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Thread: [Deck] Grixis Tempo

  1. #1401

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by AdventuresWithTarmo View Post
    Top 4'Ed Eternal weekend, Bob's list is the truth
    What did you play against during EW?

  2. #1402
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Greetings,

    I judged over the weekend at EW and got to check out a lot of cool takes on Grixis Delver. Notably, I got to be the camera/stream judge for the Vintage Top 8 and the quarterfinals of the Legacy Top 8. I ended up settling on playing Brian Coval's Top 8 list (taking the liberty to run a 2-2-2-2 fetchland split and modified the sideboard for my metagame) as it was reasonably similar to what I had been running prior to EW. Check his list and the other Top 8 lists here:

    http://www.cardtitan.com/coverage2

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Young Pyromancer
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Tombstalker
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Electrickery
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Diabolic Edict
    1 Kolaghan's Command

    Round 1: Stasis [2-0] - My deck played better cards. I FoW Stasis in G1 and kill him. G2 he Boomerangs a couple of my creatures to buy time, a Young Pyromancer follows up and gets him.

    Round 2: BUG Foodchain [2-1] - He manages to get the combo off in G1. G2 I kill most of his threats and keep Food Chain off the table. G3 we both start on a Deathrite. Opponent kills mine. I Pithing Needle Deathrite and double Wasteland him on turn 3. He stumbles on mana for a few turns while, I get an army of elementals and take his hand apart with Cabal Therapy

    Round 3: RG Lands [0-2] - Opponent has the natural combo in opener both games... didn't get sideboard cards in G2.

    Round 4: RG Lands [2-1] - Opponent has the combo in opener. G2 and G3 I manage to Pithing Needle Thespian's Stage to slow the opponent down. I am able to get there using True-Name Nemesis in G2 and then a Young Pyromancer does the trick in G3.

    The deck feels very good. I think that it is just a matter of tuning the sideboard for what you expect to be playing against. I have my board tuned to help mainly fight fair and lands match up. It seems to be working reasonably well. Thanks for reading!

  3. #1403

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    I hope you didn't sideboard pithing needle for food chain but for walking ballista

  4. #1404
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa91 View Post
    I hope you didn't sideboard pithing needle for food chain but for walking ballista
    LOL. As both a seasoned legacy player and level two judge, I am well aware of the limitations of Pithing Needle. I have played this opponent a number of times in the past and know that his list only uses Walking Ballista as the mana sink and win con for the combo. Knowing this, naming Walking Ballista shuts off the instant kill, forcing him to attack. With a Pyromancer or TNN, Ballista can be blocked for a good while. This play also serves as decent protection for our threats from an early Ballista with 1-2 counters.

    However, the way the game developed, I noticed my opponent missed his third land drop after spending his third turn to Ponder, shuffle, and then Decay my Shaman. So my turn three was to play a second Wasteland, Pithing Needle Shaman, and then double Wasteland him off of lands. So he was left with no lands and a needled DRS to my USea and more lands in hand. I was able to follow up with a Pyromancer and Probe. I was able to Therapy him the following turn for 2 FoWs and 2 Ballistas. He missed on lands for a few turns and I had stripped four cards from his hand while making dudes. By the time he found lands he was too far behind.

  5. #1405

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Has Stifle fallen out of favor in the deck? I’m going to give it a try for the first time this weekend.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch253 View Post
    Has Stifle fallen out of favor in the deck? I’m going to give it a try for the first time this weekend. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Of the 5 delver variants that made the Top 8 of EW, only the RUG Delver list ran Stifle. The winning deck was a BUG Delver list with more of a control slant. The three Grixis delver lists all varied in their spell flex slots... these slots included 1 Forked Bolt and 2 Spell Pierce in Bob Huang and Luke Blum's lists and 2 Cabal Therapy in Brian Coval's list. So running Stifle certainly gives the deck a useful tool and angle of attack; however, it would appear that a number of highly skilled Grixis Delver players all unanimously decided that Stifle was not where they wanted to be. Just my thoughts on the matter.

  7. #1407

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Sorry for the "spamish" post but some knows the exact list of Dylan Donagan? i know he wrote on article on it on SCG but, on stream he has a Lili last Hope in the Maindeck and the commentators said there are 3 Pierces in the deck, what did he cut for that?

  8. #1408

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Dylan Donegan doesn't play Pyromancer (you see that in his sb he doesn't play therapy but thoughtseize). That means he also doesn't have probe. He played more Anglers, Thought Scours and at least 2 Stifles. Not sure where they say he has Spell Pierces, I find it hard to believe he would find room for 3 in his maindeck.

  9. #1409

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    has there a been a good sideboard strategy against Czech Pile posted?

  10. #1410

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by scapiander View Post
    has there a been a good sideboard strategy against Czech Pile posted?
    Yes. Side out your Fows and Probes, bring in additional burn, blast effects, and Flusterstorms. Try to always have an answer for a t1 Deathrite Shaman and play the denial/tempo game. The stifle list is obviously best equipped for that, but I guess Huang's also has game with the additional Pierce and YP. If they do manage to develop their mana, remember that TNN, Angler, and a swarm of elemental tokens are all somewhat problematic for them to answer, so you can sometimes ride one of your more resilient threats + burn spells to victory even against significant card disadvantage. This match up feels even to and slightly favorable with a Stifle build, but I suppose it can be rough for lists that don't attack one of the deck's softest spots (the manabase) as heavily. Alternatively, since most Czech Pile lists are currently playing a very low number of Abrupt Decay in their 75, you could try attacking them with sideboard enchantments that exploit their deck's other major weakness: their slow and unimpressive clock. Bitterblossom and Sulfuric Vortex come to mind.

  11. #1411

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Czech Pile is a close match-up. I would never side out Probe, except maybe vs Chalice/Burn decks. The card is fundamentally broken and helps you navigate games.

    My sb plan is -4 FOW +1 Staticaster +1 Price +2 Pyroblast

    Depending on what I see I may bring in Abrade or Edict for some Daze/Pierce

    Also, pretty stoked to have top 8ed a bunch of events with this deck. Yesterday was great as I had one friend in the Top 8 and two friends in the Top 32 all using my list.

  12. #1412

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Bob are you willing to share some more SB-plans for the common MatchUps? would be really appreciated :)
    by the way congrats on your success recently :)

  13. #1413

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    I was wondering the same thing about the pile MU.

    I side out 4 force and 2 probes for 2 fluster, 1 lavamancer, 1 dismember, and 2 pyroblast.

    But I hear what you're saying about probe. Its just nice having the fluster for the long game against sweepers and other removal. Any recommendations? Like maybe just not bringing in the dismember at all? Only 1 fluster?

  14. #1414
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Griselpuff View Post
    Czech Pile is a close match-up. I would never side out Probe, except maybe vs Chalice/Burn decks. The card is fundamentally broken and helps you navigate games.

    My sb plan is -4 FOW +1 Staticaster +1 Price +2 Pyroblast

    Depending on what I see I may bring in Abrade or Edict for some Daze/Pierce

    Also, pretty stoked to have top 8ed a bunch of events with this deck. Yesterday was great as I had one friend in the Top 8 and two friends in the Top 32 all using my list.
    Hey Bob can you commentate on your lack of stifles in your list? I know that you have been a big fan of that card in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  15. #1415

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Played the deck for the first time last night...went 0-4! Still had fun though.

    Round 1: Nic Fit. He just shredded my hand and I couldn't counter all his threats or kill him quickly enough. Game 1 he actually killed my with Scapeshift but my hand was empty so I couldn't stop it
    In: 1x Price of Progress, 2x Diabolic Edict but never saw them and he beat me down with a Primeval Titan.

    Round 2: Eldrazi, all big stuff though- Ulamog, Endbringer, Thran Dynamo etc. Again once my hand was empty from stopping Chalices and Trinispheres he just slammed monstrous threats on the table.
    In: 1x Price of Progress, 2x Ancient Grudge, 2x Diabolic Edict. Saw a few SB cards but couldn't stop all his top decked threats.

    Round 3: UWr Helm. He actually told me after the match that he built the deck specifically to beat Grixis Delver sooooooo yeah.
    In: 2x Pyroblast, 1x Pithing Needle. Pyroblast is my only answer to his Energy Field and I just could not find them in my post board games.

    Round 4: Stoneblade. This was my only "real" match that I felt I got to play Magic. All the games were long and grindy, just how I like them.
    In: 2x Pyroblast, 1x Pithing Needle, 1x Izzet Static Caster, 2x Ancient Grudge.

    A lot of the games I was siding out Daze even though I was on the play, I'm sure that probably wasn't correct but I felt like the SB cards I was bringing in were so much higher impact. This is my first time playing a Delver deck so I know I have lots of room for improvement. Any tips or constructive criticism would be great!

    Here's the 75 that I played (Mr. Huang's list):
    Land:
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    Creatures:
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Gurmag Angler
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Young Pyromancer

    Instants and Sorceries:
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    1 Forked Bolt
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Ponder
    2 Spell Pierce

    Sideboard:
    2 Ancient Grudge
    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Diabolic Edict
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Izzet Staticaster
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Price of Progress
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction

  16. #1416
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Hey, y’all. I’ve been testing some Grixis lists sans Pyromancer and was hoping for feedback. My main question concerns Stifle in the current meta. I’ve been very streaky with the card. Sometimes it enables free wins, but it’s often tough to take people off of mana with all the Deathrites running around. But since I’m testing lists without Pyromancer, perhaps I need to be more tempo-oriented and include it in lieu of a proper 2-drop. I’d love feedback on my current list, which is kind of a mix between Ben Friedman’s old 4C list from over a year ago and Dylan Donegan’s latest idea:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Gurmag Angler

    1 Liliana, the Last Hope

    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Dismember

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Stifle
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    3 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Wasteland

    // sideboard //

    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Duress
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Abrade
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Marsh Casualties
    1 Arc Trail
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    The idea is to have both the tempo/mana denial plan and the ability to grind with threats and flashbacked removal. Lili has been terrific, buying back Snapcasters and my other threats. Snap + Stifle has done some work, too. I’d love to find room for a Spell Snare because that card seems powerful right now, but I’m not sure what the cut is. The Snapcasters open up the “burn ‘em out” plan, which has definitely won me games. The sideboard needs refinement, of course. I’m testing a bunch of things, hence the multitude of singletons. All that said, four 3-drops maindeck (and a fifth in the board) might be sketchy for a Delver deck. I’d love some input on a list like this. Over the past couple weeks, it’s done some nice things, but the sample size is small.

    Regarding some quirky card choices: the 2/1 TS/Duress split is because I virtually never bring in more than two Thoughtseizes in fair matchups, so Duress is a card that doesn’t lose me life against Storm or Burn. Arc Trail is sort of a pet card, but it’s done zany things like kill Deathrite + Strix, Delver + Pyromancer, Thalia + Mirran Crusader, etc. There’s a good chance that it’s an incorrect choice, but I’ve liked its ability to kill 2-toughness dudes.

    If I were to cut Stifles and play a more grindy version, what do you think of a maindeck of -3 Stifle/+1 Spell Snare, +1 Abrade, +1 Preordain? That would free up a sideboard slot, too.

    I’m open to any and all criticism. Thanks a lot!

  17. #1417

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch253 View Post
    Played the deck for the first time last night...went 0-4! Still had fun though.

    Round 1: Nic Fit. He just shredded my hand and I couldn't counter all his threats or kill him quickly enough. Game 1 he actually killed my with Scapeshift but my hand was empty so I couldn't stop it
    In: 1x Price of Progress, 2x Diabolic Edict but never saw them and he beat me down with a Primeval Titan.

    Round 2: Eldrazi, all big stuff though- Ulamog, Endbringer, Thran Dynamo etc. Again once my hand was empty from stopping Chalices and Trinispheres he just slammed monstrous threats on the table.
    In: 1x Price of Progress, 2x Ancient Grudge, 2x Diabolic Edict. Saw a few SB cards but couldn't stop all his top decked threats.

    Round 3: UWr Helm. He actually told me after the match that he built the deck specifically to beat Grixis Delver sooooooo yeah.
    In: 2x Pyroblast, 1x Pithing Needle. Pyroblast is my only answer to his Energy Field and I just could not find them in my post board games.

    Round 4: Stoneblade. This was my only "real" match that I felt I got to play Magic. All the games were long and grindy, just how I like them.
    In: 2x Pyroblast, 1x Pithing Needle, 1x Izzet Static Caster, 2x Ancient Grudge.

    A lot of the games I was siding out Daze even though I was on the play, I'm sure that probably wasn't correct but I felt like the SB cards I was bringing in were so much higher impact. This is my first time playing a Delver deck so I know I have lots of room for improvement. Any tips or constructive criticism would be great!

    Here's the 75 that I played (Mr. Huang's list):
    Land:
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    Creatures:
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Gurmag Angler
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    3 Young Pyromancer

    Instants and Sorceries:
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    1 Forked Bolt
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Ponder
    2 Spell Pierce

    Sideboard:
    2 Ancient Grudge
    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Diabolic Edict
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Izzet Staticaster
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Price of Progress
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    Is this thing on?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #1418
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch253 View Post
    Is this thing on?
    Did you have any questions or anything to discuss? Your report can be summed up as "I played bad matchups and lost with a stock list."

    If you want advice, play Tombstalkers over Anglers.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  19. #1419

    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Did you have any questions or anything to discuss? Your report can be summed up as "I played bad matchups and lost with a stock list."

    If you want advice, play Tombstalkers over Anglers.
    When I said "any tips or constructive criticism would be great!" I figured that implied I was looking for advice ;) I was just hoping for some insight on how to better play the match ups. I mean if they're just terrible matchups I can live with that. But if there is something I could focus on to improve them that would be sweet too.

  20. #1420
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    Re: [DTB] Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    If you want advice, play Tombstalkers over Anglers.
    I'd love to take a look at your current list -- or at least, a list that you'd play at a large event (80+ players).

    I'll be attending one of these big tournaments soon, and am always looking for inspiration.
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