[Deck] Sneak and Show

[Noloam_]

That's a cool list, very different from how I'd build it but I can respect the "turbo" SnS aspect of it. Just wondering, why Echoing Truth over Wipe Away? I've always found being able to bounce a Karakas to be worth the extra blue.

I believe it is too expensive in the light of thalia / thorn of amethyst (vs lands). It also curves better with show and tell

i have to admit that the echoing truth is the only card, on which i am not sure yet.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Is a Pithing Needle a better fit for the slot?

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[Ephemeron]

Needle is certainly a playable card, but at least for me personally, I'd be extremely uncomfortable playing a 75 that didn't have any outs to Ensnaring Bridge right now with the amount of Red Stompy these days.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Needle is certainly a playable card, but at least for me personally, I'd be extremely uncomfortable playing a 75 that didn't have any outs to Ensnaring Bridge right now with the amount of Red Stompy these days.

Sure, I haven't noticed that trend, that is reasonable.

I dislike Through the Breach, and while I play one in my board, it's never been good for me. Maybe I don't play it correctly or something. That's where I play a needle, and the boseiju slot I play a grafdigger's cage. I play 2 echoing truth.

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[korstructure]

JPA - could you tell us more about your Eureka Tell list?

Is this a meta call or do you think Eureka Tell might be superior to OmniSneak and Sneak and Show?

When do we want Eureka over Sneak and where do you see the future of this deck?

Thanks in advance!

https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2017-10-02

[JackaBo]

JPA - could you tell us more about your Eureka Tell list?

Is this a meta call or do you think Eureka Tell might be superior to OmniSneak and Sneak and Show?

When do we want Eureka over Sneak and where do you see the future of this deck?

Thanks in advance!

https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2017-10-02

I'm also intrigued. Eureka working as SnT 5-8 is a DREAM for Omniscience builds where i think Sneak attack is way too anti-synergistic. My biggest concern have been the double green in the casting cost.

[Binkle]

So I'm a fairly new convert to S&S (specifically OmniSneak, though like others I found the wishes subpar and intend to move on to "traditional" soon).

I've only got ~25 games under my belt, and for ~22 of those they've been post-board in matchups where I *think* I'm supposed to want blood moon (pile and lands). Are you all 100% sold on blood moon? I obviously like it against lands (though the new interaction with Depths is awk), but against 4c it just feels like a speed bump that maybe buys some time, or it just gets countered and they untap and hymn me or something. It certainly doesn't stop them from casting force or REB, and deathrite/basics unlock the rest of their protection. Is blood moon actually worth it in that matchup, or is it a trap?

[Chatto]

If Blood Moon sticks, it's usually game over. Defend it with counters just long enough to land your combo. Or counter my Blood Moon, I'll play my combo :-) So yeah, it's worth it.

[Ephemeron]

So I'm a fairly new convert to S&S (specifically OmniSneak, though like others I found the wishes subpar and intend to move on to "traditional" soon).

I've only got ~25 games under my belt, and for ~22 of those they've been post-board in matchups where I *think* I'm supposed to want blood moon (pile and lands). Are you all 100% sold on blood moon? I obviously like it against lands (though the new interaction with Depths is awk), but against 4c it just feels like a speed bump that maybe buys some time, or it just gets countered and they untap and hymn me or something. It certainly doesn't stop them from casting force or REB, and deathrite/basics unlock the rest of their protection. Is blood moon actually worth it in that matchup, or is it a trap?

Blood Moon is, as they say, the mutt's nuts. It is very good against Czech Pile because their mana base is so horrendous that it's basically a must counter. Even if they have a Deathrite and fetch for an Island, you're still basically limiting them to one spell per turn, and DRS will eventually run out of lands to eat. In my experience it almost always eats a counterspell, but that's good because that makes it easier to resolve the spell that will actually kill them.

[Don D]

Played some games with the Eureka'n'Tell list and really like it. Eureka being a sorcery makes boseiju main a fantastic weapon against all the blue decks running around. I never liked omniscience main in the red version of the deck, but with Eureka they work great; they are actually the only way the green version can beat karakas. The double green CC can be a bit annoying against wasteland decks, but is manageable. I will play some more games with the green version before settling on the secondary color.

[RStien321]

Blood Moon is, as they say, the mutt's nuts. It is very good against Czech Pile because their mana base is so horrendous that it's basically a must counter. Even if they have a Deathrite and fetch for an Island, you're still basically limiting them to one spell per turn, and DRS will eventually run out of lands to eat. In my experience it almost always eats a counterspell, but that's good because that makes it easier to resolve the spell that will actually kill them.

I agree with everyone that a resolved Blood Moon is great and everything, with one stipulation that is important to remember. Blood Moon in hand does not make an opening hand a snap keep. You still need Blood Moon with counter backup, or Blood Moon with some cantrips to find more action. The number of times I've played Delver and countered a turn one Blood Moon only to watch my opponent do nothing the rest of the game is VERY high. Also, Blood Moon on the draw is worse than the play - a DRS against 4 Color or a Delver deck, or a resolved Delver can simply win the game on their own.

Summary - Blood Moon = Great. BUT Don't keep a hand just because it has Blood Moon.

[Binkle]

I agree with everyone that a resolved Blood Moon is great and everything, with one stipulation that is important to remember. Blood Moon in hand does not make an opening hand a snap keep. You still need Blood Moon with counter backup, or Blood Moon with some cantrips to find more action. The number of times I've played Delver and countered a turn one Blood Moon only to watch my opponent do nothing the rest of the game is VERY high. Also, Blood Moon on the draw is worse than the play - a DRS against 4 Color or a Delver deck, or a resolved Delver can simply win the game on their own.

Summary - Blood Moon = Great. BUT Don't keep a hand just because it has Blood Moon.

Fair enough!

Follow-up question: in a lot of lists I see 4 Leyline. I would imagine a deck with discard and edicts is where we want this, yes? In that case, are we seriously bringing in 6-7 enchantments that don't combo them? I guess I have no idea how many leylines one is supposed to bring in against fair decks.

[Don D]

Played some games with the Eureka'n'Tell list and really like it. Eureka being a sorcery makes boseiju main a fantastic weapon against all the blue decks running around. I never liked omniscience main in the red version of the deck, but with Eureka they work great; they are actually the only way the green version can beat karakas. The double green CC can be a bit annoying against wasteland decks, but is manageable. I will play some more games with the green version before settling on the secondary color.

Anybody else some testing results/experiences with the eureka version?

[JackaBo]

Is this totally crazy?

Deck: EurekaShow.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:6
3 Griselbrand
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:36
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
4 Living Wish
4 Show and Tell
4 Eureka
4 Force of Will
4 Omniscience

Lands:18
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island

Sideboard:15
1 Elvish Piper
1 Sparkcaster
1 Griselbrand
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Teferi's Realm
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Nephalia Academy
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Some explanations: Living wish can be used as a way to fight counters, discard and to some extent hatebears through the land package. It can fetch piper if you have no enabler. With enabler in hand but no fatty it fetches Gris. With Omniscience in play it fetches gris to draw into Emrakul or to just win with sparkcaster.
Post board versus faster combo you got fluster and surgical.
Post board versus (fair) blue decks you have carpets to ramp into the fatties.
Tereferi's realm comes in versus hatebears.

Thoughts and comments?


Created with Decked Builder
http://www.deckedbuilder.com/

[Binkle]

Is this totally crazy?

Deck: EurekaShow.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:6
3 Griselbrand
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:36
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
4 Living Wish
4 Show and Tell
4 Eureka
4 Force of Will
4 Omniscience

Lands:18
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island

Sideboard:15
1 Elvish Piper
1 Sparkcaster
1 Griselbrand
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Teferi's Realm
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Nephalia Academy
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Some explanations: Living wish can be used as a way to fight counters, discard and to some extent hatebears through the land package. It can fetch piper if you have no enabler. With enabler in hand but no fatty it fetches Gris. With Omniscience in play it fetches gris to draw into Emrakul or to just win with sparkcaster.
Post board versus faster combo you got fluster and surgical.
Post board versus (fair) blue decks you have carpets to ramp into the fatties.
Tereferi's realm comes in versus hatebears.

Thoughts and comments?


Created with Decked Builder
http://www.deckedbuilder.com/

Is the one mana saved on Living Wish really enough to make you prefer it over the Cunning Wish package with Release the Ants kill? Sparkcaster IS hilarious, though.

[Don D]

JPA - could you tell us more about your Eureka Tell list?

Is this a meta call or do you think Eureka Tell might be superior to OmniSneak and Sneak and Show?

When do we want Eureka over Sneak and where do you see the future of this deck?

Thanks in advance!

https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2017-10-02

@JPA: some comments from you on the eureka list would be realy appreciated :-)

[Don D]

Is this totally crazy?

Deck: EurekaShow.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:6
3 Griselbrand
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:36
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
4 Living Wish
4 Show and Tell
4 Eureka
4 Force of Will
4 Omniscience

Lands:18
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island

Sideboard:15
1 Elvish Piper
1 Sparkcaster
1 Griselbrand
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Teferi's Realm
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Nephalia Academy
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Some explanations: Living wish can be used as a way to fight counters, discard and to some extent hatebears through the land package. It can fetch piper if you have no enabler. With enabler in hand but no fatty it fetches Gris. With Omniscience in play it fetches gris to draw into Emrakul or to just win with sparkcaster.
Post board versus faster combo you got fluster and surgical.
Post board versus (fair) blue decks you have carpets to ramp into the fatties.
Tereferi's realm comes in versus hatebears.

Thoughts and comments?


Created with Decked Builder
http://www.deckedbuilder.com/

Living wish is cool! But how does it compare to intuition? I think intuition is still the better card bc it can also grab omniscience; thus every piece of the puzzle and not only some.

EDIT: it also grabed FOW occasionally to protect the combo. Intuition > living wish

[JPA]

@JPA: some comments from you on the eureka list would be realy appreciated :-)

I started tuning EurekaTell for the pre-Top-ban meta. After Top got banned I discarded it due to rather unfavorable, more discard-heavy strategies gaining popularity. Eureka itself is much worse against discard than Sneak Attack because you can't just jam it anytime and draw a creature later.
The double green mana cost can be annoying, although Sneak Attack also often "costs" you .
The huge upside of Eureka over Sneak Attack is its synergy with Omniscience and Boseiju. I'm pretty sure Eureka is better than Sneak Attack if you want to play 3+ Omniscience in your deck.

Anyway, I'm not sure EurekaTell discussion belongs in the Sneak & Show thread (although the strategies are very similar).

[Don D]

I started tuning EurekaTell for the pre-Top-ban meta. After Top got banned I discarded it due to rather unfavorable, more discard-heavy strategies gaining popularity. Eureka itself is much worse against discard than Sneak Attack because you can't just jam it anytime and draw a creature later.
The double green mana cost can be annoying, although Sneak Attack also often "costs" you .
The huge upside of Eureka over Sneak Attack is its synergy with Omniscience and Boseiju. I'm pretty sure Eureka is better than Sneak Attack if you want to play 3+ Omniscience in your deck.

Anyway, I'm not sure EurekaTell discussion belongs in the Sneak & Show thread (although the strategies are very similar).

Thx for your reply. Completely agreeing on your analysis. I think the decks are close enough to be discussed together (like 4 spells and 4 duals off each other).

Counter meta -> Eureka tell with omniscience and boseiju
Discard meta -> classic Sneak'n'show
Omniscience + Sneak -> unsynergistic

Is the actual meta really that much more hostile to eureka? Probably yes! Grixis delver (aggro deck #1), Grixis/4c control (control deck #1) and storm (combo deck #1) are all running medium to heavy discard packages.

I realy like how the eureka list plays out. I have to go back to SnS to compare how it performs in the current meta.

EDIT: And the meta composition described above makes leyline of sanctity a cler 4 of in the SB IMO.

EDIT2: After playing more game sessions I agree that Sneak attack is better positioned in the actual meta than eureka. THX JPA

EDIT3: Really missing Boseiju in SnS.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Is Abrade a playable card in this deck? I don't mean is it castable, I mean is it worth playing in my sideboard. I like that it can kill Leo in one shot, but still have added utility. However, in the opening post of this thread, it says that we are less affected by Chalice. I don't know in what comparison that is true, as I've been feeling very roughed up by it. It stops me from actively assembling the combo, and that feels relevant (obv). Does it stop me from casting the combo? No. Does it often make it impossible to assemble a combo to cast it? Yes.

I guess I'd like discussion on what an ideal sideboard looks like if there were a GP for Legacy tomorrow. There is a lot I am unsure of when it comes to this deck, as I don't play it often and don't have the knowledge to make the correct estimation of a card based on the strategy.

The emphasis is probably on Grixis Delver and DnT. Those seem to be the worst matchups. I guess I'd also be interested in BR Reanimator and the mirror. Elves seems to get hit by splash damage on a couple of these fronts (Cage for graveyard strategy, board wipe/Lavamancers). Does elves get hurt badly enough by Blood Moon turning off their Cradles that it's worth bringing in or is it just not a worthwhile strategy?

I appreciate the help.