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Thread: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

  1. #1

    The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    This competition started in the "What is the best current combo deck?" thread. It's too determine which deck (TES or FT) has a better blue based aggro control and blue based control match-up. Myself and Emidln are going to play six rounds against each Tacosnape running U/b/g/w Landstill and Freakish777 playing UGwb Counterbalance Threshold.

    Rules:
    Everyone involved is to take notes and save game logs.
    If MWS Crashes restart that game.
    Keep track of results (2-1, 2-0, 1-2, ect. all 6 rounds.)
    Keep track of what each winning turn was.

    Decklists:

    The EPIC Storm (TES)
    Played by Bryant Cook

    Lands
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 City of Brass
    1 Undiscovered Paradise
    1 Tarnished Citadel

    Creatures
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    Spells
    4 Orim’s Chant
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Infernal Contract
    1 Diminishing Returns
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Empty the Warrens

    Sideboard:
    SB:1 Diminishing Returns
    SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    SB:1 Cleanfall
    SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
    SB:1 Empty the Warrens
    SB:1 Thoughtsieze
    SB:1 Pyroclasm
    SB:1 Shattering Spree
    SB:4 Vexing Shusher
    SB:3 Pyroblast

    Fetchland Tendrils (FT)
    Played by Emidln

    Lands
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Swamp
    1 Plains
    1 Island

    Spells
    1 Wipe Away
    1 Cruel Bargain
    4 Mystical Tutor
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Orim's Chant
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    1 Doomsday
    1 Extirpate

    Sideboard:
    SB: 1 Wipe Away
    SB: 2 Extirpate
    SB: 3 Krosan Grip
    SB: 1 Echoing Truth
    SB: 1 Rushing River
    SB: 4 Serenity
    SB: 2 Abeyance
    SB: 1 Sudden Death

    U/b/g/w Landstill
    Played by Tacosnape

    4 Tundra
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Tropical Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Flooded Strand
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Nantuko Monestary

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Standstill
    3 Jace Beleren
    1 Life From The Loam

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Pernicious Deed
    3 Diabolic Edict

    4 Force of Will
    4 Counterspell
    3 Stifle

    1 Crime // Punishment
    1 Extirpate

    Sideboard:
    SB: 4 Meddling Mage
    SB: 4 Blue Elemental Blast
    SB: 3 Extirpate
    SB: 2 Engineered Plague
    SB: 2 Krosan Grip

    UGwb Counterbalance Threshold
    Played by freakish777

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Tropical Island
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Tundra

    4 Force of Will
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Daze
    4 Thoughtseize

    3 Sensei's Diving Top
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Mystic Enforcer
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Pithing Needle

    Sideboard:
    SB: 4 Engineered Plague
    SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
    SB: 3 Krosan Grip
    SB: 2 Threads of Disloyalty

    Notes and Gamelogs:
    Last edited by Bardo; 05-11-2008 at 03:59 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Saved for results.

    TES Vs. UGwb Counterbalance Threshold

    Round One : 0-2
    Round Two: 1-2
    Round Three: 1-2
    Round Four: 2-0
    Round Five: 2-1
    Round Six: 1-2
    Last edited by Bryant Cook; 05-12-2008 at 12:54 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Folks, let's keep this thread on-topic and rubbish free. Grazi.

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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Notes and Gamelogs TBA?
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  5. #5

    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    ...Brain Freeze? May I ask why? Do you really expect to get that much storm, or is it ourely an anti-CB measure, or...?
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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    ...Brain Freeze? May I ask why? Do you really expect to get that much storm, or is it ourely an anti-CB measure, or...?
    That version of FT is using a doomsday stack. Getting an obscene storm count isn't exactly hard if he gets the combo off unhindered.
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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    ...Brain Freeze? May I ask why? Do you really expect to get that much storm, or is it ourely an anti-CB measure, or...?
    Meddling Mage, I think.
    SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
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  8. #8

    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    It's trivial to get to lethal storm count for Brain Freeze with Doomsday, IGG, and Sensei's Divining Tops in the deck (each can generate lethal storm on their own or in various combinations). This is a better win condition than ETW for near-petalless FT since it manages to avoid mass creature removal (EE/Deed/Clasm) that may be in/have come in while still getting around Mage (and actually Teeg as well).
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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Bryant and I are finished with our matches.

    I think that all game logs should be posted after all matches are completed. Once they are, I'll be letting Bryant and emidln post the game logs of our matches, and saying that they either match my own game logs, or don't match my game logs.

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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jak. View Post
    Those results aren't that bad at all, IMO. Going 2-4 against your worse MU is not that bad. Report!
    Is it the worst matchup? I was always under the impression Dragon Stompy or Stax (basically board based control) was worse, but that might have been before CounterTop. It would have been interesting to see one of those decks included.

    Anyway, I love this idea and we need more of it. Highly skilled players playing their decks and taking detailed notes is the type of thing I can eat up, especially when it is not just one on one).
    I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.

  11. #11

    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Warrens shines against those two decks. That's pretty much why I'm sure that TES is better than fetchland tendrils - no warrens vs. yes warrens.
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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by lonelybaritone View Post
    Warrens shines against those two decks. That's pretty much why I'm sure that TES is better than fetchland tendrils - no warrens vs. yes warrens.
    Against freakish777's Thresh, game 1 is a goblin freeway and only 2 EE makes it a bit worse for ETW post-SB, but not like they are easy to find that quick. Tacosnape's Landstill has 5 board sweepers that can clear ETW tokens on turn 3 (or 2, for Punishment). They are good against deck number zero one, but I don't believe so against deck number zero two.
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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jak. View Post
    Those results aren't that bad at all, IMO. Going 2-4 against your worse MU is not that bad. Report!
    It's actually 7-9 in games, so even closer -- though we don't know which were pre- and which post-sideboard.
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  14. #14

    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    ETW and the Prison match up isn't all that relevant, you either go straight for your Tendrils or you SB in Shattering Spree and just clear their board and win at your convenience.

    ETW is really more for running over Counterbalance decks game 1, they usually don't have mass removal or Stifle in any significant quantity.
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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by BreathWeapon View Post
    ETW and the Prison match up isn't all that relevant, you either go straight for your Tendrils or you SB in Shattering Spree and just clear their board and win at your convenience.
    And for Fetchland Tendrils no matchup is relevant, you either clear their board full of permanent hate with Serenity, Wipe Away, Rebuild, Rushing River end of turn and/or you go off with double Chant protection (which you are able to tutor for) and win at your convenience. In fact, for Fetchland Tendrils Chalice-based decks are a bye and Threshold/Landstill should be a ~60%-70%-matchup if you pilot your deck correctly.

    ...

    (wasn't this exactly the way of arguing one should avoid when talking about combo decks?)

    (also note that Bryant's list plays exactly one Shattering Spree. I know you play 4, but still)


    EDIT: wtf @ deleted posts? wasn't the sarcasm obvious?
    Last edited by Brehn; 05-14-2008 at 11:19 AM.
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  16. #16

    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Brehn View Post
    And for Fetchland Tendrils no matchup is relevant, you either clear their board full of permanent hate with Serenity, Wipe Away, Rebuild, Rushing River end of turn and/or you go off with double Chant protection (which you are able to tutor for) and win at your convenience. In fact, for Fetchland Tendrils Chalice-based decks are a bye and Threshold/Landstill should be a ~60%-70%-matchup if you pilot your deck correctly.

    ...

    (wasn't this exactly the way of arguing one should avoid when talking about combo decks?)

    (also note that Bryant's list plays exactly one Shattering Spree. I know you play 4, but still)


    EDIT: wtf @ deleted posts? wasn't the sarcasm obvious?
    I didn't mean TES vs Stax is an irrelevant match up, I meant using ETW vs Stax isn't relevant because the match up comes down to racing the first lock piece with Tendrils of Agony or resolving a Shattering Spree. Stax has too much removal for ETW to be effective, so if you're relying on Tokens to win the match up, you're probably fucked.

    Storm vs Prison is just a stupid match up, it always results in one deck completely blowing the other deck out of the water. I didn't mean to imply I've never been locked out of the game, I have and it sucks, hence 4 Shattering Spree; I wouldn't run 4 Shattering Spree if I didn't respect Prison's win % against combo any way.

    So in short, ETW is bad against prison, Shattering Spree is good against prison.
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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by dlevsApiJ View Post
    Because this topis is about "What is the best current combo deck?".. I really hope you guys test more matchups.. Not only against Blue Based (I'm thinking of decks like Staxx, Discard, Fast Combo, etc..).

    Jip
    If you read either thread, you'd know that we're determining which deck has a better blue based control/aggro control match-up.

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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Can we get the results? I don't mean to spam, but this would end a lot of debate.

  19. #19

    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jak. View Post
    Can we get the results? I don't mean to spam, but this would end a lot of debate.
    Freakish and Emildn started, I haven't been able to get ahold of Tacosnape.

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    Re: The EPIC Storm (TES) Vs. Fetchland Tendrils (FT) - The Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Jak
    Those results aren't that bad at all, IMO. Going 2-4 against your worse MU is not that bad. Report!
    It's not bad for a combo deck, but considering that you're going 2-4 against a deck that makes up a big share of the metagame (especially when adding other blue-based decks that run CBalance + Top, Force, Stifle and additional disruption, like Dreadstill, UWb Fish, Merfolk or CTop MUC into the equation), it seems to be not enough to get up to Tier 1 status.

    And is there any chance for there being a competition against Stax/Stompy builds, or do you guys (emidln + Bryant) have better things to do in the next weeks ? Because I find those things very interesting...
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