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Thread: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

  1. #1921
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom4ik View Post
    I have been wondering. If BugStill is running loam it might be worth it to play a few moxes. Access to 2 mana turn 1 on the play so that you can drop standstill would be a really powerful opening. It also lets you play decay/CS on turn 1. I know they are bad top decks but the deck plays BS and Jace plus usually some amount of snaps and maybe even Lily to help find outlets for late drawn moxen.
    You really can't play Deed if you play moxen, and Deed is one of the main draws to the deck.

    I also tested Tasigur a while ago and found it lacking. Other delve creatures are just better, and Tarmogoyf is better than them. If I were to play one delve spell, it would be Murderous Cut.

  2. #1922
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    So I played last night. went 2-2

    2-0 Lands (guy is really new to the deck and made some questionable plays that I capitalized on, tombstalker is a house, 4 turn clock)

    2-1 Infect (this seems like a really good much up for us)

    1-2 Rug Delver (G2/G3 I didn't draw more than 3 lands and that wont win you the game. G1 I drew plenty and it was GREAT!)

    0-2 Grixis Delver (G1 he has drs into yp and 3 bolts backed up by 2 dazes and 2 forces. G2 he has t3 gurmag and that card isn't easy to beat, had fow for lily)

    Standstill seemed awkward all night and I am back to the drawing board with BUG control. Deed was amazing and so was Tombstalker.
    I don't think delver is as bad a matchup as it went but its definitely a hole in the armor.
    I made some meta changes in the sb bc it was only 10 people and I saw all the decks

    2 strix
    2 surgical
    2 nihil sb
    2 duress
    1 golgari charm
    1 wasteland (4th)
    1 v clique
    2 disfigure
    1 s library
    1 I cant remember

    Not sure where to go from here, likely BUG Vet control or something. Haven't decided whether to play goyfs or deeds next.
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  3. #1923
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Nastaboi View Post
    You really can't play Deed if you play moxen, and Deed is one of the main draws to the deck.

    I also tested Tasigur a while ago and found it lacking. Other delve creatures are just better, and Tarmogoyf is better than them. If I were to play one delve spell, it would be Murderous Cut.
    The reason I mentioned moxen was because I do not believe that any deck outside of veteran explorer decks really need deed. This deck doesnt have mana accel and is already weak to fast decks. I dont think looking at dropping deed for other answers is entirely unreasonable but then again I am not sure that standstill is still a draw engine to use for control decks. so take my suggestion for what thats worth.

  4. #1924
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom4ik View Post
    The reason I mentioned moxen was because I do not believe that any deck outside of veteran explorer decks really need deed. This deck doesnt have mana accel and is already weak to fast decks. I dont think looking at dropping deed for other answers is entirely unreasonable but then again I am not sure that standstill is still a draw engine to use for control decks. so take my suggestion for what thats worth.
    YOUR BACK! I need guidance on BUG control stuff, im at an impasse.
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  5. #1925
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    How did you lose to Delver? Sub optimal plays, bad draws? I'd tune the list and get in some reps.

    Also, what replaces Deed. I can't think of anything. You can diversify your sweepers but I think 1-2 is correct. Other options: Toxic Deluge (life costs...), Golgari Charm, Engineered Explosives. What else?

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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    How did you lose to Delver? Sub optimal plays, bad draws? I'd tune the list and get in some reps.
    Obviously I am awful, but seriously, seemed like sub-optimal draws on my part as well as some loose decisions. I will revisit my list and go from there.

    Most updated bugstill list would be amazeballs.
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  7. #1927
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    How did you lose to Delver?
    Multiple wastelands, one or two well-timed counters. No deck has a great matchup against Delver decks as they can always get you like that. Our current removal suite isn't well equipped to deal with Angler. Right now we have Jace bounce, Lily edict and bigger Tarmogoyf from SB, and sacrifice effects are quite unreliable against Grixis Delver. Murderous Cut and Dismember is what I'd play if I didn't want to lose to Angler no more.

    Though we seem to be well equipped against Infect, don't get too comfortable. It's a scary deck and can win from out of nowhere, and we can't really use Standstill.

  8. #1928
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Exactly, bad draws and suboptimal plays. I've made my share of rather humiliating misplays.

  9. #1929
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    I have done some testing and tried some ideas. I tried Snare but it felt not quite powerful enough. As with Ponders I don't have to play them just to boost my blue card count, I decided to leave them for now. Then I thought about MD Hymn to Tourach to get even more card advantage. It's likely as good or even better than Thoughtseize against critical mass combo decks like ANT/Infect/Elves/Burn though obviously worse against Reanimator. More difficult to cast with colored mana is a thing and curve considerations might suggest running Seize, but I feel Seize isn't where I like to be right now. Might still play a couple on side.

    Loam has felt quite underwhelming against Delver as when they cut your mana with Wastelands and you are forced to spend whole turn Loaming back some lands, you are often too far behind in tempo to recover even if you had all the answers in hand. An extra land in SB could be better in the match up, and having a forest along with a swamp does give additional insurance against Blood Moon. Where Loam shines is when you want to be actively Wastelanding and/or they attack your mana but their clock is slower: Infect, DNT, Lands, 4c Loam, Shardless.

    Speaking of Lands, do you think I could get away with just one Surgical now that I have two Invasive Surgeries in side? I'd also like to have a couple of Diabolic Edicts against Marit Lage, but they are worse than other alternatives in most matchups where you want to bring in extra removal.

    Oh, removal. Decays and Deeds are given and I like some Disfigure main for curve reasons, and it's the best card against Delver. But then. One Murderous Cut is likely great. Edict as I mentioned is ok against Eldrazi and works against Lands/Reanimator/Sneak, but is inferior to other options in traditional creature matchups. Dismember is worse than other spot removal, I'd rather have more Decays or Disfigures. I tried Strix but it felt worse than traditional removal. Golgari Charm is very very good in certain match ups (Elves, Infect, DNT) but worthless elsewhere except killing enchantments against SNT decks. Night of Soul's Betrayal straight out wins same matchups - if you ever get to the point of resolving it. Toxic Deluge and 4th Deed are a bit worse than Charm in those matchups but more useful in general.

    The list ATM:

    8 fetch
    6 dual
    1 swamp
    2 factory
    2 tar pit
    3 waste

    4 shaman
    4 bs
    4 ponder
    2 disfigure

    4 standstill
    3 hymn
    3 decay

    3 lily
    3 deed
    1 clique

    3 jace
    4 force

    SB:
    4 goyf
    1 clique
    2 Invasive Surgery
    2 seize
    1 surgical
    1 loam/forest
    4 removal

    All input welcome!

  10. #1930
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Played in GPT to get some testing. Lost to BUG Delver and tentacle monsters, won against Miracles, TES and Necrotic Ooze combo. Played this list to test some cards:

    4 delta
    4 catacombs
    3 sea
    2 trop
    1 bayou
    1 swamp
    2 factory
    2 tar pit
    3 waste

    4 shaman
    4 bs
    4 ponder
    2 disfigure

    4 standstill
    2 hymn
    1 Baleful Stix
    3 decay

    3 lily
    2 deed
    1 Toxic Deluge

    1 clique

    3 jace
    4 force

    SB:
    4 goyf
    1 clique
    2 Invasive Surgery
    1 surgical
    1 loam
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Murderous Cut
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Null Rod
    1 seize


    I liked the list for most part. Mana base is as good as you can make it without cutting more spells for lands. Loam will start on SB. I liked Deed/Deluge split and will go with it. Playing less Deeds makes permanent-based SB cards better, and I like both Rod and Needle (Cage not so much). Strix slot in main is open, I could play 3rd Hymn as the card was good, but might play one Snare instead for curve and mana reasons. I think you need some synergies to really want Stix, like Therapy or Tezzeret or like. The last Seize on board could be something else, probably Clique. I like it to be something against combo and Seize and Clique are most usable overall, but it might be something more specific. Two weeks to GP!

  11. #1931
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    I believe that your list is pretty good Nastaboi, I have little input to give. I do however, have an entirely different list to present! :) This is going to be one of my very long posts, so enjoy!

    First some thoughts (and this will sound pretty abrasive but I mostly present these lines of thought as a way to explore different ideologies for the BUG landstill archetype): I have since a long time felt that the old type of BUG Landstill deck has lost much of its appeal. Partly due to that people play too durdly lists, but also because the meta-game is much faster now and playing a lot of expensive sweepers and planeswalkers just isn't that appealing as it was way back when Maverick was DtB or during the DTT-era.

    I also feel that there has been a slight derailing in the use of standstill in our decks. People seem to have forgotten a bit what the card does well. Basically it comes down to three things:

    1. Standstill is (only) good when the board is neutral (because manlands) or when we are ahead.
    2. Standstill is good because it lets you play efficient cards that trades 1-for-1 and lets you pull ahead in CA (just like Ancestral Vision).
    3. Standstill is good along with counterspells/reactive cards (because you can draw into answers with their threats on the stack).

    Looking at the lists being posted here I see a heap of very expensive, slow cards that sort of makes me wonder what standstill even does in the deck. If your deck is full of expensive sweepers and removal you will never achieve a neutral board-state unless you actually resolve one of them. In other words, until you resolve your big things, Standstill is useless. And if you are in a position to start resolving deeds, lilianas, deluges and jaces, what exactly do you need standstill to do? You are most likely winning anyway. Those kind of decks should probably just pick up Shardless agent and visions as well and just drop the Standstills, even though the card is sweet as honey.

    So, with this being in my mind, I have attempted to construct a list that plays the most efficient 1-for-1 cards available, gets ahead on board easily and is mainly reactive. I have tested it to some degree (about 25-30 games, which ofc isn't enough) to say that it is really fun to play, and potentially quite strong/even vs most decks. It might suffer from the Stoneblade-disease (having no truly bad matchups but no good ones either), but I think it is better than that.

    The list (card choices are explained below):

    CREATURES (9)
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    1 Vendilion Clique

    ENCHANTMENTS (5)
    4 Standstill
    1 Sylvan Library

    SORCERIES (1)
    1 Life from the Loam

    INSTANTS (20)
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Abrupt Decay
    3 Disfigure
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    1 Counterspell

    PLANESWALKERS (2)
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    LANDS (23)
    4 Mishra’s Factory
    3 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Forest

    SIDEBOARD (15)
    2 Toxic Deluge
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Disfigure
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Wasteland
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Grafdigger’s Cage


    Some of the choices are fairly self-explanatory so I won't go into those, but quickly for the ones who are not:

    Main deck:

    1 Vendilion Clique - There as a disruptive creature/threat number 13. Very good against both control/combo and also allows for a lot of shenanigans with standstill (like EoT Clique, untap and slam standstill). Also very relevant vs Miracle.dec in general and Miracle cards specifically. Needs little explanation.

    1 Library - If you are playing legacy and playing 4 goyfs and 4 DRS and miracles is as common as it is, your list should always have a MD library. That has been my philosophy for a long time and still is. Very good interaction with standstill as well as you get to make land-drops more easily.

    1 Life from the Loam - The deck plays the full set of Mishras and 3+1 Wasteland, so MD loam is mandatory I think. Can also be used to get back some fetches which you can BS away for value.

    3 Disfigure - This card is what makes the deck work. Being able to trade 1 mana for their 1-drop is sooo crucial in a deck that wants to get a quick standstill out and those effective 1-for-1 trades are really key. Very good against most troublesome creatures and being able to maindeck 3 is what makes the deck able to not include expensive sweepers MD. I prefer these over Cut because not being able to kill Mom/Delver/DRS turn 1 is very bad. Prefer it over dismember because the life-loss matters when we play Sylvan MD and Deluge + Seizes post board. In the matchups where disfig is good you usually want the full 4 so there is one more in SB.

    2 Snare, 2 Pierce, 1 CS - This counter suite has been good for me. Snare is a very efficient 1-for-1 counter that also trades up in mana. Very good against Miracles, Storm and Shardless with Hymns/Strixes. Pierce is the worst card in the deck but a necessary evil game 1 against combo. Also being able to stop t1 Top/Vial is good. 1 CS because you need it against miracles. Would like a second CS, but Clique takes that slot for the time being.

    2 Jace - Because he is good, but not always great. Drawing multiples is very awkward. 2 is perfect for shardless and also in this deck.

    4 Factory / 0 Tar Pit - This deck wants to make land drops that allows early plays, and we just cant accept to be slowed down by our lands. Mishra's are also more mana-effecient and very good vs pyromancers/elves/D&T. Tar pit is only good in very slow decks, if at all.

    3 Wasteland - A necessary evil, but also good in conjunction with DRS + Goyf. Makes the deck have more punishing draws against decks that stumble on mana. The 4th is in the board for matchups where you really want 4 (Lands, Aggro Loam, Infect).

    9 Fetches / 4 Duals / 3 Basics - The fetchlands are customized to be able to find Volcanic island/Trop/Sea. The basics are another discussion - basically, blood moon is common in Stockholm and my EV with basics is higher than without. Meta dependant. 4 Duals is enough I feel after about 30 games.

    Sideboard:

    2 Toxic - Because sometimes it is very good (but not enough times for MD).

    2 Thoughtseize - I like reactive answers more, but you want a least 2 because it is very good to diversify your hate in legacy. Seize is also a very flexible card that is relevant vs Stoneforge, Miracles and combo.

    2 Surgical Extraction - These are meta dependant. Surgical is widest and is powerful against storm. Against other combo decks it's a bit meh as it's usually pretty dead before the first counter-war. Planning on changing these into 2 Leyline of the Void to further boost the deck vs Loam/PF decks.

    3 REBs - Now we are talking! The red splash is something I have become very addicted to in BUG during the last half-year or so. When you play DRS + 8 fetches that can find a Volc, splashing a 4th color vs decks without wasteland is very good (it is even good vs shardless as you also bring in crucible). REBs are there to deal with all the crap BUG doesn't like from other blue decks like Jace, Venser (popular in Stockholm), Misthollow Griffin and just general blue stuff.

    1 Volcanic Island - Replaces basic Island or Basic Forest vs decks where REB comes in. Also used as an extra land on the draw agianst delver and vs lands/D&T/Aggro Loam.

    1 Disfigure - Cuz maxing out on them is super good vs many decks (delver decks/D&T/Elves).

    1 Crucible - Comes in along the 4th wasteland vs decks where you want another loam effect but not a second loam. Gives you very good tools vs Lands/infect and even delver decks. Also great under standstill!

    1 Wasteland - See above

    1 Needle - It's just very good

    1 Cage - You need some kind of hate against elves/dredge/reanimator/PiF and this is the most versatile one.

    Honorable mentions that are omitted from the list:
    Hymn - because this isn't a tap-out deck that plays shardless agent, we already have 4 Standstill, 2 Jace, 1 Library and 1 Loam as CA.
    Strix - See above. We want to trade 1-for-1 efficiently. Also, strix is worse in the meta than before.
    Liliana - cus she is too slow/clunky and isn't good with counterspells. She belongs in shardless.
    Invasive Surgery - This is nice, but REBS are better I think.
    Deed - just too slow. Trading 1-for-1 and pulling ahead with standstill is enough.
    Golgari Charm - Deluge is better I feel.
    Null Rod - Disables mishra's factory :,( While that could be acceptable, a second needle is probably better.


    Phew, thanks for reading! Would be delighted if someone had use for the list. I am not going to any GP's, so will just leave this here if you want it. If you have any questions/comments let me know and I will answer as best I can. The deck is pretty difficult to play correctly, you have to be pretty aware of CA, using the correct answer for he correct threat etc. Also you have to be able to judge board-states in a good way. And, don't throw away your cards because you sequence badly - If people for example try to plow your Factory, make sure that they do so when there is a standstill in play. Be patient.

    Cheers! :)

  12. #1932
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    @LarsLeif, Holy &?%$! That list is awesome. This list is so low to the ground that you could deploy a Goyf on T2 after Wasting their land or it could go very long. I like that it is not mid-range but has this role flexibility. I've considered the R splash for bolt but REBs are even more interesting.

    Curious why you choose a Library rather than Top? Is it because of this ability to have fast hands and beat down in necessary match-ups? Or do you want to Needle Top Vs. Miracles?

  13. #1933
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    @LarsLeif, Holy &?%$! That list is awesome. This list is so low to the ground that you could deploy a Goyf on T2 after Wasting their land or it could go very long. I like that it is not mid-range but has this role flexibility. I've considered the R splash for bolt but REBs are even more interesting.

    Curious why you choose a Library rather than Top? Is it because of this ability to have fast hands and beat down in necessary match-ups? Or do you want to Needle Top Vs. Miracles?
    Yes, being to play efficient spells that doesn't lose power late game (except pierce :p ) is really appealing I feel. As you say, it really makes the deck feel extremely flexible, and you can go from controlling defense to a fast offense almost from one turn to the other.

    ---

    REBs are very good I feel, they compliment the counter-suite and discard nicely. To illustrate how the SB works here are some quick SB-plans:

    Vs ANT: -3 Goyf -4 Decay -3 Disfig -1 Forest -1 Island + 3 Reb +2 Seize +2 Surgical +2 Deluge +1 Waste +1 Volcanic +1 Cage

    Vs Infect: -4 Standstill -2 Jace -2 Snare -3 Basics +3 REB +2 Sezie +1 Deluge +1 Waste +1 Crucible +1 Volc +1 Disfig +1 Needle

    Vs Miracles: -3 Disfig -2 Pierce -1 Island -1 Loam +3 REB +1 Volcanic +2 Seize +1 Needle

    ---

    Library rather than top is because library draws a lot of cards vs decks that doesn't pressure your life-total. Versus StP-decks it even turns the life gained from plow (which would normally not be relevant) into actual card advantage. Getting a goyf plowed is suddenly a 2-for-1 in your favor, while you also get to "top" every turn. So library = Ancestral + Top, which makes it better than just top. You are also correct that we want to needle top vs them.

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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsLeif View Post
    Looking at the lists being posted here I see a heap of very expensive, slow cards that sort of makes me wonder what standstill even does in the deck. If your deck is full of expensive sweepers and removal you will never achieve a neutral board-state unless you actually resolve one of them. In other words, until you resolve your big things, Standstill is useless. And if you are in a position to start resolving deeds, lilianas, deluges and jaces, what exactly do you need standstill to do? You are most likely winning anyway. Those kind of decks should probably just pick up Shardless agent and visions as well and just drop the Standstills, even though the card is sweet as honey.
    You got me there. I have been long relying on my planeswalkers and not Standstill, and in present meta side them out rather often. Actually when I first built the deck, I had Visions in place of Standstills, but Standstill is just better card so they got the nod. I guess I have to admit that I'm just a sucker for card advantage.

    I like your approach, it reminds me of Next Level Blue, the old Tarmo-Go. I gave it a spin and had to mulligan many hands with not enough colored mana. You don't play any black double casters so you have considerably easier mana requirements than in my list, but almost 1/3 of your lands are colorless and you don't even have that much use on colorless mana. I like Tar Pit as it's a colored source for both blue and black, though ETB tapped is a real cost. I have one question though:

    2 Surgical Extraction - These are meta dependant. Surgical is widest and is powerful against storm. Against other combo decks it's a bit meh as it's usually pretty dead before the first counter-war.
    I find Surgical not that powerful against storm and feel it plays in the match up as you described for other combo decks. How do you use it to prevent them going off?

    Then I strongly disagree with your proposed SB plans. I have Goyfs on board first and foremost to bring in against decks like ANT. What you need in the matchup is a clock accompanied by disruption. Jace is not the wincon you want for this MU as you don't want to tap out for it while you could easily sneak in Goyf at any point. Standstill is only good in the MU if you already have Goyf in play, otherwise they can just sculpt perfect hand while taking 2 a turn and win through your three extra cards. REB and Cage are narrow but not totally dead. Decay is not good but not bad either, you can get their LED with careful timing and it hedges against Xantid Swarm and Confidant if somebody has these. Also, while Waste is good, Loam is not. Stone Rain is not what you want to be casting here.

    Against Infect I like Jace more than Goyf, as Goyf can't block most of their creatures. The matchup is grind and after much trading you have to pull ahead in cards some way, and you can't rely on Standstill for obvious reasons. REB is not great here either but significant upgrade to Snare as it kills Agent and can counter their cantrips and FOW. This is the matchup where Charm is better than Deluge and why I run one of both.

    Pierce was good against old Miracles list that had more Jaces and Entreat as main win con. It's worse now, but Seize is not that great either, so can't tell for sure which one is worse. The boarding plan for this match seems great otherwise, so it shouldn't make a big difference.

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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    I agree with Nastobi on the SB versus ANT. I'm not sure about the SB in general and might reconfigure but definitely would keep Tarmogoyf to apply pressure. This is a match where Top would be good rather than Library although I like the reasons for Library still.

    Edit: REBs are good to counter cantrips in this match-up as well.

  16. #1936
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    The deck definitely plays few colored sources. That is a weakness, but I feel that the low color-requirement of the deck makes it ok. I think that the EV becomes lower if we start cutting Waste/Factories for duals/fetches.

    I think that Surgical is ok against ANT. It protects agaisnt their fast PiF-kills, and can also be pretty great if we get to exile tutor etc. It's not super good, but better than Goyf/Decay for sure.

    Regarding goyf, I don't agree that is very needed. You can keep a couple in but drawing too many is very bad, especially on the draw. DRS + Mishra's kills pretty fast and it isn't trivial for them to sculpt a perfect hand without being able to cast cantrips. Decay is usually better to keep in if you suspect Swarm/carpet/Bob etc. Loam should definitely be cut, that was a mistake.

    I don't love Jace vs infect. I think that a common way for you to die is with too many expensive cards in hand. I also think that this is a matchup where goyf is fine, as having more blockers allows you to target their unblockable threats with your removal and ignore glistener. In this matchup I also think that goyf doubles nicely as a win-con. You can keep in 1 Jace, but 2 seems 1 too many.

    I think seize is slightly better than pierce vs miracles as they usually bring in creatures (cliques/mentors) and their own rebs.

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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    I tested Goyfs against Infect and they worked fine. Blocking was relevant and they helped closing the game after you stabilized and before Infect would draw another creature. But that made me realize another problem I also happen to have in some of my boarding plans: with just 20 or so blue spells MD, you can't board out more than four blue cards without greatly reducing effectiviness of FOW. So if I take both Standstill and Jace out, I have so few blue cards that I have to take Force out as well, and then I end up putting some Jaces back anyway. I tested Infect MU without Forces and it was okay anyway, but that realization made me reconsider some other boarding plans, like against Eldrazi where I used to keep Force in but didn't have enough pitch fodder. Next I have to tackle boarding plan vs. Elves, Standstill works here so I can keep Force if I want to, and Goyf works as a blocker but they can block it forever so racing with it is not likely.

  18. #1938
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    Are you referring to your list or mine now? :P

    Yes, going low on blue is kind of bad, but I still think I like doing it vs infect. Most games you never get to the point where you have to force anything (as you have too much blockers and removal for them to get a lethal attack through) and in the few games that you need to force, having around 14 cards is still usually enough to not die. At least, that is my experience of the matchup thus far.

    Eldrazi is more sketchy, but vs them I keep both Jace and Standstill and most counterspells, so the blue-count is usually fine.

    My board plan with my list vs elves is: -1 Loam -2 Basics -1 Jace/wasteland/pierce +2 Toxic +1 Disfig +1 Cage. Arguments could be made for bringing in Seize but I'm unsure if it's worth it. I guess Pierce is a possible cut for them but having fewer ways to answer an early Glimpse of the top is problematic.

  19. #1939

    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    @Larsleif @Nastaboi why you don't play snapcaster in your list? Do u think is not good enough?

    Actually I'm testing this:

    1x Creeping Tar Pit
    2x Mishra's Factory
    1x Bayou
    1x Forest
    1x Island
    4x Misty Rainforest
    4x Polluted Delta
    1x Swamp
    2x Mishra's Factory
    2x Tropical Island
    2x Underground Sea
    3x Wasteland

    4x Force of Will
    3x Abrupt Decay
    4x Brainstorm
    1x Counterspell
    2x Spell Pierce
    2x Spell Snare
    1x Darkblast
    2x Disfigure


    2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    2x Pernicious Deed
    4x Standstill
    1x Sylvan Library

    4x Tarmogoyf
    4x Deathrite Shaman
    2x Vendilion Clique


    Sideboard:

    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Life from the Loam
    2x Extirpate
    2x Flusterstorm
    2x Grafdigger's Cage
    2x Invasive Surgery
    1x Dismember
    2x Thoughtseize
    2x Toxic Deluge

  20. #1940
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    Re: [Deck] UBGx Landstill

    I was not referring to any list in partucular as they all play 20-21 blue cards MD and confront the same problem.

    I think Seize is good against Elves if you have room. Pierce is actively good against NO versions and probably worth it against Chaos Elves too as it still gets early Zeniths as well. Even if they can pay for Pierce it renders their Glimpse almost useless. Snare is bad though, it only hits Visonary, Zenith x=1 and possible Library. A land or two can be sided out but three feels too much.

    Snapcaster has low impact for its casting cost and is a bit unreliable against opposing Shamans. There is one thing I really like about it though: it lets you play more copies of powerful but narrow SB cards like Surgical or Blast. I have chosen to go for power instead of utility, but if you like it the other way around, Snappy could be the card for you.

    I think Surgical is better than Extirpate as zero mana is so much less than one. Also split second won't stop them getting Punishing Fire back if you want to exile them and they have Grove open. I also think that Murderous Cut is almost always better than Dismember, though there are situations where you'd rather have the latter.

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