[Deck] UBGx Landstill

[kiblast]

Hey! I played UBG(w) control today @local tournament today.
4 Rounds, I go 3w-0l-1id and I lose in top4 to Sneaky Show.

I was playing this list:

Creature [3]
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instant [19]
3 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
1 Cryptic Command
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Repeal
1 Dismember
Sorcery [7]
2 Life from the Loam
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Innocent Blood
Enchantment [3]
3 Pernicious Deed
Planeswalker [5]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Land [23]
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Bayou

SB!

3 Extirpate
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Nature's Claim
1 Clique
1 Force
1 Spell Pierce
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Engineered Plague
1 Flusterstorm


Which is Marc Tobiasch list with few minor tweaks (-1 Pierce +1 Snare, -1 Disfigure + 1 Dismember, -1 Disrupt +1 Innocent Blood). The changes were made to have a better matchup against aggro and tribal stuff. SB is strongly meta oriented.

R1 2-1 vs Affinity. G1 he rapes me with his superfast race and turn 3 Shrapnel Blast ftw. G2 G3 I stabilize at very low life total both games (like 1 or 2 life ) and then I pop the Deeds.

R2 2-0 vs Monoblack Aggro ( lots of discard, but also Bob, Nighthawk, Gatekeeper and Obliterator). I control both games through counters ( Snare was insane in this mu, countering Bob and Tourach) and Liliana. I win both games racing him with Snapcasters and flying 1/1's.

R3 2-0 vs Burn. I see my only Pierce md in the opening hand g1, I counter some stuff, I chumpblock a bit, liliana does her job. G2 I bring more counters and I win both games on the back of hordes of flying spirits.

R4 ID vs Nic Fit.

Top4 Sneak n Show. I lose 0-2 due to
a) Deck set against aggro.
b) g1 She has turn 2 Snt, I force, she forces, Griselbrand, gg. G2 I misplayed (maybe) : I was expecting turn 3 SnT, and had 2 options: cast Clique after draw step or leave my mana open for Counterspell. Since I had 3 lands I was fearing Daze, and I decided to stay mana open. Guess what, she had the Misdirection for my Counterspell but no Daze/Force for my Clique. Well at least she was nice and cute and all while annihilating me ( obviously the Brainstorm I casted in my 4th turn mainphase didn't show any Innocent blood).

I end up winning a foil dci Clique for my efforts.

Since I'll have another tournament Thursday night, I think I will remove the Dismember from the md and add a Smother instead. Maybe I'll add a Negate/ Pierc instead of the third E plague from the sb as well.


--------

Instead of writing a new post, I'll edit this one. Yesterday night 17 people show up at our local tournament. I end up splitting the finals.

I play this list:

Creature [3]
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instant [18]
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Smother
Sorcery [7]
1 Life from the Loam
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Innocent Blood
Enchantment [3]
3 Pernicious Deed
Planeswalker [6]
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Land [23]
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Bayou

SB!

4 Extirpate
2 Nature's Claim
2 Clique
2 Spell Pierce
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Engineered Plague

R1: Burn 0-2 Lose
R2: Bye
R3: Combo Elves 2-1 win
R4: Sneak and Show 2-1 win
R5: Combo Elves 2-1 win
Top 4: Aluren 2-0 win
Finals Split vs Sneak and Show.

I end up winning 3 Flooded Strands for my efforts.

So the deck proven to be strong against combo and aggro decks in these 2 tournaments (during the 1st one I played mostly vs aggro decks, during the 2nd basically only vs combo). Packing enough Pierces - I played 4 in total between md and sb- and SnT is not a problem anymore, aggro ( Combo Elf can transform in one of the fastest aggro in the meta, dealing 20+ dmg by turn 4) is easily shut down if you menage to see enough spot removals to survive the early game so you can pop deed.
I'm happy with this configuration, both sb and md.

[Nastaboi]

Went 5-1 in a 44-player tournament with this:

4 delta
1 tarn
1 strand
1 rainforest
1 verdant catacombs
3 ug sea
2 tropical
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 waste
4 factory

4 Brainstorm
4 fow
2 Counterspell
2 snare
2 pierce
2 snapcaster

4 Standstill
4 deed
4 Innocent Blood
2 Ghastly Demise

3 jace
2 lily
1 loam

Side:
3 clique
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 inquisition
1 seize
2 Flusterstorm
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 sower
1 pulse
1 Damnation

The field was not the most competitive, lost against Esper Stoneblade and won Sneak and Show and four worse decks. MD was good, Flusterstorms and Sower in SB not. I'd play more discard and blasts instead, or something against Dredge if you expect it.

Just posting to tell that the deck is still alive, altough UWb with Terminus could be better version nowadays.

[Chikenbok]

I know this is the wrong thread but since the BUG control thread is deaded I'll post in here.

I've been trying 2 standstill in my BUG list, almost identical to yours but I run MD discard via IoK and Thoughtseize and standstill always feels, well... Kind of underwhelming right now, especially with the format speeding up in terms of pure aggro, albeit, you do have 4 deeds to support a zerg rush.

So my question is, did standstill really 'get there' in games or were there times where you'd prefer it was something else.

Also, I've loved having Flusterstorm in my board - sower got cut a while ago but flusterstorm has been amazing to me.

[Nastaboi]

Standstill was great. I sided it out in some matches, but never wished it to be something else. It is great against non-vial creature decks, as you can still play it if they have only one drop in play and stabilize with Factories if they decide not to break it immediately. And its four or none type of card, you really have to play four to get one reliably on turn two.

[Viridia]

I've played BUG Landstill for a few months last year, but everytime managed to go 0-3 or 0-4 drop (4 or 5 tournaments).
After that i sortof gave up for abit, but the deck is just too much fun not to play, so i'm thinking of picking it up again for this weekends tournament.

Now i was wondering if a more creaturebased approach might work better? With mainboard Cliques, Snapcasters and Baleful Strix.
Something like this:'

Mainboard (60)

23 Lands
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Nephalia Drownyard
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

10 Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique


24 Other spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Go for the Throat
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Smother
2 Spell Pierce
4 Standstill

3 Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (15)

2 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
1 Worm Harvest
1 Liliana of the Veil

Unfortunately i won't have time to test it enough to be sure, so this weeks theorycrafting will have to do.

[Viridia]

A friend of mine and myself played our new incarnation of the Ubg Landstill lists to double top 8 and myself going top 4 i a 40man tournament yesterday.

Our lists:

Land (24)
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Flooded Strand
2x Island
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Nephalia Drownyard
4x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Swamp
3x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea

Sorcery (3)
3x Innocent Blood

Instant (14)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
1x Darkblast
4x Force of Will
1x Noxious Revival
2x Spell Pierce

Creature (8)
4x Baleful Strix
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique

Enchantment (8)
4x Pernicious Deed
4x Standstill

Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor


Sideboard (15)
1x Life from the Loam
3x Thoughtseize
2x Flusterstorm
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Krosan Grip

Went 4-1-1 to the Top 8 with these matches:

UW Control with Snapcaster, Clique, Squadron Hawks and Jitte's , grind out both games with Strixes and Deeds 2-0 (1-0)

Deathguy Ale (B/W Stoneblade) I grind out both games with Standstills and Deeds 2-0 (2-0)

Sneak&Show Win game 1 on chaining Standstills and Counters, Lose Game 2&3 to Sneak Attack :( 1-2 (2-1)

Show Omniscience Win game 1 on well timed counters and Standstills, Lose game 2 when i kept Island, Brainstorm, FoW, FoW, Counterspell, Krosan Grip, Krosan Grip, my brainstorm finds FoW, Flusterstorm and Standstill but i never get a 2nd land Game 3 i win on chaining Standstills with counter backup 2-1 (3-1)

UW Stoneblade with Entreats and Terminus I again grind out games with Standstills, Strixes and well-timed Pernicious Deeds, Game 2 he Brainstorms turn 2 without dropping a land, i Spell Pierce he passes, Brainstorms turn 3 i Counterspell he passes and doesn't find a land untill 2 turns later, when he was too far behind. 2-0 (4-1)

Merfolk ID into top 8

Top 8:

Merfolk Game 1 i get Islandwalked to death by turn 4 or 5, Game 2 I controlled the board long enough to get out Deeds and he scooped when i resolved a Jace, Game 3 he has to Mulligan to 5 which contains Mutavault, Vial, Vial, random, random and i Maelstrom Pulse the 2 Vials on turn 3 with FoW backup. 2-1 (5-1-1)

RUG Tempo, Game 1 he has triple Stifle and triple Wasteland, by turn 6 i played 6 lands and have 0 in play and die without having played a single spell, Game 2 he has double Stifle and double Wasteland + Life from the Loam and has a 3rd Stifle for my fetch when i try to get green sources for my own Loam 0-2 (5-2-1)

Overall we were both really happy with the list, and we just need to make a few minor adjustments to make the RUG matchup more doable.

[Chimera87]

And the report from the other Top-8-er :)

Monday, the 13th of August, my team mate and friend Michel Theissen sends out a new Deedstill list to our Team Forum for everyone's judgement (the list was also posted on The Source for advice). The new idea: Baleful Strix in our existing Deedstill list that runs Factories and Drownyards and no Wastelands. I look at the list whilst at work and almost immediately go to eBay and order 4 Strixes to have them in time for the next tournament, Saturday (yesterday) the 18th. I fiddle around with the list and later that week during our weekly Team meeting, we combine the lists and decide to run it in the next tournament. We both have lots of experience with Deedstill, so no testing shouldn't be too much of a problem. On Friday we decide on the sideboard (at 11PM).

Saturday the 18th: Rotterdam, tournament at Magic United. 40 people show up. Here's the small report:

Match 1: Steven with UWb Stoneblade with Geists
Game 1: I keep a rather greedy 7 with 4 lands and 3 spells. Two turns later my 2 good spells were Thoughtseize'd by Steven, but he did not put down any real clock. I stabilize later on by using Strixes and Snapcasters together with the one-off Clique and Factories to keep his team at bay (consisting of Snapcaster + Geist) and go on the beat-down. After a long grind, I manage to beat him. 20 minutes left on the clock.
Game 2: He starts off quite nicely and at some point has a Snapcaster and Jitte in play. He attacks and connects: two counters (uh-oh). On my turn, I cast Deed with 2 mana open... it resolves. He attacks me and asks for blocks. I can't block: so no blocks. He then says "damage?". Sure... next he tries to pump the Snapcaster with Jitte counters... ehm how about no? Rest of the turn (after that mess-up) he doesn't play anything and passes. I decide to blow up Deed and he gains 8 from the Jitte counters. By that time there are like 10 minutes left on the clock and I already see that there's no way of winning for him. I drop some beaters in the coming turns and also a Jace to keep him off any threats. When time is called he claims he can still win, but everybody else convinces him it's impossible with an active jace. He scoops it up.
1-0-0.

Match 2: Sebastiaan with BG Pox
Game 1: He gets two Bloodghasts going, which are extremely annoying for my deck to deal with, but I manage to grind him out with Factories after he tripple Sinkholes my sea, trop and factory. He never gets enough lands to really get going. He scoops it up when I land a Jace and tick up the counters.
Game 2: He has some early beat down and discard, but I have more counters then he can deal with and Factories to keep his team of my back. He can't get more than four lands because I keep countering his Life from the Loam while Jace +2'ing him.
2-0-0.

Match 3: Vincent with Omniscience
Game 1: I have the counters I need and the clock I need. He starts off with an early SnT, which I Pierce. Even if it had resolved and he had gotten Omniscience, I would've dropped a Standstill of the SnT to at least stand a chance. However, it didn't resolve. At one point I beat him down to 8 from 16 with Factory + Snapcaster + Clique + Strix. He has one turn to find something while I have FoW backup. He doesn't find it.
Game 2: This basically comes down to him not finding a SnT all game, even after tripple Brainstorm. I think he found an option in the last turn he had before lethal when he went: Brainstorm, I Pierce, he dazes by bouncing his Volcanic Island (his lands were: Volc, City and Petal). I pay and Brainstorm is countered. He then goes: drop Volcanic, sac petal for white. I intervene with: Your City is gone... he agrees and scoops. I assume he wanted to drop his Academy Rector that had in his hand the entire game. I still had FoW, though, so it didn't matter.
3-0-0.

Match 4: Stef with Sneak and Tell
Game 1: I lose to Sneak Attack
Game 2: I win after tripple Thoughtseize and he doens't find another way to win.
Game 3: He has the stone-cold nuts. He's on the play: turn 1, volcanic island. Turn 2, Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Sneak Attack -> I Spell Pierce (found it off the top), he Misdirects (pitching I believe Ponder)... resolves. He has two cards left... My second turn comes and I don't have an answer (I have Krosan Grip, but that's a turn too late). His turn: Griselbrand, draw 7, Emrakul. Game. If he hadn't been on the play or hadn't had the Petal, I would've beaten him easily. Oh well.
3-1-0.

Match 5: Joran with ANT/TES
Game 1: He goes off through my counter-suite.
Game 2: My disruption stops him from doing anything and Clique + Factory + Strix gets there in time.
Game 3: I keep a hand with: Brainstorm, Counterspell, Flusterstorm + 4 lands. I realize now that this may have been too greedy, but it seemed fine at the time. He goes turn 2 Burning Wish for Duress. I have drawn land turn 1. End-of-turn I Brainstorm to keep Counterspell up, since he found Duress (that can only take one counter, keeping both up is required). Brainstorm finds: land, land, baleful strix. Darnit! His turn 3: Duress, taking Flusterstorm, Duress, taking Counterspell... Leaving me with lands and Strix... He goes off with triple Lion's Eye Diamond, Cabal Ritual and Infernal Tutor. Yeah, can't beat hands like that if my Brainstorm doesn't find me answers. Oh well.
3-2-0.

I strongly believed my chances for Top 8 were gone, but decide to go for it and play the last round as well. I meet up with my opponent, Jerko, and we have a little chat. I was 9th place in the standings, he (apparently) 10th, so my chances are best if I go 2-0 to get into Top 8 based on resistance. My opponent scoops and in return I decide to split the price with him.
We have a little test-run and I find out quickly that he's playing BUG Tempo, which I would've beaten probably.
4-2-0.

I end up making it 8th place and entering Top 8. My team-mate Michel Theissen makes it in at 4-1-1!

Quarter Finals: Remko with Canadian Threshold.
Game 1: He has to mulligan and I keep a hand with Island+Swamp+Stuff. He can't keep a creature on the board long enough and scoops it up when I land a Jace.
Game 2: He has a hand with loads of mana denial and I cannot find my Life from the Loam. Around turn 6 he finds his Loam and starts Loaming two wastelands... yeah that I cannot beat.
Game 3: He (so he says) kept a hand with double Wasteland, stifle and Loam. I never get anything going, even with the Loam I find. It doesn't work if you find 4 of the colorless lands in stead of Tropicals (to loam once more). His Nimble Mongoose beats me down after several turns. This really wasn't a game. Oh well.
4-3-0.

Viewing back I can say that the Threshold matchup can use a little improvement, perhaps by adding another Loam to the board and Extractions instead of Leylines (that's a big debate within our team right now). The deck was awesome for an untested list and taking two top 8 spots is just awesome. The tournament was held in a store without air conditioning during 35+C weather, so that was a little rough. However, that did not ruin our spirit and we had a good time!

[theBloody]

Can you guys explain me why you run Nephalia Drownyard? Thanks in advance.

[Chimera87]

Drownyard fixes the matchups where Standstills are awesome, but the Fatories don't work. We notices a while back in testing that Factories really often get killed by the mainboard removal, i.e. Swords to Plowshares being the worst offender. Wasteland in this deck is never really used to lock out the opponent, unless you hit your one-off (or two-off) Loam (now in the board).
Drownyard can win against other control decks that drop for example Ensnaring Bridge or Moat. It's also an amazing answer to the new MiracleTop lists as it's very difficult to Miracle an Entreat when there's a drownyard on the other side. There's also the splashdamage it provides against Personal Tutor in Omniscience. I've even managed to mill Maverick and UG Infect out when there was no way for my Factories to beat him down.

Yes, it's very slow but the role it fills is better than Wasteland in the deck. It provides a very nice angle of attack.

[kiblast]

So today I played this list in a 34 players 6 rounds tournament.


Land
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Island
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
3x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea
3x Wasteland

Sorcery
4x Innocent Blood
1x Life from the Loam

Instant
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
3x Spell Snare
2x Spell Pierce

Creature
2x Snapcaster Mage

Enchantment
4x Pernicious Deed
4x Standstill

Planeswalker
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Liliana of the Veil


Sideboard (15)
1x Duress
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Extirpate
1x Tormod's Crypt
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Nature's Claim
1x Krosan Grip
2x Engineered Plague
1x Engineered Eplosives


I go 4-1-1 in swiss

R1: Tempo Thresh (the true list, with Stifle and Fire Ice, not the crappy list lots of players prefer now) 2-1
R2: Zoo RWG 2-1
R3: Nic Fit RGB 0-1 (difficult matchup, becomes rather unplayable post side)
R4: MUD Aggro 2-0 (Is that even a real deck?)
R5: UW Merfolk 2-0
R6: ID vs ???

Top8:
Quarters: Tempo Thresh (player from round1) 2-0
Semi: RB Goblins 0-2

Overall the deck felt really good, and with one more E-Plague in sb Goblins becomes more doable. I might want to add it as Goblins seem to be a choice again.

[Chikenbok]

Been going back and forth between BUG control and BUGstill but, for reference, here's the *still* list I've been playing with:



1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland

3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Innocent Blood
2 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce

3 Pernicious Deed
4 Standstill

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil

//Board
1 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Nature's Claim
1 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
2 Engineered Plague

[Terminus]

I've been looking for a deck to play, and I thought I would try out some kind of BUG control variant. Scrolling through here, I see that most players are still on the standstill plan. I can't understand playing it, but having never experienced the card outside of merfolk, I may just not know enough about playing landstill. Here are my problems with the card:

1. 8 colorless land in a 3 color deck? In a format where everyone and their mother is running 4 wastelands?
2. The card is disgustingly bad against tempo thresh. The only good i can see it doing is on the play, turn 2, if it resolves, AND they didn't go turn 1 delver.
3. Merfolk is seeing a rise in play, and goblins is already a poor matchup for a deck like this, without running cards like standstill.
4. Tapping out during your opponent's turn 2 (on the play) or turn 3 (on the draw) is never strong when the two most crucial turns of the format are 2 and 3. For example, a show/tell player will gladly drop his combo on turn 3 after you tap out, even through a standstill, since drawing three cards is less relevant when FOW is your only answer. Another example is a thresh player dazing your standstill, then utilizing your wasted turn to set up a protected threat, in the form of a flipped delver/thresh goose backed by countermagic.

I would much rather play a safer manabase, with 4 basics, and no more than 5 colorless sources. Given this, is ancestral vision a reasonable card to play? I know people's obvious issues with it (namely, the fact that it doesn't do anything for four turns), but it does have some upside:

1. Tapping out turn one is far safer than turn 2, and it gives us something to do that doesn't open us up to daze (mostly relevant in the thresh matchup, but some other decks play it as well, like merfolk). I'd much rather go turn 1 suspend and turn 2 innocent blood than turn 1 blood turn 2 standstill against thresh.

2. The format is actually fairly slow at this moment. What is maverick going to do in the first 4 turns that you both care about and can't answer? (Admittedly, standstill is amazing in this matchup, but vision would be great as well). Similarly, thresh can actually be a very slow deck - mongoose takes a few turns to set up, as does goyf. Turn 1 delver is the scariest opening, but can be answered by all of our removal. (Ghastly demise won't kill mongoose and often won't goyf, and a turn three deed needs mana to pop a goyf or goose). The card is worst in combo matchups, but combo makes up a small percentage of the format right now, and, in the worst of cases, the card still pitches to force.

Theorycrafting aside, I really want to try this deck out, so I'll be toying around with it later this week, with vision and without.

[TakeYourTime]

1. 8 colorless land in a 3 color deck? In a format where everyone and their mother is running 4 wastelands?

Yes, it can be rough sometimes. I agree with you in playing more basics and less colorless sources. Depending on the situation, you can play around wasteland by not fetching until you need to. I also play with life from the loam and/or crucible of worlds in the deck.

2. The card is disgustingly bad against tempo thresh. The only good i can see it doing is on the play, turn 2, if it resolves, AND they didn't go turn 1 delver.
3. Merfolk is seeing a rise in play, and goblins is already a poor matchup for a deck like this, without running cards like standstill.

Against aggressive decks you don't drop standstill until you have established board control. The standstill lets you recover card advantage after dealing with their board. Most aggro decks cannot recover card advantage and rely heavily on early turn plays.

4. Tapping out during your opponent's turn 2 (on the play) or turn 3 (on the draw) is never strong when the two most crucial turns of the format are 2 and 3. For example, a show/tell player will gladly drop his combo on turn 3 after you tap out, even through a standstill, since drawing three cards is less relevant when FOW is your only answer. Another example is a thresh player dazing your standstill, then utilizing your wasted turn to set up a protected threat, in the form of a flipped delver/thresh goose backed by countermagic.

Agreed. Simple solution is don't tap out; play standstill later when you can keep mana open.

I would much rather play a safer manabase, with 4 basics, and no more than 5 colorless sources. Given this, is ancestral vision a reasonable card to play? I know people's obvious issues with it (namely, the fact that it doesn't do anything for four turns), but it does have some upside:

2. Tapping out turn one is far safer than turn 2, and it gives us something to do that doesn't open us up to daze (mostly relevant in the thresh matchup, but some other decks play it as well, like merfolk). I'd much rather go turn 1 suspend and turn 2 innocent blood than turn 1 blood turn 2 standstill against thresh.

Yes, I like 3-4 basics.

I tried ancestral vision before. It's a fantastic turn one play, but the problem is that it's only good on the early turns. Late game it gives your opponent four turns to prep for the spell to go off.

I went up against an opponent at star city that played ancestral vision. I was using standstill. What happened was:
-his ancestral vision was at 1 counter
-my turn, I drop a standstill
-pass turn, he casts ancestral vision, I draw three cards off of standstill, his ancestral vision was countered




Overall I highly recommend standstills in the deck if you're going the pure control route. It might take you quite a few test games to pilot properly, but the deck is very fun.

[kiblast]

Ok, after some testing and tournaments in which I played decently, I have some questions regarding the Standstill version ( I can't help it I just love Standstill so much).

- I'm pretty much convinced that if you want to play Standstill, you really need to commit yourself to play full control. And you can't play less than 4 Stanstills. This mainly translates in overloading the deck with spot removals, since playing discard is useless, your opponent will just play another threat invalidating your Standstill; and a decent number of mass removals.

Given the amount of Mongoose in this meta, I'm playing the following:

4 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood
1 Ghastly Demise or Dismember

2 Liliana of the Veil

I guess this is enough to handle most aggro decks in the format. I also play 2 Snapcaster Mage.

The cc1 removals work as Standstill enablers in the early stage of the game. Later, you just recycle them from the grave through Snapcaster after turn 4-5.

Counter suite:

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell

After going back and forth with Spell Snare in the maindeck, I decided it's not worth it to run because basically anything you want to hit with Snare dies to your spot removals and if it doesn't die to removal then it goes under Spell Pierce , moreover, the deck has a poor to even matchup against Show and Tell variants and playing counters that basically don't help you at all versus the combo deck of choice is stupid. Spell Snare is golden in aggro-control metagames, but for decks that can't afford to play our removal suite (such UW variants).

Utilities, card drawing, Brainstorm:

1 Life from the Loam
4 Brianstorm
0-2 Sensei's Divining Top

Where the first is basically a corner stone of this archetype ( you'll always find between 1-2 copies in the 99% of the builds) and serves well in every single stage of the game, building up your manabase, recurring manlands, recurring Wasteland.
Tops are giving me headaches. I know they are amazing and they help you setting Standstills and they filter your draws giving you what you need, most importantly lands vs Tempo Thresh... but are they really worth it considering you almost always need every single mana you have? I'm going to try them in a tournament soon.

Regarding the sb:

Vendilion Clique is amazing, but if I play discard in sb against combo and control ( I play 3 Duress ) isn't just plain better to run Tombstalker ? with the added bonus of being sideable vs Tempo as well.
Also, right now I'll stick Engineered Plague in my sb. Any of you guys has gone back to it? It seems the only way for this deck to finally stop tribal.

Manlands and Wasteland:

2-4 Mishra's Factory
2-4 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit

I found myself switching to 4 Wastelands if I was expecting lots of Grove of the Burnwillows. Punishing Fire basically rapes this deck I think you need to answer it as fast as possible. In all other cases, Wasteland is playable as a 2-3 of giving more space to manlands. Tar Pit is amazing.

I guess this is all right now, please share your thoughts.

[door]

I'm playing this deck for about 2 years and I decided to abandon standstills long ago. In the format with delvers, thalias and once again merfolks the card is a dead card too often. Also according to my experience this deck doesn't need discard and creatures in the md, unless you want to play Team America.
My last list:

Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Force Of Will
2 Spell Snare
4 Counterspell
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
3 Innocent Blood
1 The Abyss
1 Liliana Of The Veil
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Life From The Loam
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Temporal Mastery
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Darkblast
1 Personal Tutor

Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard
2 Perish
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Counterbalance
2 Spell Pierce
1 Massacre
3 Extirpate
1 Raven's Crime
1 Engineered Plague

I still play spell snare, because against creature decks you need Pernicious Deed hit the table and open your mana as soon as possible. That's why it's better to counter Thalia and Qasali than dealing with them. Also stoneforge mystic needs to be countered, because bw sword is a pain in your ass. Burning wish, phyrexian revoker, tarmogoyf, hymn to tourach, price of progress, dark confidant, 2cc merfolks: these cards are still played in format, so spell snare always finds it target.

I find my removal package to be enough for all kinds of creature decks in game 1. If you are sceptical about the Abyss, than turn it into second Liliana. I play it because it can be put from Show and Tell and I hate drawing multiple Lilianas.

Temporal Mastery serves several purposes here. Partly it replaces standstills, but the most powerfull effect is putting Deed/Jace earlier and untap. Use a plainswalker one more time or an extra attack with factories before opponent can recover. I was surprised in my testing how many wins I got with TM against maverick, and was never dissapointed with it in tournaments.

Personal tutor respectively can find TM when you need it, but also removal, loam and crime postboard. It is especially good with STP, since you can get the tuttored card the same turn.

Counterbalance in sb is a must have, because it's very difficult to win against storm combo and burn/ur-delver otherwise. Also it helps very much against Lands and Reanimator.

Overall this deck is very strong against any UW decks, Maverick and tribal decks. The rug match up is tough and depends on the rug player's hand. It's very difficult to fight stifle-wasteland-daze-delver. But once you kill his delver and have 3+ lands, it's almost impossible to lose.

Also this list can't win against dredge. It needs a minimum of 4 leylines (better supported by surgicals) to be able to do smth. I just havn't seen dredge for a while.

[kiblast]

Thank you for the feedback. While I do understand and partially agree on your reasons, I'm not entirely sold on Spell Snare.I used to play with CB in the board but now I don't see enugh ANT or UR Burn to justify it. Thank you for the feedback and the list you proposed, seems interesting, I'll give it a spin on MWS.

I noticed you don't run Snapcaster Mage. Have you ever tried it? I think that Brainstorm is good enough to justify playing him at least as Bs #5-6.

[door]

I noticed you don't run Snapcaster Mage. Have you ever tried it? I think that Brainstorm is good enough to justify playing him at least as Bs #5-6.

I tested this list with and without snapcaster. The results as well as my feelings were better when there were no snaps.
Also I can say, that this deck doesn't really need it. Additional removal is just better than snap. Also there are 2 dredge cards, which help you filtering topdecks. Flashbacking counterspells is not always possible, cause you need 3 blue mana. Moreover, snap is useless if your opponent plays ooze. And as a creature, snap is not worth a cent in this deck.

[CookedChestnuts]

How has Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman been for everyone? My current list is this:

3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Counterspell
1 Darkblast
3 Spell Snare
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse

3 Standstill
2 Pernicious Deed

4 Jace the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil

1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Wasteland

[Viridia]

I wouldn't play Deathrite Shaman in Landstill, you really need your Deeds to go off on turn 4 usually, which means you get maximum 2-3 activations out of your Deathrites, plus the fact that everyones creature removal is suddenly relevant.

Chimera and i both piloted the same 75 yesterday in a relatively small tournament (25-30 people orso) going 2-0-2 and 2-1-1 before getting matched up against eachother in our win and in rounds >.>
We decided Chimera got to play the Top 8, so i scooped for him, but it was really a toss-up :)

Our lists:

Maindeck: 60

Creatures: 8

4 Baleful Strix
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique

Instants: 15

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce

Enchantments: 8

4 Standstill
4 Pernicious Deed

Planeswalkers: 4

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil

Land: 25

4 Mishra's Factory
4 Underground Sea
4 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Creeping Tar Pit

Sideboard: 15

4 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
1 Perish
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Life from the Loam
1 Krosan Grip


Our matchups: Elf Combo (2-0) Jund (0-2) Dredge (1-1-1) Sneak&Show (2-1) and Aluren (1-1-1) Sneak&Show (2-0) TES (2-1) Jund (1-1-1) before going 1-2 vs Sneak&Show in the T8.

We're quite happy about the list, with everyone running Abrupt Decays (even Aluren, TES and Elves) our deck just doesn't really care, because everything does its relevant thing as soon as it hits play. Jund turned out to be more annoying than we thought, so we're probably adding in another Perish orso to not lose against Bloodbraid Elf into Goyf/Shaman right after a Deed.

[CookedChestnuts]

I might try the white version for Lingering Souls. I don't want to put $60 down on Baleful Strixes. I'm sure they're amazing and what the deck wants, but finding them and/or buying them isn't appealing to me.