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Thread: [Deck] Dredge

  1. #801
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Tireless Tribe is the best card in the deck.

    Bloodghast can't beat a Kird Ape.
    When in doubt, mumble.

    When in trouble, delegate.

  2. #802

    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    I've tried playing a few brews without Tribes and with Bloodghasts + Ichorids similar to the above list. At least when I was experimenting, since the deck was very lacking in discard outlets (Cabal Therapy is poor, and you often want to use Careful Study to dredge), I tried choosing to draw some games with the plan of discarding at the end of turn as my main discard outlet. It worked okay and I found myself mulling to 6 a lot less, but when I did have to mull it was that much worse because I was that much further from hitting 8 cards in hand to discard. That and the additional difficulty of casting Ancient Grudge/Nature's Claim off of only 8 sources of green made me drop the list. You really only want to extra graveyard dudes post sideboard anyway when you're forced to dredge slowly.

  3. #803
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    Tireless Tribe is the best card in the deck.

    Bloodghast can't beat a Kird Ape.

    I agree completely. I originally couldn't find room for four Tribes with the 15 lands and Careful Studies being untouchable. But they were just so good in testing, that I found the extra two slots buy cutting a dredger and an Ichorid. The Tribes are better anyway.

    I found Bloodghast not too bad when run along with Realm Razer.
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  4. #804
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    If you are playing without LED and with 15 lands, 4 Tirbes are perfect.
    This card stops aggro in a brilliant way. It is the best one drop agains Goblins and in the LEDless version way more
    better than the Imp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
    Quote Originally Posted by THerzog41 View Post
    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
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  5. #805
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by maxflow2 View Post
    I've tried playing a few brews without Tribes and with Bloodghasts + Ichorids similar to the above list. At least when I was experimenting, since the deck was very lacking in discard outlets (Cabal Therapy is poor, and you often want to use Careful Study to dredge), I tried choosing to draw some games with the plan of discarding at the end of turn as my main discard outlet. It worked okay and I found myself mulling to 6 a lot less, but when I did have to mull it was that much worse because I was that much further from hitting 8 cards in hand to discard. That and the additional difficulty of casting Ancient Grudge/Nature's Claim off of only 8 sources of green made me drop the list. You really only want to extra graveyard dudes post sideboard anyway when you're forced to dredge slowly.
    I also choose to draw all the time even if I win the die roll and just use the clean up step to discard my dredger so that I won't have to look for PImp in my opening 7. I just look for land, gas, dredger in my opener and DDD for one or two turns before casting my draw spell to dredge and win. I also hate it when they kill your PImp and can't continue dredging on the next few turns coz you have 4-5 cards in your hand (that is, if you don't dump all of it in response to killing PImp - but that's even worse in most cases). And choosing to go 2nd gives you an idea of what deck they're playing based on how they play their first turn so you can adjust accordingly (with the exception of combo decks of course).

  6. #806

    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by SHABOOGS View Post
    I also choose to draw all the time even if I win the die roll and just use the clean up step to discard my dredger so that I won't have to look for PImp in my opening 7. I just look for land, gas, dredger in my opener and DDD for one or two turns before casting my draw spell to dredge and win. I also hate it when they kill your PImp and can't continue dredging on the next few turns coz you have 4-5 cards in your hand (that is, if you don't dump all of it in response to killing PImp - but that's even worse in most cases). And choosing to go 2nd gives you an idea of what deck they're playing based on how they play their first turn so you can adjust accordingly (with the exception of combo decks of course).
    Against blue decks, that try to counter your discard outlets this is the only right way to go. But that strategy shouldn't always be applied. Against decks without counters you'll rather have a turn 1 Tribe/Imp. This allows Coliseum activations on turn 2, playing around daze turn 2, Breakthrough x=1 on turn 2 and other things. Most importantly it allows you to drop your entire hand at any time you want. With the DDD startegy your whole hand is pretty dead, which is not nice with Dread Return, Bridge or Ichorid in your hand. Also, PImp can swing for 2 with evasion while Tribe blocks everything away. Apart from that they are C.Therapy/Dread Return food.
    The chance that your opponent removes your Imp/Tribe and you don't hit any Dredgers in the subsequent Dredges is pretty low, it practically never happens. Actually the chance that your opponent uses a discard Spell like Duress or Thoughtseize in order to rip your Draw spell, while simultaneously preventing your next End Step discard is higher.

  7. #807

    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    Against blue decks, that try to counter your discard outlets this is the only right way to go. But that strategy shouldn't always be applied. Against decks without counters you'll rather have a turn 1 Tribe/Imp. This allows Coliseum activations on turn 2, playing around daze turn 2, Breakthrough x=1 on turn 2 and other things. Most importantly it allows you to drop your entire hand at any time you want. With the DDD startegy your whole hand is pretty dead, which is not nice with Dread Return, Bridge or Ichorid in your hand. Also, PImp can swing for 2 with evasion while Tribe blocks everything away. Apart from that they are C.Therapy/Dread Return food.
    The chance that your opponent removes your Imp/Tribe and you don't hit any Dredgers in the subsequent Dredges is pretty low, it practically never happens. Actually the chance that your opponent uses a discard Spell like Duress or Thoughtseize in order to rip your Draw spell, while simultaneously preventing your next End Step discard is higher.
    Exactly.

    There's no reason why you should be going for the DDD plan against non-blue decks. Against blue decks it's worth it to trade speed for the uncounterable dredger-discard. Against other decks you should be going out there and smashing their face.

    It's also worth mentioning that your strategy wont work all the time. If you decide to draw and they go turn 1 Relic, they'll just use the tap ability and make you cry.

  8. #808
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    True, Bloodghast's landfall is enormous with Paradise and Salvage. Maybe you didn't read my post? That's just the point; Paradise and especially Darkmoor Salvage are just crap. And Bloodghast needs them in order to work...
    Ok, it will I do receive not agree on this point.

    And wath you do after three PtE, StP, Relic or Tormod's when you have two or three Icho, FKZ or Iona removed? You loose!

  9. #809
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    You smash face with the Zombie tokens you already should have if you're a decent player.

    Seriously, stop it.
    The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.

  10. #810
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by Bozon View Post
    Ok, it will I do receive not agree on this point.

    And wath you do after three PtE, StP, Relic or Tormod's when you have two or three Icho, FKZ or Iona removed? You loose!
    Battle with a ragtag crew of adorable misfits. Narcomoeba and Golgari Thug hook up before the end of the movie.
    When in doubt, mumble.

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  11. #811
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    Bloodghast can't beat a Kird Ape.
    Precisely with BfB and U Paradis this is combo. Bloodgast vs Kird Ape make one or too 2/2. Before the next Landfall.

  12. #812
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Bloodghast can't block.
    The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.

  13. #813
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    Battle with a ragtag crew of adorable misfits. Narcomoeba and Golgari Thug hook up before the end of the movie.
    But not before the PImp carts Narcomoeba around town.
    It was an abusive relationship, I recall.
    Bashing in with a 2/2 flyer sometimes takes it all.

  14. #814
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    The chance that your opponent removes your Imp/Tribe and you don't hit any Dredgers in the subsequent Dredges is pretty low, it practically never happens.
    This isn't entirely true in my case. One dredger in the yard with no discard outlet and praying to hit another dredger in your draw step does happen but I'd rather have a permanent discard outlet (clean up step) and one dredger to consistently dredge every turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    Actually the chance that your opponent uses a discard Spell like Duress or Thoughtseize in order to rip your Draw spell, while simultaneously preventing your next End Step discard is higher.
    Again, this isn't true in my case since I don't see a lot of black in the meta these days.

    It's not that I don't want to play PImp. I just want to make sure that I don't throw away my only discard outlet when I play him so I try to figure out what my opponent is playing and see if he/she has some sort of removal or counter magic by going second. I'm just saying that dredge can live with an opening 7 that doesn't have PImp/Tribe.

    It's also worth mentioning that your strategy wont work all the time. If you decide to draw and they go turn 1 Relic, they'll just use the tap ability and make you cry.
    I usually respond with land, nature's claim in this scenario.

  15. #815

    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    Battle with a ragtag crew of adorable misfits. Narcomoeba and Golgari Thug hook up before the end of the movie.
    This amused me. Probably because I've won far too many games against opponents who mulliganed aggressively for Leyline this way.

  16. #816

    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by SHABOOGS View Post
    One dredger in the yard with no discard outlet and praying to hit another dredger in your draw step does happen but I'd rather have a permanent discard outlet (clean up step) and one dredger to consistently dredge every turn.

    It's not that I don't want to play PImp. I just want to make sure that I don't throw away my only discard outlet when I play him so I try to figure out what my opponent is playing and see if he/she has some sort of removal or counter magic by going second. I'm just saying that dredge can live with an opening 7 that doesn't have PImp/Tribe.

    I usually respond with land, nature's claim in this scenario.
    Okay, I see what you mean. Of course I don't know your metagame. So if there are a lot of blue FoW decks it is probably okay to simply choose to draw in order to scout for blue decks and evade counters on your discard outlets. Also, the absence of black Discard spells is good news for DDDing.
    Still I think that against decks of which you know that they don't have FoW/Daze, you should always cast your PImps, Tribes and Studies turn 1. It is right that there might occur a situation in which your opponent removes your outlet and you have do bin your hand but don't find any other Dredger. That's unlucky, but extremely rare. Actually I've rarely seen my opponent cast their Swords tPl or Path to Exile at my discard outlet. You should try to imagine their position: I could remove that Imp now but he'll drop his whole hand in response anyway and how high are my chances that he doesn't find (or already has) another Dredger. I better keep my Swords for an Ichorid, Grave-Troll, FKZ, Iona or whatever... And that's exactly what happens most of the time, at least from my expierience.
    I see that the DDD strategy is quite reliable but the tempo loss is not worth it against non-blue decks.

    But you're definitely right that Dredge can live with an opening 7 that doesn't have a discard outlet.

  17. #817
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    A friend using Ichorid won a big tourney last weekend. 114 players competed for a Mox Jet and he came out on top. I dropped out from the top 16 when I lost the last round to Zoo. Here are the photos of the event (with top 8 decklists): http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...12843112063473

  18. #818
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Hey guys I am going to a different area to play magic this week, but there's 1 match up I wanted to inquire about, as I am very unfamiliar with the match up. In case I fight against a Vengevine survival deck, can anyone let me know what to expect? Is this a match that I need a very aggressive hand? Or can is this something I can slow play as well? What usual hate should I expect? Thanks, I haven't fought the deck before so I am unfamiliar with it, but from what I've been hearing/reading it seems to be popular, so I wanted to be prepared and have an idea what to expect.

    By the way, I play Non-LED dredge, with 15 lands, 11 dredgers, and 1 MD reanimation target.
    Always looking for more people to play in the Chicago area. Anyone interested send me a PM.

  19. #819
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    I think you would expect to see faerie macabre after board. Once they have survival online, you've lost. They can recur macabre if they run emrakul SB as well, giving them unlimited gravehate once they get going. I would prefer to go off fast and not slowroll.

    @ Shaboogs, wow thats a huge turnout! You guys must have a huge legacy scene! I actually have a friend in KL who is from the the Philippines and I play legacy with him (Owen). If only we can fly there to play. Maybe during the next GP Side event!

  20. #820
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    Re: [DTB] Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by ivanpei View Post
    I think you would expect to see faerie macabre after board. Once they have survival online, you've lost. They can recur macabre if they run emrakul SB as well, giving them unlimited gravehate once they get going. I would prefer to go off fast and not slowroll.

    @ Shaboogs, wow thats a huge turnout! You guys must have a huge legacy scene! I actually have a friend in KL who is from the the Philippines and I play legacy with him (Owen). If only we can fly there to play. Maybe during the next GP Side event!
    This was the 2nd largest turnout here in the Philippines this year (1st was the legacy side event at GP Manila with 127 players). It was nice to see Dredge winning such a big tournament here. Owen? Is he also known as owenz in the web? We know each other if he's the same guy.

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