So where is this deck? (Natural Order)

[quicksilver]

Sorry, let me restate. I would rather play 1 Tinker than 4 Natural Order IN LEGACY. I think people are overstating how easy it is to build a deck that runs, what? 12+ green creatures that aren't terrible and somehow win, especially if the opponent has Tendrils of Agony or Force of Will in his deck.

I would rather run natural order because I would get disqualified for running tinker. Also take a look at the list Obfuscate freely top 2 split with this past weekend, it's in the top 8 thread.

[matelml]

Why not Polymorph instead of Natural Order? At least it's blue.

[Zach Tartell]

Why not Polymorph instead of Natural Order? At least it's blue.

Polymorph doesn't let you sacrifice a Mishra's Factory (or, rather, you can, but you'd come up with like a Polluted Delta).

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I'm pretty sure that Polymorph on Mishra's Factory will result in a creature in your deck.

[puppektion]

Polymorph doesn't let you sacrifice a Mishra's Factory (or, rather, you can, but you'd come up with like a Polluted Delta).

Umm... until you reveal a creature...

Is polluted delta a creature?

[Zach Tartell]

Polymorph is WAY different from what I was thinking.

Screw sorceries. If you're playing blue go big or go home (or, in lieu of that, play Polymorph).

[Nihil Credo]

And for extra fail, Natural Order doesn't let you sacrifice a Factory.

[Zach Tartell]

Amature. Champs will note that the savage Darkest Hour + Glamerdye FTW (Yes, I'm going to make you look that up).

OH SNAP! Check this: Glamerdye can be used mulitiple times after your opponent Grips your Darkest Hour.

[Mordel]

Seeing as the debate has sort of shifted, I'll come out and say that natural order is extremely easy to slip into already established decks with survival or even just green dudes.

I've already seen an Survival Elves combo list with the PO+P combo tucked into the sideboard and it completely took me by surprise. I've also seen it squeezed into a BG rock deck(minus survival) and a gbw survival rock deck that I thought was pretty bad, but yeah.

Right now I am trying to see if there is a way to squeeze it in to my own GBW RockSur deck without ruining it. Either way, debating power across formats and other kind of silly debates aside, the combo is fairly compact and that sort of scares me as far as me needing to basically needing to make sure every deck I play has a method in the sideboard of getting it off the table.

COP is a good call though.

[Finn]

OK so seriously if the required Kevin bashing is out of the way, what are the best solutions if this thing is any good?

Frankly, I can't think of anything in the main of any of my decks that is at all effective. In Merfolk, we are talking Curfew and Hibernation a bit. But that is unlikely to be worth it. He basically dodges everthing.

COP works, but it would be dedicated hate for an unproven deck. Yuck.

[Phoenix Ignition]

OK so seriously if the required Kevin bashing is out of the way, what are the best solutions if this thing is any good?

Frankly, I can't think of anything in the main of any of my decks that is at all effective. In Merfolk, we are talking Curfew and Hibernation a bit. But that is unlikely to be worth it. He basically dodges everthing.

COP works, but it would be dedicated hate for an unproven deck. Yuck.

Meekstone > Relic if this becomes a problem. What a terrible scenario to think about though...

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Meekstone, Rune, Edict, Damnation, Moat. Granted, Blue, Red and Green have a bit of a problem.

Being worse than Tinker, much less Flash, doesnt mean a card is bad. And heck, you could throw one or two other situationally powerful cards (Empyrial Archangel and Symbiotic Wurm spring to mind) if you expect answers or need to stabilize fast.

I just don't think saying it's broken or will run over Chicago is a fair analysis. I don't think it's particularly more powerful than, say, Animate Dead on Sundering Titan.

[TheAardvark]

Being worse than Tinker, much less Flash, doesnt mean a card is bad. And heck, you could throw one or two other situationally powerful cards (Empyrial Archangel and Symbiotic Wurm spring to mind) if you expect answers or need to stabilize fast.

Or even Hellkite Overlord...

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I dunno where that's better than Progenitus. Archangel would be good if you need to stabilize or if you need to get around Moat, whereas you want Wurm if you expect Wrath or Edict. Alternately, there's that big Persist Creeping Mold guy from Shadowmoor I'm too lazy to look up.

Yeah. So Woodfall Primus and Empyrial Archangel. Both of which are pretty big by themselves, and one of whom even pitches to FoW.

[AngryTroll]

Runed Halo is probably the best one. It alone works against Tendrils, Progenitus, Dreadnought, Goyfs, Tombstalkers, Mishra's Factories, Mongeese, Seismic Assault, Terravores, Countryside Crushers, Raven's Crime, all that stuff. Double White is a bummer, but man, that card is a beating.


So yeah, run some Runes.

[bowvamp]

This has gotten me thinking back to pattern of rebirth. Hows about this:
4 Goyf
4 Natural Order
4 Pattern
4 Birds
4 Neo-Birds girl (you guys know what that thingy's called)
4 Wild Cantor
4 Sakura Tribe-Elder
3 Rofellos
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Progenitus
23 Lands

This is just to start with, but it's pretty fun in my test sessions!

[dahcmai]

Kind of makes me glad I traded for some Natural Orders before this hysteria. I was going to use them for a fun deck. Heh.


Anyway, I'm glad I happen to play a control deck that packs Moat, Wrath, Counterbalance, and COP's.

[Aleksandr]

Kind of makes me glad I traded for some Natural Orders before this hysteria. I was going to use them for a fun deck. Heh.


Anyway, I'm glad I happen to play a control deck that packs Moat, Wrath, Counterbalance, and COP's.

<Palyer> lol noob read pr0ngenius
<Palyer> it iz writen on da cart, sucker
<Palyer> protection form everythin, u cant kill him with wrath
<you> Wrath neither enchants, targets or deals damage to Progenitus. Destroy it, please.
<you> And behave like mature, please.
<Palyer> waht u talking bout idiot?
<Palyer> pro: everything
<Palyer> rtfc
<you> Wrath destroys it. Moreover it cannot fly over Moat.
<Palyer> omg you are retadr
<Palyer> READ THE FUCKING CARD!!!
Palyer puts a colorless Noob token into play
Noob is now 0/1
you is now controler of Noob
<Palyer> learn rules
<Palyer> bye idiot
<system> Player Lost

[whienot]

For those that did not see this:

DATE: Feb 15, 2009
LOCATION: Dream Wizards, Rockville, MD
PLAYERS: 39

1st: Alex Hatfield - Progenitus Threshold (split)

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Wearbear
3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Krosan Grip
3 Submerge
3 Back to Basics
1 Empyrial Archangel

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Pro Tip: Progenitus lets you Counterbalance Greater Gargadon. Tech!

In all seriousness, I feel like any deck with Progenitus needs a way to get it out of the hand because if you draw it all of a sudden you have 3-4 dead cards in deck. Outside of Brainstorm, how do you get rid of Prog once you draw him?

Also serious, the fact that Moat, Wrath and Apocalypse can now be balanced is not cool.