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Thread: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

  1. #1
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    Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    What exactly happens when both cards are in play together aside from getting a permanent Armageddon?

    All creatures have now P/T equal to their CC, despite what their text (e.g. Goyf) says, right?

  2. #2
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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Pretty sure opalesence would overwrite creatures power and toughness just like humility would. Speaking of which why didn't you throw a humility in there and a second opalescence?

  3. #3

    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Rather than just guessing (please don't guess at rules answers), let's work through it.

    418.5a. The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in a series of layers in the following order: (1) copy effects (see rule 503, "Copying Objects"); (2) control-changing effects; (3) text-changing effects; (4) type-changing effects (which includes effects that change an object's card type, subtype, and/or supertype); (5) all other continuous effects, except those that change power and/or toughness; and (6) power- and/or toughness-changing effects. Inside each layer from 1 through 5, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first, then all other effects in timestamp order. Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order: (6a) effects from characteristic-defining abilities; (6b) all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e; (6c) changes from counters; (6d) effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value; and (6e) effects that switch a creature's power and toughness. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer or sublayer. See also the rules for timestamp order and dependency (rules 418.5b-418.5g).
    Enchanted Evening {3(w/u)(w/u)} |Enchantment| All permanents are enchantments in addition to their other types.
    Opalescence {2WW} |Enchantment| Each other non-Aura enchantment is a creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. It's still an enchantment.
    Enchanted Evening applies in Layer 4.
    Opalescence applies in layer 4 and its P/T setting ability applies in layer 6b.
    So which applies first, Enchanted Evening or Opalescence?

    Independent: An effect is said to "depend on" another if it is applied at the same time as the other effect, and applying the other would change the text or the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it applies to. Otherwise, the effect is considered to be independent of the first effect. See rule 418.5, "Interaction of Continuous Effects."
    So Opalescence depends on Enchanted Evening, and will apply second.

    So let's throw two creatures and an artifact into the mix for illustration: Tarmogoyf, Terrarion, and Arcbound Worker with one +1/+1 counter on it.

    Tarmogoyf {1G} |Creature -- Lhurgoyf| */1+*. Tarmogoyf's power is equal to the number of card types among cards in all graveyards and its toughness is equal to that number plus 1.
    Arcbound Worker {1} |Artifact Creature -- Construct| 0/0. Modular 1
    Terrarion {1} |Artifact| Terrarion comes into play tapped. / 2, T, Sacrifice Terrarion: Add two mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool. / When Terrarion is put into a graveyard from play, draw a card.
    Enchanted Evening applies in Layer 4
    Opalescence applies in Layer 4 and 6b
    Tarmogoyf applies in 6a
    Arcbound Worker's counter applies in 6c

    Tarmogoyf becomes an enchantment in Layer 4, and has its power set to */*+1 in layer 6a. Then it has its power and toughness set to 2/2 in 6b.
    Terrarion becomes an enchantment in Layer 4 and then becomes a creature, also in Layer 4. It has its power and toughness set in layer 6b to 1/1.
    Arcbound Worker becomes an enchantment in Layer 4, and has its power and toughness set to 1/1 in Layer 6b. Then the counter applies in Layer 6c and it is a 2/2 creature.

    Make sense?
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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Quote Originally Posted by Anusien View Post
    Rather than just guessing (please don't guess at rules answers), let's work through it.






    Enchanted Evening applies in Layer 4.
    Opalescence applies in layer 4 and its P/T setting ability applies in layer 6b.
    So which applies first, Enchanted Evening or Opalescence?


    So Opalescence depends on Enchanted Evening, and will apply second.

    So let's throw two creatures and an artifact into the mix for illustration: Tarmogoyf, Terrarion, and Arcbound Worker with one +1/+1 counter on it.





    Enchanted Evening applies in Layer 4
    Opalescence applies in Layer 4 and 6b
    Tarmogoyf applies in 6a
    Arcbound Worker's counter applies in 6c

    Tarmogoyf becomes an enchantment in Layer 4, and has its power set to */*+1 in layer 6a. Then it has its power and toughness set to 2/2 in 6b.
    Terrarion becomes an enchantment in Layer 4 and then becomes a creature, also in Layer 4. It has its power and toughness set in layer 6b to 1/1.
    Arcbound Worker becomes an enchantment in Layer 4, and has its power and toughness set to 1/1 in Layer 6b. Then the counter applies in Layer 6c and it is a 2/2 creature.

    Make sense?
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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacearuse View Post
    ?? If you tell me what's wrong, I could probably help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    Battle with a ragtag crew of adorable misfits. Narcomoeba and Golgari Thug hook up before the end of the movie.
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    Please be less rambling in your next post. I only bothered with figuring out what the fuck you were trying to ask because I took it as a challenge.

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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Ok, then how would it work in a situation like this: On your turn your opponent activates his Mishra's factory, you then drop Opalescence > Enchanted Evening > Humility.
    What is the power and toughness of the Mishra's factory?

  7. #7
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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    If the factory was activated first, a 1/1. If it was activated after this mess, a 2/2.
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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Quote Originally Posted by vanele View Post
    Ok, then how would it work in a situation like this: On your turn your opponent activates his Mishra's factory, you then drop Opalescence > Enchanted Evening > Humility.
    What is the power and toughness of the Mishra's factory?
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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    After, just for good measure.

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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Quote Originally Posted by Anusien View Post
    ?? If you tell me what's wrong, I could probably help.
    Nothing's wrong, wizards just went and printed another fun interaction with humility...
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingveno View Post
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    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacearuse View Post
    Nothing's wrong, wizards just went and printed another fun interaction with humility...
    and another way to make people cry at judge exams

  12. #12

    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Quote Originally Posted by Cait_Sith View Post
    If the factory was activated first, a 1/1. If it was activated after this mess, a 2/2.
    Actually, it will be a 1/1 no matter what. Enchanted Evening + Opalescence + Humility will make Mishra's Factory a 1/1 Enchantment Creature Land. It will remove the "animate this" ability from Mishra's Factory, so you cannot animate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    Battle with a ragtag crew of adorable misfits. Narcomoeba and Golgari Thug hook up before the end of the movie.
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    Please be less rambling in your next post. I only bothered with figuring out what the fuck you were trying to ask because I took it as a challenge.

  13. #13

    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Doesn't Enchanted Evening + Opalescence kill Mishra's Factory?

    If you apply Enchanted Evening in Layer 4 to make Factory a Land Enchantment and then apply Opalescence, isn't the Factory a 0/0 Enchantment Land Creature?

    FB...

  14. #14

    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Normally yes, but there's a hypothetical Humility in play in this situation.

  15. #15

    Re: Enchanted Evening + Opalescence

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur View Post
    Normally yes, but there's a hypothetical Humility in play in this situation.
    Not in the order he proposed. Opalescence into Enchanted Evening into Humility nukes all lands in play before Humility appears, so he'd have to be floating mana to drop it.

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