... you just replaced Fact or Fiction with Cunning Wish which creates virtual Card Advantage by getting you just what you need which is as good or better than 'hard' Card Advantage most of the time.
    Yes, but Extirpates arent hot all the time. Besides, I can at least chain draw spells if I have FoF. Chaining draw is amazing because it's how you beat the crap out of decks like Tog.

    As a last reason, I wouldn't know what to cut from my current list to include any: 25 lands are essential in my opinion as you basically win whenever you get your manabase right and if you hit your first 4+ land drops.
    But the original lists run 23-24. You only need 25-26 sources. 27 is stretching it a little. Besides, with all that land, you could, ya know, play FoFs.

    I wouldn't cut down on the Meddling Mages as they are your most versatile sideboard card - to include Wheel of Sun and Moon, I'd rather cut the Slaughter Pact, an Engineered Plague and an Extirpate (maybe not) from the 'standard' sideboard. I don't know if 2 Wheels won't suffice though because you still have Enlightened Tutor to complement the numbers.
    Personally, I dont even think you need to run Plague. Extirpate is all you need to beat Goblins. Even against Ichorid, I would much rather have 4 Extirpates.
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  7. #67
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    This is all damn silly talk that I would ever stop working on Landstill!!!
    I had merely taken a brake to try and see the format from an aggro control perspective and figure out how to solve some of the problems I have been having. I had come up with the idea of running Cunning Wish independently but that is not to say that my German counterparts did not come up with it first. I do claim to be the first [to the absolute best of my knowledge] to run Return to Dust or use the Wish's in conjunction with Pacts.

    I believe I have found the answer to the Landstill problem: Runed Halo. This card is fucking amazing. It stops Belcher, Tendrils, Tarmogoyf, Price of Progress, Cabal Therapy, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Piledriver, Sutured Ghoul, Nantuko Monastary, Vexing Shusher can suck ass it still won't get Tendrils through Halo, Random shit people shouldn't be playing and damn near any other problem for that damn small cost of 2 mana. This thing is Ivory Mask but better and for half the mana.

    This card is Meddling Mage the way mage was intended to be. Now obviously there is the whole Krosan Grip thing, but the fact of the matter is that I want my opponents to have to board into enchanment removal. That's card slots taken away from other things. Not to mention if you pair Halo with Humility whitch card are they going to grip off? Whitchever one they leave can easily cost them the game. I have been working on various lists with this card since I read it on the spoiler and I don't have a tournament proven list yet.... but I will be playing my new list at an upcoming major event. I will post a tournament report afterwords with the list I have used.

    As much as I absolutly love the power of Cunning Wish, I regrettably think that they are to slow at the moment. The card shine's the best in the control mirror whitch I atleast have not played in a good six months. I give this advice: try to stick with Blue/White and consider using Halo paired with Humility. The extra number of Enchantments is hard for most any deck out there to get rid off and they are usefull in damn near every match. I'm toying between main decking the Halo's or boarding into them. They sit in the SB at the moment. Against creature decks without any huge bombs I am considering a strategy of boarding down to just 4 Counterspells and boarding in the 4 Halo's paired with the Landstill draw engine and all of the removal packed into Blue/White builds. I have to admit so far the deck has done ridiculously good in testing. The deck needs to be fast in it's disruption, versitile in it's disruption and have a huge power level to it's cards. Runed Halo does all of that and make's playing Standstill easy again. I have toyed with the Plainswalker's and Tolaria West and all the other Techy stuff that's out there but the fact of the matter is this: it's all either too slow or not powerfull enough in the late game to take advantage of your larger mana resources.

    @Marius: if you want a copy of exactly what I am working on at the moment PM me, it's still in the developmental stage's and I wouldn't mind a second set of skilled eyes for some final tweaking.

    @Wizards of the Coast: When the hell are you going to print the White Enchantment regrow land?

    Edit: After going back to read the entire thread I saw previous mention of Runed Halo, why not more focus on this card?
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  8. #68
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by konsultant View Post
    I believe I have found the answer to the Landstill problem: Runed Halo. This card is fucking amazing. It stops Belcher, Tendrils, Tarmogoyf, Price of Progress, Cabal Therapy, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Piledriver, Sutured Ghoul, Nantuko Monastary, Vexing Shusher can suck ass it still won't get Tendrils through Halo, Random shit people shouldn't be playing and damn near any other problem for that damn small cost of 2 mana.
    Finally. I'm not the only one who sees it, then. For a while there, I thought I might've been wrong, if I was the only one who liked it. I must say, though, that Halo seems like an eminently maindeck sort of card, because its very strength is its flexibility. It's not great against control (removal generally isn't), but pretty good against mostly everything else.

    Another card I've been looking at on and off recently is Ancestral Vision. I haven't done any testing on it so this may be a silly idea, but with good enough early defenses against both aggro and combo (and Halo helps with both), might it be worth giving a shot?
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  9. #69
    Artist formerly known as Anti-American
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Personally, I think this deck needs more fetchlands and another Basic Island. Blood Moon is a really stupid card and that we need more ways to find Basic Islands. Eternal Dragons are amazing too; they find Basic Plains.

    We dont really need the random Tropical Island and the Savannah anymore. We should replace them with 2 Deltas or something.
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  10. #70
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    We dont really need the random Tropical Island and the Savannah anymore.
    Yea, no kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ch@os View Post
    WTF? A 4th Color? In UWb Cunning Landstill is no 4th color needed, the manabase will become really shitty and there is no need for some red or green SB Spells. Theres no problem you cannot handle with 3 colors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_imaginäre_Freund View Post
    Now, I don't think that any splash colour for only Cunning Wish targets is needed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Adan View Post
    Cunning Landstill is already good enough with 3 colors.
    Quote Originally Posted by from Cairo View Post
    Lands 25
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Tundra
    4 Mishra's Factory
    3 Island
    3 Plains
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Wasteland
    1 Academy Ruins
    I've since replaced the 2nd Wasteland with a single Tolaria West. And have had very few issues running against Bloodmoon effects.
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  11. #71
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by from Cairo View Post
    I've since replaced the 2nd Wasteland with a single Tolaria West. And have had very few issues running against Bloodmoon effects.
    I'd also replace one Island with a singleton Scrubland to be able to fetch a black source via Eternal Dragon.

    This is my current manabase:

    // Lands (25)
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    2 Island
    3 Plains
    1 Tolaria West
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Wasteland
    1 Academy Ruins

    1 Eternal Dragon

    I'm currently thinking of cutting a dual (either a Tundra or a U-Sea) for another basic Island.
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  12. #72
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    For what it's worth I'm still running the same mana base with the Tropical Island and the Savannah and I'm not having Bloodmoon issues. It also give's you the threat of cards you may not even be playing. For instance if they see green Mana it's normally a safe assumption that you are running Krosan Grip whether you are or not doesn't really matter if they have to play like you are. This obviously isn't as effective for local events where people may know your entire list but for large events it can be an easy advantage you can give yourself. I also am not happy only being able to get Explosive's up to 3 counter's, in my experience I have gone up to four on a number of occasions. You would be surprises just how many time's my Tropical Island gets wasted instead of my Tundra because they think they are color screwing me. I'd also like to add that I play against Bloodmoon just about every week.

    I'm still trying to get the final tweaks in regarding Runed Halo, it has the potential to be a MD card and I'm usually happy to draw it but I haven't had enough time to get the extensive testing in that I want before making the switch into the MD.
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  13. #73

    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    How looks your list with Jace in it? I find him amazing. But i don´t know what to cut for him.

    EDIT: Against which deck do you board MMs? and What do you board against Mirror?

  14. #74
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Der_imaginäre_Freund View Post
    I'm currently thinking of cutting a dual (either a Tundra or a U-Sea) for another basic Island.

    // Lands (25)
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    2 Island
    3 Plains
    1 Tolaria West
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Wasteland
    1 Academy Ruins

    1 Eternal Dragon
    I could definitely see the logic in dropping the U-Sea for Basic Island. Preboard they function very similar in the sense that if you're only using it for Blue spells, and having the Basic can be much better. In cases where you need Black for either a Wished Extirpate or an EE@3 you have 6 Fetches and a Dragon to pull up a Black source, not to mention the biggest EE@3 targets turn all your nonbasics into a 3rd color anyway.

    I'm going to try it out anyway, 3 Island, 3 Plains, 4 Tundra, 1 Underground, 1 Scrub, 6 Fetches, 4 Factory, 3 Tolaria/Waste/Ruins
    TPDMC

  15. #75
    It´s just more individual party in your head.
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    Re: [DtB] UW(x) Landstill

    I run that manabase and it works perfect. I always beat DS.

  16. #76
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    I just recently got first at my local tournament, there were like 20 people there... I played against goyf sligh (moat + pulse both games) 2-0, WR control (some scrub with LD effects.deck) 2-0, UW fish (main deck needle & mage) 1-1-1, Uwg fish w/ goyf 2-0, paired against my teammate finals split into me with first and him with second... there was no T8 face off.

    I was in shock the game I lost against the fish deck, game two he got needle on explosives and on factory, then forced down 3!!! mages (through an early vial) on wrath, humility, and swords... I lost with a hand of notsogood goodies.

    I beat him badly game one however, and was in a winning position to win G3, but time was called, so who knows.


    I am considering moat for a particular metagame, would this be a bad decision?

  17. #77
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by thefreakaccident View Post
    I am considering moat for a particular metagame, would this be a bad decision?
    No, since it's better against Ichorid for example. It might also help against some Zoo Aggro variants where Humility is slightly weaker (I got annihilated by Giant Growth, followed by double Berserk once...).

    But generally, Humility is better since it has got way more synergies with the deck.

    If you play Moat, Decree of Justice becomes worse, so you might substitute them with something else like a 2nd Dragon or Hoofprints...
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  18. #78
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Adan View Post
    If you play Moat, Decree of Justice becomes worse, so you might substitute them with something else like a 2nd Dragon or Hoofprints...
    So you hardcast DoJ for Angel tokens.
    ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.


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  19. #79
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Most of the time wouldn't Moat beat Humility??

    How many decks pack around 6+ flying critters that you can't handle with WoG, Explosives and StP?

    You can still get your ass kicked by a mob of 1/1 vanillas..

    I'm not convinced at all about which card is the better. But for me it looks like Moat finishes alot more game 1's. And isn't that what Landstill aims to do?

    I'm a fan of E. Tutor (yes it's card-disadvantage..). I my eyes it serves as cheaper tutor than Wish. Plus it finds Moat/Humility which ends alot of games. Or so I heard..
    EDIT: E. Tutor EOT for turn 2 Standstill is pretty hot in my eyes.. No?

    I'm working on a list running 3 E. Tutor and Countertop main. I mostly face alot of control and aggro-control, some aggro and the occasional combo.

    Running E. Tutor could open up for some pretty sweet SB options. Allready mentioned are Wheel of Sun and Moon and Runed Halo. Both could be 1-ofs in the board, waiting to serve as tutor-targets game 2+.
    Also I'm wondering whether or not Oblivion Ring should be a 1-of in the board. Though 1 for 1 usually isn't hot in control..

    Anybody got some experience with E. Tutor and Countertop main? (I realize that Countertop is around 5-6 slots MD which might be cranky.. But I still think E. Tutor is worth it even without the counter-engine..)
    MEMENTO MORI!

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  20. #80

    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Actually back in the day when I worked heavily on UW landstill I would run exalted angel, and eternal dragon with moat. Which was perfect for the meta when goblins were running around excessively. Nowadays I still think moat should be considered in the modern environment especially in landstill. Definitely moat gives you more avenues to play standstill under pressure.

    In fact, moat can be quite effective with runed halo. I have been trying moat with runed halo and it's been working wonders against threshold. Shutdown all of their ground creatures with moat and then naming either mystic enforcer or fledgling dragon with runed halo.

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