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Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #1881
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    @Konsultant: Congrats on the finish.
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  2. #1882
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Congratz from me as well, but I can not understand how you can actually beat Loam or Tempo decks with your lists. But I think I just have to accept the fact that Geoff wins no matter how clunky his list is.

  3. #1883

    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    @Konsultant
    Congratulations on your successful piloting.

    But I'm with NQN here. How did you get so far with a deck that, quite frankly, looks rather slow on paper? 3 Fact or Fiction and 2 Nevinyrral's Disk do not inspire confidence in aggro matchups and with only sorcery-speed Vindicate and 4 rather slow mass removal artifacts, how did you stop a deck like Countertop (assuming you had a plan for if you do indeed meet this deck)?

  4. #1884
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Nice finish! Just out of curiosity, did you have any troubles running FOW and only 17 blue spells? The count seems a little light. And what were your thoughts on running 0 spell snare? They seem like the sort of thing that would have helped against merfolk. One more: 3 decree and 2 els? How'd that heavy finisher base work for you?
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  5. #1885
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Is that list 61 cards, Geoff? How were the Disks? I have a list in my "test this" pile that uses them but it's quite different (more like Jaime Cano's/Pablo David Diaz Diaz's four color build.

    What matches do you bring in the Orim's Chants? (besides combo, obviously)
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  6. #1886
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    To sum up, konsultant, could you please make a little report and spare with the people of landstill thread some of your choices which, with all the respect we owe to you, seem quite odd if not illogical?

    BTW, congrats!
    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986
    Sorry for the confusion, and there is always the strong possibility of me being wrong in alot of cases. I am not always right; just most of the time. :)
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  7. #1887
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    I went to the same tournament as konsultant and played the most god awful list ever. I might as well gone there with no side board because my side board didn't matter. Anyone I gave my list too needs to just throw it into the trash bin and start completely over.

    Roud 1: Nightmare 2-0 4c Thresh
    Round 2: Ichorid 0-2
    Round 3: RB Demigod 0-2 Both games he ripped a demigod when I was 8 and him at 3 in the first and 1 in the second with lethal next turn.
    Round 4: UB ANT 1-2
    Round 5: Opponent didn't show up Free Win 2-0
    Round 6: Opponent didn't show up Free Win 2-0
    Round 7: Enchatress 2-1 I punted the shit out of game 1.
    Round 8: Drop being in 53 place with way too many 15 pointers to make top 25.
    Co-Founder of Team Awesome - I heard Randy Buehler say a while back that good players give themselves the most number of turns to find the answer.
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  8. #1888
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by rsaunder View Post
    what were your thoughts on running 0 spell snare?
    Quote Originally Posted by konsultant View Post
    SB
    3x Spellsnare
    I beleive that right there should sum up alot of the questions posed to me about the speed of the deck.

    While I am happily a founding member of team left field I assure everyone that none of my choices are random, even the last minute Lilliana over the Crucible that had been in that slot was well thought out. I marked it as random simply because I hadn't tested it but I have played Lilliana numerous times in legacy.

    Unlike my usual builds this build does rely on side boarding in most match up's to get the winning percentage's as high as I like them yet I won nearly every round 2-0. It is far from clunky it just requires knowing the correct side board strategy for every match up. With incorrect boarding this build will land you squarly in the losers bracket.

    Yes it is 61 cards, Tolaria west is the 61rst card, sometimes it is great and sometimes it gets transmuted like a fetch land. For those adamant about playing 60 cards cut it.

    Chant is soley for Storm combo and Cascade combo.

    Despite my only losses being to Merfolk I have tested extensively against it and just ran into my bad luck for the day against a tough match up. In the swiss I was on the play and opened a one lander and threw it back and got another one lander, lost without ever making my second land drop. Blew him out game 2 with Plague and lost a tight game 3. In top 4 game one I was once again on the play and had to mull a one lander and kept a decent but not spectacular 6. He had a solid hand and beat me with a turn one vial and turn 2 standstill. Game 2 I played STP turn one, Plague turn 3, Humility turn 4, Disk turn 5 and died turn 6. He had nothing left in hand but had everything he needed at the right time, I don't think it mattered what I had he was winning that game and they have the potential to do that whitch makes them a difficult match up. Currently I am working on some alternative strategies to make it a better match but i'm not certain it is worth it. I still beat merfolk in top 8 2-0 being on the play game one and mulling to 5.
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  9. #1889
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Many people are questioning why you're running 3 DoJs and 3 FoFs in the maindeck, as many still consider those cards to be "clunky." What are your thoughts on DoJs and FoFs?

    Edit. You also seem to be running 2 Elspeths in the maindeck. What are your opinions on Elspeth now?
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  10. #1890
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Citrus-God View Post
    Many people are questioning why you're running 3 DoJs and 3 FoFs in the maindeck, as many still consider those cards to be "clunky." What are your thoughts on DoJs and FoFs?

    Edit. You also seem to be running 2 Elspeths in the maindeck. What are your opinions on Elspeth now?
    I don't consider either to be clunky actually. This is landstill it is a late game deck. Don't be swayed by the cute little tempo thresh lists, whitch this list beats the piss out of by the way, the deck needs a late game. FoF pitch's to force early and DOJ cycle's into another card turn 3. I can't stress enough how important side boarding is with this build. I've been building this deck for months testing against all of tier one and tier two decks. Merfolk is annoying, Ichorid is winnable but not what you want to see. The remainder of legacy should be a win without bad luck and without making play mistakes. I can't adequetly explain my years of playing Landstill into a small post. That is the list I played, those were my results. I stand behind the list in the current meta. Humility may be changed or may stay but other than that the list is solid. If the concensus is the build is clunky everyone is entitled to thier opinions, play your own builds. I am not here trying to sell my list. It is easier for me if nobody plays the list than I don't have to face opponents I have never met before that have been testing against my list, whitch happens to me all to frequently.

    Answer to Edit: Elspeth is the same as it was before, worse than Decree but a good card for Landstill. It pairs good with both Disk and Humility.
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  11. #1891
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Very good konsultant!

    I also was considering using the Disk as well but part of me feels it may be too slow, thoughts?

  12. #1892
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Played the following list in 28people tourney, finished with top2 split:

    // Lands
    4 [R] Tundra
    4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
    3 [ALA] Island (1)
    2 [RAV] Plains (4)
    4 [ON] Flooded Strand
    2 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [U] Underground Sea
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    1 [R] Scrubland
    1 [MM] Dust Bowl

    // Creatures & Walkers
    1 [SC] Eternal Dragon
    1 [LRW] Jace Beleren
    2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant

    // Spells
    4 [MM] Brainstorm
    3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
    4 [OD] Standstill
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    3 [TE] Counterspell
    4 [R] Swordss to Plowshares
    2 [TE] Humility
    4 [DIS] Spell Snare
    2 [CFX] Path to Exile
    1 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
    1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

    Round1 - White Weenie. I recover after Cataclysm and proceed to win through Jace. We didn't even start the second game
    Round 2 - Faerie Stompy. In first game he loses gas quickly, and scoops after Humility + Elspeth. In the second, we both mull to 5, he gets mana flooded, I'm a bit color screwed, but I get my lands first, and Humility + Elspeth once again seal the deal.
    Round 3 - 4c Counter-top. Long first game where I scoop after getting my EDragon STPed and CB/TOP locked.
    He gets CB/TOP in the second game two, but as he's on 3 lands, 2 of which are duals, I just Dust Bowl them and beat with 2 factories. Didn't start third.
    Round 4 - Team America. No aggressive start from TA, and after a long game I just beat with Elspeth with Humility on board.
    In the second game my opponent extirpates FoW, STP and is able to get some beats through. Then he PerDeeds my Humility and is able to swing with Tombstalker for the win. Once again, didn't start the third.
    Round 5 - RGBSA. He leads with thoughtseize and goes for turn2 Survival, to which I respond with Standstill, he drops a Goyf, I get Academy Ruins and Explosives off it, and then just go recursive, drop Humility and ride with Elspeth 4tw.
    In the second game he's mana screwed, so I just destroy his both duals with Dust Bowl, Disenchant Vial and he scoops it up.
    Top8 - BR Aggro. Two long games where he didn't gave up after Humility and I just couldn't get Elspeth for a while.
    Top4 - Progenitus Survival. Game 1 he scoops after I drop Elspeth with Humility, in the second, I just went off with Explosives recursion, many counters and Elspeth.
    Top2 - ID.

    This was the first time I've played 2color (really, I didn't side a single black card this day), and sometimes it was tough without source of mass removal. I might add 1-2 Wrath of God, and I'm considering Disk (don't like it though) or The Abyss. 1 Decree might also be good, since oftentimes I wished it was there.

  13. #1893
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    I'm re-considering enlightened tutor a lot in these days... it just not saves your life when you want it, if it happens in early it fetches some removals, while if it happens in late we might be already in control by that time (and you wnat it when you wnat it, not before or after, so it is a better target for cwish than a maindecable card, with all the synergies I admit and defend with cards like jace and top). The question that it gives sense to the singleton crucible, I'm starting to see that it's not a strong objection. Crucible is good by its own, just a copy is fine if you don't screw, and with the deck manipulation/draw engine provided by top/jace/bstorm/sstill ever a singleton copy makes the difference. It seems in your list is pretty subpowered, just beacase you have already solid removal (EE's), solid draws (sstill, maybe not top), solid board control (2 humility) to tutor for. Maybe it's better to add a second top to manage better you deck manipulation, and leave a copy of etutor in the sb, or just add a disk (you know, I'm fond of it, and has great synergy with elspeth) to streghten your board control (and have a way out of pithing needle on EE, which block all of you mass removal since you don't have wrath; also, i'd play -1 path +1 wrath, how do you feel without a second mass removal option?). What are your feelings about it?
    EDIT: sorry, next time I'll read the report from the end to the beginning! ^^
    For reference, here's what I'm playing atm. Need some work though.

    //Lands: 23
    3 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    3 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Academy Ruins
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Dust Bowl
    3 Island
    3 Plains
    1 Swamp

    //Walkers: 4
    2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    2 Jace Beleren

    //Permission: 10
    4 Force of Will
    4 Spell Snare
    2 Counterspell

    //Removal: 11
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Vindicate
    3 Engineered Explosives
    1 Nevinyrral's Disk
    1 Wrath of God

    //Draw: 9 (+ jace)
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Standstill

    //Stuff:
    1 Humility
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Decree of Justice

    Sideboard: (under construction)
    3 Meddling Mage
    3 Extirpate
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Circle of Protection: Red
    1 Ajani Goldmane
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    3 Engineered Plague

    Maybe a scheme like this is more suited with the secondo tutor MD, which I left out for the reasons above. Needs really some work, especially the 3rd plague may be a moat/2nd humility/2nd relic, dunno.
    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986
    Sorry for the confusion, and there is always the strong possibility of me being wrong in alot of cases. I am not always right; just most of the time. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by rockout
    Oh my god get to the point. Both of you.

  14. #1894
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    I don't like a second top. I generally don't consider it that good. If it's there okay, if it isn't -whatever, this decks plays fine without it. I just don't like getting it in multiples, especially if it gets stuck. What I'm aiming for is to never have the deadweight cards in the early game. In a fast creature environment you just can't afford it.
    True so, Crucible wasn't much of a use, although it was handy in two games I've played. I don't like for the very same reason I don't like the second top: oftentimes its a dead weight if you draw it.
    Enlightened tutor on other hand isn't. Early game it can fetch Explosives or Standstill, later - Humility (or second Humility, if they Grip the first), or that Crucible if necessary. Or even Top (been there, done that), if you are low on cards and need some good topdecks. I don't like disk, because it kills your own Humility and overly is very slow. I'd rather play The Abyss there. Also would like to get a Fact or 2 in there, but it seems there're not enough slots in the deck :)

  15. #1895
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    I agree with all you're saying, except against the 2nd top (I played 3, lowered the count for the blue cards, but I'll keep playing 3 if I had the room). That said, having 3 EE's and many spot removals, the fact disk costs 4 is more an assurance than a weight (evades counterbalance, is nuts against enchantress -if they don't find the oring-, etc etc), plus it's unaffected by stifle, plus it's indestructible with elspeth ultimate (happen very often, for me at least in 40% of the games). It's true that it breaks all of your stuff like humility (which for instance, you have a 2nd copy), but it's true the same that he works the same role as humility (a 4cc board keeper). in fact you do not have to rip it if you don't need it, you can just sit behind disk preventing the opponent to not play or to play much carefully, not overextend, while elspeth tokens chumblock and pumps her and the few threats can be handled by spot removals. When elspeth goes up to 8/9, you have an indestructible reset tool on the table. You don't need to play it when you have humility, like you don't have to play humility if disk is active on the table (it's not rare the case i cast humility to take a fow or a grip in stead of disk): you just don't need to because they work the same role, keeping the table and slowering your opponent. The difference is that, when indestrubtible, creatures under humility can still attack, disk is automatically gg agains every aggro non-packing burn spells. However, if you're under humility and decide to break disk before elspeth ultimate, it may mean that you'd have lost without such desperate move, and so welcome disk that saves our lives at the mere cost of the copy ofan enchantment which you possess maindeck in 2 copies! I suggest to give him a chance, at least ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986
    Sorry for the confusion, and there is always the strong possibility of me being wrong in alot of cases. I am not always right; just most of the time. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by rockout
    Oh my god get to the point. Both of you.

  16. #1896
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Weird enough, I've never thought about Disk/Elspeth Ultimate interaction. In fact I have never used the ultimate, it seemed so pointless. Most of the time though, If you get into Elspeth ultimate range, chances you've dealt at least 12-16 damage with it, which is probably a win already.

    Anyway, I like the idea! By the way, what do you think of The Abyss?

  17. #1897
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    I tend to play elspeth very slowly, just to pull out tokens to chumpblock...i'm really afraid of the possibile 8 swords to plowshares hanging around in legacy, and landstill is a deck that punishes every single error or overextension, so I play carefully in defense even when the board is clear, so reaching the ultimate is not so strange for my playstyle. The ultimate is also good against all those decks like black based (if you survive long enough and stop their vindicate on her, and avoid wastes and sinkholes, and stp on mishra and...well, you get the picture...) and obviously against aggroloam, making crucible almost a way to recover the lands you put in graveyard. But from now on, your lands cannot be wasted, your creatures cannot be affected by devastating dreams, and so on... Also, making soldier tokens indestructible is like building a titanium wall off little 1/1 creatures, and seeing your frustrating oppo trying to pass through and indestructible little soldier with it's enormous non tramplig creature (from tarmo to coatl, to anything that responds to such description) is quite interesting. Also, the effects last till the end of game and applies to everything that comes into play from the resolution of the ultimate till the end of the game so...well...having non-grippable humilities is not so bad I think... No, to sum up the ultimate is not just pointless...
    @the abyss: i admit i haven't test it. My thought are mixed. What are the main faults of humility? Doesn't destroy creature (so not removal nor elspeth nor mishra = still gg for the opponent); doesn't block attacks (same picture). I think that all those desideres are satisfied by a triplet of cards: moat, humility, disk. Every one of them is a 4cc bomb. If I were you, and if I had room, I'd go for a composite solution of these 3: with ichorid i'd rathere have moat than humility, with black based i'd rather have humility, against merfolks, moat buys a lot more of time than humility, agaist gobbos, both would work if we save a stp for the eventual tinkerer just to save crucible and/or disk. The abyss does what humility does not: destroys a creature every turn. This can be a double-edged weapon in my opinion: the player who is forced to play with less creatures is also forced to overextend. The question is: without any sort of mass removal besides EE, and no way to sweep an eventual pithing needle on your lonely mass removal, can you stand to an overextension? On the paper, the abyss seems a great card. But on the play, looking your list, I'd rather have disk and/or moat in that room.
    Quote Originally Posted by mossivo1986
    Sorry for the confusion, and there is always the strong possibility of me being wrong in alot of cases. I am not always right; just most of the time. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by rockout
    Oh my god get to the point. Both of you.

  18. #1898
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    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    What matchups is Liliana good in?
    She seems solid against ANT/TES, racking up CA while your opponent tries to find an answer to MMage/other hate but apart from that I'm in the dark.
    Hello friend.

  19. #1899

    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Making control discard a card every turn seems pretty good.

  20. #1900

    Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Ectoplasm View Post
    What matchups is Liliana good in?
    She seems solid against ANT/TES, racking up CA while your opponent tries to find an answer to MMage/other hate but apart from that I'm in the dark.
    If you can manage to land it against ANT/TES, then you should have already win no ?

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