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Thread: faithless welder MUD

  1. #21
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    Re: faithless welder MUD

    To me, it seems like this deck suffers from a lot of collateral graveyard hate. It should be more resiliant and versatile than reanimator, but when everyone is packing 4+ slots for graveyard hate including surgical extraction, it's hard for this deck to shine.

    I've been thinking about playing a shell that consists of these cards for a long time:
    stoneforge mystic
    goblin welder
    imperial recruiter

    Mystic with batterskull is good at stabilizing on its own, and you can also search for lightning greaves for the welder. Shroud is clearly good, but so is haste. You can start using the welder immediately. You can also move it over to whichever creatures you weld back, so you won't need to use anger or dragon breath.

    The mystic also simply gives you card advantage, and finds an artifact to start the welding process. Worst-case scenario, you can just attack with your small utility creatures wearing equipment.

    The recruiter might not be that great in this deck, but in addition to mystic and welder, it can search for duplicant, phyrexian metamorph, phyrexian devourer, triskelion, and metalworker to name a few. After you have it in your hand, you could discard it to faithless looting, although this is obviously much slower than using intuition or entomb. Perhaps it would be better to just splash into a third color.

  2. #22
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    Re: faithless welder MUD

    I wrote a mini-primer on MTG Salvation about Welder MUD feat. FLooting. I have been great success with it within the local meta and on Cockatrice.

    Here's what I posted there:

    -----------------

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Wasteland
    2x Ghost Quarter
    2x Great Furnace
    2x Mountain

    4x Goblin Welder
    4x Lodestone Golem
    4x Metalworker
    3x Kuldotha Forgemaster
    3x Wurmcoil Engine
    2x Phyrexian Metamorph
    1x Sundering Titan

    4x Grim Monolith
    4x Lotus Petal
    3x Sensei's Divining Top
    2x Lightning Greaves
    2x Mox Opal
    1x Spine of Ish Sah

    3x Faithless Looting

    3x "slots"

    Mana Base:

    Ancient Tomb + City of Traitors = They're needed to easily cast all the expensive robots the deck utilizes as early as possible.

    Wasteland = Utility land that gets rid of your opponent's utility land. It also helps mana screw your opponent. The colorless mana shouldn't be an issue with this deck.

    Mountain + Great Furnace = The deck somehow needs red mana to support both Goblin Welder and Faithless Looting. I used to run a 1-3 split but I wanted my red mana source to be as much Null Rod proof as possible without compromising the utility of having artifact lands. Also getting Sundering Titan on the field with the miser Mountain already on the field sucks when you need to flashback Faithless Looting in the near future.

    Ghost Quarter = As I have explained from my previous post, not only it supports Wasteland in getting rid of your opponent's utility land (from Maze of Ith to Tower of Magistrate to name a few problem ones), it can also act as a pseudo-Fetchland to get that Mountain (which also has that nice synergy with Sensei's Divining Top if you really need to shuffle your library)

    Mox Opal + Lotus Petal = Another means of red mana source. Also, Lotus Petal can help enable some powerful turn one plays (such as a turn one Lodestone Golem or having shenanigans with Goblin Welder + Faithless Looting right away). Lotus Petal used to be Mox Diamond but throughout my testing, Mox Diamond wasn't really helping the deck when it comes to powerful early turn plays as you need lands along with it. In a deck that runs minimal lands, it is rare to get Mox Diamond going as you want it to. It actually becomes a Mox Opal with a drawback (in this deck, Mox Opal's drawback in rarely an issue). Also, with an active Goblin Welder on the field, you can play tricks with your artifacts because of Lotus Petal being in the graveyard. Goblin Welder essentially gains "tap, sacrifice an artifact: add any color of mana to your mana pool" whereas you'd need to discard a land if you want to Weld in a Mox Diamond back onto the field.

    Grim Monolith = Mana artifact that helps you cast mana entensive robots with ease. I used to run Grim Monolith with Voltaic Key but throughout my testing, Key has been dead for the most part when you don't have Grim Monolith. Instead, Goblin Welder plays the roll of Voltaic Key (in junction with Lotus Petal being in the graveyard).

    Metalworker = There's a reason why sometimes, this deck is called Metalworker. An unmolested Metalworker can win you games. There's a reason why this card used to be banned.

    Robots:

    Lodestone Golem = I notice a lot of you have been cutting this robot to three. I think it is wrong as it can set an opponent a turn behind. This robot can be devastating to your opponents if you can get it on the field on turn one (which is not impossible with this deck)

    Kuldotha Forgemaster = I have actually cut this to three because the deck can still function without it's aid. While it helps Forging in a Sundering Titan, I find that for the most part I would only activate it if I really need to (such as turning late game Grim Monoliths and Metalworkers into Wurmcoil Engines). Also, I find that the current list has a better means of card selection.

    Wurmcoil Engine = I also have cut this to three but because of space issue. It's actually not an issue of searching for it as I find that my current list has a better means of card selection. You might argue why I run a 4-3 Split between Lodestone Golem and Wurmcoil Engine. The reason why I do this is because its easier to cast a Lodestone Golem if you cannot get a Metalworker or your Welder-tricks going. Also, you'd rarely Forge in Lodestone Golem over Wurmcoil Engine.

    Phyrexian Metamorph = I love this robot. It can be a Goblin Welder protection (copying Welder and have multiple Welder effects on the field to perform tricks), a Snapcaster for "comes into play" robots or just Lodestone Golem 5-6. Sometimes, the two life is worth for what utility it can do. Worse case scenario, its a Goyf wall against an opposing Goyf or a Legendary killer

    Sundering Titan = While the hardest robot to hardcast, once it enters the field, it can win you games. It is my favourite Forgemaster target so far.

    Spine of Ish Sah = While not really a robot, this acts as a targeted removal for problem permanents. Not a bad Forgemaster target.

    Lightning Greaves = It protects utility creatures and gives haste to beaters. I used to run three but having multiples of it sucks. A turn one Greaves followed by an unanswered turn two Metalworker can win you games 95% of the time.

    Sensei's Diving Top = Card selection and with this list, it actually works since I have multiple shuffle effects (from Ghost Quarter to Forgemaster). Faithless Looting also helps SDT if the top three cards that you have are actually bad, a luxury the deck didn't have before.

    Engine:

    Goblin Welder + Faithless Looting = With Faithless Looting, Goblin Welder can actually fall under Metalworker's class: a threat when it becomes active. Before Faithless Looting, Goblin Welder can only act as a means to protect your artifact. Now with Faithless Looting, you actually gain the luxury of using Welder as a means to cheat expensive artifacts onto the field. This actually relieves pressure from Metalworker. Faithless Looting also has that synergy with SDT as it "refreshes" the top three cards of your library for SDT. Goblin Welder also helps turning the deck into Null Rod proof (though the card can still get annoying if you can't get Welder going)

    Slots:

    I am currently running Tangle Wire on this slot. Throughout my testing, Tangle Wire has been acting as a Time Walk and with Welder tricks, you can actually create a softlock with it against your opponent. I am not going to say that this should be Tangle Wire as it is still a meta-choice. Sometimes, Trinisphere can be better on this slot if there's a lot of combo or tempo in your meta. If you want to get fancy, you can run more Forgemaster targets (though you'd need a fourth Forgemaster). You can even use utility in that spot using Staff of Domination or Crucible of Worlds. If you're really afraid of your pieces, you can use Spellskite on that spot. Personally, I am happy with Tangle Wire on that slot and it does what I want it to do.

    Sideboard:

    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Thorn of Amethyst/Trinisphere
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Ratchet Bomb

    Chalice of the Void and Thorn of Amethyst/Trinisphere = The standard against most combo decks. Usually I would side in the Welder package (Welder+Faithless Looting and sometimes SDT) for this package (along with another appropriate hate card from the side board). I find that against Ritual/Storm-based combo decks, the Welder package doesn't really help and the most ideal way to play the deck would be use your early turns for Sphere effects then hardcasting your robot beaters once you've established that lock (going Stompy mode)

    Tormod's Crypt = Of all the gravehate, I find this to be the most suiting without actually hindering the deck's game plan.

    Phyrexian Revoker = This comes in against ritual based combo to utility permanents. It can stop anything from Lion's Eye Diamond to Qasali Pridemage.

    Ratchet Bomb = Believe it or not, if the deck is on Welder mode, CotV at one can actually get annoying. Ratchet Bomb makes sure that CotV at one doesn't hinder you (I've had this against Aggro-Loam and Stompy decks). Also, Ratchet Bomb is very effective against decks that utilizes tokens and decks that use permanents that have a low mana curve


    ------------------


    I'm actually working on a MUD primer as the opening post on the Meandeck MUD doesn't really help.

    Hopefully that helped.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  3. #23
    Taobotmox

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    Re: faithless welder MUD

    Nice primer and deck should be Established soon. You should PM a mod for it. Edit: You should mention other possibler choices, too, not only those of your current list.


    For the list: imo there is no way that Ghost Quarter over Mountain/Great Furnace is correct.

  4. #24
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    Re: faithless welder MUD

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    Nice primer and deck should be Established soon. You should PM a mod for it.


    For the list: imo there is no way that Ghost Quarter over Mountain/Great Furnace is correct.
    Thanks. I'm trying to finish a more in-depth one.

    Here's my other post on MTG Sally concerning that utility land slot:

    -----------

    I've tested all these lands (and Mishra's Factory) as my utility lands and heres what I've concluded:

    -Crystal Vein: it's good to have extra Sol-lands for mana acceleration but I think having eight is good enough. alex holland is right when it comes to using utility lands instead.

    -Barbarian Ring: it's great removing weenie/utility creatures early game but realistically speaking, can you really get seven cards in your graveyard in the early game? If you really want to run it, use it in junction with Crucible of Worlds. That card is good too with Wasteland.

    -Buried Ruin: you already have Welder. He's good at what he does. Also, without an active artifact mana-source, Ruin can't really pull off what he does.

    -Mishra's Factory: if you're down a beater, it's a great alternative but for the most part in my testing, I've rarely used it as a beater. Not a bad choice but personally I found better options.

    -Rishadan Port: for the longest time, I was running this I junction with Wasteland to deny my opponent's the land base of mana and utility once I have my robots going. It's a good way to protect them (I got the tech from Vial Goblins). Then someone suggested this card from here (unfortunately I can't find who but it was an awesome suggestion and thank you for that):

    -Ghost Quarter: this card solved a lot of problems I had with the deck. I needed the following in my land base: a means to deny my opponent to use his/her land base for both mana and utility. While Wasteland can do that just fine but sometimes, it needs a backup. That why for the longest time, I've been using Ports. But that didn't solve my other land base problem, which is a reliable means to get red mana sources for Welder (and Faithless Looting, which I run). Though Quarters do not produce red mana, it can be activated to (let say in response to a triggered City of Traitors) to grab a Mountain. Also, if you're desperate to get Welder on the field and you don't have a red mana source, it can do that for you.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  5. #25
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    Re: faithless welder MUD

    Sneak Attack could be really busted with Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere and obviously Welder to bring them back afterwards. Between Grim Monolith to hardcast them, Looting and Welder to recur them and Sneak Attack to cheat them into play, that appears to be a sufficient number of ways to drop some big monsters.
    Team R&D

  6. #26
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    Re: faithless welder MUD

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    Sneak Attack could be really busted with Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere and obviously Welder to bring them back afterwards. Between Grim Monolith to hardcast them, Looting and Welder to recur them and Sneak Attack to cheat them into play, that appears to be a sufficient number of ways to drop some big monsters.
    How would this then be better than a usual Sneak Show?

    I mean Wurmcoil << Emrakul and they still have Counters, Accel is identical...

  7. #27
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    Re: faithless welder MUD

    The main advantage that comes to my mind is that you can still cast wurmcoil engine even if you don't draw sneak attack. Sneaking in welders isn't all that bad either. I'm not necessarily convinced that it's worth it to run sneak attack though.

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